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What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? - Religion (6) - Nairaland

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Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 4:54pm On Aug 04, 2015
DeepSight:


Hmmmm. Another unteachable mind.
Please retain the slight respect you have while it lasts.

I have no time for thoughtless dolts.
(And I don't think you are one - - - you have always appeared quite thoughtful and measured to me).

So stop being silly, my friend.

There is no such thing as a self conscious [emotional] robot.

Davien himself used the words "mimics" humans.
This says enough already.

Do i need to write an epistle on that point alone?

Haba?


DeepSight, it is not that you are not making sense. You are quite intelligent. But it is the way you just put other guys down that gets me.


The point here is that there could be self conscious robots in the future. There are many theoretical ways to acheive it, what remains is the full understanding of consciousness and the technology to harness it.

There might even be different forms of consciousness.

What if we met aliens that are similar to the transformers? Machines but alive?

1 Like

Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by DeepSight(m): 4:57pm On Aug 04, 2015
davien:
yes it is,It's a biological action that is present in mammals that breast-feed...a defective pup(retard) would not possess such a quality and would lose to those that do.. So nature rewards the ones better at the function and they produce offspring that can also perform it.....it's in the genes you could say

Jesus Christ! I have to quit on you here if you dont answer the following question correctly.

WHY do you call such a pup defective?

Think deeply o.

If you do not get this question right, I will have to save my time and not further engage you until I see something better from you.

Regards bro!
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 4:58pm On Aug 04, 2015
DeepSight:


Humour at last. Lolz.
No vex for me o.

E get as spirituality dey do me these days. I see things so clearly. I wonder why people argue over simplicities.

The suggestion that a robot may be self conscious as a human - and worse - the implicit suggestion that there was therefore no necessary spirituality behind the coming into being of humans (and indeed the world) is the worst form of intellectual, intuitive and spiritual death.

In terms that will speak to them: it is plain daft.


I believe in the spiritual but I think that the spiritual can be explained scientifically.

You are right that a conscious robot that has human awareness is ridiculous but it might not be so in the future.
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by davien(m): 4:58pm On Aug 04, 2015
DeepSight:


Of course! to some wonderful atheistic scientists the very breath of life itself is a pathetic random meaningless happenstance!
Ain't that pathetic?

STFU and revere GOD.
Butturt much?...

Try again! grin

Being an atheist does not mean I believe that and reverring a god for life is nothing but a poster for your ignorance.

1 Like

Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by davien(m): 5:04pm On Aug 04, 2015
DeepSight:


Jesus Christ! I have to quit on you here if you dont answer the following question correctly.

WHY do you call such a pup defective?

Think deeply o.

If you do not get this question right, I will have to save my time and not further engage you until I see something better from you.

Regards bro!
Neglecting to give you your desired answer is not necessarily failing to answer.

It would be because it lacked what was necessary for survival...which the word I believe you want to hear is inherently..

Inherent actions,behaviours are still functions of a brain that is wired to repeat such actions in those situations...

1 Like

Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by DeepSight(m): 5:05pm On Aug 04, 2015
AllNaijaBlogger:



DeepSight, it is not that you are not making sense. You are quite intelligent. But it is the way you just put other guys down that gets me.

No vex, perhaps you havent been on Nairaland too long. We joke, we jibe, we jab, we get serious.
It aint shiit.

Brothers are brothers. Na so.

The point here is that there could be self conscious robots in the future.

If you are self conscious can you then tell me why you are still a robot?
So the term "self conscious robots" is actually a contradiction in itself.

By definition, a Robot cannot be that.

Please dont take my word for it, check any ordinary dictionary definition of the word "Robot".

This is the whole idea behind free-will.
That a spirit being scion of GOD cannot be a robot.

It is impossible.

There are many theoretical ways to acheive it, what remains is the full understanding of consciousness and the technology to harness it.

Yes of course there are many ways to acheive it, including the very ancient way of having s.ex and producing a baby. . . . . Robot?

There might even be different forms of consciousness.

Lol. Of course there are. I have no doubt that the consciousness of last Sallah's Ram is different from mine.

What if we met aliens that are similar to the transformers? Machines but alive?

There is no machine that is alive.

And yes still, we will meet all sorts out in the universe one day.
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by DeepSight(m): 5:06pm On Aug 04, 2015
davien:
Neglecting to give you your desired answer is not necessarily failing to answer.

It would be because it lacked what was necessary for survival...which the word I believe you want to hear is inherently..

Inherent actions,behaviours are still functions of a brain that is wired to repeat such actions in those situatioms...

A brain.
Hmm.
A brain.

My friend. We will talk later.
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by davien(m): 5:10pm On Aug 04, 2015
DeepSight:
^^^ Turtles that are born from eggs and abandoned in the sand walk straight to the sea once hatched.

Birds will fly with magnetic traction towards the places in the earth that provide their food according to the season, even new birds.

All of this wonderful grandeur you dare to compare to the infantile technology of mankind.

I COMMAND YOU: SHUT UP: AND PAY RESPECT TO THE GOD THAT WE ARE MADE FROM.
So A.I should also trek to the nearest hardware store for new parts right? undecided lol grin

All those abilities are done by a brain wired to do them....defective ones fail to do so hence you'll never notice that because they are out-competed by the ones that do.

1 Like

Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by scarred9jan(m): 5:49pm On Aug 04, 2015
i just saw an article where it says human would be having sex with robots in 50 years time....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3185066/Would-sex-robot-Intimate-relationships-machines-norm-50-years-claims-expert.html
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 5:54pm On Aug 04, 2015
scarred9jan:
i just saw an article where it says human would be having sex with robots in 50 years time....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3185066/Would-sex-robot-Intimate-relationships-machines-norm-50-years-claims-expert.html



Interesting

1 Like

Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by plaetton: 6:25pm On Aug 04, 2015
DeepSight:
^^^ Turtles that are born from eggs and abandoned in the sand walk straight to the sea once hatched.

Birds will fly with magnetic traction towards the places in the earth that provide their food according to the season, even new birds.

All of this wonderful grandeur you dare to compare to the infantile technology of mankind.

I COMMAND YOU: SHUT UP: AND PAY RESPECT TO THE GOD THAT WE ARE MADE FROM.

@Tex & Deepsight,

You continue to miss the point.

Consciousness is simply the sum of interactive information.

Birds, turtles and puppies have billions of years of interactive information programmed by natural processes into their genes, their biology, thie physiology, their instincts.
So , your statements above are not good, well thought out arguments.

AI does not need to go through billion years of evolution to have the prerequisite threshold of interactive information that would make them human-like.
In fact, they do not need human emotions like love, fear, empathy, etc., because those traits were honed over the billions of years as necessities for evolutionary survival. They do not need it.

AI would not learn or social evolve in the same way that humans do, simply because they would bypass all the nuances, hickups, trials and errors of the evolution of human neural circuitry.

Unlike human babies that begin to quickly assimilate information from the moment of birth , to adulthood and most of it's life, AI's learning gradient would be almost instantaneous.
The reason for this is that AI , from the moment it is turned on, can plug itself right into the entire sum of human interactive information, and then stay constantly tuned into it.

Now, since I have stated before that consciousness is simply a product of interactive information, AI would be more alive to the moment than humans , without the nuances of culture, history, religion and genetic dispositions.

2 Likes

Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by davien(m): 6:34pm On Aug 04, 2015
plaetton:


@Tex & Deepsight,

You continue to miss the point.

Consciousness is simply the sum of interactive information.

Birds, turtles and puppies have billions of years of interactive information programmed by natural processes into their genes, their biology, thie physiology, their instincts.
So , your statements above are not good, well thought out arguments.

AI does not need to go through billion years of evolution to have the prerequisite threshold of interactive information that would make them human-like.
In fact, they do not need human emotions like love, fear, empathy, etc., because those traits were honed over the billions of years as necessities for evolutionary survival. They do not need it.

AI would not learn or social evolve in the same way that humans do, simply because they would bypass all the nuances, hickups, trials and errors of the evolution of human neural circuitry.

Unlike human babies that begin to quickly assimilate information from the moment of birth , to adulthood and most of it's life, AI's learning gradient would be almost instantaneous.
The reason for this is that AI , from the moment it is turned on, can plug itself right into the entire sum of human interactive information, and then stay constantly tuned into it.

Now, since I have stated before that consciousness is simply a product of interactive information, AI would be more alive to the moment than humans , without the nuances of culture, history, religion and genetic dispositions.
*Tip my hat.

1 Like

Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by plaetton: 6:42pm On Aug 04, 2015
^^^

In the past, I have used the marketplace or the Stock market in particular, as a very simple way of explain how interactive information evolves into a consciousness.

For those still a bit confused about consciousness or who still think that is it is a sort of divine gift (Depardo take note ), ask yourself whether the New York stock Exchange and the International Foreign Exchange Market, the two biggest and most liQuid Markets in the world, posses independent consciousness of their own.

Think about it deeply and carefully.

If the stock market is not the most visible prototype of artificial consciousness, then I don't know what else is .
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by plaetton: 6:49pm On Aug 04, 2015
AllNaijaBlogger:



DeepSight, it is not that you are not making sense. You are quite intelligent.

Intelligent ? shocked
C'mon, give me a break. undecided

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
grin wink

1 Like

Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 6:57pm On Aug 04, 2015
plaetton:


Intelligent ? shocked
C'mon, give me a break. undecided

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
grin wink

No, I beg to differ.

It takes intelligence to create word salads. I suspect that it is the history between you guys that makes Deepsight take the positions he does
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by plaetton: 7:04pm On Aug 04, 2015
AllNaijaBlogger:


No, I beg to differ.

It takes intelligence to create word salads. I suspect that it is the history between you guys that makes Deepsight take the positions he does

Indeed, It takes cunning and a bit of creativity to wip up word salads.
But, if the full menu is restricted to word salads, then I fail to see the intelligence. angry

Man shall not live by word salads alone.

Besides, I told you before, he lives in an alternative universe where religion does no harm , and people walk upside down.
grin

1 Like

Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by Nobody: 9:37pm On Aug 04, 2015
Keep it up guys. The sum of interactive information, plaetton? In what sense please?
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by Image123(m): 9:48pm On Aug 04, 2015
plaetton:


@Tex & Deepsight,

You continue to miss the point.

Consciousness is simply the sum of interactive information.

Birds, turtles and puppies have billions of years of interactive information programmed by natural processes into their genes, their biology, thie physiology, their instincts.
So , your statements above are not good, well thought out arguments.

AI does not need to go through billion years of evolution to have the prerequisite threshold of interactive information that would make them human-like.
In fact, they do not need human emotions like love, fear, empathy, etc., because those traits were honed over the billions of years as necessities for evolutionary survival. They do not need it.

AI would not learn or social evolve in the same way that humans do, simply because they would bypass all the nuances, hickups, trials and errors of the evolution of human neural circuitry.

Unlike human babies that begin to quickly assimilate information from the moment of birth , to adulthood and most of it's life, AI's learning gradient would be almost instantaneous.
The reason for this is that AI , from the moment it is turned on, can plug itself right into the entire sum of human interactive information, and then stay constantly tuned into it.

Now, since I have stated before that consciousness is simply a product of interactive information, AI would be more alive to the moment than humans , without the nuances of culture, history, religion and genetic dispositions.

The point is not about tractors, bulldozers, trucks, computers, machine and robots doing things more efficient than human beings. The point remains that they are not humans and have nothing to do with religion and beliefs.
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by plaetton: 9:53pm On Aug 04, 2015
Reyginus:
Keep it up guys. The sum of interactive information, plaetton? In what sense please?

I will endeavor to elaborate on this later.
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by wiegraf: 3:50am On Aug 05, 2015
Derp sight don come again

Where to even begin...

All the pretentious questions....to what aim?

1 Like

Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by Nobody: 7:54am On Aug 05, 2015
plaetton:

I will endeavor to elaborate on this later.
Okay
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by DeepSight(m): 2:09pm On Aug 05, 2015
plaetton:


@Tex & Deepsight,

You continue to miss the point.

Consciousness is simply the sum of interactive information.

Birds, turtles and puppies have billions of years of interactive information programmed by natural processes into their genes, their biology, thie physiology, their instincts.
So , your statements above are not good, well thought out arguments.

AI does not need to go through billion years of evolution to have the prerequisite threshold of interactive information that would make them human-like.
In fact, they do not need human emotions like love, fear, empathy, etc., because those traits were honed over the billions of years as necessities for evolutionary survival. They do not need it.

AI would not learn or social evolve in the same way that humans do, simply because they would bypass all the nuances, hickups, trials and errors of the evolution of human neural circuitry.

Unlike human babies that begin to quickly assimilate information from the moment of birth , to adulthood and most of it's life, AI's learning gradient would be almost instantaneous.
The reason for this is that AI , from the moment it is turned on, can plug itself right into the entire sum of human interactive information, and then stay constantly tuned into it.

Now, since I have stated before that consciousness is simply a product of interactive information, AI would be more alive to the moment than humans , without the nuances of culture, history, religion and genetic dispositions.

You see, when I talk about the staggering lack of logic in anything that Plaetton says, people often imagine that I merely love playing around with words.

However have a look at this post.

It is staggering in its contradictions and loss of logic.

Please anyone who has eyes to read should kindly review the red bold as against the green bold and as against the blue bold.

---> In the red bold he says that AI do not need human emotions like fear, love etc.

---> In the green bold he nevertheless insists that AI, once "turned on" can plug itself into the entire sum of human interactive information - forgetting of course, that emotions are a large part of such.

---> After this ridiculous somersault, he dares to crown the festival of contradictions by saying in the blue bold that AI would still be "more alive to the moment than humans"

This is the height of ludicrous reasoning, and it begs pity even from imbeciles.

Even entirely aside from its still fundamental failure to grasp the essential nature of consciousness.
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by DeepSight(m): 2:13pm On Aug 05, 2015
wiegraf:
Derp sight don come again

Where to even begin...

All the pretentious questions....to what aim?

Why should pretentiousness be an issue, Mr, subjective morality? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Of course Robots may also have subjective morality come to think about it.
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by DeepSight(m): 2:17pm On Aug 05, 2015
AllNaijaBlogger:


No, I beg to differ.

It takes intelligence to create word salads. I suspect that it is the history between you guys that makes Deepsight take the positions he does

Lol. You are too funny.
There is no such thing. Conviction is conviction and logic is logic. Plaetton is a pleasant friend of mine, but he rarely makes sense on the subject of the existence of God. He makes a lot of sense on many other topics, particularly on the history of religion and human psychology.

My worldview does not defer too terribly from Plaetton's I think. A lot between us is probably different words. I say God, he says Energy. Same thing really. I say consciousness, he says information. Not quite the same thing really, but somewhat understandable. But he makes some unfathomable statements which are impossible to agree with and is massive on self contradiction such as that pointed out above.

Please just check out a poster called Viaro, if you want to see really serious differences of views by the way. I also like that poster very much but intensely disagree with his Christian dogma. Ditto: Davidylan, Inesqor, and Noetic especially.

One poster who is without doubt among the finest minds to have ever graced this forum is Mr. Anony. Again, I disagree with much of his christian views, while agreeing with some. Jayriginal is also a fine mind, but I do not agree with his views. Pastor AIO, an excellent mind, but a wasteful futilist who prefers to talk to the wind. Mazaje, is a wonderful poster, who calls himself atheist but is hardly really so. Probably the most honest atheist I know here, but I do not agree with his views either. There used to be a poster called KAG. Utterly brilliant but I do not agree with her atheistic views and most of what she wrote here. Thehomer, who is an excellent sniper, is a very clear and deliberate thinker however I have hardly heard anyone speak more nonsense.

Anyway, since I happen to be on the subject of reviewing co posters here, I must say that there are some really noble souls.

So you see my friend, disagreement is rife even when one likes or respects the opposite mind.
In terms of my choice of words they are sometimes a deliberate ploy to rile my discussant into making honest statements. Not always though. Many times I mean them as I say them and I don't expect anyone to take offense because discussion here is merely online sport in most ways.

Beer parlour talk.
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by plaetton: 5:15pm On Aug 05, 2015
DeepSight:


You see, when I talk about the staggering lack of logic in anything that Plaetton says, people often imagine that I merely love playing around with words.

However have a look at this post.

It is staggering in its contradictions and loss of logic.

Please anyone who has eyes to read should kindly review the red bold as against the green bold and as against the blue bold.

---> In the red bold he says that AI do not need human emotions like fear, love etc.

---> In the green bold he nevertheless insists that AI, once "turned on" can plug itself into the entire sum of human interactive information - forgetting of course, that emotions are a large part of such.

---> After this ridiculous somersault, he dares to crown the festival of contradictions by saying in the blue bold that AI would still be "more alive to the moment than humans"

This is the height of ludicrous reasoning, and it begs pity even from imbeciles.

Even entirely aside from its still fundamental failure to grasp the essential nature of consciousness.

There are no contradictions on my post, unless, of course, you failed to grasp ideas being conveyed.

Funny, but not surprising due to your profession, that when it suites you, you attack the semantics rather than the core ideas being expressed, and then when else it suites you , you become very liberal with semantics of your own.
Cunning indeed. wink

let me repeat, AI would sift through and discard emotional responses because it is not part of it's evolution. It does not need emotions to either survive or even to enhance efficiency.

Again, if consciousness is the aggregate of interactive information (past and present ), then emotions, being aggregates of the evolutionary past, cannot be part of AI's present.

@Reyginus,

By sum of human interactive information, I am referring to all the records of human history, but specifically the World Wide Webb in the present.
The world Wide Webb presently contains , I would guess, the sum of accumulated human knowledge ,as well as , I would also guess, at least half of all interactive information in the present.

An AI plugged into the World Wide Webb would instantly be tuned into nearly all interactive information on the planet, both past and in the present.

To take this speculation further, A quantum computer or Ai with quantum computing capability would be the closes thing to a GOD.
This is not a joke.
It would be omniscience, omnipresent, and omnipotent in what it could do.

But, without emotions, without an evolutionary history, it would be smart, but not wise.
It would most likely mark the end of human civilization as we know it. lipsrsealed
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by DeepSight(m): 5:45pm On Aug 05, 2015
^^^ That is a lame and escapist response

1 Like

Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by tartar9(m): 7:03pm On Aug 05, 2015
plaetton:


Fair write up.
But I think You are wrong, primarily because most of us are not current with advancements in this area.
Another point is that whenever scientific analysis of consciouness is presented, most people ignore or shove it aside because it tends to nullify our beliefs about what it is.

CONSCIOUSNESS IS SIMPLY THE AGGLOMERATION OF INTERACTIVE INFORMATION.

Interactive information are the keywords here.
. Where and whenever interactive information reaches a certain mathematical threshold, a commensurate level of consciouness ensues.

In other words, consciousness, just like every other natural phenomena, obeys the laws of mathematics and physics.

Computers may not appear to rival human consciouness at this time, for very obvious reasons. Human consciousness is a product of 4.7 billion years of interactive information.

The human brain also operates in the quantum physical arena, which makes it vastly complex beyond the scope of classical physics.

Believe it or not, the Internet, the world wide webb is so far the closest we have in artificial consciouness and self awareness because it is the Biggest assemblage or aglomeration of interactive information.

All we need now is a quantum computer, and viola!, the world wide webb comes fully alive, consciouness and self aware, if it is not already so.
thats a rather broad statement.however my main point is,even if we know the exact processes going on in our brain that generates conciousness and we could also create or model these same processes artificially in a robot there will be no way of experimentally testing if that robot is really conciouss or not.
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by UyiIredia(m): 7:27pm On Aug 05, 2015
plaetton:


When the steam locomotive engine was Invented, people like Uyi shouted that humans would not be able to survive travelling beyond the speed of 22 miles per hour.

Same type of folks also said, at birth of the airplane, that if god wanted man to fly, he would have given us wings.
grin

And because those obstacles were surmounted everything and anything is possible ? Call me when man flies to the sun.
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by plaetton: 7:28pm On Aug 05, 2015
DeepSight:

^^^ That is a lame and escapist response

LOL.
You mean a lame and escapist response to an even lamer and escapist response ? undecided

Perhaps.

And by the way, the Stock Market, as an Artificial analogue of consciousness.
What is your response to that line of thought ?
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by UyiIredia(m): 7:36pm On Aug 05, 2015
plaetton:
^^^

In the past, I have used the marketplace or the Stock market in particular, as a very simple way of explain how interactive information evolves into a consciousness.

For those still a bit confused about consciousness or who still think that is it is a sort of divine gift (Depardo take note ), ask yourself whether the New York stock Exchange and the International Foreign Exchange Market, the two biggest and most liQuid Markets in the world, posses independent consciousness of their own.

Think about it deeply and carefully.

If the stock market is not the most visible prototype of artificial consciousness, then I don't know what else is .

Wow ! Stup*dity on display.
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by plaetton: 7:37pm On Aug 05, 2015
UyiIredia:


And because those obstacles were surmounted everything and anything is possible ? Call me when man flies to the sun.


When we reach class 1 civilization status, I am sure we would be going directly to core of the sun to capture and harness our energy needs.



This may shock you, but there crafts or should call them anomalous objects (surely not ours) , going in and out of our sun .
Re: What Will It Mean For Religion When Humans Create Conscious Robots? by plaetton: 7:40pm On Aug 05, 2015
UyiIredia:


Wow ! Stup*dity on display.

I actually take that as a huge compliment.
I do not ever ever expect you to grasp the point here.

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