KunleOshob:

initiate link=topic=242199.msg3900556#msg3900556 date=1242905399:

Scripture records several ceremonial obligations, such as the law of animal sacrifices, which are no longer binding upon the New Testament church (Heb. 9:8–10). These were types that were fulfilled by Christ at his first advent. However, tithing was instituted for a specific purpose and not as a type. The Apostle Paul presented no argument against tithes as he did repeatedly against the ceremonial issues of the law (ex. meats, holy days, new moon feasts, Sabbath days, circumcision, etc.). Jesus himself even commended people for tithing (Matt. 23:23). There are many scriptures in the New Testament showing where the ceremonial law of God was fulfilled and no longer applicable to the church, but there is no scripture stating that tithing in no longer necessary.

T

The above quoted is a very poor lie as there is scriptural evidence that Apostle Paul condenmed tithing and described it as a weak and useless commandemnt in hebrews 7

Hebrews 7:5-19:

The apostle did not condemn tithes in Hebrews 7. We've dealt with that chapter in another thread to show that it was not tithes that the apostle described in Hebrews 7:18 as 'weak and useless'.

The one question that is left unanswered is WHAT exactly does Scripture describe as "weak and useless"? The reason why anti-tithers have never had an honest answer to that question is because they have substituted 'tithes' for the Law that Paul discussed in that chapter; and when they got stuck, it probably occured to them that they've argued completely off-course in the ambit of that chapter.

How many honest theologians think that Hebrews 7:18 ('a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof') was referring to "tithes"? Not one that we know of. The remarkable thing is that even honest anti-tithers who do a bit of theology have never described that verse as describing 'tithes' to be weak and useless. Why? Simple: they will not find any other verse in the entire Bible that describes tithes as such. I also quoted just a few honest Bible scholars who have commented on Hebrews 7:18 - none of them regard that verse as pointing to 'tithes':

[list]

[1] Verse eighteen specifically states that “there is a setting aside of
a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness.”

The former commandment is a reference to the Mosaic Law^[54]

The reference to weakness refers to the inability of the Law of Moses
to empower the saint to fulfill the requirement.
~~ Essential Christianity, on Hebrews 7:11-22.

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[list]

[2] "For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before".
The reference here is to the entire system of the Mosaic institutions.
That system is here spoken of as "the commandment going before".

. . . The commandment going before was that which regulated the
worship of God and obedience to Him prior to the Christian dispensation;
but this had now been cancelled and a new law of worship given.
~~ A. W. Pink, Commentary on Hebrews 7:17-19

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[list]

[3] Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament,
Hebrews 7 >>
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"Verse 18
For there is a disannulling of a foregoing commandment because of
its weakness and unprofitableness.

This turns attention to the very nature of the Levitical system
of which that priesthood was the support and center. It was not of caprice that God
annulled the old covenant, for it deserved to be annulled because of its weakness
and unprofitableness. God had never considered the Levitical system to be complete,
final or efficacious in itself; but "it was added because of transgression, until the seed
should come to whom the promise hath been made" Gal. 3:19). The law expired, therefore,
by limitation, when Jesus was revealed as that "seed" so long anticipated. The weakness
and unprofitableness of that foregoing commandment refers to
the whole system of Moses;
and Macknight explained the weakness of it thus, . . . ."

[/list]

[list]

[4] John MacArthur (himself an anti-tither),
'Jesus the Superior Priest, Hebrews 7:11-19' >>
|
"For there is verily an annulling of the commandment going before for the weakness
and unprofitableness of it." God set aside the old standard. Now watch.
Now put a parenthesis at the beginning of verse 19. "(For the law made nothing perfect),
but the bringing in of a better hope by which we draw near unto God." Or you'd use and.
Lemme read it this way. "For there is verily an annulling of the commandment going before
for the weakness and unprofitableness of it. (For the law made nothing perfect), and
the bringing in of a better hope, cross out did, by which we draw near unto God." You see?
God says, "I am setting aside the old one, and I'm bringing in a new one; and in
the new covenant, you have what? Access to God.

Now, the word disannulling, afaytises, has to do with the doing away of something that
is established. It is used, for example of annulling a treaty, of annulling a promise, a law, a
regulation, of erasing a man's name from something. It has to do with removing what is
established. The whole paraphernalia of the sacrificial system, the whole
ceremonial system is wiped out. It is annulled. It is done away with. God wipes it
out; and He wiped it out for good in 70 AD when He destroyed the temple. The old system
could reveal sin. It could cover sin. It could give a relative measure of drawing near to God,
but not full perfection. It brought nothing to conclusion. The priesthood of Jesus Christ made
all that Israel looked forward to a reality. Access to God.

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So many other Bible scholars know that Hebrews 7:18 was referring to the Levitical law and its system, and not an argument against tithes - even anti-tithers know this for a fact, more so because they cannot find any verse in the Bible describing tithes to be weak and useless. It remains, therefore, for those using that verse to attack tithes to please show us from Scripture HOW exactly it is weak and useless - no excuses will do the magic for them; and if they cannot show this, it is because they are bending the verse to argue what it does not argue.

KunleOshob:

I would also like you to clap for your self as i have observed that you are quite adept at quoting the bible out of context. But let me ask you one simple question, how does the bible define tithes?? Please quote scripture to back your claim.

You can't be slyly putting down others if you've been doing the very same thing you condemn. You seem to be the only anti-tither we know who forces Hebrews 7:18 to say what it does not teach, even though many anti-tithers know better.

@pilgrim1, kindly answer the questions I raised on this thread.

@SirJohn,

SirJohn:

@pilgrim1, kindly answer the questions I raised on this thread.

I'm quite honoured, thank you.

SirJohn:

Malachi 3:10-12 probably is one of the most popular bible passages today. This is no surprise at all as it is constantly brandished by pastors and several other church leaders for whatever purpose they hope to achieve.
I do not intend to start another endless debate on whether or not tithing is for the new testament Christian; I just have few questions for the proponents of tithing:

I thought the thread said "A Question", but now it's a "few questions"? Lol, just teasing ya.

SirJohn:

Malachi 3:10-12
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

If this passage plus the claims of some clergymen are anything to go by, there should hardly be any hungry tither in the world;

Your inference is wrong. Verses on tithes in the Bible are not as hard-and-fast as you implied or assumed.

               ____________________________________


Now, your questions:

SirJohn:

so here are my questions:

1. Can you say that true tithe payers always have this ‘open heaven’ experience?

I don't know.

SirJohn:

2. What can possibly be the explanation for poor tithe payers struggling to make a living?

I don't know.

SirJohn:

3. ‘And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes’ pastors have used this passage to mean that true tithe payers are always
     exempted from seasons of lack, misfortune and unwanted loss, is this true?

I don't know.
I could only speak for myself - that promise has proven true every single time in my life.

SirJohn:

4. What blessing is exclusive for the tithe payer which non-tithe payers like me and kunleOshob cannot enjoy?

Precisely what the Word teaches there, and which has been proven in the lives of those who have experienced it.

I've complied by being brief and straight to the point. Before you assume anything not implied in my answers, it would be great if you invite me to offer explanations for what you're not clear about.

Regards.

True tithers know themselves and they will explained beta to you that God never with hold good things from them, Stop doubting the power behind the scripture

It is highly crazy for someone to discourage tithe payer even when you are nt paying.
If you have any beef against your pastor, try to settle it or better still start your own church if there would not be tithing or contribution.
Mind what you say, afterall you know the bible well enough to understand it is not biblical to pay tithe, but you dont know it is wrong to say evil against any man of God. Judge nobody is what my bible says I don't know about yours.

Stop paying tithe and shut your trap, let the payers be deceived into paying God that rewards will reward everyone accordingly.
Follow your heart and see where it leads you. When someone deceives/force you into paying tithe, you are only wasting your money and time. Pay happily or keep your coins.

Stop mocking God and His Church

^^^ It is tithe preaching pastors that are mocking God and the church.

Toppiano:

It is highly crazy for someone to discourage tithe payer even when you are nt paying.
If you have any beef against your pastor, try to settle it or better still start your own church if there would not be tithing or contribution.
Mind what you say, afterall you know the bible well enough to understand it is not biblical to pay tithe, but you dont know it is wrong to say evil against any man of God. Judge nobody is what my bible says I don't know about yours.

Stop paying tithe and shut your trap, let the payers be deceived into paying God that rewards will reward everyone accordingly.
Follow your heart and see where it leads you. When someone deceives/force you into paying tithe, you are only wasting your money and time. Pay happily or keep your coins.

Stop mocking God and His Church

I asked a simple question, if you have an answer to it then give it to me if not, stop blabbing or go some place else to display your ignorance

well, if we believe in God and His Word in the holy Bible, i believe God can not lie.

So what did God say

SirJohn:

So what did God say

Good question. mypastor, What did God say 

I believe in the resurrection. lol
I'll tell you one of the things God said. He said "even this whole nation, bring ye all the tithes"Malachi 3. Abi no be God talk am?

Someone told me that if you have a problem with tithing, just give 10%. Call it whatever you like. Problem solved.

A.K.O?
I do believe in the resurrection!
Give 10% ke, some people hia are afraid from falling from their high horse, and they've even dubbed that horse some virtuous name.

Wahala90:
My Questions for non-tithe payers

1. Can you say that non-tithe payers always have this ‘open heaven’ experience?

2. What can possibly be the explanation for poor non-tithe payers struggling to make a living?

3. ‘And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes’. Does this passage mean that christians should not pay their tithe or that non-tithe payers are always exempted from seasons of lack, misfortune and unwanted loss?

4. What blessing is exclusive for the non-tithe payer which tithe payers cannot enjoy?

Very daft and irrelevant questions. the burden of proof is on those who make ridiculous claims of imaginary blessings attached to tithing.

my observation about this tithe issue is that the people that are collecting tithe and the managers of tithe are not following the bible. (let there be food in my house)that is the primary aim of God when he instructed the Jews to pay ten percent of their earnings. What do we have today, Pastors are acquiring private jets, schools are build with the church poor members out of the mind of the administrators and G O living expensive live without looking at the side of whoever that is in need among the congregation. t