Syncan:
Oga,amidst all these singing and chanting

SMH, sarcasm isnt not going to help here my friend, so pack it in.

Syncan:
Please read again these words of yours, especially in bold, and tell me what is in my post below that you're quarreling with.

You please read the below quotes,
where the second is my first response to your original post, quoting Bigbang2013 and you.
Also please remember that Bigbang2013 specifically mentioned "forsaken" stressing the gravity of the word
and you then responded with a point blank Psalm 22 post.

Bigbang2013:
if Jesus has the same will has God why did he prayed to God on the cross he even went to an extent of say
"father, father why have though forsaken me" do u know the gravity of that word....

MuttleyLaff:
"... Father, Father why have thou forsaken me..." is not what was said in the Aramaic language He uttered.
This wrong interpretation has been passed down and incorrectly taught this way

Syncan:
Psalm 22.

MuttleyLaff:
So? What about Psalm 22?
That right there, the Psalm 22 you displayed, is the genesis.
By hook or by crook, translators try to align Jesus's utterance on the cross with David's lamentation in Psalms 22:1,
but the two scenarios really arent the same

Not sure of the translators' sincerety when imagining and settling for "forsaken"
when that wasnt what Jesus, in the Aramaic language uttered on the cross.

I do understand, and do see why the translators leaned towards "forsaken"
but going for that strong and "borrowed from Psalms 22:1" "forsaken" word stretched the truth
and obliterated getting the true understanding of what Jesus actually said and/or really meant on the cross

Quite sure Jesus is fully aware of Deuteronomy 31:6, Deuteronomy 31:8, Joshua 1:5 and 1 Chronicles 28:20 to not have used that strong "forsaken" word in the manner or way, that the translators want to lead all to believe is what and how He uttered the words

I repeated and/or reposted above both Bigbang2013's and your response for all to see and to jolt your memory

From the word go, I have highlighted and zoomed on "forsaken" and not fazed whether or not Psalm 22 was quoted

Syncan:
Since I've seen you just want to pass an opinion to me, I have taken note of it, but like I said earlier I am not inclined towards it. Someone made a post about Jesus praying to the father, I referred the person to Psalm 22, You came in arguing against my post of "Psalm 22", only for you to start posting the bold. If the bone of contention is not Jesus quoting Psalm 22(as you stated above), and you accept he was quoting Psalm 22, why do you quarrel with my post that simply said "Psalm 22"

You like stretching the truth dont you? Read or listen to what you're writing.
Please at least be honest and honorable to admit that the bone of contention is about the word "forsaken"

If you've taken of it, welldone to you, if not, no sweat
as it wasnt necesarily for your personal consumption alone but was for the general readership's too

Syncan:
O my people,"wherefore consider, I pray you, and see how he seeketh a quarrel against me" 2Kings 5:7

Stop playing the victim card here Oga
Can you please not be daft, no one is picking a quarrel with you
but what so far has been said, is that, Jesus for the benefit of the disciples uttered in Aramaic the purpose
(i.e. the reason all those things were happening, the reason why He was created or the reason why He came to exist)
He then after declaring that the purpose (i.e. the process for salvation) is finished or accomplished
excused Himself with the "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit" last word

Jesus chose His word very carefully and didnt speak impetuously when He used "Eli, Eli, lama, Sabachthani"
He actually was paraphrasing the begining of Psalm 22 (i.e. Psalm 22:1) just like He paraphrased the end of Psalm 22 (i.e Psalm 22:31)
There are a bunch of other scriptures and messianic psalms Jesus paraphrases.
Paul Peter et al also display this behaviour

Jesus deliberating DID NOT quote Psalms 22:1 verbatim or directly
but consciously changed or switched language and used the Aramaic "sabachthani",
so as to make the distinction from the Aramaic "nashatani"

"nashatani" and "sabachthani" are both Aramaic
"Nashatani" is the Aramaic word for the Hebrew word "azabtani", where in Psalms 22:1 it is correctly translated as the English word "forsaken"

Since "Eli, Eli, lama, Sabachthani" is Aramaic, if Jesus meant "forsaken", He would have uttered "Eli, Eli, lama, Nashatani"
where "Eli, Eli, lama, Nashatani" would mean "My God, My God, why hath Thou forsaken Me"
but He used "Eli, Eli, lama, Sabachthani"
which means:
"My God, My God, this is why You kept me"
or "My God, My God, this is My destiny" (i.e. I was born to do this)
or "My God, My God, this is what You permitted"
or "My God, My God, this is what You allowed"

Unlike some like you, specifically saying or insisting on "forsaken", the Aramaic speaking disciples and others in the crowd who were from Galilee never for a moment thought that Jesus had said God had forsaken Him.
How can that possibly be? God, forsaking Jesus? Nah, no, no, no.

Those words:
"My God, My God, for this I was kept"
or "My God, My God, this is why You kept me"
or "My God, My God, this is My destiny" (i.e. I was born for this)
or "My God, My God, this is what You permitted"
or "My God, My God, this is what You allowed"

was deliberated spoken in Aramaic by Jesus to God the Father and He spoke it loud and clear enough for the benefit and hearing of the disciples and others who understood Aramaic. He confirmed the plan, confirmed the reason for His crucifixion, and confirmed the execution of the plan
He did all this to the hearing of the disciples et al, made it publicly official, so that the beautiful message be known and be passed on to the entire world by the hearers of those unforgetable last words.

If you dont get it, if you refuse to admit that it is about the "forsaken" word, if you want to bury head in sand etcetera, so be it.

I wasnt quarrelling with you or having a tiff with you. I have a thousand one, better, and more attentive things to do than quarrel with you.
I was compelled to share this and my spirit or conscience wouldn't be at peace or stay at rest without sharing the knowledge
and besides that, I am lover, not a "quarreller", not a fighter.

I've done my bit bro. Have a great week.
I should have given up long time because for all it's worth, I've had my posts hidden and got banned twice by the finicky antispam bot,
Seun or one of the moderators came to the rescue and unhid the post, only to get slayed again by the antispam bot and hide my post again when trying to clean and tidy up the typos etcetera with another post before cancelling my original post which is no longer hidden.
I thought I have edited out what is triggering or setting off the antispam bot
but no, I havent, as I still had my post hidden and got banned again hence the muttleylaff2 ID

the fact that you pick some point from the Bible doesn't jusify that your points real ..Because actually none of u have read the original version of Bible and as a matter of fact if Bible wasn't tampered with they should have just left in a transliteration form so to say I will conclude dat Bible has been tampered with.



Song of Solomon 2:8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills. 2:9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice. 2:10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. 2:11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; 2:12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; 2:13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away. 2:14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely. 2:15 Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes. 2:16 My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies. 2:17 Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether.

furthermore tell me what this actually contribute to us

johnydon22:

This bolded is called Unitarianism meaning Jesus = yahweh and yahweh = jesus.
trinitarian doctrine is Jesus is not the father and the father is not jesus but both are God. . . check your doctrine well because the upper part of your post connotes trinitarian doctrine while the bolded part shows Unitarianism

no he isn't teaching unitarianism, Jesus is equal to his father than is trinitarian doctrine.


And lastly, Yahweh is the name for the one God not for the father alone.

Bigbang2013:
the fact that you pick some point from the Bible doesn't jusify that your points real ..
Because actually none of u have read the original version of Bible
and as a matter of fact if Bible wasn't tampered with they should have just left in a transliteration form
so to say I will conclude dat Bible has been tampered with

Imagine the squirming and the cop out "actually none of u have read the original version of Bible"
Logical deduction instead of abductive reasoning shows that "Sabachthani" is not "forsaken"
The translation and transliteration of "Sabachthani" to "forsaken" or "abandoned" is an error, a violation of what is right
It is an unjust act, a grave injustice and an insult claiming Jesus said God had "forsaken" or "abandoned" Him

This is a serious matter to reveal the truth about "sabachthani"
as "sabachthani" has meanings more than "forsaken" or "abandoned"
This actually should have given any serious minded
and truth seeking believer cause for concern or worry that the truth about "sabachthani" is being gagged

Bigbang2013:
Song of Solomon
2:8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.
2:9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall,
he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.
2:10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.
2:11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;
2:12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;
2:13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell.
Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.
2:14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance,
let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.
2:15 Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.
2:16 My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies.
2:17 Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved,
and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether.

furthermore tell me what this actually contribute to us

Apart from learning from the sweet relationship, beauty and aura in the composition,
I dont know what else you're on about with Song of Solomon
but it's suffice to say you can open up a different thread for it

that is what I keep saying you won't just accept the fact that jesus was a son of man born through divine form but with of high blessing from God n of good moral intelligence which makes him a great prophet of time that is why he is most respected ...in the al-quran sometimes I wonder if he God can simply pray to his father someone hu is more above him n can simply teach his disciples how to pray to him den wat r we saying okay through out his lifetime none of the people around in his existence never worship "jesus"


but the fact that most of us are born into Christianity makes it difficult for you to understand both religion

Bigbang2013:
that is what I keep saying you won't just accept the fact that jesus was a son of man born through divine form but with of high blessing from God n of good moral intelligence which makes him a great prophet of time that is why he is most respected ...in the al-quran sometimes I wonder if he God can simply pray to his father someone hu is more above him n can simply teach his disciples how to pray to him den wat r we saying okay through out his lifetime none of the people around in his existence never worship "jesus"

Its God's prerogative how He does whatever He does, afterall He told Moses:
I AM WHAT I AM, I AM THAT I AM or I WILL BE WHATEVER I WILL BE
besides just as you talk to yourself, God too equally is free to do so

Bigbang2013:
but the fact that most of us are born into Christianity makes it difficult for you to understand both religion

Jesus didnt come to set up a religion,
Enough of your going off topic, from now on, can you please stick to the original post and the "forsaken" matter in it