chibecanglobal:
Ask yourself why relgion keep changing over time.
Or have not you noticed that what are practised today as world religions are not same with what ppl practiced say 2500-2800 years ago?
Why is it that with all our religionism in the past we could not make enough advancement as we have done in the last couple of centuries when reason started to take its rightful place in the life of man.
Can you confidently say that religion is agreement with all scientific discoveries that man has been able to achieve thru the power of reason?

1. Man has not advanced to anywhere. He has moved forward in some areas and moved backward in other areas.

2. What reason took rightful place?

3. I don't understand what you mean by religion being in agreement with all scientific discovery.

4. Science was practically invented by the Catholic Church. It also sponsored and nurtured it. The Church founded Europe's first universities. Catholics like Thomas Aquinas and Francis Bacon contributed to developing the scientific model. Father Georges Lemaitre was the first to propound the big bang theory. Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744–1829) prefigured the theory of evolution with Lamarckism; Friar Gregor Mendel (1822–84) pioneered genetics. Many pioneers in science were Catholic lay and even clergymen.

The Catholic Church built the civilization you value.

plaetton:

Lol.
You freely and independently cling to what You have been fully brainwashed to believe.
You cling to the Catholic cult/church because it has become your only comfort zone,without which you have no compass.
That is a classical definition of a brainwashed person.

Now you're the one trying to brainwash me and force your doctrine down my throat.

Why are you hysteric?

The Catholic Church never did this to me.

It only showed me the way...I found, on my own that it was true, and I freely choose to be Catholic.

plaetton:


Bullshyte in capital letters.

How can you be sooo boldly ignorant?

An organised religion, the Catholic cult, Invented
, honed and perpertuated all the manifest evils of religion.

The Catholic cult sired all the dysfunctions in the religious marketplace.

Every evil we see today in religion, the Catholic cult Invented it.

Your typical ogogoro joint talk...

"Your papa dey crase," "your mama dey mad..."

NO PROOF!

Next.

plaetton:


What a liar and hypocrite You are.

I guess you have never heard of scandals involving Catholic priests having indiscriminate sexual or. Gies with underage boys right inside churchesy, even in the hallowed chambers of the Rvatican? E
A Catholic should be the last person to accuse others of sexual immorality. Your cult has a very very long history in the area of sexual perversions, Wars, mass murders, torture and fraud.
Were You born yesterday?

People who do those are doing contrary to what the religion teaches.

All peoples do bad things...but the Catholic Church teaches against these things...so a Catholic can boldly reprimand those who do these, even if they are Catholics.

That's the difference. Atheists molest little boys and justify it...they murder and justify it...

So I didn't lie. There was never civilization without religion...

...while Atheism has only ever brought death and destruction to the world. nothing good.

plaetton:


Absolute nonsense, with all due respect.

You have spoken like a true Nigerian. As long as You look after your pretty little comforts, the rest of the society can go to hell.

If the Europeans can emasculate religion and Papal power, and could emasculate the absolute monarchies, then then there is no mental infestation that cannot be unyoked.

The problem with religion in Africa is that we have been culturally genocided long ago. So these useless toxic religious garbabe fills in the gaps where our self identity should have normally resided.
An African Catholic, for example, is like the mythical zombie, neither fully dead nor fully alive. No self identity and no appreciation of cultural heritage and origins.

I have an identity. I'm a child of God.

What is your identity? Does it include copying the Europeans?

How are you more alive than a Catholic?

Lest I forget, you're yet to answer all these:

italo:

I cannot blame the Church for that...I blame the individuals who refused to follow Church teaching.

However, when I look at the overall picture, the Church and its hierarchy have done faaaaaar more good than the evil they have done.

Can you please, substantiate the bold by listing some of the numerous evils that has been done by the Roman Catholic Church?

You always talk about the good done by the Roman Catholic Church and never speak of any evil act even when you are aware of it as your post reveals.

italo:

Science was practically invented by the Catholic Church.

Are you saying Science started just about 2000 years ago and that there was no science before the Catholic Church?

Besides, when exactly did the Catholic Church 'invent' this 'science' you speak about?

italo:


4. Science was practically invented by the Catholic Church.

In case you don't know the meaning of invent.

invent - /ɪnˈvɛnt/
verb
1. create or design (something that has not
existed before); be the originator of.

When was science 'invented' by the roman catholic church?

italo:

Okay, from your epistle;
1. Prove the bold that those percentages of
christians were Roman Catholics.
2. Prove that Kepler and Boyle were roman
catholics.

You're yet to prove the claims above.


You've only been answering irrelevant things you weren't asked, alleging false things against me and ascribing other people's work as that of the RCC...and claiming you're tired to list the RCC's evil acts.

You seem to enjoy self deceit and hypocrisy...perhaps, it is your hobby.

italo:
Science was practically invented by the Catholic Church.

adsonstone:



Are you saying Science started just about 2000 years ago and that there was no science before the Catholic Church?

Besides, when exactly did the Catholic Church 'invent' this 'science' you speak about?

laughing seriously.......even from noah's time, science and technology has been in existence.

chibecanglobal:
Let us all go back to reason to regain our glory as a people.
That is the true salvation we need as a people.
That is the emancipation every living soul needs.
That is the sure way of meeting "God"

1. What problem do you have with religion?
2. What do you mean by 'true salvation' as used in your post?
3. Who is this 'God' you're referring to?
4. Who in history has found this 'God' in the way above? Examples please.

Thanks.

adsonstone:

Are you saying Science started just about 2000 years ago and that there was no science before the Catholic Church?

Besides, when exactly did the Catholic Church 'invent' this 'science' you speak about?

In modern usage "science" most often refers to a way of pursuing knowledge, not only the knowledge itself. In the 17th and 18th centuries scientists increasingly sought to formulate knowledge in terms of laws of nature. Over the course of the 19th century, the word "science" became increasingly associated with the scientific method itself, as a disciplined way to study the natural world, including physics, chemistry, geology and biology. It is in the 19th century also that the term scientist began to be applied to those who sought knowledge and understanding of nature.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

Edit
Roger Bacon was inspired by the writings of Grosseteste. In his account of a method, Bacon described a repeating cycle of observation, hypothesis, experimentation, and the need for independent verification. He recorded the way he had conducted his experiments in precise detail, perhaps with the idea that others could reproduce and independently test his results.

About 1256 he joined the Franciscan Order and became subject to the Franciscan statute forbidding Friars from publishing books or pamphlets without specific approval. After the accession of Pope Clement IV in 1265, the Pope granted Bacon a special commission to write to him on scientific matters. In eighteen months he completed three large treatises, the Opus Majus, Opus Minus, and Opus Tertium which he sent to the Pope.[45] William Whewell has called Opus Majus at once the Encyclopaedia and Organon of the 13th century.[46]

Part I (pp. 1–22) treats of the four causes of error: authority, custom, the opinion of the unskilled many, and the concealment of real ignorance by a pretense of knowledge.
Part VI (pp. 445–477) treats of experimental science, domina omnium scientiarum. There are two methods of knowledge: the one by argument, the other by experience. Mere argument is never sufficient; it may decide a question, but gives no satisfaction or certainty to the mind, which can only be convinced by immediate inspection or intuition, which is what experience gives.
Experimental science, which in the Opus Tertium (p. 46) is distinguished from the speculative sciences and the operative arts, is said to have three great prerogatives over all sciences:
It verifies their conclusions by direct experiment;
It discovers truths which they could never reach;
It investigates the secrets of nature, and opens to us a knowledge of past and future.
Roger Bacon illustrated his method by an investigation into the nature and cause of the rainbow, as a specimen of inductive research

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_scientific_method

That is how the Catholic Church invented Science, which in modern sense, refers to the Scientific method.

Thank you.

adsonstone:


Can you please, substantiate the bold by listing some of the numerous evils that has been done by the Roman Catholic Church?

I will start by listing some of the good that The Catholic Church and its heirachy has done.

And wait for you to tell me if they are truly good or not.

From wikipedia:

The role of Christianity in civilization has been intricately intertwined with the history and formation of Western society. Throughout its long history, the Christian Church has been a major source of social services like schooling and medical care; inspiration for art, culture and philosophy; and influential player in politics and religion. In various ways it has sought to affect Western attitudes to vice and virtue in diverse fields. It has, over many centuries, promulgated the teachings of Jesus within the Western world.

Festivals like Easter and Christmas are marked as public holidays; the Gregorian Calendar has been adopted internationally as the civil calendar; and the calendar itself is measured from the assumed date of Jesus's incarnation.

The cultural influence of the Church has been vast. Church scholars preserved literacy in Western Europe following the Fall of Rome.[1] During the Middle Ages, the Church rose to replace the Roman Empire as the unifying force in Europe. The cathedrals of that age remain among the most iconic feats of architecture produced by Western civilization. Many of Europe's universities were also founded by the church at that time. Many historians state that universities and cathedral schools were a continuation of the interest in learning promoted by monasteries.[2] The university is generally regarded as an institution that has its origin in the Medieval Christian setting.[3][4] The Reformation brought an end to religious unity in the West, but the Renaissance masterpieces produced by Catholic artists like Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and Raphael at that time remain among the most celebrated works of art ever produced. Similarly, Christian sacred music by composers like Pachelbel, Vivaldi, Bach, Handel, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert and Verdi is among the most admired classical music in the Western canon.

The Bible and Christian theology have also strongly influenced Western philosophers and political activists. The teachings of Jesus, such as the Parable of the Good Samaritan, are among the important sources for modern notions of Human Rights and the welfare measures commonly provided by governments in the West. Long held Christian teachings on sexuality and marriage and family life have also been both influential and (in recent times) controversial.

Christianity played a role in ending practices such as human sacrifice, slavery,[5] infanticide and polygamy.[6] Christianity in general affected the status of women by condemning infanticide (female infants were more likely to be killed), divorce, incest, polygamy, birth control, abortion and marital infidelity.[7] While official Church teaching[8] considers women and men to be complementary (equal and different), some modern "advocates of ordination of women and other feminists" argue that teachings attributed to St. Paul and those of the Fathers of the Church and Scholastic theologians advanced the notion of a divinely ordained female inferiority.[9] Nevertheless, women have played prominent roles in Western history through as part of the church, particularly in education and healthcare, but also as influential theologians and mystics.

Some of the things that Christianity is commonly criticized for include the oppression of women, condemnation of homosexuality, colonialism, and various other violence. Christian ideas have been used both to support and to end slavery as an institution. The criticism of Christianity has come from the various religious and non-religious groups around the world, some of whom were themselves Christians

adsonstone:


You always talk about the good done by the Roman Catholic Church and never speak of any evil act even when you are aware of it as your post reveals.

That is because I always speak in defense of the Church after its accusers have leveled allegations, both true and false.

If I say your mother is an evil perpetual liar because she told a lie, wouldn't you tell me how she is a good woman who takes good care of her family?

Would you need to repeat that she lied?

Adsonstone, more from wiki:


Early Church Fathers advocated against polygamy, homosexuality, transvestism, and incest.[41] Historically, Christian churches have regarded homosexual sex as sinful, based on the Catholic understanding of the natural law and traditional interpretations of certain passages in the Bible.

Early Church Fathers advocated against polygamy, abortion, infanticide, child abuse, homosexuality, transvestism, and incest.[41] Although some Christian ideals were adopted by the Roman Empire, there is little evidence to link most of these laws to Church influence.[48] After the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as the official religion, however, the link between Christian teachings and Roman family laws became more clear.[49]

For example, Church teaching heavily influenced the legal concept of marriage.[50] During the Gregorian Reform, the Church developed and codified a view of marriage as a sacrament.[17] In a departure from societal norms, Church law required the consent of both parties before a marriage could be performed[41] and established a minimum age for marriage.[51] The elevation of marriage to a sacrament also made the union a binding contract, with dissolutions overseen by Church authorities.[52] Although the Church abandoned tradition to allow women the same rights as men to dissolve a marriage,[53] in practice, when an accusation of infidelity was made, men were granted dissolutions more frequently than women



In opposition to this view, some historians of science, including non-Catholics such as J.L. Heilbron,[75] A.C. Crombie, David Lindberg,[76] Edward Grant, Thomas Goldstein,[77] and Ted Davis, have argued that the Church had a significant, positive influence on the development of Western civilization. They hold that, not only did monks save and cultivate the remnants of ancient civilization during the barbarian invasions, but that the Church promoted learning and science through its sponsorship of many universities which, under its leadership, grew rapidly in Europe in the 11th and 12th centuries. St.Thomas Aquinas, the Church's "model theologian," argued that reason is in harmony with faith, and that reason can contribute to a deeper understanding of revelation, and so encouraged intellectual development.[78] The Church's priest-scientists, many of whom were Jesuits, have been among the leading lights in astronomy, genetics, geomagnetism, meteorology, seismology, and solar physics, becoming some of the "fathers" of these sciences. Examples include important churchmen such as the Augustinian abbot Gregor Mendel (pioneer in the study of genetics), Roger Bacon (a Franciscan friar who was one of the early advocates of the scientific method), and Belgian priest Georges Lemaître (the first to propose the Big Bang theory). Other notable priest scientists have included Albertus Magnus, Robert Grosseteste, Nicholas Steno, Francesco Grimaldi, Giambattista Riccioli, Roger Boscovich, and Athanasius Kircher. Even more numerous are Catholic laity involved in science:Henri Becquerel who discovered radioactivity; Galvani, Volta, Ampere, Marconi, pioneers in electricity and telecommunications; Lavoisier, "father of modern chemistry"; Vesalius, founder of modern human anatomy; and Cauchy, one of the mathematicians who laid the rigorous foundations of calculus.

Many well-known historical figures who influenced Western science considered themselves Christian such as Copernicus,[79] Galileo,[80] Kepler,[81] Newton[82] and Boyle.[83]

According to 100 Years of Nobel Prize (2005), a review of Nobel prizes awarded between 1901 and 2000, 65.4% of Nobel Prize Laureates, have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference (423 prizes).[84] Overall, Christians have won a total of 78.3% of all the Nobel Prizes in Peace,[85] 72.5% in Chemistry, 65.3% in Physics,[85] 62% in Medicine,[85] 54% in Economics[85] and 49.5% of all Literature awards.[85]

Adsonstone, more from wiki,

Francisco de Vitoria, a disciple of Thomas Aquinas and a Catholic thinker who studied the issue regarding the human rights of colonized natives, is recognized by the United Nations as a father of international law, and now also by historians of economics and democracy as a leading light for the West's democracy and rapid economic development.[124]

Joseph Schumpeter, an economist of the twentieth century, referring to the Scholastics, wrote, "it is they who come nearer than does any other group to having been the ‘founders’ of scientific economics."[125] Other economists and historians, such as Raymond de Roover, Marjorie Grice-Hutchinson, and Alejandro Chafuen, have also made similar statements. Historian Paul Legutko of Stanford University said the Catholic Church is "at the center of the development of the values, ideas, science, laws, and institutions which constitute what we call Western civilization."[126]


The Catholic Church has contributed to society through its social doctrine which has guided leaders to promote social justice and providing care to the sick and poor. In orations such as his Sermon on the Mount and stories such as The Good Samaritan, Jesus called on followers to worship God, act without violence or prejudice and care for the sick, hungry and poor. Such teachings are the foundation of Catholic Church involvement in social justice, hospitals and health care.

Medieval period Edit
The Catholic Church established a hospital system in Medieval Europe that was different from the merely reciprocal hospitality of the Greeks and family-based obligations of the Romans. These hospitals were established to cater to "particular social groups marginalized by poverty, sickness, and age," according to historian of hospitals, Guenter Risse.[139]

The Industrial Revolution brought many concerns about the deteriorating working and living conditions of urban workers. Influenced by the German Bishop Wilhelm Emmanuel Freiherr von Ketteler, in 1891 Pope Leo XIII published the encyclical Rerum novarum, which set in context Catholic social teaching in terms that rejected socialism but advocated the regulation of working conditions. Rerum Novarum argued for the establishment of a living wage and the right of workers to form trade unions.[140]

Quadragesimo anno was issued by Pope Pius XI, on 15 May 1931, 40 years after Rerum novarum. Unlike Leo, who addressed mainly the condition of workers, Pius XI concentrated on the ethical implications of the social and economic order. He called for the reconstruction of the social order based on the principle of solidarity and subsidiarity.[141] He noted major dangers for human freedom and dignity, arising from unrestrained capitalism and totalitarian communism.

The social teachings of Pope Pius XII repeat these teachings, and apply them in greater detail not only to workers and owners of capital, but also to other professions such as politicians, educators, house-wives, farmers bookkeepers, international organizations, and all aspects of life including the military. Going beyond Pius XI, he also defined social teachings in the areas of medicine, psychology, sport, TV, science, law and education. Pius XII was called "the Pope of Technology for his willingness and ability to examine the social implications of technological advances. The dominant concern was the continued rights and dignity of the individual. With the beginning of the space age at the end of his pontificate, Pius XII explored the social implications of space exploration and satellites on the social fabric of humanity asking for a new sense of community and solidarity in light of existing papal teachings on subsidiarity.[142]

The Methodist Church, among other Christian denominations, was responsible for the establishment of hospitals, universities, orphanages, soup kitchens, and schools to follow Jesus's command to spread the Good News and serve all people.[143][144] In Western nations, governments have increasingly taken up funding and organisation of health services for the poor but the Church still maintains a massive network of health care providers across the world. In the West, these institutions are increasingly run by lay-people after centuries of being run by priests, nuns and brothers, In 2009, Catholic hospitals in the USA received approximately one of every six patients, according to the Catholic Health Association.[145] Catholic Health Australia is the largest non-government provider grouping of health, community and aged care services, representing about 10% of the health sector.[146] In 1968, nuns or priests were the chief executives of 770 of America's 796 Catholic hospitals. By 2011, they presided over 8 of 636 hospitals.[145]

As with schooling, women have played a vital role in running and staffing Christian care institutions - in Methodist hospitals, deaconesses who trained as nurses staffed the hospitals,[144] and in Catholic hospitals, through religious institutes like the Sisters of Mercy, Little Sisters of the Poor and Sisters of St. Mary - and teaching and nursing have been seen as "women's vocations". Seeking to define the role played by religious in hospitals through American history, the New York Times noted that nuns were trained to "see Jesus in the face of every patient" and that:[145]

“ Although their influence is often described as intangible, the nuns kept their hospitals focused on serving the needy and brought a spiritual reassurance that healing would prevail over profit, authorities on Catholic health care say. ”

The number of Catholic institutions as of 2000[147]
Institutions #
Parishes and missions 408,637
Primary and secondary schools 125,016
Universities 1,046
Hospitals 5,853
Orphanages 8,695
Homes for the elderly and handicapped 13,933
Dispensaries, leprosaries, nurseries and other institutions 74,936
Missionary activity for the Catholic Church has always incorporated education of evangelized peoples as part of its social ministry. History shows that in evangelized lands, the first people to operate schools were Roman Catholics. In some countries, the Church is the main provider of education or significantly supplements government forms of education. Presently, the Church operates the world's largest non-governmental school system.[148] Many of Western Civilization's most influential universities were founded by the Catholic Church.

From 19th century foundations, the Catholic education system in Australia has grown to be the second biggest sector after government schools with around 21 per cent of all secondary school enrolments.[166] The Church has established primary, secondary and tertiary educational institutions. St Mary MacKillop was a 19th-century Australian nun who founded an educational religious institute, the Sisters of St Joseph of the Sacred Heart, and in 2010 became the first Australian to be canonised as a saint.[167] Catholic education is also significant in neighbouring South Pacific nations: 11% of New Zealand students attend Catholic schools

By the close of the 19th century, European powers had managed to gain control of most of the African interior.[74] The new rulers introduced cash-based economies which created an enormous demand for literacy and a western education—a demand which for most Africans could only be satisfied by Christian missionaries.[74] Catholic missionaries followed colonial governments into Africa, and built schools, hospitals, monasteries and churches.[74]

With a high number of adult baptisms, the Church is growing faster in Africa than anywhere else.[169] It also operates a greater number of Catholic schools per parish here (3:1) than in other areas of the world.

In India, over 25,000 schools and colleges are operated by the Church

plaetton:


What a liar and hypocrite You are.

I guess you have never heard of scandals involving Catholic priests having indiscriminate sexual or. Gies with underage boys right inside churchesy, even in the hallowed chambers of the Rvatican? E
A Catholic should be the last person to accuse others of sexual immorality. Your cult has a very very long history in the area of sexual perversions, Wars, mass murders, torture and fraud.
Were You born yesterday?

Spanish Inquisition, the crusades, World War 2 etc.

Please tell me another organization that does one-hundredth of those.

scarred9jan:


Spanish Inquisition, the crusades, World War 2 etc.

Spanish inquisition was done by the Spanish monarchy, not the Church.

Crusades was a just war to stop muslims who attacked the Holy Land and pilgrims, committing the kind of atrocities that ISIS are committing today. The crusades were a good thing. Thanks to those wars, you are enjoying the civilization that the Church practically built today. Will you like to live under Boko Haram...or ISIS? or will you like a crusade against them?

World War two was a war among nations. Germany, Allied Forces, Japan, Italy etc. Are you going to blame the Church for the Nigerian Civil war too?

italo:

I will start by listing some of the good that The Catholic Church and its heirachy has done.

And wait for you to tell me if they are truly good or not.

From wikipedia:

The role of Christianity in civilization has been intricately intertwined with the history and formation of Western society. Throughout its long history, the Christian Church has been a major source of social services like schooling and medical care; inspiration for art, culture and philosophy; and influential player in politics and religion. In various ways it has sought to affect Western attitudes to vice and virtue in diverse fields. It has, over many centuries, promulgated the teachings of Jesus within the Western world.

Festivals like Easter and Christmas are marked as public holidays; the Gregorian Calendar has been adopted internationally as the civil calendar; and the calendar itself is measured from the assumed date of Jesus's incarnation.

The cultural influence of the Church has been vast. Church scholars preserved literacy in Western Europe following the Fall of Rome.[1] During the Middle Ages, the Church rose to replace the Roman Empire as the unifying force in Europe. The cathedrals of that age remain among the most iconic feats of architecture produced by Western civilization. Many of Europe's universities were also founded by the church at that time. Many historians state that universities and cathedral schools were a continuation of the interest in learning promoted by monasteries.[2] The university is generally regarded as an institution that has its origin in the Medieval Christian setting.[3][4] The Reformation brought an end to religious unity in the West, but the Renaissance masterpieces produced by Catholic artists like Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and Raphael at that time remain among the most celebrated works of art ever produced. Similarly, Christian sacred music by composers like Pachelbel, Vivaldi, Bach, Handel, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert and Verdi is among the most admired classical music in the Western canon.

The Bible and Christian theology have also strongly influenced Western philosophers and political activists. The teachings of Jesus, such as the Parable of the Good Samaritan, are among the important sources for modern notions of Human Rights and the welfare measures commonly provided by governments in the West. Long held Christian teachings on sexuality and marriage and family life have also been both influential and (in recent times) controversial.

Christianity played a role in ending practices such as human sacrifice, slavery,[5] infanticide and polygamy.[6] Christianity in general affected the status of women by condemning infanticide (female infants were more likely to be killed), divorce, incest, polygamy, birth control, abortion and marital infidelity.[7] While official Church teaching[8] considers women and men to be complementary (equal and different), some modern "advocates of ordination of women and other feminists" argue that teachings attributed to St. Paul and those of the Fathers of the Church and Scholastic theologians advanced the notion of a divinely ordained female inferiority.[9] Nevertheless, women have played prominent roles in Western history through as part of the church, particularly in education and healthcare, but also as influential theologians and mystics.

Some of the things that Christianity is commonly criticized for include the oppression of women, condemnation of homosexuality, colonialism, and various other violence. Christian ideas have been used both to support and to end slavery as an institution. The criticism of Christianity has come from the various religious and non-religious groups around the world, some of whom were themselves Christians

All of what you mentioned above is true and good, including the body that participated... It's Christianity, not necessarily Roman Catholicism.

Prebysterians, Anglicans e.t.c are well known to have ended sacrificial killings, slavery and many other vices in so many regions.

Many other good related to the ones you mentioned were brought about by non-Christian bodies.


Now, having acknowledged these acts as good, will you now list the evils?

italo:

That is because I always speak in defense of the Church after its accusers have leveled allegations, both true and false.

If I say your mother is an evil perpetual liar because she told a lie, wouldn't you tell me how she is a good woman who takes good care of her family?

Would you need to repeat that she lied?

First, will be honest enough to acknowledge that she lied if she truly did...I wouldn't act in hypocrisy.

I have never seen you acknowledge any evil alleged against the Roman Catholic Church as true (even when your post suggests some are true allegations) neither have I ever seen/heard you state any evil the Catholic Church has done or has had a hand in.

That is the reason I have asked you to substantiate your statement in my post above.
Your post reveals that you're aware that the Catholic Church does or has done some evil but you're ever silent about it. That's simply hypocrisy.


So, would you be honest enough to list some evils just as you listed some good?

@adsonstone,

All of what you mentioned above is true and good, including the body that participated... It's Christianity, not necessarily Roman Catholicism.

Prebysterians, Anglicans e.t.c are well known to have ended sacrificial killings, slavery and many other vices in so many regions.

Many other good related to the ones you mentioned were brought about by non-Christian bodies.


Now, having acknowledged these acts as good, will you now list the evils?

FAIL! "Christianity" in the article was essentially referring to the Catholic Church. Didn't you see the mention of introduction of Easter, Christmas, Gregorian Calendar, Catholic artists and musicians, medieval Cathedrals, "official teaching" etc. The whole page is a redirect for "The role of Catholic church in western civilization."

Where the article referred to protestants it was explicit in stating it. E.g the reformation.


When you read the whole page, you'd see that Christianity referred to Catholicism, mainly.

Now you shamelessly want to take the glory of another and ascribe it to yourself.

Ok...Show me the official teaching of the Church as mentioned in the article!

First, will be honest enough to acknowledge that she lied if she truly did...I wouldn't act in hypocrisy.

I have never seen you acknowledge any evil alleged against the Roman Catholic Church as true (even when your post suggests some are true allegations) neither have I ever seen/heard you state any evil the Catholic Church has done or has had a hand in.

That is the reason I have asked you to substantiate your statement in my post above.
Your post reveals that you're aware that the Catholic Church does or has done some evil but you're ever silent about it. That's simply hypocrisy.

So, would you be honest enough to list some evils just as you listed some good?

Maybe you should mention the evils, I can't think of any now. I'm tired. I shouldn't be doing your work for you.

I haven't even finished mentioning the good things.

And I also want you to mention the good and bad that your Deeper Life shop has done for the world...


let us see and compare...and also so that you'll see how tiring it is...otherwise you're hypocritical.

Infact, Scientific Method has been around before the advent of Roman catholicism.

Tell me more about how roman catholicism invented science...

italo:



In modern usage "science" most often refers to a way of pursuing knowledge, not only the knowledge itself. In the 17th and 18th centuries scientists increasingly sought to formulate knowledge in terms of laws of nature. Over the course of the 19th century, the word "science" became increasingly associated with the scientific method itself, as a disciplined way to study the natural world, including physics, chemistry, geology and biology. It is in the 19th century also that the term scientist began to be applied to those who sought knowledge and understanding of nature.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

Edit
Roger Bacon was inspired by the writings of Grosseteste. In his account of a method, Bacon described a repeating cycle of observation, hypothesis, experimentation, and the need for independent verification. He recorded the way he had conducted his experiments in precise detail, perhaps with the idea that others could reproduce and independently test his results.

About 1256 he joined the Franciscan Order and became subject to the Franciscan statute forbidding Friars from publishing books or pamphlets without specific approval. After the accession of Pope Clement IV in 1265, the Pope granted Bacon a special commission to write to him on scientific matters. In eighteen months he completed three large treatises, the Opus Majus, Opus Minus, and Opus Tertium which he sent to the Pope.[45] William Whewell has called Opus Majus at once the Encyclopaedia and Organon of the 13th century.[46]

Part I (pp. 1–22) treats of the four causes of error: authority, custom, the opinion of the unskilled many, and the concealment of real ignorance by a pretense of knowledge.
Part VI (pp. 445–477) treats of experimental science, domina omnium scientiarum. There are two methods of knowledge: the one by argument, the other by experience. Mere argument is never sufficient; it may decide a question, but gives no satisfaction or certainty to the mind, which can only be convinced by immediate inspection or intuition, which is what experience gives.
Experimental science, which in the Opus Tertium (p. 46) is distinguished from the speculative sciences and the operative arts, is said to have three great prerogatives over all sciences:
It verifies their conclusions by direct experiment;
It discovers truths which they could never reach;
It investigates the secrets of nature, and opens to us a knowledge of past and future.
Roger Bacon illustrated his method by an investigation into the nature and cause of the rainbow, as a specimen of inductive research

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_scientific_method

That is how the Catholic Church invented Science, which in modern sense, refers to the Scientific method.

Thank you.

Nice try Mr.
...but sorry, that does not tell that science was 'invented' by the roman catholic church.

Is there a need for you to be educated on the origin of science?

I think there a need because it seems you have opted to be ignorant of it.

Science has existed before Roger Bacon, Grosseteste or even any 'pope' or catholic priest....tell me more about how Catholicism invented science....or you want to rewrite history?

italo:

4. Science was practically invented by the Catholic Church.

In case you don't know the meaning of invent.
invent - /ɪnˈvɛnt/ verb 1. create or design (something that has not existed before); be the originator of.

italo:
@adsonstone,


FAIL! "Christianity" in the article was essentially referring to the Catholic Church. Didn't you see the mention of introduction of Easter, Christmas, Gregorian Calendar, Catholic artists and musicians, medieval Cathedrals, "official teaching" etc. The whole page is a redirect for "The role of Catholic church in western civilization."

Where the article referred to protestants it was explicit in stating it. E.g the reformation.


When you read the whole page, you'd see that Christianity referred to Catholicism, mainly.

Now you shamelessly want to take the glory of another and ascribe it to yourself.

Ok...Show me the official teaching of the Church as mentioned in the article!

From all your stories of good by the roman catholic church comes this;

"The Methodist Church, among other Christian denominations, was responsible for the establishment of hospitals, universities, orphanages, soup kitchens, and schools to follow Jesus's command to spread the Good
News and serve all people."

Now who is 'shamelessly' trying to take someone else's glory?

....or maybe these ones too are roman catholics....

My point in all these 'good deeds' is that many other bodies do them...even non christian bodies, so you need not ascribe it all to roman catholicism.

So, would you be honest enough to list some evils just as you have listed some good?

Or do you want to keep embracing hypocrisy in public?

italo:

Maybe you should mention the evils, I can't think of any now. I'm tired. I shouldn't be doing your work for you.

I haven't even finished mentioning the good things.

And I also want you to mention the good and bad that your Deeper Life shop has done for the world...


let us see and compare...and also so that you'll see how tiring it is...otherwise you're hypocritical.

...but your post reveals you know them...

Anyway, I'll gladly wait for you to get some rest and think about the evils and post them at your convenient time.

After you post the evils, then I can post the good Deeper life has done.

italo:

I will start by listing some of the good that The Catholic Church and its heirachy has done.

And wait for you to tell me if they are truly good or not.

From wikipedia:

The role of Christianity in civilization has been intricately intertwined with the history and formation of Western society. Throughout its long history, the Christian Church has been a major source of social services like schooling and medical care; inspiration for art, culture and philosophy; and influential player in politics and religion. In various ways it has sought to affect Western attitudes to vice and virtue in diverse fields. It has, over many centuries, promulgated the teachings of Jesus within the Western world.

Festivals like Easter and Christmas are marked as public holidays; the Gregorian Calendar has been adopted internationally as the civil calendar; and the calendar itself is measured from the assumed date of Jesus's incarnation.

The cultural influence of the Church has been vast. Church scholars preserved literacy in Western Europe following the Fall of Rome.[1] During the Middle Ages, the Church rose to replace the Roman Empire as the unifying force in Europe. The cathedrals of that age remain among the most iconic feats of architecture produced by Western civilization. Many of Europe's universities were also founded by the church at that time. Many historians state that universities and cathedral schools were a continuation of the interest in learning promoted by monasteries.[2] The university is generally regarded as an institution that has its origin in the Medieval Christian setting.[3][4] The Reformation brought an end to religious unity in the West, but the Renaissance masterpieces produced by Catholic artists like Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and Raphael at that time remain among the most celebrated works of art ever produced. Similarly, Christian sacred music by composers like Pachelbel, Vivaldi, Bach, Handel, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert and Verdi is among the most admired classical music in the Western canon.

The Bible and Christian theology have also strongly influenced Western philosophers and political activists. The teachings of Jesus, such as the Parable of the Good Samaritan, are among the important sources for modern notions of Human Rights and the welfare measures commonly provided by governments in the West. Long held Christian teachings on sexuality and marriage and family life have also been both influential and (in recent times) controversial.

Christianity played a role in ending practices such as human sacrifice, slavery,[5] infanticide and polygamy.[6] Christianity in general affected the status of women by condemning infanticide (female infants were more likely to be killed), divorce, incest, polygamy, birth control, abortion and marital infidelity.[7] While official Church teaching[8] considers women and men to be complementary (equal and different), some modern "advocates of ordination of women and other feminists" argue that teachings attributed to St. Paul and those of the Fathers of the Church and Scholastic theologians advanced the notion of a divinely ordained female inferiority.[9] Nevertheless, women have played prominent roles in Western history through as part of the church, particularly in education and healthcare, but also as influential theologians and mystics.

Some of the things that Christianity is commonly criticized for include the oppression of women, condemnation of homosexuality, colonialism, and various other violence. Christian ideas have been used both to support and to end slavery as an institution. The criticism of Christianity has come from the various religious and non-religious groups around the world, some of whom were themselves Christians

italo:

In India, over 25,000 schools and colleges are operated by the Church

italo:
By the close of the 19th century, European powers had managed to gain control of most of the African interior.[74] The new rulers introduced cash-based economies which created an enormous demand for literacy and a western education—a demand which for most Africans could only be satisfied by Christian missionaries.[74] Catholic missionaries followed colonial governments into Africa, and built schools, hospitals, monasteries and churches.[74]

With a high number of adult baptisms, the Church is growing faster in Africa than anywhere else.[169] It also operates a greater number of Catholic schools per parish here (3:1) than in other areas of the world.

italo:
From 19th century foundations, the Catholic education system in Australia has grown to be the second biggest sector after government schools with around 21 per cent of all secondary school enrolments.[166] The Church has established primary, secondary and tertiary educational institutions. St Mary MacKillop was a 19th-century Australian nun who founded an educational religious institute, the Sisters of St Joseph of the Sacred Heart, and in 2010 became the first Australian to be canonised as a saint.[167] Catholic education is also significant in neighbouring South Pacific nations: 11% of New Zealand students attend Catholic schools

italo:
The number of Catholic institutions as of 2000[147]
Institutions#
Parishes and missions408,637
Primary and secondary schools125,016
Universities1,046
Hospitals5,853
Orphanages8,695
Homes for the elderly and handicapped13,933
Dispensaries, leprosaries, nurseries and other institutions74,936
Missionary activity for the Catholic Church has always incorporated education of evangelized peoples as part of its social ministry. History shows that in evangelized lands, the first people to operate schools were Roman Catholics. In some countries, the Church is the main provider of education or significantly supplements government forms of education. Presently, the Church operates the world's largest non-governmental school system.[148] Many of Western Civilization's most influential universities were founded by the Catholic Church.

italo:
The Industrial Revolution brought many concerns about the deteriorating working and living conditions of urban workers. Influenced by the German Bishop Wilhelm Emmanuel Freiherr von Ketteler, in 1891 Pope Leo XIII published the encyclical Rerum novarum, which set in context Catholic social teaching in terms that rejected socialism but advocated the regulation of working conditions. Rerum Novarum argued for the establishment of a living wage and the right of workers to form trade unions.[140]

Quadragesimo anno was issued by Pope Pius XI, on 15 May 1931, 40 years after Rerum novarum. Unlike Leo, who addressed mainly the condition of workers, Pius XI concentrated on the ethical implications of the social and economic order. He called for the reconstruction of the social order based on the principle of solidarity and subsidiarity.[141] He noted major dangers for human freedom and dignity, arising from unrestrained capitalism and totalitarian communism.

The social teachings of Pope Pius XII repeat these teachings, and apply them in greater detail not only to workers and owners of capital, but also to other professions such as politicians, educators, house-wives, farmers bookkeepers, international organizations, and all aspects of life including the military. Going beyond Pius XI, he also defined social teachings in the areas of medicine, psychology, sport, TV, science, law and education. Pius XII was called "the Pope of Technology for his willingness and ability to examine the social implications of technological advances. The dominant concern was the continued rights and dignity of the individual. With the beginning of the space age at the end of his pontificate, Pius XII explored the social implications of space exploration and satellites on the social fabric of humanity asking for a new sense of community and solidarity in light of existing papal teachings on subsidiarity.[142]

The Methodist Church, among other Christian denominations, was responsible for the establishment of hospitals, universities, orphanages, soup kitchens, and schools to follow Jesus's command to spread the Good News and serve all people.[143][144] In Western nations, governments have increasingly taken up funding and organisation of health services for the poor but the Church still maintains a massive network of health care providers across the world. In the West, these institutions are increasingly run by lay-people after centuries of being run by priests, nuns and brothers, In 2009, Catholic hospitals in the USA received approximately one of every six patients, according to the Catholic Health Association.[145] Catholic Health Australia is the largest non-government provider grouping of health, community and aged care services, representing about 10% of the health sector.[146] In 1968, nuns or priests were the chief executives of 770 of America's 796 Catholic hospitals. By 2011, they presided over 8 of 636 hospitals.[145]

As with schooling, women have played a vital role in running and staffing Christian care institutions - in Methodist hospitals, deaconesses who trained as nurses staffed the hospitals,[144] and in Catholic hospitals, through religious institutes like the Sisters of Mercy, Little Sisters of the Poor and Sisters of St. Mary - and teaching and nursing have been seen as "women's vocations". Seeking to define the role played by religious in hospitals through American history, the New York Times noted that nuns were trained to "see Jesus in the face of every patient" and that:[145]

“Although their influence is often described as intangible, the nuns kept their hospitals focused on serving the needy and brought a spiritual reassurance that healing would prevail over profit, authorities on Catholic health care say.”

italo:
Adsonstone, more from wiki,

Francisco de Vitoria, a disciple of Thomas Aquinas and a Catholic thinker who studied the issue regarding the human rights of colonized natives, is recognized by the United Nations as a father of international law, and now also by historians of economics and democracy as a leading light for the West's democracy and rapid economic development.[124]

Joseph Schumpeter, an economist of the twentieth century, referring to the Scholastics, wrote, "it is they who come nearer than does any other group to having been the ‘founders’ of scientific economics."[125] Other economists and historians, such as Raymond de Roover, Marjorie Grice-Hutchinson, and Alejandro Chafuen, have also made similar statements. Historian Paul Legutko of Stanford University said the Catholic Church is "at the center of the development of the values, ideas, science, laws, and institutions which constitute what we call Western civilization."[126]


The Catholic Church has contributed to society through its social doctrine which has guided leaders to promote social justice and providing care to the sick and poor. In orations such as his Sermon on the Mount and stories such as The Good Samaritan, Jesus called on followers to worship God, act without violence or prejudice and care for the sick, hungry and poor. Such teachings are the foundation of Catholic Church involvement in social justice, hospitals and health care.

Medieval periodEdit
The Catholic Church established a hospital system in Medieval Europe that was different from the merely reciprocal hospitality of the Greeks and family-based obligations of the Romans. These hospitals were established to cater to "particular social groups marginalized by poverty, sickness, and age," according to historian of hospitals, Guenter Risse.[139]

italo:
Adsonstone, more from wiki:


Early Church Fathers advocated against polygamy, homosexuality, transvestism, and incest.[41] Historically, Christian churches have regarded homosexual sex as sinful, based on the Catholic understanding of the natural law and traditional interpretations of certain passages in the Bible.

Early Church Fathers advocated against polygamy, abortion, infanticide, child abuse, homosexuality, transvestism, and incest.[41] Although some Christian ideals were adopted by the Roman Empire, there is little evidence to link most of these laws to Church influence.[48] After the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as the official religion, however, the link between Christian teachings and Roman family laws became more clear.[49]

For example, Church teaching heavily influenced the legal concept of marriage.[50] During the Gregorian Reform, the Church developed and codified a view of marriage as a sacrament.[17] In a departure from societal norms, Church law required the consent of both parties before a marriage could be performed[41] and established a minimum age for marriage.[51] The elevation of marriage to a sacrament also made the union a binding contract, with dissolutions overseen by Church authorities.[52] Although the Church abandoned tradition to allow women the same rights as men to dissolve a marriage,[53] in practice, when an accusation of infidelity was made, men were granted dissolutions more frequently than women



In opposition to this view, some historians of science, including non-Catholics such as J.L. Heilbron,[75] A.C. Crombie, David Lindberg,[76] Edward Grant, Thomas Goldstein,[77] and Ted Davis, have argued that the Church had a significant, positive influence on the development of Western civilization. They hold that, not only did monks save and cultivate the remnants of ancient civilization during the barbarian invasions, but that the Church promoted learning and science through its sponsorship of many universities which, under its leadership, grew rapidly in Europe in the 11th and 12th centuries. St.Thomas Aquinas, the Church's "model theologian," argued that reason is in harmony with faith, and that reason can contribute to a deeper understanding of revelation, and so encouraged intellectual development.[78] The Church's priest-scientists, many of whom were Jesuits, have been among the leading lights in astronomy, genetics, geomagnetism, meteorology, seismology, and solar physics, becoming some of the "fathers" of these sciences. Examples include important churchmen such as the Augustinian abbot Gregor Mendel (pioneer in the study of genetics), Roger Bacon (a Franciscan friar who was one of the early advocates of the scientific method), and Belgian priest Georges Lemaître (the first to propose the Big Bang theory). Other notable priest scientists have included Albertus Magnus, Robert Grosseteste, Nicholas Steno, Francesco Grimaldi, Giambattista Riccioli, Roger Boscovich, and Athanasius Kircher. Even more numerous are Catholic laity involved in science:Henri Becquerel who discovered radioactivity; Galvani, Volta, Ampere, Marconi, pioneers in electricity and telecommunications; Lavoisier, "father of modern chemistry"; Vesalius, founder of modern human anatomy; and Cauchy, one of the mathematicians who laid the rigorous foundations of calculus.

Many well-known historical figures who influenced Western science considered themselves Christian such as Copernicus,[79] Galileo,[80] Kepler,[81] Newton[82] and Boyle.[83]

According to 100 Years of Nobel Prize (2005), a review of Nobel prizes awarded between 1901 and 2000, 65.4% of Nobel Prize Laureates, have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference (423 prizes).[84] Overall, Christians have won a total of 78.3% of all the Nobel Prizes in Peace,[85] 72.5% in Chemistry, 65.3% in Physics,[85] 62% in Medicine,[85] 54% in Economics[85] and 49.5% of all Literature awards.[85]

All these epistles just to list some of the numerous evils of the roman catholic church?


Okay, from your epistle;

1. Prove the bold that those percentages of christians were Roman Catholics.

2. Prove that Kepler and Boyle were roman catholics.

italo:


1. Man has not advanced to anywhere. He has moved forward in some areas and moved backward in other areas.

2. What reason took rightful place?

3. I don't understand what you mean by religion being in agreement with all scientific discovery.

4. Science was practically invented by the Catholic Church. It also sponsored and nurtured it. The Church founded Europe's first universities. Catholics like Thomas Aquinas and Francis Bacon contributed to developing the scientific model. Father Georges Lemaitre was the first to propound the big bang theory. Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744–1829) prefigured the theory of evolution with Lamarckism; Friar Gregor Mendel (1822–84) pioneered genetics. Many pioneers in science were Catholic lay and even clergymen.

The Catholic Church built the civilization you value.

Yet the inquisition was used to suppress reason.

herald9:

Absolve yourself of fears.
Venture out with your thoughts.
And explore the world of possibilities.

When we have many enlightened people fighting for same cause, impossibility becomes nothing.

Our society reeks of religious dogma, it's high time we start a 'reverse crusade'.

So what do we do
Ban religion or make strict positive law to regulate them or what

..

adsonstone:

















All these epistles just to list some of the numerous evils of the roman catholic church?


Okay, from your epistle;

1. Prove the bold that those percentages of christians were Roman Catholics.

2. Prove that Kepler and Boyle were roman catholics.

the right question should be wether their religious beliefs inhibited their work in any way it would not have been able to do if they didn't hold such beliefs.
the answer is obvioysly true if and only if they held such believes against reality that scientific discovery had laid bare.

But the big question we shld be asking ourselves is wether religion has overstayed its welcome.

adsonstone:


1. What problem do you have with religion?
2. What do you mean by 'true salvation' as used in your post?
3. Who is this 'God' you're referring to?
4. Who in history has found this 'God' in the way above? Examples please.

Thanks.

Here we go again
Questions like this keep resurfacing on religion section

What who when and where....

Religion has really outlived its usefulness, we ought to have discard it long ago but we held on to it, now is causing us sorrow tears and blood .
We africans must do something about this nonsense.