Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? - Religion (3) - Nairaland
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| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 5:09pm On Dec 29, 2010 |
Tithing remains the longest standing and biggest institutionalized fraud in the history of mankind. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by AKHOZEM: 7:45pm On Dec 29, 2010 |
Talk like a learned man for once stop trying to spread nonsense around |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by ogajim(m): 8:23pm On Dec 29, 2010 |
^^^ Akhozem:What is "unlearned" about what Kunle wrote? Why don't you back up the "tithe is not a scam" belief among some of you folks with actual Bible quotes? Be sure to EXCLUDE Malachi because that ain't for you and I (Maybe you're from the tribe of Levi) |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by melijah77: 9:24pm On Dec 29, 2010 |
If a person want to pay tithes out of there own free will, it's ok. It's not a sin to pay tithes. I disagree with alot of church leaders who teaches that you should pay tithes under New Testament Laws when there is no solid proof. I believe that all of our giving under the New Covenant has been modified under 1 word, "offerings" b/c we have solid proof that offerings took care of everyone. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by newmi(m): 2:58am On Dec 30, 2010 |
The Question really is not whether or not (it is recorded) Jesus Christ and His Disciples paid tithes, the most important and foundamental fact is simply what l have earlier on stated which is that tithing is one of the several practises that stretches beyond the abrogation of the law, not only because it is based on principle but because it pre-exhisted the introduction and reign of the law. l stated that the priesthood of our great Lord and High Priest- Jesus Christ is structured after that of a (man) we bearly know much about because very few is revealed to us in the scripture concerning this larger than life figure called Melchizedek Hebrews 5:6 "As he saith also in another [place]. Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek" And thank God one of the very few revealed information recorded for us about this "King-Priest" and the dimension and style in terms of activity and function characterized with the order of his priesthood is that record of tithing recorded in Gen 14:18-20. Who knows perhaps this was recorded to preparing our hearts for questions like this in years to come because the bible tells us that "all scripture is given by the inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works". (2Timothy 3:16-17). so if the Spirit of God deemed it ncessary to inspire holy men like the writer of this account we have in Genesis 14 to preserve this account for us, then its for the purpose for which we are told the Holy Spirit inspires scriptures as we read in 2 Tim 3:16-17. The priesthood of Jesus Christ is for ever just like that of Melchizedek not like that of the Aaronic order and we see that tithing was a part of his priestly order; he received tithes as the Priest (perhaps that may be the reason why there is no record of Jesus Christ giving tithes) The question again l repeat is not whether or not Jesus or/and His disciples gave tithe but rather we understand that based on scripture tithing is a part of the priestly order of Jesus Christ. Do you agree that we don't know every thing why not imagine if perhaps this is one of those things you have not seen from this perspective. This is based on scripture and not any man's theology and idea. My thanks goes particularly to melijah77 for the manner with which he has maturely responded to post. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Zikkyy(m): 10:56am On Dec 30, 2010 |
newmi: newmi: Mr/madam Newmi, how can the priesthood of Christ be structured after that of man? You insult Christ all because of money? The ‘order of Melchizedek’ does not imply that Melchizedek priesthood was of the same status as that of Christ. There is only one eternal priesthood, one mediator between God and man – Christ. I know you desperately want to justify your tithing activities, but please stop insulting the Lord. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by melijah77: 1:07pm On Jan 02, 2011 |
Hebrew 7:2.To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; In the above scripture we find that Abraham did not give tithes under command, or according to some law, but he freely gave from the heart a tenth of all. So this shows us that tithes was not apart of the order of the priesthood while it was with Melchisedec, but tithes was added as a command according to the law at a later date in verse 5 (below) when the sons of Levi receive the the office of the priesthood. It does not indicate what type of law, but you see the surface of this law when the sons of Levi receive the priesthood. Hebrew 7:5. They that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, I don't see where Melchisedec received the priesthood, but we have proof that the sons of Levi received this office of the priesthood, but it does not indicate who they received it from. I'm thinking the sons of Levi may have received the priesthood office from Melchisedec b/c he is the only 1 that I see that has a priesthood office that is before them. Hebrew 7:12. For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Although CHRIST priesthood is after the order of Melchisedec it does not mean that it is the same priesthood. It is true that Melchisedec abide a priest continually, but CHRIST THE LORD is our HIGHEST PRIEST and MEDIATOR. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by GoodBoi1(m): 10:51am On Jan 03, 2011 |
melijah77:I like your posts, straight to the point! 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. When you read the whole chapter, you would notice that Paul didn't use most of his rights so as to be blameless before the people. The problem we have today is that those rights are ABUSED. I expect schools owned by churches/pastors in Nigeria to be free or at least affordable but the average can't afford it not to mention the poor. It seems today's christianity is somehow selfish. Anyway, I have to pay my 'tithe' (freewill offering) to support the spreading of the gospel. I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD BE BOTHERED BY THIS TITHE ISSUE; BUT SYSTEMATIC STUDY OF THE BIBLE CONCERNING THIS, MAKES IT VERY CLEAR THAT WE ARE NOT TO 'TITHE'. RATHER WE SHOULD GIVE OF OUR OWN FREE WILL. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by GoodBoi1(m): 10:51am On Jan 03, 2011 |
:-) |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by GoodBoi1(m): 2:19pm On Jan 03, 2011 |
It seems the charity of today's nigerian churches is nothing more than giving than to motherless babies homes. The charity of the church suppose to touch the heart of unbelievers and make them praise God. Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Image123(m): 4:02pm On Jan 03, 2011 |
A sincere happy NEW year from me to everybody, as in EVERY. I pray you find joy and true happiness this year and through out life. On to 'business'. I'm back on nl and i barely see any thread that interests moi, so make i play small for here. When someone posts; Tithing remains the longest standing and biggest institutionalized fraud in the history of mankind.You've to consider that he was probably drunk or high when he Warming up for the year, it's a good year already! |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Image123(m): 4:18pm On Jan 03, 2011 |
To the OP I ask again, did Jesus and the apostles have their bathe? Prove it! I thought i'd said it here before, but i'll say it again. That something wasn't 'written' in scriptures doesn't automatically mean that it didn't happen, or that it's false, or the assumption that scriptures must disagree by default. Jesus' obvious regard for the law should tell you that He FULFILLED it. Matthew 5v17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. The same can be said for the apostles. Acts 24v14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing ALL things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Or are you insinuating that they broke the law? (seeing you can't see tithes as beyond the law). |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by ogajim(m): 4:25pm On Jan 03, 2011 |
^^^ You are not God neither are your "MOGs" Kunle was right and you are WRONG! Freewill giving is not even restricted to the "Church" or to Christians, you can give whom ever you please or as your spirit/heart leads you not the kind of nonsense one hears on the pulpit these days about " will a man rob God, " Malachi wasn't even written for the Gentile or Christian, you guys know this and deliberately steal or don't know it and don't care to know it due to PROFIT motive. You all need to repent before it's too late. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Image123(m): 4:40pm On Jan 03, 2011 |
When someone calls the Word of God 'nonsense', knowing fully well where it is in the Bible. When he exalts his friend above the Word, by agreeing that the OT(at least) is a fraud. You immediately sense that such a one MUST not be taken seriously in spiritual matters. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Joagbaje(m): 5:04pm On Jan 03, 2011 |
ogajim: As much as I agree with you that no one should be threatened with the issue of tithe. And Malachi was not written for gentilel. But the issue of tithing gies beyond the law . And God has never at any time condemned it. He condemned many activities under the law. And threes is no single scripture where God spoke against tithe. It continues , as long as there is a high priest . |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by ogajim(m): 5:39pm On Jan 03, 2011 |
Pastor JoAgbaje, Maybe you can start by educating me on who the book of Malachi was addressed to before you take me to school on Abram's one time tithe (of WAR BOOTY) to Melchizedek the king of Salom (later day promise land) or why the Bible never recorded Jacob actually paying what he promised (two different forms), these also happen to differ from the Deuteronomy tithe system. We understand a lot of big time "Churches" have huge budgets these days but that's not a reason to twist the Word of God for financial gain or stability. Jesus paid the PRIZE on the cross and removed the need for a "Priest" between God and man (signified by the curtain of the temple being ripped to reveal the "holy of hollies" I don't see Jesus make any mention of TITHE below do you? Matthew 25:34-40 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. These truly are the last days as stated in Matthew 24 and may God help us all. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by newmi(m): 6:43pm On Jan 03, 2011 |
This question has been answered, there is no record in scripture to that regard that they did of which l have explained from scripture why the principle of tithong still lives on. The problem we have here (and this has always been the problem with many religious folks)- they cloud their understanding of scripture with sentiments. In the first place l should be one fighting and contesting it becoz the money l give as tithe is mine so l shpuld know and understand what and why l am giving my money for so that necessitated my personal research and study of the subject. @Zikkyy Nobody is contesting the superiority of the office with Christ Jesus, you its amazing how some you reason God to be, it only shows that you have not really come to discover the true character of the person of God. For instance when Jesus said to the jews that He was one with the Father and that He came from above and they wanted to stone on the grounds that He being a man make Himself equal with God. But question was that what God thought? Well perhaps you can answer the question correctly now but they were to pldge their lives in defence of their ignorance but how wrong they were, this could be one those scenerios. Look at scriptures without sentiments. Thank you |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by CHARLOE(m): 10:41pm On Jan 03, 2011 |
Interesting topic. I hear alot of people here saying tithing was before d law, how about keeping d sabbath, was that not also before the law? (God rested on d 7th day after creation and commanded us to observe it as a day of rest) So if u must pay/give tithe you must also observe d sabbath and every iota of d law. Tithing was a minor part of the law (as confirmed by Jesus himself) but we're not under under d law but under grace. If u really want to understand and confirm wether we are to give tithe or not, study Paul's gospels and you will see that this issue arose even those days. D jews in d time of Paul were compelling d gentiles to be circumcised and keep d law, but Paul was angry and told them they need not keep d law. It amazes and amuses me how pentecostal pastors are quick to jump to d old testament when it comes to issues of money but are quick to declare we're no longer under d law when it comes to other issues (like keeping d sabbath, not eating unclean food, observing all d feasts etc). Some even say 'tithing is d secret to your prosperity'. Makes me wonder how many pple in d worlds' richest 100 pple paygive tithes! For those who still insist on giving/paying tithe here's my advice: The levitical priesthood is no more, and we have 1 high priest, Jesus (whose priesthood is after d order of melchizedek, whom abraham gave his one-off tithe). D question now arises- how do you give your tithe to Jesus? Remember, He said if you give to d poor you've given to him. So plz if u're convinced to pay tithe, give it to d poor and needy! |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Image123(m): 12:16am On Jan 04, 2011 |
Image123: |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Joagbaje(m): 7:10am On Jan 04, 2011 |
Maybe you can start by educating me on who the book of Malachi was addressed to The book of Malachi was addressed to the Jews. But there are principles in God that are eternal. So tithes and offering are based on principles in God. And spiritual laws. This transcends dispensations and the law. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Joagbaje(m): 7:35am On Jan 04, 2011 |
@CHARLOE CHARLOE: Yes tithing was Institued before the law but thats not the point, even if it was only instituted under the law, it is based on spiritual principles in God and it's continues. There are things instituted under the law that are still applicable to us even as Gentiles because they are based on spiritual principles . E.g honouring your parents, honouring men in power, not speaking evil of dignities.etc. But the things that are shadow of the messiah are no longer applicable to us because the messiah fulfilled them. other things such as the sabbath, circumcision, blood sacrifice etc either also existed before the law or during the law. So concerning the sabbath you spoke about , Jesus is our sabbath, concerning curcumcision, salvation in him is our circumcision, blood sacrifice is fulfilled in christ. Jesus spoke against sabbath, paul spoke against sabbath but for the tithes , no one ever spoke against it. Because it has nothing to do with the messiah. Rather , Jesus our high priest receives our tithes. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 9:40am On Jan 04, 2011 |
@Uncle joe You and i know very well that tithing was anulled and described as weak useless and unprofitable in the book of hebrew. For the benefit of those who might not have come across the passage i would post it below: Hebrews 7:5-19: 5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: 6But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. 7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. 8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. 9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. 10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him. 11If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 13For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. 14For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. 15And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, 16Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. 17For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 1 Like |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Image123(m): 12:01pm On Jan 04, 2011 |
^recycler For the benefit of those who don't know your rigmarole gifts, there's nothing like law of tithe in scriptures. When the scriptures talk about law, it's refering to the law i.e the ceremonial laws done away with by the crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, not some myopic attack on lighter matters when weightier matters are dying for ATTENTION. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Zikkyy(m): 12:34pm On Jan 04, 2011 |
newmi: What exactly were you trying to achieve with your post? newmi: I honestly don’t understand the above. Care to educate me a little? newmi: What sentiments? That you demote Christ or elevate man to justify a practice? What sentiment are you talking about? |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by ogajim(m): 1:27pm On Jan 04, 2011 |
Image123: You guys aren't serious! When you can't point to any Scripture to show that Jesus and the Apostles paid tithes, you retort to rigmarole and gamesmanship to try to cover up your exposed rear ends. Pastor JoeAgbaje has agreed that Malachi wasn't addressed to the Gentiles or Christians and don't those pastors love to SCARE folks with Malachi? There is no principle that said you had to PAY God for blessings as opposed to living a holy life and helping out your fellow brothers and sisters along the way, no where it is stated that your help has to go through a "central collecting agency" to get to the widows, orphans, needy, strangers or what have you. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Image123(m): 3:21pm On Jan 04, 2011 |
ogajim:Quit compassing land and sea like the typical hypocrite scribe. Stop muddling points and persons, this isn't one of we vs. them fights. Face the issues. Where are you dreaming up your scaring folks with scripture, paying God for blessing, and central collecting agencies? Did you forget the OP? This is an issue you may want to deal with below. Image123: |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by ogajim(m): 3:57pm On Jan 04, 2011 |
Pastor image123  Name calling is not a Christian value dude, Jesus came to show us the way We've established he didn't COLLECT tithes or offerings as he wasn't from the tribe of Levi. Fact is that he paid a "Temple tax" to shut up the questions from the scribes and pharisees Anyone who has not heard the Malachi being quoted out of context by money hungry pastors and their associates probably haven't stepped in a Church in a very LONG time or need to let us know where they worship so some of us can check them out. The year is VERY young and I have already heard it this year. LOL  |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Nobody: 4:41pm On Jan 04, 2011 |
Yes tithing was Institued before the law but thats not the point, even if it was only instituted under the law, it is based on spiritual principles in God and it's continues. There are things instituted under the law that are still applicable to us even as Gentiles because they are based on spiritual principles . E.g honouring your parents, honouring men in power, not speaking evil of dignities.etc. But the things that are shadow of the messiah are no longer applicable to us because the messiah fulfilled them. other things such as the sabbath, circumcision, blood sacrifice etc either also existed before the law or during the law. So concerning the sabbath you spoke about , Jesus is our sabbath, concerning curcumcision, salvation in him is our circumcision, blood sacrifice is fulfilled in christ. Jesus spoke against sabbath, paul spoke against sabbath but for the tithes , no one ever spoke against it. Because it has nothing to do with the messiah. Rather[ b], Jesus our high priest receives our tithes. [/b] where did Jesus ask anyone to receive tithes on his behalf?.The tithes paid to churches how does it now get to Jesus who is supposed ro receive it as our high priest |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Zikkyy(m): 4:48pm On Jan 04, 2011 |
Image123: You keep repeating this post. Don’t think you should go this route Image123. To assume a practice is biblical even though it was never recorded comes with some risk if accepted. One can simply adopt the same approach for other contentious practices we find in the various churches today. Nothing in the NT point to the need for believers to tithe. The apostles would easily pass as the first priest/pastors and I don’t see how you can make such inference from their activities and writings. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Zikkyy(m): 4:57pm On Jan 04, 2011 |
Joagbaje: Also note that no one requested for it. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Zikkyy(m): 5:11pm On Jan 04, 2011 |
Joagbaje: Applicable? the concept can still be applicable. Nothing stop anybody from dedicating/offering a portion of his earnings (tenth, a third) or even everything to the Almighty (based on freewill). A Christian requirement? NO. |
| Re: Did Jesus And The Apostles Paid Tithe? by Image123(m): 5:36pm On Jan 04, 2011 |
ogajim:It'd being funny if it wasn't hypocritical. I do not see where i called you names. False accusation is not a christian value. You're the one cynically calling me 'pastor' and 'dude'. Who talked about COLLECT? Who talked about 'temple tax'? Who talked about the money hungry pastors you've been listening to? The question the OP is asking is 'did Jesus or the apostles PAY tithe, or as you may prefer it, give tithe? I've posted scriptures to suggest that they did. Deal with that. |
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