obaobirin:
The bible doesn't contradict itself.
It has expressly stated that "And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man" (John 3:13)
Others that were taken to heaven by the agency of God's influence
While on the other hand
Jesus being God (John 1vs 1-end) (colossians 1 vs 11, Colossians 2 vs9) himself released the force of gravity holding him down--thereby the word ASCENDED (to mount, go upward -all by yourself..)

rottennaija:


IL be back

StarFist:


So where went Enoch and Elijah

obaobirin:


The bible doesn't contradict itself.
It has expressly stated that "And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man" (John 3:13)

Others that were taken to heaven by the agency of God's influence

While on the other hand

Jesus being God (John 1vs 1-end) (colossians 1 vs 11, Colossians 2 vs9) himself released the force of gravity holding him down--thereby the word ASCENDED (to mount, go upward -all by yourself..)

taiwo850629:


Just like obaobirin said, it means no one has ascended to heaven OUT OF THEIR OWN WILL. Jesus has ascended to and descended from heaven many times OUT OF HIS OWN WILL as the pre-incarnate Christ.

twosquare:


Case closed...obaobirin and taiwo850629 has finished the matter

obaobirin:
The bible doesn't contradict itself.
It has expressly stated that "And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man" (John 3:13)


Others that were taken to heaven by the agency of God's influence



Jesus being God (John 1vs 1-end) (colossians 1 vs 11, Colossians 2 vs9) himself released the force of gravity holding him down--thereby the word ASCENDED (to mount, go upward -all by yourself..)

taiwo850629:
Just like obaobirin said, it means no one has ascended to heaven OUT OF THEIR OWN WILL. Jesus has ascended to and descended from heaven many times OUT OF HIS OWN WILL as the pre-incarnate Christ.

MizJanet:


Stop lyin, john 6:38 says it not his own will , meanwhile his ascension in Act 1:9 is not by his own power , he was lifted up ... Not that he lift himself up ! Liers everywhere , is that the fruit of xtianity ?

MizJanet:


Stop lyin, john 6:38 says it not his own will , meanwhile his ascension in Act 1:9 is not by his own power , he was lifted up ... Not that he lift himself up ! Liers everywhere , is that the fruit of xtianity ?

OLAADEGBU:
Did anyone ascend into heaven before Jesus or not?

Genesis 5:24; 2 Kings 2:11 and John 3:13

Yes:
"And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him" (Genesis 5:24).

"Then it came about as they were going along and talking, that behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven" (2 Kings 2:11).

"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God" (Hebrews 11:5).

No:
"And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man" (John 3:13)

malvisguy212:
John 3:13, "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in
heaven."

These words were spoken by Jesus himself at a time when ONLY CHRIST HAD SEEN GOD (John 1:18). And how did He know that no man had ascended up to heaven...the throne of God? Because he came from there! Therefore, what heaven did Enoch and elijah went ?

The Scripture mentions three heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2), not just one!

The first heaven is earth's atmosphere where birds fly (Genesis 1:20. Jeremaih 4:25) WHICH CAN BE CALLED SKY
One of the Hebrew words for 'heaven'
is shamayim. This same word is
translated as 'sky' in the Scripture, as
can be seen by comparing Genesis 7:3, "fowls also of the AIR," with Genesis 7:23, "fowl of the HEAVEN."

The word 'sky' and 'heaven' are used
interchangeably from the same Hebrew word (Psalm 8:. So the first heaven is synonymous with 'HEIGHT OR ELEVATION'. In fact in Exodus 19:20 the Lord was on mount saina when he called Moses and God described there as heaven.

The second heaven is outer space
where the planets and stars exist
(Genesis 1:14-17; Psalm 8:3, Matthew 24:29).
Usually the term "HOST OF HEAVEN" or
"FIRMAMENT OF HEAVEN" is used to
describe this second heaven.

The third heaven is literally called "the third heaven" in 2 Corinthians 12:2. This third heaven is what Christ calls his "FATHER'S HOUSE" (John 14:2), and both Christ and the Apostle Paul calls it "PARADISE" (Luke 23:43, 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, Revelation 2:7).

So it is clear, elijah and enoch did not go to the third heaven, which Jesus called his father. The purpose of God in removing Elijah was to replace him with
another man who would occupy Elijah's office in Israel for another fifty years. This work had to start under a new king, for Ahaziah had just died, and Elijah was already aging. So, as not to disqualify Elijah in the sight of the people, God took him away allowing the mantle which signified the office of Elijah to drop into the hands of Elisha. Thus, God preserves the name and office of His prophet.

In 2 king 2:16 the people believe elijah was taken to another location:
2 king 2:16
"Look," they said, "we your servants have fifty able men. Let them go and look for your master. Perhaps the Spirit of the LORD has picked him up and set him down on some mountain or in some valley." "No," Elisha replied, "do not send them."

Elisha reply indicate it was God purpose of taken elijah that why he say "do not send them"

So after All this event had happened
Elisha had died, isreal find himself under a wicked king, God send elijah again;

2 Chronicles 21:12-15
12 Jehoram received a letter from ELIJAH the prophet, which said:
“This is what the Lord, the God of your
father David, says: ‘You have not followed the ways of your father Jehoshaphat or of Asa king of Judah. 13 But you have followed the ways of the kings of Israel,and you have led Judah and the people of Jerusalem to prostitute themselves, just as the house of Ahab did. You have also murdered your own brothers, members of your own family, men who were better than you. 14 So now the Lord is about to strike your people, your sons, your wives and everything that is yours,
with a heavy blow. 15 You yourself will
be very ill with a lingering disease of the
bowels, until the disease causes your
bowels to come out.’”

The content of this latter indicate elijah wrote it after he was taken away. Elijah and enoch went the same heaven.
Peace.

NervousErection:
Types of Christians;

Christians who believe jesus is God : pick verses like John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58 etc
Christians who believe in trinity : pick verses like 1 John 5:7 etc.
Christians who believe jesus in the son of God. : pick verses like Hebrews 1:5, Mathews 3:17, mark 1:11 etc.
Christians who believe jesus is a prophet.(fully man) : pick verses like Mathew 22:11, acts 2:22, 1 Timothy 2:5, Romans 5:15
Christians who believe God is not a man. : pick verses like numbers 23:22, or number 23:19 (NRSV), Hosea 11:9,
NB. All these Christians have the Holy Ghost helping them.

MizJanet:


Stooop Telling Lies , @bold if they went to heaven through the influence of Gods agency , are u saying the son of man that descend from heaven didnt use the agency of Gods influence ? A woman . Am telling you that what you wrote up there is pure nonsense

Its clear , no man has ever ascend to heaven . Yet elijah ascend, to where ? Heaven .. contradiction

And to add to your wounds , how could you guys say Christ is the only way to heaven, since elijah made heaven without him ?

obaobirin:



Another translation Acts 1:9Living Bible (TLB)

9 It was not long afterwards that he rose into the sky and disappeared into a cloud, leaving them staring after him.


AND PLEASE NEVER INSULT ANYONE... THE WORD LIAR IS KINDA STRONG .. BE WARNED !!!

OLAADEGBU:


Has it crossed your mind that Elijah could have ascended to heaven by Christ's power?

obaobirin:
[/b]

Thank you malvisguy212 for this beautiful spellings of the different heavens .. i thought i was the only one with this understanding.. God bless you...


So MizJanet with malvisguy212 and my points i believe you will understand it clearer and to any other person visiting or reading this thread.

MizJanet:


Stop lyin, john 6:38 says it not his own will , meanwhile his ascension in Act 1:9 is not by his own power , he was lifted up ... Not that he lift himself up ! Liers everywhere , is that the fruit of xtianity ?

MizJanet:


Guy , you are very confuse fellow , your first post on this thread says "others were taken to heaven by Gods influence , here you admit they were taken to heaven .


After some minutes , you changed :

"the greek word can also mean SKY" , " and we can conclude that Elijah and Enoch didnt go to heaven" . Maaaan .

That shows u dont know what you are saying

OLAADEGBU:


Didn't Jesus raise Himself up from the dead?

"Jesus answered and said unto them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Then said the Jews, "It has taken forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?" [21] But he spoke of the temple of his body" (John 2:19-21).

"Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. [18] No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; This commandment have I received of my Father" (John 10:17-18.)

MizJanet:


LOL , later you will say KJV is the best , for nw its TLB , confuse people

Meanwhile , ur TLB is error prone bcoz the word "sky" didnt apear in that verse, meanwhile if its sky , that mean like Elijah ur jesus didnt ascend to heaven but to the sky *cool*

malvisguy212:


John 3:13, "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in
heaven."

These words were spoken by Jesus himself at a time when ONLY CHRIST HAD SEEN GOD (John 1:18). And how did He know that no man had ascended up to heaven...the throne of God? Because he came from there! Therefore, what heaven did Enoch and elijah went ?

The Scripture mentions three heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2), not just one!

The first heaven is earth's atmosphere where birds fly (Genesis 1:20. Jeremaih 4:25)
One of the Hebrew words for 'heaven'
is shamayim. This same word is
translated as 'sky' in the Scripture, as
can be seen by comparing Genesis 7:3, "fowls also of the AIR," with Genesis 7:23, "fowl of the HEAVEN."

The word 'sky' and 'heaven' are used
interchangeably from the same Hebrew word (Psalm 8:. So the first heaven is synonymous with 'HEIGHT OR ELEVATION'. In fact in Exodus 19:20 the Lord was on mount saina when he called Moses and God described there as heaven.

The second heaven is outer space
where the planets and stars exist
(Genesis 1:14-17; Psalm 8:3, Matthew 24:29).
Usually the term "HOST OF HEAVEN" or
"FIRMAMENT OF HEAVEN" is used to
describe this second heaven.

The third heaven is literally called "the third heaven" in 2 Corinthians 12:2. This third heaven is what Christ calls his "FATHER'S HOUSE" (John 14:2), and both Christ and the Apostle Paul calls it "PARADISE" (Luke 23:43, 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, Revelation 2:7).

So it is clear, elijah and enoch did not go to the third heaven, which Jesus called his father. The purpose of God in removing Elijah was to replace him with
another man who would occupy Elijah's office in Israel for another fifty years. This work had to start under a new king, for Ahaziah had just died, and Elijah was already aging. So, as not to disqualify Elijah in the sight of the people, God took him away allowing the mantle which signified the office of Elijah to drop into the hands of Elisha. Thus, God preserves the name and office of His prophet.

In 2 king 2:16 the people believe elijah was taken to another location:
2 king 2:16
"Look," they said, "we your servants have fifty able men. Let them go and look for your master. Perhaps the Spirit of the LORD has picked him up and set him down on some mountain or in some valley." "No," Elisha replied, "do not send them."

Elisha reply indicate it was God purpose of taken elijah that why he say "do not send them"

So after All this event had happened
Elisha had died, isreal find himself under a wicked king, God send elijah again;

2 Chronicles 21:12-15
12 Jehoram received a letter from ELIJAH the prophet, which said:
“This is what the Lord, the God of your
father David, says: ‘You have not followed the ways of your father Jehoshaphat or of Asa king of Judah. 13 But you have followed the ways of the kings of Israel,and you have led Judah and the people of Jerusalem to prostitute themselves, just as the house of Ahab did. You have also murdered your own brothers, members of your own family, men who were better than you. 14 So now the Lord is about to strike your people, your sons, your wives and everything that is yours,
with a heavy blow. 15 You yourself will
be very ill with a lingering disease of the
bowels, until the disease causes your
bowels to come out.’”

The content of this latter indicate elijah wrote it after he was taken away. Elijah and enoch went the same heaven.
Peace.

obaobirin:
[/b]

Thank you malvisguy212 for this beautiful spellings of the different heavens .. i thought i was the only one with this understanding.. God bless you...


So MizJanet with malvisguy212 and my points i believe you will understand it clearer and to any other person visiting or reading this thread.

OLAADEGBU:


"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" (Hebrews 11:5).

Does this verse not indicate that Enoch did not see death? Where else will he be translated to if not in the third heaven?

MizJanet:


Very Good , you have just proved that your Jesus Lied in john 3:13 .