ATTN: plaetton, wiegraf, davien and any other interested person.

I was having a discussion with some people on the nature of human value. My position is that everything in the universe assumes a value on the fact of its existence even if this value cannot be objectively measured. The opposing position is that value is always a subjective measurement and nothing has any inherent value.

I would like your thoughts on this matter.

LordReed:
ATTN: plaetton, wiegraf, davien and any other interested person.

I was having a discussion with some people on the nature of human value. My position is that everything in the universe assumes a value on the fact of its existence even if this value cannot be objectively measured. The opposing position is that value is always a subjective measurement and nothing has any inherent value.

I would like your thoughts on this matter.

Interesting.
I always thought that value is relative and therefore subjective.
In otherwords, every value value is assigned from a particular vantage point. Therefore, if the vantage point changes, then so does the value assigned.

But your position is unique, and leaves room for a lot of thinking on the subject.

I will therefore think further on this your point of view.

I will get back to You in a few years time.
Case is adjurned till 2022.

plaetton:


Interesting.
I always thought that value is relative and therefore subjective.
In otherwords, every value value is assigned from a particular vantage point. Therefore, if the vantage point changes, then so does the value assigned.

But your position is unique, and leaves room for a lot of thinking on the subject.

I will therefore think further on this your point of view.

I will get back to You in a few years time.
Case is adjurned till 2022.

LordReed:
ATTN: plaetton, wiegraf, davien and any other interested person.

I was having a discussion with some people on the nature of human value. My position is that everything in the universe assumes a value on the fact of its existence even if this value cannot be objectively measured. The opposing position is that value is always a subjective measurement and nothing has any inherent value.

I would like your thoughts on this matter.

I am definitely in the 'subjective' camp. I've gone on and on about it, near ad nauseam even, in the past. (In my defense, I do so because I think it important for people to realize there isn't the one correct way of leaving. That sort of conviction is easily one of the greatest causes of misery in our history. I do realize that includes my way of living, but accept there isn't any way to avoid being a hypocrite to some degree or the other. Best I can do is try to limit it).

For instance, if you claim it exists but cannot be objectively measured, I'll point out that it cannot be measured because it simply doesn't exist. Whose criteria are you going to use as the yard stick? Yours? A population's? God's (assuming he existed for this convo, of course)? All these are subjective.

Both predator and prey have a will to live, should prey just lie down and accept their fate? Why should a predator values be inherently superior to that of the prey's? In fact, I've not come across a convincing argument for life of any sort being inherently valuable, even that's a subjective position

I do find it interesting that quite a few skeptics believe there are inherently objective values though. I can't see how they justify their stance

Note: As this position implies, yep, I don't believe there's any inherent good or evil. ISIS, Stalin, Inquisition, all not inherently evil. I'm just happy I live in a time where most of humanity shares similar values to mine and therefore despise these philosophies as much as I do......I hope.

Randomly: Started wild hunt, haven't gotten anywhere yet tho... hopefully soon I will

wiegraf:


I am definitely in the 'subjective' camp. I've gone on and on about it, near ad nauseam even, in the past. (In my defense, I do so because I think it important for people to realize there isn't the one correct way of leaving. That sort of conviction is easily one of the greatest causes of misery in our history. I do realize that includes my way of living, but accept there isn't any way to avoid being a hypocrite to some degree or the other. Best I can do is try to limit it).

For instance, if you claim it exists but cannot be objectively measured, I'll point out that it cannot be measured because it simply doesn't exist. Whose criteria are you going to use as the yard stick? Yours? A population's? God's (assuming he existed for this convo, of course)? All these are subjective.

Both predator and prey have a will to live, should prey just lie down and accept their fate? Why should a predator values be inherently superior to that of the prey's? In fact, I've not come across a convincing argument for life of any sort being inherently valuable, even that's a subjective position

I do find it interesting that quite a few skeptics believe there are inherently objective values though. I can't see how they justify their stance

Note: As this position implies, yep, I don't believe there's any inherent good or evil. ISIS, Stalin, Inquisition, all not inherently evil. I'm just happy I live in a time where most of humanity shares similar values to mine and therefore despise these philosophies as much as I do......I hope.

Randomly: Started wild hunt, haven't gotten anywhere yet tho... hopefully soon I will

Thanks for your thoughts.

I don't think that inherent value is synonymous with good or evil it simply is (bear with me I am trying to put words to something I have not really tried to explain before). It is akin IMHO to height, length, weight, etc defining characteristics of any material body which are completely independent of an observer. I would say every material body's imposition on the fabric of space time imparts it with value that is it adds to the overall make up of the universe.

I was thinking of holding back on Witcher 3 since I haven't finished 2 but the reviews are making me "hungry".

LordReed:


Thanks for your thoughts.

I don't think that inherent value is synonymous with good or evil it simply is (bear with me I am trying to put words to something I have not really tried to explain before). It is akin IMHO to height, length, weight, etc defining characteristics of any material body which are completely independent of an observer. I would say every material body's imposition on the fabric of space time imparts it with value that is it adds to the overall make up of the universe.

I was thinking of holding back on Witcher 3 since I haven't finished 2 but the reviews are making me "hungry".

U don't dey think too far

I mention all that because I'm trying to ascertain who decides what's valuable? Who decides what's good?

For instance considering entropy, could you say anything today is more valuable than matter/energy in those few milliseconds after the bb? If so, why?

Note that of course you could decide for us what's 'good' and we can try to work with that. I'm just stressing that whatever you choose will be subjective. Hitler could be labelled good. Humanity and even life can be labelled bad.

I'll stress that my values are essentially humanistic. But still....it's not a straightforward thing. I believe we all have the potential to move mountains, and equal even. However....


No vex, I've been working so late reply











No, sorry. I've been playing a lot more witcher than work....sadly...

Good lawd did they go all out...