obaobirin:


TLB Version is The Living Bible...TLB GO AHEAD AND READ IT YOURSELF ... Cos i think you are just here to talk down yourself... confused fellow

On this same thread it has been proven that there are 3 types of heaven ... you didnt see that one..

The first heaven is earth's atmosphere where birds fly (Genesis 1:20. Jeremaih 4:25) WHICH CAN BE CALLED SKY
One of the Hebrew words for 'heaven'
is shamayim. This same word is
translated as 'sky' in the Scripture, as
can be seen by comparing Genesis 7:3, "fowls also of the AIR," with Genesis 7:23, "fowl of the HEAVEN."

the underlined says it all , TLB is trying to say Jesus went to the sky where birds fly , no wonder it use "sky" . Dats serious

MizJanet:


the underlined says it all , TLB is trying to say Jesus went to the sky where birds fly , no wonder it use "sky" . Dats serious

OLAADEGBU:


Jesus did not lie, He said that no one ascended to heaven before Him. To ascend to heaven means to go in one's own power. Enoch and Elijah were translated in God's power and Jesus is God, the third Person in the Godhead.

MizJanet:


Really ? Nice contradiction to Galatian 1:1 which says God the Father raised Jesus from the dead . lol

Why is your book so contradictory

obaobirin:


read malvisguy212 post and do not use one version of the bible. thank u.

New International Version
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

New Living Translation
It was by faith that Enoch was taken up to heaven without dying--"he disappeared, because God took him." For before he was taken up, he was known as a person who pleased God.

English Standard Version
By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God.


DID HE DO IT BY HIMSELF?

obaobirin:


You are disturbing yourself OLAADEGBU.. Your quotes Mentions dont depict what you believe... study the scriptures for yourself and stop quoting people up and down...

OLAADEGBU:


Jesus did not lie, He said that no one ascended to heaven before Him.
To ascend to heaven means to go in one's own power.

OLAADEGBU:


There is no contradiction in the Bible it's just a mystery to those who are without. When you understand the mystery of the Godhead (trinity) you will come to understand that Christ Jesus has the Power not only to raise His body from the dead but to also ascend up to the third heaven.

obaobirin:





why didnt u talk about the 2nd and 3rd ..... maybe thats were your own father is



u just wanna joke about it all. SMH

MizJanet:


I know insult is part of you holier than thou people's attitude , buh next time if u cant act maturely , pass the insults to me not parents .

OLAADEGBU:


You seem to have missed out Christians believing all of the above.

obaobirin:
The bible doesn't contradict itself.
It has expressly stated that "And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man" (John 3:13)

Others that were taken to heaven by the agency of God's influence

While on the other hand

Jesus being God (John 1vs 1-end) (colossians 1 vs 11, Colossians 2 vs9) himself released the force of gravity holding him down--thereby the word ASCENDED (to mount, go upward -all by yourself..)

NervousErection:
Yes, because a Christian who believes [size=14pt]all of the above[/size] is brain-dead.

MizJanet:


I know insult is part of you holier than thou people's attitude , buh next time if u cant act maturely , pass the insults to me not parents .

ProphetUdeme:
[s] but he is right. The insults could be well transfered to your parents because they are the cause of your misfortune in life. They didnt nuture your childhood with the fear of God thats why you are walking in darkness. Come to Christ and be set free [/s]

OLAADEGBU:


"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" (Hebrews 11:5).

Does this verse not indicate that Enoch did not see death? Where else will he be translated to if not in the third heaven?

MizJanet:

*turns off radio*

malvisguy212:
good evening, how are you doing?

MizJanet:

Am very fine and you ?

OLAADEGBU:


Did anyone ascend into heaven before Jesus or not?

Genesis 5:24; 2 Kings 2:11 and John 3:13

Yes:
"And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him" (Genesis 5:24).

"Then it came about as they were going along and talking, that behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven" (2 Kings 2:11).

"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God" (Hebrews 11:5).

No:
"And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man" (John 3:13)

In John 3:13 Jesus says to Nicodemus, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.” This verse is somewhat difficult to interpret and is often misunderstood. It is also frequently used by those who want to find contradictions in the Bible.

We must keep the verse in context. In verses 10-12, especially, we see that Jesus is talking about His authority and the validity of His teaching. Jesus tells Nicodemus that He has been teaching what He knew firsthand: “We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen” (verse 11). Then, in verse 13 Jesus explains why He is uniquely qualified to teach of the kingdom of God—namely, because He alone came down from heaven and possesses the knowledge to teach people about heaven. Jesus alone has seen the Father, and He alone is qualified to declare God and make Him known (John 1:18).

The gist of John 3:13 is this: “None of your earthly teachers can really teach you about heaven, because none of them have actually been there. However, I have been there. In fact, it is My home. I have come to you from heaven, and I have brought with Me experiential knowledge of that place. My testimony carries weight; I can tell you the truth about salvation.” The NLT brings out the meaning well: “No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.”

In claiming a heavenly abode, Jesus was claiming deity. Nicodemus himself had already admitted that Jesus was extraordinary when he said, “We know you are a teacher who has come from God” (verse 2).

Jesus was not teaching that no one had ever gone to heaven before. Obviously, the Old Testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died (Mark 12:26-27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Rather, He was teaching that, of all rabbis, He had the best credentials. Jesus has direct contact with heaven; He is an expert on the subject.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/John-3-13.html#ixzz3dsaGBlT1

dolphinheart:
3. to butress 1 above , the scriptures said he ,enoch(along with others ) saw the promise afar off but have not received it yet and their condition is just like Davids condition as at the time the NT was written.

OLAADEGBU:


Suggested answers:

Obviously, the old testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died ( Mark 12:26,27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying ( Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5, 2kings 2:11)

MizJanet:


The above made it clear that ur jesus dyin doesnt make sense and he is not the way to heaven . No wonder the jews and muslims bash you .

@underlined , so some humans didnt die , that means ur bible lied at Romans 5:12 , Paul is not aware that death didnt spread to all men.

Bunch of confused beings

OLAADEGBU:


Don't disturb yourself because these things are spiritually discerned. When your spirit man becomes alive then you will understand what is mystery to you today.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians 2:14).

dolphinheart:
Nice to see [size=14pt]you have agreed[/size] that they died and did not go to heaven.

What bothers me is ur search for something wrong where there is nothing wrong. We are discussing from the bible here on if enoch and elijah went to heaven during their time (before jesus came to earth) and not on if they will ever go to heaven or [size=14pt]are in heaven now.[/size]

The @bold part shows how confused you are, it's not new since that's how you normally contradict yourself.
And the funny part of is is that in your own deluded mind you will never see it.

[quote]I will explain my view on ur statement only once on these thread, dnt want to derail it.

Pls, can you show me where it is states that [size=14pt]they will live in a city?[/size] A city the pious one will build?

You tried to link the word "city" in this verse with the view of jehovahs witnesses on their building works after armagedon. People might not see your twistings , but I see it.

You did not tell us about the city prepared by jehovah,what city is that ? Is it for their residence or does preparing [size=14pt]such city signify something else.[/size]
Heb 11:10, 16;
12:22;
13:14 .
Re 11:2
Re 21:2-27;
22:14, 19;
3:12.(pls read those verses)

Note that also that verse did not say they will go to heaven , but that they lounged for a heavenly country.

Did this faithful loyal servants of jehovah later go to heaven ?
After listing many pre Christian [size=14pt]persons of faith,[/size] Hebrews 11:39, 40 says: And these all, [size=14pt]having obtained a good report through faith,[/size] received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

* some translations use "apart from us" in verse 40

Note the words in that verse which are "promise", "us", "they".

The promise of heaven was made by jesus to his followers and it [size=14pt]is based on his ransom sacrifice.[/size]

There was no mention of heavenly hope for those that died before jesus came.

The term "us and they" let's us understand that paul was talking about two groups of people.

Who are here meant by “us”? Hebrews 3:1 shows that they are “partakers of the heavenly calling." The pre-Christian [size=14pt]persons who had faith,[/size] (the "they" in that verse) then, must have a hope for perfect life somewhere other than in heaven.

Ps. 37:29: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”
Rev. 21:3, 4: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

“Not Made Perfect Apart From Us.”
After reviewing the record of faithful men of the pre Christian period from Abel onward, the apostle says none of these got “the fulfillment of the promise, as God foresaw something better for us, in order that they might not be made perfect apart from us.” ( Heb 11:39, 40) The “us”
here clearly refers to anointed Christians ( Heb 1:2; Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Firstly, the fulfillment of the promise here means that NONE OF THEM WITNESS THE ACTUAL PROMISE OF GOD. THAT IS; THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH

Secondly, if we should follow your analogy it means Jesus is God since you said it was Jesus who ACTUALLY MADE THE PROMISE OF HEAVEN to His followers whereas here you're trying to prove that there was truly a promise but just that the promise wasn't fulfilled on them.

Lastly, you said and I quote "The “us” here clearly refers to anointed Christians" and you supported it with Heb 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,...
Now let me prove to you how we can conclude that The 12 Apostles won't be among this Anointed Christians BY CAREFULLY READ YOUR BELOW QUOTE.

[quote]Heb 2:1-4 : Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard........ which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us [size=14pt]by them[/size] that heard him; .......),

For these faithful men of pre-Christian times, therefore, their being “made perfect” must relate to their resurrection, or restoration to life, and thereafter their being “set free from enslavement to corruption” by the services of the priesthood of Christ Jesus and his underpriests during the Millennial Rule.

In conclusion enoch and elijah did not go to heaven and the views of jehovahs witneses is not contrary to the bibles view in these matter.

MizJanet:



Mehn , girls are laughing so hard here at the way you are desperately looking for an excape route .

Here are the question again.

I. Why do you christians shout that jesus is the only way to heaven , Since the old testament saints made heaven without him dying for their sin ?

MizJanet:


2. Why is paul lyin that death spread to ALL men , since some humans didnt die ?

Please Answer Or Else You Will Embarass youself in front of this girls , waiting ..

OLAADEGBU:


"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).

Jesus is the only way to heaven. No one goes to the Father without Him. Every other proposal is one of darkness.

Enoch and Elijah are still coming back to die as the two witnesses after the rapture. They had their own rapture to paradise but they are coming back as the two witnesses who would then be killed only for them to resurrect on the third day.

MizJanet:


I dont think you are normal, is this not your first statement " obviously, the old testamet saints had gone to heaven when they died" , that declares your Jesus death as totally useless , aftrall humans have made heaven without him dyin for anyone

MizJanet:


U are a man of deceit and infact, full of lies.
Kindly point the underlined statement for me in your holy book ?

OLAADEGBU:


The OT saints went to paradise which is now in the third heavens.

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43).

Depending on who you choose to believe, word of faulty man or the infallible Word of God. Some have chosen to believe lies. Will you believe if I give you biblical references to back up my point?