winner01:
What are "objective laws" guiding me and you mr menesheh.....In fact what is a law... if it is created by a human, then why does he compel me to see things from his standpoint. they cant define minor the same way you have no right to utter the word law or moral to other humans....
If society (made up of humans) enforced "law and order" and morality....dont you think they are being unfair to the thief, kidnapper or murderer just because he sees things differently from their stand point.....Thats the height of unfair treatment...afterall "morality is subjective"

Subjective : formed, as in opinions, based upon a person's feelings or intuition, not upon observation or reasoning; coming more from within the observer than from observations of the external environment.

Objective : Not influenced by the emotions or prejudices. Based on observed facts.

How dare anybody pick up any ancient books of subjective laws made by naive stone age men, that know almost nothing about their environment, let alone the universe. People that based their explanations of anything not known to them as magical. Be it bible, Quran, TanaK or whatever books that dictate our do-and-dont in this age of awareness is apparently silly.
Morality is what we agreed that will guard our conducts, it must be derive from the bases of pain and less pain(or sweet). Such law will bear physical punishment for defaulters, not spiritual unknown fantasy punishment which allow people to commit more crime.

the idea of devil is not appropriate, then dont you think your idea of bad is also inappropriate...Please i ask for objectivity here....Think critically and tell me if the idea of bad by chance was not fed to us by our primitive ancestors and maintained till date by a clearly bias society. The fact that you were born into a society does not mean you should fully imbibe their idea or standpoint of bad...Lets think critically please.

Your point here is kinda rigmarole. There are morals and ethics that are peculiar to every culture or group that existed at a specific time or century due to dynamics in culture. We don't replicate every practices and norms of our forefathers. We cherry pick the ones that are conducive to the moral standard of the time, then abandon others. You don't import morals of the bible or Quran to us which is totally different from our present perception of reality.

The only evidence i can present about the existence of God is you...
I will also like that you explain how matter came from different parts of an explosion to submit particles together and form an orderly world.

Whats the evidence of unicorn? You. Does it make sense. No
On which datas and mechanisms did you depend on your evaluation, to arrive at the conclusion of your assumed medium, that created me.
What or who created your assumed deity that created space, time, and matter.

Cal me deluded, its your song...But im not blind to the fact that the greatest cult societies of the world mainly propagate hate for the christian God.... and so do atheists or let me say anti-theists.

Yea, we are against it because, it doesn't worth it. There is no rational bases to proclaim anything with such arcane and superhuman claims that violates reality, without any substantial evidence to back it up.
Mind you, whenever you are talking about atheism, don't mention cultism, they are all of the same feather with your believe.

Jezuz needs me

@Ops ur assertion that committed atheists were once christians, is wrong. No, they were not Christians. Have you thought Why there was a need for the enemy to go into the field to plant his own tares when the owner of the field had planted his wheats? They have a goal, choak the wheat.
Johnydon with his smart mouth, is an apostle of satan, but am smiling right now, because I know what awaits him and his cohorts.

You say "Morality is what we agreed on"...you shot yourself in the leg here...You could safely say "morality is what has been agreed on for us"..by some people whose level of sanity and bias were probably not verified......

Morality has been passed down to us by our ancient ancestors, but i dare you to prove their yardstick for this so called "morality"..
Dont you think physical punishment for defaulters is unfair considering the fact that they have a different standpoint of morality..
It is tyrannical and odd to enforce some handpicked ancient laws in a proposed free thinking society. Fairness can only be attained if there is a general agreement of what morality is, this process must put into consideration ideas by people you have labelled "criminals"....
So please be objective as not to enforce your perception of morality on others.



And There was no rigmarole in my point, you speak of morals and ethics and culture and sorts but you failed to root out the basis of this morals, especially considering the facts that the stone age people set them in motion...
You are clearly bias to say that "we cherrypick condusive ones"....i mean who has made a human a judge over the affairs of another...In your objectivity, did you consider that it might not be condusive for me. That is simply unfairness and coercive.


The thing is that, i do not believe in a created deity i believe in an uncreated deity. Let me turn your question around and ask you to prove to me that your whole life isnt one big illusion.

Get this mr menesheh, as stup1d as it might sound...Rationality proves nothing except you can explain to me (not in gibberish) how a big bang in about three minutes transported matching matter over far distances to each other to form a very orderly environment. You have no evidence either....The difference between us is that i choose to use man as an evidence.....

And yes, Most renowned occultic groups share the same feelings with atheists towards the christian God... and the reason is not far fetched....
Please be meaningful,Atheists and cultists are "believers"... cultists believe in the devil, atheists believe that there is no God...

winner01:
Stop being childishly agressive...You may find grace just like thomas and also you may not.....The rich man sadly discovered when it was too late and just like you he wanted proof for his brothers in

luke 16 Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead
goes to them, they will repent.’
“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the
Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from
the dead.’”

Now several people have been raised from the dead via miracles, and this feats are seemingly extint-bound because of gross Godlessness..But the devil-controlled media has to do all it can to keep things strictly physical... why... to keep the majority (even some christians) in a state of doubt till time runs out....and BOOM!!! in a flash, you find out the hard way.

Well, the next time you talk to your God, tell him that I want the same proof that Thomas required in the bible before he believed rubbish the resurrection story. Tell him that I refuse to listen to other mammals use their mouths and lips to just talk and talk. Seeing is believing.

God lives, I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, I believe in the holy spirit, I don't know how to talk plenty like Ya'll on this thread, I'm not that much of a good writter, you're a fool if you don't believe there's God, I know religion is what's bringing this confusion, mind you God did not create religion, humans did, just believe in God and do good.

winner01:

Please be meaningful,Atheists and cultists are "believers"... cultists believe in the devil, atheists believe that there is no God...

Do you misrepresent the atheist position on purpose or are you just trying to score some points for the omnipotent one? Why should I believe that there is a spirit person that you talk to and it talks back? That's not the kind of thing you say with your mouth to another person or show them in a book. You need to bring the kind of proof that was brought to Thomas.

Now if you're claiming to communicate with the creator of the universe, then you must be levitating as you tell me the story or performing deeds that will make me believe your testimony. Everywhere in the story book called the bible, the God always shows up to prove to unbelievers that he is real. Outside of the book, however, we have to argue until we all die. Why is that?

Weah96:


Well, the next time you talk to your God, tell him that I want the same proof that Thomas required in the bible before he believed rubbish the resurrection story. Tell him that I refuse to listen to other mammals use their mouths and lips to just talk and talk. Seeing is believing.

No, you tell Him yourself... and for the christian God, believing is seeing.

Weah96:


Do you misrepresent the atheist position on purpose or are you just trying to score some points for the omnipotent one? Why should I believe that there is a spirit person that you talk to and it talks back? That's not the kind of thing you say with your mouth to another person or show them in a book. You need to bring the kind of proof that was brought to Thomas.

Now if you're claiming to communicate with the creator of the universe, then you must be levitating as you tell me the story or performing deeds that will make me believe your testimony. Everywhere in the story book called the bible, the God always shows up to prove to unbelievers that he is real. Outside of the book, however, we have to argue until we all die. Why is that?

I have a solid premise. You have to be intelligent to see it...God still proves his realities in different ways today, you still have to be intelligent to see it........I hope you find what you are looking for really (except in critical thinking, there is no such thing as hope, hope is make belief if we re-examine it from another skeptic angle dont you think).

winner01:
No, you tell Him yourself... and for the christian God, believing is seeing.

So you just believe it, and its the same as seeing it. SMH.

You know, I had an argument with a neighbor recently about professional boxers having to register their hands as dangerous weapons. I told him that no such thing happens in the US and if you talk trash to Andre Ward on the streets, it's yo arse. He grew incensed and called everyone in the neighborhood to vouch for his opinion, and they did. They had all heard the claim in childhood and just accepted it at face value because Mike Tyson looked so indomitable and strong. Little did they know that the whole thing was an urban myth.

Using your special logic, someone should have slapped me for going against something they had SEEN. They believed it, so they saw it.

BOWOTO:
God lives, I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, I believe in the holy spirit, I don't know how to talk plenty like Ya'll on this thread, I'm not that much of a good writter, you're a fool if you don't believe there's God, I know religion is what's bringing this confusion, mind you God did not create religion, humans did, just believe in God and do good.

Great.

Weah96:


So you just believe it, and its the same as seeing it. SMH.

You know, I had an argument with a neighbor recently about professional boxers having to register their hands as dangerous weapons. I told him that no such thing happens in the US and if you talk trash to Andre Ward on the streets, it's yo arse. He grew incensed and called everyone in the neighborhood to vouch for his opinion, and they did. They had all heard the claim in childhood and just accepted it at face value because Mike Tyson looked so indomitable and strong. Little did they know that the whole thing was an urban myth.

Using your special logic, someone should have slapped me for going against something they had SEEN. They believed it, so they saw it.

Wake up from you slumber... You are a dream.......or did you just believe that you exist?..... special logic huh?, ill say read again, you might just find some logic.

winner01:
I have a solid premise. You have to be intelligent to see it...God still proves his realities in different ways today, you still have to be intelligent to see it........I hope you find what you are looking for really (except in critical thinking, there is no such thing as hope, hope is make belief if we re-examine it from another skeptic angle dont you think).

Let's be fair minded, you come equipped with a book of stories and your tongue. You tell me that our universe came from somewhere and that the somewhere is really a spirit person who is the true author of the story book. You would have just unraveled before me a monster claim, not unlike the claim that you are the ruler of a country on the surface of the sun and that you possess a few sun vehicles in your backyard here on earth.

The bigger the nature of the claim, the easier it SHOULD be to demonstrate.

You can't continue to simply open the book and use your tongue to read it to me, especially if you're reading passages where men are showing other men demonstrations of the God.

Why should any SANE God expect me to believe lip service from people who would later be caught at gas stations sucking the pe)nises of young boys. Are you kidding me?

Weah96:


Let's be fair minded, you come equipped with a book of stories and your tongue. You tell me that our universe came from somewhere and that the somewhere is really a spirit person who is the true author of the story book. You would have just unraveled before me a monster claim, not unlike the claim that you are the ruler of a country on the surface of the sun and that you possess a few sun vehicles in your backyard here on earth.

The bigger the nature of the claim, the easier it SHOULD be to demonstrate.

You can't continue to simply open the book and use your tongue to read it to me, especially if you're reading passages where men are showing other men demonstrations of the God.

Why should any SANE God expect me to believe lip service from people who would later be caught at gas stations sucking the pe)nises of young boys. Are you kidding me?

No, you clearly arent fair minded and definately not seeing things from a more open perspective.....My evidence is man.... and that brings me bak to the fact that you have evaded my question yet again "Give me proof of your existence".......I have tried to be objective as much as possible...I never mentioned the Bible until i was prompted to do so. as a matter of fact, i have not presented the Bible as an evidence on this platform.....Stop moving in circles please

winner01:
No, you clearly arent fair minded and definately not seeing things from a more open perspective.....My evidence is man.... and that brings me bak to the fact that you have evaded my question yet again "Give me proof of your existence".......I have tried to be objective as much as possible...I never mentioned the Bible until i was prompted to do so. as a matter of fact, i have not presented the Bible as an evidence on this platform.....Stop moving in circles please

My comments are my proof, unless you think that you're speaking to a bot on the other end.

Weah96:


My comments are my proof, unless you think that you're speaking to a bot on the other end.

Did you just say "your comments are proof"......i sense confusion in your system.....if merely typed comments are proof of your existence, how much more a book containing unifying documents collated by over 40 authors from different centuries...I should call you an hypocrite because you do not want me to use this as proof but you want me to believe in a typed document.....

Lets go back to critical thinking...If you want me to believe your existence by your typed message alone, dont you think people communicate with other humans in their dreams. On this ground, your evidence does not hold water, try again.

You put in so much time and energy in trying not to believe in God and yet unknowingly still believing in an unknown God.

When you've held on so much to an opinion that you consider anyone with a different perspective deluded, then to me it's no longer just an opinion, it's a belief. Atheists, is a belief system of an unknown god. It's just pathetic because they're not aware of it.


They're like spoilt kids, testing their parents love just wanting to see if they actually care. So, you hear them say things like - I hate you (an atheist way of saying if you're my maker then your ways are foolish compared to mine) or you're not my father/mother (an atheist way of saying I don't believe in you and everything about you), and we all know how the circle goes....

Even if you deny your mama o, disown am o
E no change the fact say na she be your mother.....

Thoniameek:
You put in so much time and energy in trying not to believe in God and yet unknowingly still believing in an unknown God.

When you've held on so much to an opinion that you consider anyone with a different perspective deluded, then to me it's no longer just an opinion, it's a belief. Atheists, is a belief system of an unknown god. It's just pathetic because they're not aware of it.


They're like spoilt kids, testing their parents love just wanting to see if they actually care. So, you hear them say things like - I hate you (an atheist way of saying if you're my maker then your ways are foolish compared to mine) or you're not my father/mother (an atheist way of saying I don't believe in you and everything about you), and we all know how the circle goes....

Even if you deny your mama o, disown am o
E no change the fact say na she be your mother.....

This is a great piece my sister. So much encapsulated in very few words. bless you.

winner01:
Did you just say "your comments are proof"......i sense confusion in your system.....if merely typed comments are proof of your existence, how much more a book containing unifying documents collated by over 40 authors from different centuries...I should call you an hypocrite because you do not want me to use this as proof but you want me to believe in a typed document.....

Lets go back to critical thinking...If you want me to believe your existence by your typed message alone, dont you think people communicate with other humans in their dreams. On this ground, your evidence does not hold water, try again.

A book is proof of a human being, not God. Only human beings write books. I don't understand your dream reference. Are you running out of arguments?

Weah96:


A book is proof of a human being, not God. Only human beings write books. I don't understand your dream reference. Are you running out of arguments?

Human being huh?, God is also a being so what does it matter.....if you dont understand my dream/illusion references, meand i lost you a long time ago and i think we are done here......its the least i could do man so as to avoid a system breakdown......
but you could read up my arguments open-minded this time, if you can see my point, maybe we can then pick up from where we left.

winner01:
Human being huh?, God is also a being so what does it matter.....if you dont understand my dream/illusion references, meand i lost you a long time ago and i think we are done here......its the least i could do man so as to avoid a system breakdown......
but you could read up my arguments open-minded this time, if you can see my point, maybe we can then pick up from where we left.

You're being disingenuous. Is your God a human being? If not, you have zero reasons to expect be to believe he authored a book. Honest people won't say what they don't know.

Thoniameek:
You put in so much time and energy in trying not to believe in God and yet unknowingly still believing in an unknown God.

lol... you've gone deep in cognitive dissonance...between i that doesn't go to church nor sing songs nor listen to sermons nor pay tithes nor cram bible verses and you who does,who's putting more energy?

Using your logic...you must also be using a lot of time and energy to deny allah and the pillars of islam along with other religions,

When you've held on so much to an opinion that you consider anyone with a different perspective deluded, then to me it's no longer just an opinion, it's a belief. Atheists, is a belief system of an unknown god. It's just pathetic because they're not aware of it.

Atheism isn't an opinion...it's not affirming idea's but rejecting one...here's an idea of what i am talking about;

Let's say there's an open box with a shirt in it....now it's anyone's opinion what the length of it is in perspective to him/herself but there's another box but it's closed...you then proceed to say there's another shirt in the box of which i reject your claim because nobody has a justification for what's in the box....now have i expressed any opinion or rejected yours?

They're like spoilt kids, testing their parents love just wanting to see if they actually care. So, you hear them say things like - I hate you (an atheist way of saying if you're my maker then your ways are foolish compared to mine) or you're not my father/mother (an atheist way of saying I don't believe in you and everything about you), and we all know how the circle goes....

I get that you are comparing atheists to spoilt children here but how do you expect atheists to respond to you kindly when you label us spoilt children?...Anyways your logic is again far off....
When a kid says i hate you to his/her parent,he/she is usually referring to a living breathing physical being that he/she has seen,touched,heard and spoken to severally.While an atheist would call the actions like the various cat and mouse chases the god character in the bible does with humans and the devil as foolish...

Even if you deny your mama o, disown am o
E no change the fact say na she be your mother.....

You are right...anyone can still know who my mother is no matter my rejection of her by just comparing our DNA,but is there anything to confirm the existence let alone paternity of the christian god? NOPE ,just blind faith that has led to over 30,000 christian denominations....so why can't you all identify your mum/god? Or is the god split in over 30,000 parts and simultaneously communicating with everyone?

If equivocating atheism to a belief is the only way you can resolve your faith then you've already lost it by being a charlatan.

reallest:


Common u can do much more better dan dat,who need religion to know its not good to kill?

nonsense!!! The statement 'Killing innocent people is wrong' doesn't mean 'I don't like killing
innocent people. If the society say killing is Good, will you called its bad ? In the nazi camp, when the Jews population are on the risen, the nazi legalised killing of the Jews , will you called this law bad ?

winner01:
You say "Morality is what we agreed on"...you shot yourself in the leg here...You could safely say "morality is what has been agreed on for us"..by some people whose level of sanity and bias were probably not verified......

Morality has been passed down to us by our ancient ancestors, but i dare you to prove their yardstick for this so called "morality"..
Dont you think physical punishment for defaulters is unfair considering the fact that they have a different standpoint of morality..
It is tyrannical and odd to enforce some handpicked ancient laws in a proposed free thinking society. Fairness can only be attained if there is a general agreement of what morality is, this process must put into consideration ideas by people you have labelled "criminals"....
So please be objective as not to enforce your perception of morality on others.



And There was no rigmarole in my point, you speak of morals and ethics and culture and sorts but you failed to root out the basis of this morals, especially considering the facts that the stone age people set them in motion...
You are clearly bias to say that "we cherrypick condusive ones"....i mean who has made a human a judge over the affairs of another...In your objectivity, did you consider that it might not be condusive for me. That is simply unfairness and coercive.


The thing is that, i do not believe in a created deity i believe in an uncreated deity. Let me turn your question around and ask you to prove to me that your whole life isnt one big illusion.

Get this mr menesheh, as stup1d as it might sound...Rationality proves nothing except you can explain to me (not in gibberish) how a big bang in about three minutes transported matching matter over far distances to each other to form a very orderly environment. You have no evidence either....The difference between us is that i choose to use man as an evidence.....

And yes, Most renowned occultic groups share the same feelings with atheists towards the christian God... and the reason is not far fetched....
Please be meaningful,Atheists and cultists are "believers"... cultists believe in the devil, atheists believe that there is no God...

We can intelligently design our morality. In the process of intelligently designing our morality, we can obtain datas and past examples from any where so far as it perfect the objectivity of our contemporary perception of reality. The idea of importing already made moral laws that supposedly came from divine, which lacks our collective debates and discussions about its Validity to stand as our moral code. For instance, we now understand that slavery is unethical, but there are some divine law books that supported and gave directions on how one can buy his fellow humans as property, beat your property and enslave your property the more by giving him a wife, in the case of a male slave. Adopting such subjective morals as a standpoint for our moral values is preposterous.

I don't even know where you imported this idea of big bang, i don't know much about that. Postulating a deity because both of us didn't understand why there is something rather than nothing is fallacious appeal to ignorance. Using god to fill the gap of whatever thing you don't understand that exists is not gonna compel you to start searching for any clue on the real course. The concept "god" is archaic method of solving puzzles while science is the contemporary method of solving those puzzles and it is working like crazy.

Lastly, whats the meaning of uncreated deity

malvisguy212:
nonsense!!! The statement 'Killing innocent people is wrong' doesn't mean 'I don't like killing
innocent people. If the society say killing is Good, will you called its bad ? In the nazi camp, when the Jews population are on the risen, the nazi legalised killing of the Jews , will you called this law bad ?

When your God and his prophets organized the killing of others in the bible because he wanted to take over their land that was flowing with milk and give it to his chosen people, honey did you call the action bad?

dalaman:


When your God and his prophets organized the killing of others in the bible because he wanted to take over their land that was flowing with milk and give it to his chosen people, honey did you call the action bad?

what was the reason for this killing ?go back and read the story again, beginning from the exedus era.

malvisguy212:
what was the reason for this killing ?go back and read the story again, beginning from the exedus era.

The reason was because he had already promised them the land.

4"On this day in the month of Abib, you are about to go forth. 5"It shall be when the LORD brings you to the land of the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Amorite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, which He swore to your fathers to give you, a land flowing with milk and honey, that you shall observe this rite in this month. Exodus 13:4-5.

@dalaman. So God organised the killing of people because he needed to steal their land? Really? Only a man being controlled by satan can lay this accusation on God. Satan let u see what wrong and sin people commit, but when the consequences come, he tells u that God is wicked.
You are very funny my friend.
Their land? Really? Between God and man who owns anything on earth? We were all born and met these things here, and die off and leave them here. If its possible for man to create his own land, why hasn't man done that?
The land flowing with milk and horney. How did you know the land is flowing with Milk and honey? Who put the milk and honey in a dry rocky desert? How will u know that there's milk and honey in the land if he who put it there didn't say so?
If you decide to use my property, and I allow you. But you went on to abuse and misuse it, I have every right to take it from u and give to whomever I chose.
Satan sure has many followers.

Anas09:
@dalaman. So God organised the killing of people because he needed to steal their land? Really? Only a man being controlled by satan can lay this accusation on God. Satan let u see what wrong and sin people commit, but when the consequences come, he tells u that God is wicked.
You are very funny my friend.
Their land? Really? Between God and man who owns anything on earth? We were all born and met these things here, and die off and leave them here. If its possible for man to create his own land, why hasn't man done that?
The land flowing with milk and horney. How did you know the land is flowing with Milk and honey? Who put the milk and honey in a dry rocky desert? How will u know that there's milk and honey in the land if he who put it there didn't say so?
If you decide to use my property, and I allow you. But you went on to abuse and misuse it, I have every right to take it from u and give to whomever I chose.
Satan sure has many followers.

Who is or what is satan? How does he look like and what language does he speak? Have you meet him before? Stop spewing nonsense. And you know that the land belongs to Yahweh? The land belongs to the Canaanite, Amorite and Hitite Gods. Yahweh only stole it from them since he couldn't create another one for his chosen people.

You say "our contemporary perception of reality"....mr menesheh there is no "we", i simple mean there is no "us"....I speak for the people labelled "odd" in the society when i say this. It is disgraceful enough that you use the word "our" when no collective agreement has been reached.
Equity demands that you consider what a rapist, murderer, robber and their likes wants before drawing an inference from the concensus....
You forget that you force your own good "imported moral laws" down the throats of a supposed "rebellious minority"...and trying to tell me that i believe in already made imported stone age laws is like a pot calling the kettle black. Last time i checked, the present generations perspective of morality was not reached by a general concensus, it was imported from the ancient.
It is even more preposterous that you tell me about morals mr menesheh.


Ohhh.... you alienate the big bang theory, you are even more ignorant than i thought...then what do you know about mr menesheh You do no even understand how or why you exist.. Thats the height of ignorance..

And you talk about "searching for clues"....I could search for a clue with a ritualist on how to get rich quick, i mean he'll give me a clue, right..
what are you even talking about? science? man created science. but dont you think he might have the same creative nature/image of God.

Ill answer all your questions when you answer the simple question i poised to you earlier "Give me meaningful proof of your existence"

dalaman:


The reason was because he had already promised them the land.

4"On this day in the month of Abib, you are about to go forth. 5"It shall be when the LORD brings you to the land of the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Amorite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, which He swore to your fathers to give you, a land flowing with milk and honey, that you shall observe this rite in this month. Exodus 13:4-5.

Deuteronomy 9:5
is NOT FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS OR FOR THE UPRIGHTNESS OF YOUR HEART that you are going to possess their land,
but it is because of the wickedness of
these nations that the LORD your God
is driving them out before you, in
order to confirm the oath which the
LORD swore to your fathers, to
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

One thing you should know is this , the majority of this people worship idols and the children of isreal had just began as a nation, soo,this people has the chance to hear God word and repent but there evil continue the more,
Okay, how "wicked" could those people
have been? How about killing their own
sons and daughters by burning them in
sacrifices to their gods:

Deuteronomy 12:31
"You shall not behave thus toward the
LORD your God, for every abominable
act which the LORD hates they have
done for their gods; for they even
burn their sons and daughters in the
fire to their gods.

Maybe atheists believe that killing your children is not all bad. After all, killing viable pre-born babies is legal in this country (it's called a choice, a.k.a. abortion). For these reasons (and others5), God ordered the destruction of
the peoples whom the Israelites
dispossessed.

winner01:
You say "our contemporary perception of reality"....mr menesheh there is no "we", i simple mean there is no "us"....I speak for the people labelled "odd" in the society when i say this. It is disgraceful enough that you use the word "our" when no collective agreement has been reached.
Equity demands that you consider what a rapist, murderer, robber and their likes wants before drawing an inference from the concensus....

You seems not following my argument or naive to where am coming from. Your follow-up comments is always out of context to my explanations. Rigmarole. Am wilt off on this topic.

Ohhh.... you alienate the big bang theory, you are even more ignorant than i thought...then what do you know about mr menesheh You do no even understand how or why you exist.. Thats the height of ignorance..

Pretty much ignorant. You know much, tell me more? What's big bang. Does it explain anything at all about the universe.