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Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss - Religion - Nairaland

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Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by huxley(m): 11:53pm On Mar 24, 2009
Darwinian evolution is backed by more than 99% of scientist working in this field - paleontologist, molecular biologist, archeologist, anthropologist, etc, etc. This area of science has produces a wealth of material in the 150 years since Darwin proposed the theory. And to my knowledge, NOT a single evidence has been found to refute it. Not a single peer-review scientific paper/artricle has been produced that refutes it.

Or am I too hasty in the conclusion. Maybe. If the theory of evolution is ever likely to be successfully refuted, it the refutation likely to come from the practising scientists or from those motivated by a religious agenda? The Creationists. Where are the creationists' material research that is likely to cast doubts on the theory of evolution? Do they publish in peer-reviewed journals?

Where are the peer-reviewed materials and scientific publications that cast doubts on the theory of evolution? Please, post references to peer-viewed articles that support your position here and let us discuss them.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by huxley(m): 12:03am On Mar 25, 2009
Since I raise the thread, it would only be natural that I make the first post. OK, here we go:

[url=http://artsci.wustl.edu/~landc/html/cann/]

Nature 325, 31 - 36 (01 January 1987);

Mitochondrial DNA and human evolution
Rebecca L. Cann*, Mark Stoneking & Allan C. Wilson
Department of Biochemistry, University of California, Berkeley, California 94720, USA
* Present address: Department of Genetics, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822.

Mitochondrial DNAsfrom 147 people, drawn from five geographic populations have been analysed by restriction mapping. All these mitochondrial DMAs stem from one woman who is postulated to have lived about 200,000 years ago, probably in Africa. All the populations examined except the African population have multiple origins, implying that each area was colonised repeatedly.
[/url]
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 12:21am On Mar 25, 2009
huxley:

Darwinian evolution is backed by more than 99% of scientist working in this field - paleontologist, molecular biologist, archeologist, anthropologist, etc, etc.

No one shld be decieved by bogus statistics that have no basis and of course is provided without a matching source. Even though the idiots who put it out will demand source from you. Read about REAL SCIENTISTS who do not agree with darwin here - A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism

huxley:

This area of science has produces a wealth of material in the 150 years since Darwin proposed the theory.

Note that "wealth of material" is not the same thing as CONCRETE, IRREFUTABLE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. There was also a "wealth of material" regarding vestigial organs at about the same time Darwin was proposing his theory, we now know that to be false.

huxley:

And to my knowledge, NOT a single evidence has been found to refute it. Not a single peer-review scientific paper/artricle has been produced that refutes it.

Neither has there been A SINGLE CONCRETE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE to prove it, if not we wont have skeptics today. No one refutes gravity . . . because we have concrete proof of it.

Also note the subtle deceitful strategy of these ignorant fools - they always ask YOU the skeptic to provide evidence to refute evolution, the will NEVER provide evidence to support it. Lack of evidence to refute a matter does not make it true. Simple logic.

huxley:

Or am I too hasty in the conclusion. Maybe. If the theory of evolution is ever likely to be successfully refuted, it the refutation likely to come from the practising scientists or from those motivated by a religious agenda? The Creationists. Where are the creationists' material research that is likely to cast doubts on the theory of evolution? Do they publish in peer-reviewed journals?

Rather should we not be asking for material that CONCRETELY PROVES THAT EVOLUTION IS TRUE?

huxley:

Where are the peer-reviewed materials and scientific publications that cast doubts on the theory of evolution? Please, post references to peer-viewed articles that support your position here and let us discuss them.

Ask Huxley to provide peer-reviewed materials and scientific publications THAT PROVE EVOLUTION TO BE FACT! Pls tell him to no longer hoodwink you with youtube clips, talkorigin website talking points while asking you to provide scientific publications.

Thank you.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 12:22am On Mar 25, 2009
huxley:

Since I raise the thread, it would only be natural that I make the first post. OK, here we go:

[url=http://artsci.wustl.edu/~landc/html/cann/]

Nature 325, 31 - 36 (01 January 1987);

Mitochondrial DNA and human evolution
Rebecca L. Cann*, Mark Stoneking & Allan C. Wilson
Department of Biochemistry, University of California, Berkeley, California 94720, USA
* Present address: Department of Genetics, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822.

Mitochondrial DNAsfrom 147 people, drawn from five geographic populations have been analysed by restriction mapping. [size=18pt]All these mitochondrial DMAs stem from one woman[/size] who is postulated to have lived about 200,000 years ago, probably in Africa. All the populations examined except the African population have multiple origins, implying that each area was colonised repeatedly.
[/url]

Pls kindly help me ask - how is this concrete evidence of evolution? Did only one human evolve and then we multiplied from her? Why did 3-5 women not evolve at the same time? If, as darwin postulates, man evolved slowly from protists . . . did only one protist exist and produced JUST ONE WOMAN from which we all descended? Weren't there a lot of protists available then?

why did EVERY HUMAN, regardless of fundamental genomic differences, environmental differences, climatic differences and differences in selection pressure all evolve EXACTLY the same FEATURES at EXACTLY the SAME PERIOD of time? If evolution were indeed true, why do we all have the same intricate brain patterns, eye structure and circulatory system? Should we not see a few people who are 98% close to the complete human we see today?

Dont let these idiots fool you, they dont know that evolution is true themselves . . . but anything to attack christianity (falsely packaged as religion) is fair game to them. It doesnt matter how completely unintelligent they sound doing so.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 12:36am On Mar 25, 2009
Speaking of mtDNA . . . did we really evolve from neanderthals? Science tells us the answer - [url=http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.0020057&ct=1]No Evidence of Neandertal mtDNA Contribution to Early Modern Humans[/url]

The retrieval of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences from four Neandertal fossils from Germany, Russia, and Croatia has demonstrated that these individuals carried closely related mtDNAs that are not found among current humans.

But i thought we had a "wealth of material" stating that we evolved from neanderthals? Foolish people say in their heart that there is no God.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by huxley(m): 1:00am On Mar 25, 2009
davidylan:

Pls kindly help me ask - how is this concrete evidence of evolution? Did only one human evolve and then we multiplied from her? Why did 3-5 women not evolve at the same time? If, as darwin postulates, man evolved slowly from protists . . . did only one protist exist and produced JUST ONE WOMAN from which we all descended? Wheren't there a lot of protists available then?

Do you see stupidity at play here folks?

Let me help you with this one. I had the same difficulty a while ago until and thought about it harder and I read the book Darwinian Detective, that provide a much better explanation.

Just ask yourself the question - How many descendant from your grandmother 20 generations ago has living today? Let's say your granny who lived 1000 years ago, how many descendants do you think she has got living today?

Let's assume she had 2 daughters who survived till childbearing age and also each had 2 daughters each. Lets also assume all the daugthers bore at least two daughter who also bore two daugthers all the way down to the present. How many descendant will she have today:

Well, that is 220 = 1 048 576.

Of course many of these daugthers will die without having children of their own. So lets cut the figure down conservatively to 100,000 descendants. So we have reduced it by 1/10th.

Now these 100, 000 are scattered all over the world today, as they would have been scatter all around Africa as the moved about and settle new lands.

Now suppose there was an environmental cataclysm in Africa in which 95% of her descendants live and there all die. You and your sisters who may now be living in America and Europe still carry her DNA and you survive the disaster. The human population is drastically reduced for for a small population of individuals who carry your granny's mDNA. Slowly you begin to repopulate the planet again. Other lineages that were not from your granny do the same but they are not as successful as your family and their DNA profile gets reduced and reduced and reduced and eventually die out. All other mDNA is lost but for your family.

So from about 5% (5000 individuals) who carry your granny mDNA the human race is rebuilt. This is a very simplistic explanation and there have been sophisticated maths model produce to model this effect and this population bottleneck has also been found in our genome. Let me try and dig out the paper.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 1:06am On Mar 25, 2009
Huxley you dont seem to have gotten my point AT ALL . . .

look again at the evolutionary tree Darwin left us . . . it says we ALL (including animals) evolved from a single ancestor - the protist.

1. Well how come you dont share mtDNA with a cockroach?

2. How come ONLY ONE WOMAN EVOLVED? Was there only ONE protist existing at a single point in time?

Your explanation fits perfectly with the creation narrative (which of course you debunk) but does not square with the concept of evolution . . . that is the issue. Pls address it and oh pls provide scientific publications . . . dont tell us faabu here.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by huxley(m): 1:09am On Mar 25, 2009
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by huxley(m): 1:12am On Mar 25, 2009
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 1:12am On Mar 25, 2009
Note also the subtle tricks of these fools (you know those that say there is no God) . . . they will NEVER address an issue before scuttling to plagiarise more web material hoping they can distract you from asking those pointed questions they have no answers to.

Pls remember to hold their feet over the fire concerning the outstanding questions.

Huxley, we are still on your first paper.

Pls i would also like viewers to read this from a well-respected scientist - [url=http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0020124&ct=1&SESSID=9d10741fe797d2dc5b4a47d99bcbc508]Why Most Published Research Findings Are False[/url]

John P. A. Ioannidis

There is increasing concern that most current published research findings are false. The probability that a research claim is true may depend on study power and bias, the number of other studies on the same question, and, importantly, the ratio of true to no relationships among the relationships probed in each scientific field.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 1:13am On Mar 25, 2009
huxley:

Since I raise the thread, it would only be natural that I make the first post. OK, here we go:

[url=http://artsci.wustl.edu/~landc/html/cann/]

Nature 325, 31 - 36 (01 January 1987);

Mitochondrial DNA and human evolution
Rebecca L. Cann*, Mark Stoneking & Allan C. Wilson
Department of Biochemistry, University of California, Berkeley, California 94720, USA
* Present address: Department of Genetics, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822.

Mitochondrial DNAsfrom 147 people, drawn from five geographic populations have been analysed by restriction mapping. [size=18pt]All these mitochondrial DMAs stem from one woman[/size] who is postulated to have lived about 200,000 years ago, probably in Africa. All the populations examined except the African population have multiple origins, implying that each area was colonised repeatedly.
[/url]

Pls kindly help me ask - how is this concrete evidence of evolution? Did only one human evolve and then we multiplied from her? Why did 3-5 women not evolve at the same time? If, as darwin postulates, man evolved slowly from protists . . . did only one protist exist and produced JUST ONE WOMAN from which we all descended? Weren't there a lot of protists available then?

why did EVERY HUMAN, regardless of fundamental genomic differences, environmental differences, climatic differences and differences in selection pressure all evolve EXACTLY the same FEATURES at EXACTLY the SAME PERIOD of time? If evolution were indeed true, why do we all have the same intricate brain patterns, eye structure and circulatory system? Should we not see a few people who are 98% close to the complete human we see today?

Dont let these idiots fool you, they dont know that evolution is true themselves . . . but anything to attack christianity (falsely packaged as religion) is fair game to them. It doesnt matter how completely unintelligent they sound doing so.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 1:13am On Mar 25, 2009
Huxley you dont seem to have gotten my point AT ALL . . .

look again at the evolutionary tree Darwin left us . . . it says we ALL (including animals) evolved from a single ancestor - the protist.

1. Well how come you dont share mtDNA with a cockroach?

2. How come ONLY ONE WOMAN EVOLVED? Was there only ONE protist existing at a single point in time?

Your explanation fits perfectly with the creation narrative (which of course you debunk) but does not square with the concept of evolution . . . that is the issue. Pls address it and oh pls provide scientific publications . . . dont tell us faabu here.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 1:20am On Mar 25, 2009
Where are the answers Huxley? why are they taking so long? I thought there was a "wealth of material" (note it doesnt say "wealth of evidence"wink?



See Darwin's tree here just to speed up your thinking process. How come we dont share mtDNA with protists by the way? Do we share mtDNA with fishes too? Surely there must be some scientific link to prove these tree huh?
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by huxley(m): 1:24am On Mar 25, 2009
davidylan:

Pls kindly help me ask - how is this concrete evidence of evolution? Did only one human evolve and then we multiplied from her? Why did 3-5 women not evolve at the same time? If, as darwin postulates, man evolved slowly from protists . . . did only one protist exist and produced JUST ONE WOMAN from which we all descended? Weren't there a lot of protists available then?

why did EVERY HUMAN, regardless of fundamental genomic differences, environmental differences, climatic differences and differences in selection pressure all evolve EXACTLY the same FEATURES at EXACTLY the SAME PERIOD of time? If evolution were indeed true, why do we all have the same intricate brain patterns, eye structure and circulatory system? Should we not see a few people who are 98% close to the complete human we see today?

Dont let these idiots fool you, they dont know that evolution is true themselves . . . but anything to attack christianity (falsely packaged as religion) is fair game to them. It doesnt matter how completely unintelligent they sound doing so.

Well, strictly speaking you are right that this is NOT by itself so much evidence for human evolution but evidence for common ancestory in Africa.  This study traces human mDNA as human and NOT as proto-humans.  But it is evidence for evolution in the sense that the theory of evolution predicts that humans evolved in Africa, which this study clearly confirms.    

Supposing this study had traced human ancestory back to Pakistan or Siberia,  that would have been a categoric refutation of the theory of evolution.   Hope that makes it clear.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by osisi2(f): 1:26am On Mar 25, 2009
David I wish you understood Igbo
I would have said,hapu onye ara Old park  anunwa ka o gbara oto gbaba na Ogbete market
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 1:27am On Mar 25, 2009
huxley:

Well, strictly speaking you are that this is NOT by itself so much evidence for human evolution but evidence for common ancestory in Africa.  This study traces human mDNA as human and NOT as proto-humans.  But it is evidence for evolution in the sense that the theory of evolution predicts that humans evolved in Africa, which this study clearly confirms.    

Supposing this study had traced human ancestory back to Pakistan or Siberia,  that would have been a categoric refutation of the theory of evolution.   Hope that makes it clear.

1. Note how he completely sidesteps the pointed questions above.

2. The theory of evolution predicted human ancestory came from Africa . . . based on NO scientific evidence at all.

3. If this is the case, did protists ONLY exist in Africa? why did African protists BUT NOT THE ONES IN China, USA, Europe lead to humans?

4. Why do we not share mtDNA with fish?

5. If this is not evidence for evolution then WHY THE HECK DID YOU POST IT? Cant you find A SINGLE PAPER showing proof of evolution? Isnt that what you started bleating about in your first post?

My friend we need answers and fast pls.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by huxley(m): 1:33am On Mar 25, 2009
davidylan:

Where are the answers Huxley? why are they taking so long? I thought there was a "wealth of material" (note it doesnt say "wealth of evidence"wink?



See Darwin's tree here just to speed up your thinking process. How come we dont share mtDNA with protists by the way? Do we share mtDNA with fishes too? Surely there must be some scientific link to prove these tree huh?

What the tree means is this - the further down you go the less DNA you share with organism.   Yes, so all organism share genetic material - human share material with fish, and worms, and baoba trees.  But we share more with gorilla, Chimps and Bonobo because they are closer to us on the tree.

Remember the question I asked you some weeks ago?


Is it conceivable that humans could suffer some malfunction that would result in someone developing feathers on their skin?    Your answer was a categoric NO.   I asked you why  but you evaded.  If you had tried to answer you could have understood better how the tree works.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by huxley(m): 1:39am On Mar 25, 2009
davidylan:

1. Note how he completely sidesteps the pointed questions above.

2. The theory of evolution predicted human ancestory came from Africa . . . based on NO scientific evidence at all.

3. If this is the case, did protists ONLY exist in Africa? why did African protists BUT NOT THE ONES IN China, USA, Europe lead to humans?

4. Why do we not share mtDNA with fish?

5. If this is not evidence for evolution then WHY THE HECK DID YOU POST IT? Cant you find A SINGLE PAPER showing proof of evolution? Isnt that what you started bleating about in your first post?

My friend we need answers and fast pls.

Man, you do not understand science. Science works by the convergence of independent lines of inquiry. This work was an indepndent line of research and why did it trace humans origin back to Africa? Because that is where humans evolved. Do you want other evidence for human ancestory in africa? Well am sure as a scientist (insurance saleman) you know where to go get it.

I have posted plenty of peer-reviewed articles here about human origins before. Shall I dig them out for you?
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 1:40am On Mar 25, 2009
Note again . . . the sheer lack of any credible source for these bogus claims below.

huxley:

What the tree means is this - the further down you go the less DNA you share with organism.

You claim we retained remnants of failed viral attacks in the form of ERVs, why did we lose all traces of fish mtDNA? You're simply interpreting the tree as it suits your narrow agenda . . .

ayinba1:

  Yes, so all organism share genetic material - human share material with fish, and worms, and baoba trees.  But we share more with gorilla, Chimps and Bonobo because they are closer to us on the tree.

If we all descended from the same ancestor we shld share a heck of a lot more than some vague "genetic material".

ayinba1:

Remember the question I asked you some weeks ago?

Is it conceivable that humans could suffer some malfunction that would result in someone developing feathers on their skin?    Your answer was a categoric NO.   I asked you why  but you evaded.  If you had tried to answer you could have understood better how the tree works.

Again note how he tries to evade every single question asked by desperately trying to worm his way out with irrelevant questions.

[size=14pt]Back to the question - Huxley, where is the CONCRETE, IRREFUTABLE, FOOLPROOF EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION? Scientific publications pls . . .[/size]
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 1:42am On Mar 25, 2009
huxley:

Man, you do not understand science. Science works by the convergence of independent lines of inquiry. This work was an indepndent line of research and why did it trace humans origin back to Africa? Because that is where humans evolved. Do you want other evidence for human ancestory in africa? Well am sure as a scientist (insurance saleman) you know where to go get it.

I have posted plenty of peer-reviewed articles here about human origins before. Shall I dig them out for you?

Neither do you understand science at all . . . below posts are repetitions of questions you are struggling to dodge with ad hominems.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 1:42am On Mar 25, 2009
huxley:

Since I raise the thread, it would only be natural that I make the first post. OK, here we go:

[url=http://artsci.wustl.edu/~landc/html/cann/]

Nature 325, 31 - 36 (01 January 1987);

Mitochondrial DNA and human evolution
Rebecca L. Cann*, Mark Stoneking & Allan C. Wilson
Department of Biochemistry, University of California, Berkeley, California 94720, USA
* Present address: Department of Genetics, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822.

Mitochondrial DNAsfrom 147 people, drawn from five geographic populations have been analysed by restriction mapping. [size=18pt]All these mitochondrial DMAs stem from one woman[/size] who is postulated to have lived about 200,000 years ago, probably in Africa. All the populations examined except the African population have multiple origins, implying that each area was colonised repeatedly.
[/url]

Pls kindly help me ask - how is this concrete evidence of evolution? Did only one human evolve and then we multiplied from her? Why did 3-5 women not evolve at the same time? If, as darwin postulates, man evolved slowly from protists . . . did only one protist exist and produced JUST ONE WOMAN from which we all descended? Weren't there a lot of protists available then?

why did EVERY HUMAN, regardless of fundamental genomic differences, environmental differences, climatic differences and differences in selection pressure all evolve EXACTLY the same FEATURES at EXACTLY the SAME PERIOD of time? If evolution were indeed true, why do we all have the same intricate brain patterns, eye structure and circulatory system? Should we not see a few people who are 98% close to the complete human we see today?

Dont let these idiots fool you, they dont know that evolution is true themselves . . . but anything to attack christianity (falsely packaged as religion) is fair game to them. It doesnt matter how completely unintelligent they sound doing so.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 1:42am On Mar 25, 2009
Huxley you dont seem to have gotten my point AT ALL . . .

look again at the evolutionary tree Darwin left us . . . it says we ALL (including animals) evolved from a single ancestor - the protist.

1. Well how come you dont share mtDNA with a cockroach?

2. How come ONLY ONE WOMAN EVOLVED? Was there only ONE protist existing at a single point in time?

Your explanation fits perfectly with the creation narrative (which of course you debunk) but does not square with the concept of evolution . . . that is the issue. Pls address it and oh pls provide scientific publications . . . dont tell us faabu here.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 1:58am On Mar 25, 2009
Posts were scientific proof is required is one place you are least likely to find all these vaunted evolutionists . . . they would rather camp on threads were ad hominems reign supreme.

Huxley pls dont keep us waiting with your "wealth of material" . . . we will love to be educated too. Pls tackle the last 2 posts above.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by huxley(m): 2:00am On Mar 25, 2009
davidylan:

Huxley you dont seem to have gotten my point AT ALL . . .

look again at the evolutionary tree Darwin left us . . . it says we ALL (including animals) evolved from a single ancestor - the protist.

1. Well how come you dont share mtDNA with a cockroach?



You have difficulties understanding science.  Science is NOT dogma.    Darwin sketch out the relationship of organisms and arrange them as a tree.  With greater understanding of TTE the relative position of various entities on that tree would have been ammended.

By the way, I am not sure the tree you have posted is the same as Darwin printed in his book, the Origin, as there was only one sketch in the entire book and I don't think it looks anything like the one you have posted.

Yes, TTE say that ALL living things share genetic material.  So yes we share genes with the cockroach, but I don't know how much.  At a guess, I would say about 10%.

davidylan:


2. How come ONLY ONE WOMAN EVOLVED? Was there only ONE protist existing at a single point in time?

Your explanation fits perfectly with the creation narrative (which of course you debunk) but does not square with the concept of evolution . . . that is the issue. Pls address it and oh pls provide scientific publications . . . dont tell us faabu here.

Who said only one woman evolved.  Where does it say ONE anything evolved.   WHERE?    Stop being dishonest David.


There is a big difference between ONE Woman EVOLVED and saying ONE WOMAN's descendant survived.      Humans ancestory suggest only one womans ancestory survived till present.  What is hard in understanding this.   Even your bogus bible say we are the descendant of one woman.  That is not precluded scientifically and I have painted a picture, with some numbers in which such a scenario can be achieved.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 2:10am On Mar 25, 2009
huxley:

You have difficulties understanding science. Science is NOT dogma.

which is why i have been asking for scientific proof ever since this thread started. The law of gravity and the laws or motion are pretty much dogma at this point. That the earth revolves around the sun is also confirmed dogma, that the moon simply reflects the light of the sun and that the earth is round not flat is also confirmed dogma.

Thou fool . . . science is NEVER dogma when it comes to explaining your false ideas. You rather skirt around with handwaving excuses like "you have difficulties understanding science". No i have difficulties understanding LIARS.

You, not me, posted the first article and you've been having SERIOUS PROBLEMS explaining it ever since? Yeah science is not dogma indeed!

huxley:

Darwin sketch out the relationship of organisms and arrange them as a tree. With greater understanding of TTE the relative position of various entities on that tree would have been ammended.

Infact what we have above there is the AMMENDED TREE. Darwin's was much smaller and more primitive. A look at EVERY OTHER EXAMPLE of the tree (ammended or not) shows the same thing - that man and all other organisms evolved from an ancestral protista. Pls explain!

huxley:

Yes, TTE say that ALL living things share genetic material. So yes we share genes with the cockroach, but I don't know how much. At a guess, I would say about 10%.

Stop guessing you fool . . . we are not here to guess but to provide your "wealth of material". TTE "says" all living things share genetic material . . . uhm like EXACTLY WHAT do we share with the lizard, frog and amoeba and HOW did we come to share it? YES the DNA's of ALL organisms contain the same 4 base pairs but what else do we share?

How did you arrive at the 10% sharing of mtDNA between humans and the cockroach? Is that from a peer-reviewed article like you requested at the start of this debate?

huxley:

Who said only one woman evolved. Where does it say ONE anything evolved. WHERE? Stop being dishonest David.

Dont be stupid. Your paper and science says ALL MAN evolved from one single woman who originated in Africa . . . was she the ONLY HUMAN to evolve from the millions of protists that must have existed then?

huxley:

There is a big difference between ONE Woman EVOLVED and saying ONE WOMAN's descendant survived. Humans ancestory suggest only one womans ancestory survived till present. What is hard in understanding this.

It is statistically implausible that out of the possibly millions of protists that could have evolved into man, only ONE WOMAN survived to produce man as we know it today? Why did we not see human divergence as you falsely claim exists in other animals?

Where are the humans who have only evolved half way? why did EVERY HUMAN, regardless of fundamental genomic differences, environmental differences, climatic differences and differences in selection pressure all evolve EXACTLY the same FEATURES at EXACTLY the SAME PERIOD of time? If evolution were indeed true, why do we all have the same intricate brain patterns, eye structure and circulatory system?

huxley:

Even your bogus bible say we are the descendant of one woman. That is not precluded scientifically and I have painted a picture, with some numbers in which such a scenario can be achieved.

Since when did science start running to use the bible to validate it? The bible can adequately explain how we could be descendants of one woman . . . kindly provide your own bible (peer reviewed scientific publications) showing how we evolved from protists who only managed to create ONE WOMAN!
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Bastage: 2:11am On Mar 25, 2009
Well how come you dont share mtDNA with a cockroach?


Cockroaches do have mtDNA.
The fact that there is such a vast time scale between cockroach and man's evolution dates means that any mtDNA link would have disappeared through mutation. mtDNA mutates slowly but it still mutates.
An analogy is to look at a clock at 1 minute past 12am. Imagine that is when cockroach mtDNA appears. Mankind doesn't appear until 10 seconds before midnight. In that 10 seconds, his mtDNA has mutated. It's just mutated over a small time scale but is still recognisable. Then take into account the preceeding 23 hours 59 minutes and 50 seconds of mutation. Is it any wonder that cockroach mtDNA is any different? The time-scale involved is vast - plenty of time for a full mutation to occur.

The fact that mtDNA exists in any form whatsoever in cockroaches and man-kind shows a common link.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 2:18am On Mar 25, 2009
Bastage:

Cockroaches do have mtDNA.

we already knew that. The question was why dont we share mtDNAs with cockroaches.

Bastage:

The fact that there is such a vast time scale between cockroach and man's evolution dates means that any mtDNA link would have disappeared through mutation. mtDNA mutates slowly but it still mutates.

this is nonsense . . . mtDNA is so large that it is implausible that mutations (which are rare, mostly deleterious to the organism and notoriously slow) will be responslible for wiping out every single trace of similarity between human and cockroach mtDNA. Those mutations would also mean drastic changes in mitochondrial proteins and function but surprisingly cockroaches also produce homologs of human mitochodrial proteins! How come we can trace our mtDNA to a woman who allegedly lived 200,000 yrs ago? shouldnt mutation have wiped any similarities out?

Bastage:

An analogy is to look at a clock at 1 minute past 12am. Imagine that is when cockroach mtDNA appears. Mankind doesn't appear until 10 seconds before midnight. In that 10 seconds, his mtDNA has mutated. It's just mutated over a small time scale but is still recognisable. Then take into account the preceeding 23 hours 59 minutes and 50 seconds of mutation. Is it any wonder that cockroach mtDNA is any different? The time-scale involved is vast - plenty of time for a full mutation to occur.

Rubbish . . . scientists claim we have the remnants of failed viral attacks in our genomes that took place millions - billions of yrs ago . . . if that could still remain why did mutation remove only our links to the cockroach?

Bastage:

The fact that mtDNA exists in any form whatsoever in cockroaches and man-kind shows a common link.

What a dumb answer. So the fact that you have DNA and the maize plant also has DNA shows a common ancestral link between you and a corn cob?

Pls stop insulting our intelligence and can you pls provide CONCRETE scientific proof of your verbiage next time?
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 2:33am On Mar 25, 2009
why have they run elsewhere? Wasnt Huxley the one boasting about a "wealth of material" earlier on? Oh boy, here i was thinking i'd be swamped with irrefutable evidence to convert me to the hallowed grounds of the cathedral of evolution . . . with Charles Darwin as officiating minister.

Ewure ni awon boys yi sha.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 2:38am On Mar 25, 2009
I provided my own scientific publication as the old fool (you know those who say there is no God) called Huxley asked me to do . . . why has he REFUSED to comment on it?

Speaking of mtDNA . . . did we really evolve from neanderthals? Science tells us the answer - [url=http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.0020057&ct=1]No Evidence of Neandertal mtDNA Contribution to Early Modern Humans[/url]

The retrieval of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences from four Neandertal fossils from Germany, Russia, and Croatia has demonstrated that these individuals carried closely related mtDNAs that are not found among current humans.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Bastage: 2:43am On Mar 25, 2009
You use twisted science and semantics to get your point across yet again.

this is nonsense . . . mtDNA is so large that it is implausible that mutations (which are rare, mostly deleterious to the organism and notoriously slow) will be responslible for wiping out every single trace of similarity between human and cockroach mtDNA. How come we can trace our mtDNA to a woman who allegedly lived 200,000 yrs ago?

You're comparing 200,000 years with billions of years? Utterly ridiculous. The fact is that mtDNA does mutate and the time-scale in question here is so vast that there's plenty of time for it to mutate beyond recognition. The only way your statement is relevant is if mankind were to evolve directly from the cockroach and nobody has suggested that at all.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by huxley(m): 2:48am On Mar 25, 2009
davidylan:

I provided my own scientific publication as the old fool (you know those who say there is no God) called Huxley asked me to do . . . why has he REFUSED to comment on it?

Speaking of mtDNA . . . did we really evolve from neanderthals? Science tells us the answer - [url=http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.0020057&ct=1]No Evidence of Neandertal mtDNA Contribution to Early Modern Humans[/url]

The retrieval of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences from four Neandertal fossils from Germany, Russia, and Croatia has demonstrated that these individuals carried closely related mtDNAs that are not found among current humans.



Sorry, I saw this but missed addressing it.   Nowhere I have I seen anyone assert that Homo Sapiens evolved from Neanderthal. In fact I posted a thread to this effect about 7 months ago.  Modern humans and Neanderthals are thought to be cousins on the evolutionary tree, but not on a  direct lineage line.   DNA studies have confirm that.

At some point it was thought that the two groups might have interbred, but that too has been discounted with genetic studies results.
Re: Creationism Or Evolution - Post Your Peer-review Articles Here And Lets Discuss by Nobody: 2:48am On Mar 25, 2009
Bastage:

You use twisted science and semantics to get your point across yet again.

You need two things to survive in the world of science - logic and common sense. these two seem to be things you lack. No insults intended honestly, just the facts at least as regards this issue. For instance i dont see you back up your claims with ANY facts to stimulate scientific thought.

Bastage:

You're comparing 200,000 years with billions of years? Utterly ridiculous. The fact is that mtDNA does mutate and the time-scale in question here is so vast that there's plenty of time for it to mutate beyond recognition. The only way your statement is relevant is if mankind were to evolve directly from the cockroach and nobody has suggested that at all.

You seem to not be someone conversant with biology AT ALL.

1. Mutations are notoriously slow and more often than not deleterious to the cell.

2. Based on the size of mtDNA, it is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS to claim (as usual without any proof) that mutations alone shld account for the inability to see any tangible differences between human and cockroach mitochondria EVEN THOUGH they both look exactly the same in terms of shape, size, function and genes produced.

3. How come mutations changed human and cockroach mtDNA so much and YET left both mitochondria essentially the same? What type of mutations are those?

4. Forget all that nonsense about timelines . . . you cant hide behind your finger here.

Show me scientific papers mr.

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