lexiconkabir:
bro i said statement made by jesus, you are quoting john for me.

I dont knw between you and Dr naik zakir who is a better liar. See what is in John 3:1-20. Read and stop lying to yourself, ok!

John 3:1, Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.

2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]” 4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’

8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you
cannot tell where it comes from or where
it is going. So it is with everyone born of
the Spirit.”[d]

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have
seen, but still you people do not accept
our testimony.

12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how
then will you believe if I speak of
heavenly things?

13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came
from heaven—the Son of Man.[e]

14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the
wilderness, so the Son of Man must be
lifted up,[f]

15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.

”[g] 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever
believes in him shall not perish but have
eternal life.

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,
but to save the world through him.

18 Whoever believes in him is not
condemned, but whoever does not believe
stands condemned already because they
have not believed in the name of God’s
one and only Son.

19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people
loved darkness instead of light because
their deeds were evil.

20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not
come into the light for fear that their
deeds will be exposed.

21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so
that it may be seen plainly that what they
have done has been done in the sight of
God.

Jesus was having a discussion with Nicodemus, a pharisee. Dont allow mohammed keep deceiving you.

@true2god very funny, you are again quoting john, cuz that discussion was narrated by john. isn't it funny that the bible was written over 300years after the departure of jesus? paul from nowhere who never saw jesus started writing the gospel.

lexiconkabir:
@true2god very funny, you are again quoting john, cuz that discussion was narrated by john. isn't it funny that the bible was written over 300years after the departure of jesus? paul from nowhere who never saw jesus started writing the gospel.

Islamic liar, so if I write a biography of Obasanjo and I quoted his statements 'verbatically', it wasnt obasanjo that made that the statement I quoted but me. Can you see how you reason, from the anus? When was the quran compiled, when mohammed was alive or when he was long gone?

allahh knew that John wrote part of the injil which he asked you muslims to consult for direction, so alllahh is now deceiving you? Ok na.

lexiconkabir:
that site is making me understand that the laws are still intact right? if i didnt comprehend with the information on that site please let me know.

the scribes duties are to copies and NOT interpreter. The context was talking about false teacher and prophet, this concept was made known through out the scripture. To understand this verse you will have to read verse 8 and 9 together:

“‘How can you say, “We are wise, for
we have the law of the Lord,” when
actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely? 9 The wise will
be put to shame; they will be
dismayed and trapped. SINCE THEY
HAVE REJECTED THE WORD OF THE LORD ,
WHAT KIND OF WISDOM DO THE HAVE?

The " THEY" where the one saying "we are wise" and they are the one who reject the word of God. Notice these same people are being said to have rejected the word of the Lord.

This is very common throughout the OT those who are claiming to speak for God
but are not. Malachi calls them out,
Amos calls them out, and Jeremiah calls
them out. It was a recurring theme.
Note that scribes are not just writers of
the law - they are teachers too. Especially at this time, there was a hefty oral tradition of interpretation that had
added much to the Torah.

In the New Testament, Jesus makes the
same charge (Matthew 23):

13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law
and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You
shut the door of the kingdom of
heaven in people’s faces. You
yourselves do not enter, nor will you
let those enter who are trying to. [14]
[b]15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law
and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You
travel over land and sea to win a
single convert, and when you have
succeeded, you make them twice as
much a child of hell as you are.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You
say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple,
it means nothing; but anyone who
swears by the gold of the temple is
bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind
fools! Which is greater: the gold, or
the temple that makes the gold
sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone
swears by the altar, it means nothing;
but anyone who swears by the gift on
the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19
You blind men! Which is greater: the
gift, or the altar that makes the gift
sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who
swears by the altar swears by it and
by everything on it. 21 And anyone
who swears by the temple swears by
it and by the one who dwells in it. 22
And anyone who swears by heaven
swears by God’s throne and by the
one who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law
and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You
give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill
and cumin. But you have neglected
the more important matters of the
law—justice, mercy and
faithfulness. You should have
practiced the latter, without
neglecting the former. 24 You blind
guides! You strain out a gnat but
swallow a camel.

Note: Some translations will even say
"scribes and Pharisees" rather than
"teachers of the Law and Pharisees." The King James, for example, says:
13 But woe unto you, scribes and
Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up
the kingdom of heaven against men:
for ye neither go in yourselves,
neither suffer ye them that are
entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and
Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour
widows' houses, and for a pretence
make long prayer: therefore ye shall
receive the greater damnation.
A scribe was also a teacher of the law.
More modern translations clarify that
aspect of the culture we no longer have.
It isn't the pen, it is the oral additions.

true2god:
Islamic liar, so if I write a biography of Obasanjo and I quoted his statements 'verbatically', it wasnt obasanjo that made that the statement I quoted but me. [s]Can you see how you reason, from the anus?[/s] When was the quran compiled, when mohammed was alive or when he was long gone?

allahh knew that John wrote part of the injil.......

honestly i can cope with your shalow minded reasoning, you quoting obasanjo will only be accepted when you give a generally accepted source, so whats the proof that jesus really made that statement. Lol, the quran was written on spot before the death of the muhammad(s.a.w) @bolded: did john actually wrote the book john? this is an unanswered question. paul in a verse said he thinks(not sure) that he has the spirit in him, yet in another verse he says all the scriptures are God's breathed, isnt this funny?? the bible was edited because of "GRAVE" just like king james preface says.

@malvisguy212 sorry that doesnt prove that the scribes did not peddle in words, since the scribes are the copiers and also teachers, isnt it possible that the words they changed were taught to people and is still in the bible? whats your view on this?

true2god:
The entire book of proverbs chapter 8 talked about wisdom of God, especially in the area of creation. 'Wisdom', as the writer highlited here, is never symbolic or representative of any physical person as the JW want to make us believe. Read the entire chapter to get a better understading and not lifting a verse and use it as an over-aching verse that nullifies the rest of the over 20 verse.

And if you say 'wisdom' is made or created you are equally wrong, as being peddled in the Jw New world translation. Wisdom is part and parcel of the nature of God. Wisdom (if you want to personalize it as a person of Jesus) have been with God from the beginning.

Can you tell me the time God was without 'Wisdom'?

Okay, proverb 8:22 is talking about literal wisdom , hmm God didnt have wisdom until he made wisdom for himself abi ? Prov 8:22

Since he made literal wisdom , it means There was a time god dont hav wisdom .

When you grow up from dis delusion, we will discuss

Jozzy4:



you think you can just wake up from sleep and type anything . nonsense

Spotlight on the color part , answer these .

1) just explain to me : what do you mean by Jesus was possessed ? .

Ii ) and do you know that the greek septuagint (a very old translation) which Jesus himself quote and used said " MADE"?

@red, it's right there bolded and underlined and you can't see it

The LORD possessed me
the Word was with God

No wonder you are bad mouthing everyone who says diffrently to you, you cannot see what is said, and you don't understand the scriptures

For the second time Proverbs 8:22 say's the LORD "posessed me", because John 1:1 say's that "the Word was with God" it's another witness to "possessed" being the correct translation in Proverbs 8:22, it's very simple to see.

"made" is an English word, it is not in the Septuagint, it's a word translated, the Hebrew text had the word "qanah" which can mean create, buy, own, possess, recover, redeem, and more depending where the word is used
John 1:1 is just another witness showing that the word "possessed" is the correct word for proverbs 8:22

You can go back to sleep now.

johnw74:

The LORD possessed me
the Word was with God

WHATEVER you posess is your property , Jesus is therefore a property of God . God owns him . Good


meanwhile , proverb 8:24 declares that "he was brought forth " or " given birth to" (chul) , tell us: how was he given birth to ? Bcoz u cant give birth to something you already possess .

"made" is an English word, it is not in the Septuagint, it's a word translated, [size=25]the Hebrew text had the word "qanah" which can mean create,[/size] buy, own, possess, recover, redeem,

Just as you confess that " qanah" means CREATE , @Proverb 8:22 Septuagint declares Jesus as " kitzo " meaning "CREATE OR MAKE .


Beautiful.

Jozzy4:

WHATEVER you posess is your property , Jesus is therefore a property of God . God owns him . Good


meanwhile , proverb 8:24 declares that "he was brought forth " or " given birth to" (chul) , tell us: how was he given birth to ? Bcoz u cant give birth to something you already possess .

Don't change what I'm saying, you don't believe John 1:1, have the courage to say so

"the Word was with God" does not mean "the Word was created by God"
and so the proper translation of Proverbs 8:22 is "the LORD possessed me"

Just as you confess that " qanah" means CREATE ,

I also said it means buy, own, possess, recover, redeem, but if being shifty makes you feel you are right then stay with that spirit

@Proverb 8:22 Septuagint declares Jesus as " kitzo " meaning "CREATE OR MAKE .


Beautiful.

The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the old testament from the Hebrew which word is "qanah"
but continue in finding wrong translations that suit your doctrines.

johnw74

The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the old testament from the Hebrew which word is "qanah"
but continue in finding wrong translations that suit your doctrines.

You cant deny it that the Septuagint said "kitzo CREATE" ; brother , so Septuagint that Jesus himself quote from is a wrong translation ?


Na wah o .

Jozzy4:


You cant deny it that the Septuagint said "kitzo CREATE" ; brother , so Septuagint that Jesus himself quote from is a wrong translation ?


Na wah o .

Once again Septuagint comes from the Hebrew, but you keep on finding wrong translations to suit your doctrines,
Jesus never quoted any wrong translation like the Septuagint Proverbs 8:22

Try and see things clearly, the whole Septuagint is not a wrong translation, the verse discussed is a wrong translation.

If you believe Jesus is God in the flesh you can call me brother, otherwise I'm not your brother, I'm a Christian.

johnw74:


Once again Septuagint comes from the Hebrew, but you keep on finding wrong translations to suit your doctrines,
Jesus never quoted any wrong translation like the Septuagint Proverbs 8:22

Try and see things clearly, the whole Septuagint is not a wrong translation, the verse discussed is a wrong translation.

If you believe Jesus is God in the flesh you can call me brother, otherwise I'm not your brother, I'm a Christian.

Wow , Septuagint is wrong translation wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow

Septuagint : a translation used in Jesus Era

Jesus choose septuagint translation over the traditional hebrew translation ( a case study of LXX matthew 21:16 ) .


When you grow up from this delusion , we will discuss .


Meanwhile , my question remain : can you give birth to something you already possessed ? Proverb 8:24 .

When you sincerely answer that question we will see which translation is correct .

Jozzy4:



Meanwhile , my question remain : can you give birth to something you already possessed ? Proverb 8:24 .

When you sincerely answer that question we will see which translation is correct .

I'm not interested in discussions with unbelievers, I showed you where you are wrong with verse 22 which you have not admitted to and which you rejected John 1:1

Wow , Septuagint is wrong translation wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow

Septuagint : a translation used in Jesus Era

Jesus choose septuagint translation over the traditional hebrew translation ( a case study of LXX matthew 21:16 ) .


When you grow up from this delusion , we will discuss .

@red, What a deceiver you are:

johnw74:


Try and see things clearly, the whole Septuagint is not a wrong translation, the verse discussed is a wrong translation.

johnw74:



[s]
I'm not interested in discussions with unbelievers, I showed you where you are wrong with verse 22 which you have not admitted to and which you rejected John 1:1

@red, What a deceiver you are:

[/s]

1st century Septuagint used by Jesus and his apostles said Created !

Modern translation said possessed

Which do u accept ?

Modern translation

This begs the question : CAN YOU GIVE BIRTH TO something you already possess ? A connection with proverb 8:24

JMAN05:
If you wànted a witness to respond, why don't u invite them?

I don't need to! Over 200views you can't tell me no JWs is among.

How can one [size=14pt]bearing a term that can apply to God mean that that one is God?[/size]

Let me agree that you don't know what you're saying when you type this.

You ve started with this ur puerile argument.

And you've started replying to this puerile argument.

Jozzy4:

And who told you Jesus is not created ?

The Bible told me when it says Jesus is an ETERNAL LIFE or can't it be created?

Proverb 8:22 " The LORD Made me (Jesus) as the beginning of his way, the earliest of HIS ACHIEVEMENT"

Like I explained to one of your brother sometimes ago, if you read the account of that Prov 8 very well you will find out that it totally refutes JWs. I don't have time to go into this now but let me just make emphasis on these.

From verse 26-29 will see WISDOM (the Me in verse 22) talking about the creation.

Verse 26-While as yet HE had not....
Verse 27-When HE prepared the earth...
Verse 28-When HE established...
Verse 29-When HE assigned...

Who is the HE in those verses?

The above nullified the teaching that God first created Jesus before He used Jesus to create other things as we can see it here that the ME said the HE did everything.

so jesus dwell in unapprochable light when he was on earth, abi? tell me when he start dwelling in unaprochable light, lets see if its not after his ascension to heaven ?

Was the life of Jesus started on earth?
Was Stephen when being stoned to death saw Jesus before His ascension to heaven?

Like as you purposely twist that scripture to suit your claim which never comes to your fable mind that people still see Jesus after His ascension.

Jozzy4:


This begs the question : CAN YOU GIVE BIRTH TO something you already possess ? A connection with proverb 8:24


1st century Septuagint used by Jesus and his apostles said Created !

Modern translation said possessed

Which do u accept ?

Modern translation

What a liar you are.
I accept many Bible translations, I accept the Hebrew texts that were before the Septuagint, and I accept the Septuagint, unlike you I can see where some words are wrongly translated.

johnw74:

What a liar you are.
I accept many Bible translations, I accept the Hebrew texts that were before the Septuagint, and I accept the Septuagint, unlike you I can see where some words are wrongly translated.

Just answer my question:


Can you give birth to something you already possessed ?

Jozzy4:


Just answer my question:


Can you give birth to something you already possessed ?

You must have a brain like a sieve
once again, I don't get into discussions with unbelievers, I just sometimes show them where they are wrong
like I have with you.

Emusan:


[s]
The Bible told me when it says Jesus is an ETERNAL LIFE or can't it be created?

Like I explained to one of your brother sometimes ago, if you read the account of th

Verse 26-While as yet HE had not....
Verse 27-When HE prepared the earth...
Verse 28-When HE established...
Verse 29-When HE assigned...

Who is the HE in those verses?

The above nullified the teaching that God first created Jesus before He used Jesus to create other things as we can see it here that th
[/s]

The JW people are not the ones that wrote the septuagint , are they ?

1st century Greek LXX said Jesus is qanah = "kitzo Created " Prov 8:22 , do u agree ?

Was the life of Jesus started on earth?
Was Stephen when being stoned to death saw Jesus before His ascension to heaven?

Com again ! So stephen actually saw Jesus and GOD with his human eyes ?

My guy , so heaven actually opened abi ? Your case is a sorry .

johnw74:

You must have a brain like a sieve
once again, I don't get into discussions with unbelievers,

Am not an unbeliver , infact am different from some hypocrites who will accept the septuagint but once it speaks against their already conceived venomous ideas , they throw it out and claim its wrongly translated .

I just sometimes show them where they are wrong
like I have with you.

You are actually saying the septuagint is an unbeliver. NOT me . Keep pointing finger at a translation used by Jesus

Shame on you .

Jozzy4:


Am not an unbeliver , infact am different from some hypocrites who will accept the septuagint but once it speaks against their already conceived venomous ideas , they throw it out and claim its wrongly translated .



You are actually saying the septuagint is an unbeliver. NOT me . Keep pointing finger at a translation used by Jesus

Shame on you .

You cannot help but lie, like satan who when speaking a lie is speaking naturally.

The spirit in Jozzy4, and it's definately not the Holy Spirit,
but the spirit of lies and bad natured false accusations toward Christians:

Jozzy4

Its clear, You are the confuse person

See your confusion status ?

Mr man ,Why are you so confuse ?

Typical confuse man.

the OP is a confuse man

Who is lying between you both ?

you think you can just wake up from sleep and type anything . nonsense

malvisguy is a confuse person

jozzy to true2god: When you grow up from dis delusion

jozzy to johnw74: When you grow up from this delusion

their already conceived venomous ideas

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jozzy4:


Am not an unbeliver

I asked you if you believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, a believer would jump at the chance to say YES I do,
your non answer shows that you do not believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, you are not a Christian, you are an unbeliever.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I'm sure you don't believe those verses but they clearly state that , verse 1 the Word God, verse 14 became flesh.

jw change their bible to say, verse 1 the Word was a god

however the Greek word for God in "the Word was with God" is "theos" which jw leave correctly as "God"
but in "the Word was God" which is also "theos" jw change to "a god", a very evil thing to do.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Those verses do not just apply to the book of Revelation, but to the whole Bible.

Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.



Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (theos), and the Word was God (theos)

The Word was with God, and the Word was God,
jw lie and change their bible to say, the Word was with God and the Word was a god.

johnw74:


I asked you if you believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, a believer would jump at the chance to say YES I do,
your non answer shows that you do not believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.

okay , Who is God praying to ? ... Another God ?

Emusan:


I don't need to! Over 200views you can't tell me no JWs is among.



Let me agree that you don't know what you're saying when you type this.



And you've started replying to this puerile argument.

Let me agree that u ve still never grow up.

Jozzy4:


Am not an unbeliver , infact am different from some hypocrites who will accept the septuagint but once it speaks against their already conceived venomous ideas , they throw it out and claim its wrongly translated .



You are actually saying the septuagint is an unbeliver. NOT me . Keep pointing finger at a translation used by Jesus

Shame on you .

Do not give such people anything enlightening cos they aren't sincere and humble. Just limit ur comment so that they know nothing more until they become ready to be humble.

Jozzy4:


okay , Who is God praying to ? ... Another God ?

Unbelievers reject and question the scriptures
is why you cannot know or understand.

JMAN05:


Do not give such people anything enlightening cos they aren't sincere and humble. Just limit ur comment so that they know nothing more until they become ready to be humble.

Enlightening, it's impossible to be enlightened from studying a changed and perverted bible.
The jw nwt bible.

JMAN05:


Do not give such people anything enlightening cos they aren't sincere and humble. Just limit ur comment so that they know nothing more until they become ready to be humble.

I challenge you to point out just one thing in my post to jozzy4 that I'm not sincere about,
but there is nothing, is there? you are just jw speaking lies, speaking naturally.

johnw74:


I challenge you to point out just one thing in my post to jozzy4 that I'm not sincere about,
but there is nothing, is there? you are just jw speaking lies, speaking naturally.

U need eye glass. Reread.