malvisguy212:
can you paste the answer to the question ? If you cannot, don't quote me.

Demmzy15:

Copy copy!

truthman2012:


You couldn't say anything before Rilwayne001 gave a link which I have debunked up there.

Now, you are asked to paste what you think is the refutal from the link and because there is none you said 'copy copy'. Stop deceiving yourself friend.

Demmzy15:

Lol believe whatever you want, your deception gas been exposed once again!

Demmzy15:

Thanks bro, I was about to reply his garbage o! This old man thinks we're joking, deception is what they love the most.

ALLAH (swt) did not copy any pagan act or worship. Every ritual performed in pilgrimage has its origin from prophet Ibrahim (as) and his household. And down the line, generations practised the ritual, but the value of the origin and referring it to the true GOD was lost, hence they replaced the same and other fabrications in dedication to their idols. If you ask the then arab pagans about how they came about their worship, they will tell you they met it from their fathers. ALLAH as they knew from Ibrahim (as) is referring to GOD, but because the generation had relegated to idol worship and they heard the name from their fathers, they made a statue.

The idols and these fabrications are what Muhammad (saw) came to destroy and retain the original symbols and practice for ALLAH (swt) alone. I hope this helps sire - (golpen)

This practice was first observed by a pious person,Hajar the mother of Ismael(AS) and wife of Ibrahim(AS).Allah says in Surah Al-Baqarah 2:158 -Verily! As-Safa and Al-Marwah (two mountains in Makkah)are of the Symbols of Allah.So it is not a sin on him who perform Hajj or 'Umrah (pilgrimage) of the House (the Ka'bah at Makkah) to perform the going (Tawaf) between them (As-Safa and Al- Marwah). And whoever does good voluntarily, then verily,Allah is All-Recogniser,All-Knower.


Narrated Ibn Abbas (radhi Allahu anhu):Ismail's mother went on suckling Ismail and drinking from the water (she had). When the water in the water-skin had all been used up,she became thirsty and her child also became thirsty.She started looking at him (i.e. Ismail) tossing in agony.She left him,for she could not endure looking at him,and found that the mountain of Safa was the nearest mountain to her on that land.
She stood on it and started looking at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody,but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from Safa and when she reached the valley,she tucked up her robe and ran in the valley like a person in distress and trouble,till she crossed the valley and reached the Marwa mountain where she stood and started looking, expecting to see somebody,but she could not see anybody.

She repeated that (running between Safa and Marwa) seven times.The Prophet said:This is the source of the tradition of the walking of people between them (i.e. Safa and Marwa)[Sahih Bukhari Book# 55, Hadith# 583].

truthman2012:

..]

Who is talking about eshbewana?

parisbookaddict:


[s] Once again u have nothing to say...only insults in defense of a fraudulent peadophile mohammed.

Millions have rejected islam after the truth was brought to them and they let common sense and facts prevail.

If u dont leave islam , its likely ur kids will ...islam used to be a huge force in africa and arabic was ubiquitous, today it is a sad story for islam in africa....... so enjoy ur folly if it pleases u. [s] .

All these lackadaisical talkings of yours uhn ..Can't you just respect one for what he is? Why are you like this?

Rilwayne001:


This was the reply brother lanrex lan gave him:




Can we still after the underlined say this practise was copied from the pagans? NO. This reply has been brought to his face times without number. But due to the fact that they are not ready for the truth but silly back and forte arguement, he turned blind eye on it.

Rilwayne001:


This was the reply brother lanrex lan gave him:




Can we still after the underlined say this practise was copied from the pagans? NO. This reply has been brought to his face times without number. But due to the fact that they are not ready for the truth but silly back and forte arguement, he turned blind eye on it.

Rilwayne001:


All these lackadaisical talkings of yours uhn ..Can't you just respect one for what he is? Why are you like this?

Rilwayne001:
As you can see @Demmzy15 and everyother reasonable individual reading this thread, the 2 fools above refused to read my explanation in full, or maybe they find it hard to comprehend. But instead of them to calm down and re-read the explanation again and again till their tiny is able to comprehend it, they rushed in quickly to repeat their stupidity.

Indeed, arguing with fools only brings one down to their level.

malvisguy212:
nonsense!!! are you blind? Or what ? Did you not read this sentence in the hadith I paste ? "SO WHEN ISLAM CAME ,WE GAVE UP
GOING AROUND THEM." what dos this sentence indicate ? The pagan has being doing it long before islam came.

What is the need of the eyes when the MIND is blind ?

Fool! Re-read the my explanation and the hadith in it or go back to school.

Illiterate.

Jagoon:


Does your terrible religion respect the belief of others

Rilwayne001:


Fool! Re-read the my explanation and the hadith in it or go back to school.

Illiterate.

malvisguy212:
yes, thank you for your advice, I will go back to school, but pleased teach me the meaning when the hadith used this sentence
"SO WHEN ISLAM CAME ,WE GAVE UP
GOING AROUND THEM" what does this mean?

Rilwayne001:



First of all, do you comprehend the explanation given up there?

malvisguy212:
who shall we believe? Him or sahih bukari ? The hadith indicate BEFORE islam came the pagan had being performing the very same ritual, the fact that the muslims during muhammed time did not want to performed the ritual and then later muhammed had to assured them "it is the symbol of Allah" proved the people know tawaf between safa and marwa was pagan custom. NO need to doubt if Abraham performed the ritual.

Rilwayne001:

Well, there is no need for further explanation or futile arguement since you can't comprehend it but can come into conclusion to suit what you want. But I believe definitely, the literate and unbiased individual will find it ease to comprehend this.

Have a nice day.

[b]Narrated Ibn Abbas (radhi Allahu anhu):Ismail's mother went on suckling Ismail and drinking from the water (she had). When the water in the water-skin had all been used up,she became thirsty and her child also became thirsty.She started looking at him (i.e. Ismail) tossing in agony.She left him,for she could not endure looking at him,and found that the mountain of Safa was the nearest mountain to her on that land.
She stood on it and started looking at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody,but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from Safa and when she reached the valley,she tucked up her robe and ran in the valley like a person in distress and trouble,till she crossed the valley and reached the Marwa mountain where she stood and started looking, expecting to see somebody,but she could not see anybody.

She repeated that (running between Safa and Marwa) seven times.The Prophet said:This is the source of the tradition of the walking of people between them (i.e. Safa and Marwa)[Sahih Bukhari Book# 55, Hadith# 583]. [/b]

malvisguy212:
(1) Both Hindu and Muslim male
devotees are required to shave their
heads during their pilgrimage.
(2) And similar to their Hindu counterparts, male Muslim pilgrims are
also required to dress in a garment
consisting of two sheets of white cloth.
This type of garment is known as Dhoti in Hinduism.
(3) Just as the worshippers of Shiva
observe a rite in which they walk around their object of reverence seven times,Muslim pilgrims also walk around the Ka’ba seven times.
(4) Both their objects of reverence are
Black Stones. In Hinduism, the Black
Stone is known as Shiva lingam.
(5) While Hindus drink water from the
Ganga River as part of the sacred rites in their worship of Shiva, Muslims drink
from the Well of Zamzam during the
Hajj.
(6) Additionally, the Crescent moon, which is associated with the Hindu deity
Shiva, is also a symbol for Islam. In the
Hindu portrayal of the Shiva symbol, the crescent moon is always painted across his forehead. Moreover, in every
portrayal of Shiva, there is always a
depiction of a snake curled around his
neck. Weirdly, in pre-Islamic times, Allah is supposed to have sent a snake to guard the treasures of the Ka’ba.

lexiconkabir:
to these people and eventually brought them to Islam—
submission to the One True God. The critics speak of the pagan roots of
Islam chiefly because the tribes of pre-
Islamic Arabia were pagans. They also
point out that the Kaabah was used for pagan worship before Islam took over. Some of them even talk of udhiyah, or the sacrifice of animals in connection with the Muslim pilgrimage, as of pagan origin. The first point to be noted is that Islam was able to bring out the people of Arabia from the darkness of polytheism into the light of monotheism. Former idol worshippers broke the idols with their own hands and purified the Kaabah under the leadership of the Last Prophet. This is a fact of history that no one can
gainsay. The significance of the Kaabah derives from the story of Abraham. Indeed, it was originally the first house founded for worshipping the One and Only God of the Universe, long before idols were introduced into it.

Jagoon:


You just confirmed to us that allah is a pagan deity, you don't worship the almighty God by bowing before stones and mountains

Rilwayne001:
As you can see @Demmzy15 and everyother reasonable individual reading this thread, the 2 fools above refused to read my explanation in full, or maybe they find it hard to comprehend. But instead of them to calm down and re-read the explanation again and again till their tiny brain is able to comprehend it, they rushed in quickly to repeat their stupidity.

Indeed, arguing with fools only brings one down to their level.

Demmzy15:
"And they'll use their experience of stupidity to beat you"

Demmzy15:

Silence is the best answer for a fool!

truthman2012:
Rilwayne001



The above is a plain lie. Ishmael was not a baby when he was sent out:

Ten years living in Canaan (Gen 16:3). Abraham was 86 years old when he had Ishmael (Gen16: 16). Abraham was 100 years when Isaac was born (Gen 21:5) So then to find the age of Ishmael at this time we subtract 86 from100 and it gives us 14 years. Is that a baby? Isn’t that a teenager?

Genesis 21 in excerpts:

5 Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.

and the text continues:

8 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned
Abraham held a great feast.
9 But Sarah saw that the son (Ishmael )whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to
Abraham was mocking,

Analyzing this you find that:

Isaac was born after Ishmael. Therefore Ishmael must have been weaned long before Isaac. So Ishmael could not be a baby when he was sent out. So it is a lie that Ishmael was being suckled when they got to Mecca.

The reason Hagar and her son, Ishmael were sent out was because Sarah caught Ishmael mocking her. Can a baby still being breastfed mock?

[s]The whole account of Ishmael in Mecca was a lie formulated by the devil to deceive humanity. The quran never tells how and why Ishmael got to Mecca, why the silence? It never tells the reason for the Jews wanting to kill Jesus, why the silence?[/s]

From where did Muhammad read that Safa and Marwah was an act by Ishmael mother?

The same Bukhari wrote that Safa and Marwah was the practice of pagans. I asked some questions which you could not answer:

How could the pagan highjack islamic worship system(Safa and Marwah) if they were not compatible?

How could idol worshipers adopt the system of the true God?

The truth remains there is a connection between paganism and islam. No wonder Muhammad could pray with pagans:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 006, Book 060, Hadith Number 385.
Narrated By Ibn Abbas : The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Surat-an-Najm, and all the Muslims and pagans and Jinns and human beings prostrated along with him.

malvisguy212:
(1) Both Hindu and Muslim male
devotees are required to shave their
heads during their pilgrimage.

(2) And similar to their Hindu counterparts, male Muslim pilgrims are
also required to dress in a garment
consisting of two sheets of white cloth.
This type of garment is known as Dhoti in Hinduism.

(3) Just as the worshippers of Shiva
observe a rite in which they walk around their object of reverence seven times,Muslim pilgrims also walk around the Ka’ba seven times.

(4) Both their objects of reverence are
Black Stones. In Hinduism, the Black
Stone is known as Shiva lingam.

(5) While Hindus drink water from the
Ganga River as part of the sacred rites in their worship of Shiva, Muslims drink
from the Well of Zamzam during the
Hajj.

(6) Additionally, the Crescent moon, which is associated with the Hindu deity
Shiva, is also a symbol for Islam. In the
Hindu portrayal of the Shiva symbol, the crescent moon is always painted across his forehead.

Moreover, in every
portrayal of Shiva, there is always a
depiction of a snake curled around his
neck. Weirdly, in pre-Islamic times, Allah is supposed to have sent a snake to guard the treasures of the Ka’ba.