dmandy:


No its not... its in ur scriptures. I just listed them for u

Good....
Now I will let u answer the question urself by
giving you some attributes of saints according to
your bible.
1Pet 3:2 ......we shall be like him, for we shall see
him as he is.
How is God? Limited by time and space? And any
other constraints?
2. 1cor 13:12.... then we shall see face to face.
.... then I shall know fully even as I am fully
known.
3. Lk 15:10.... there will be rejoicinh in the
presence of God's angels over one sinner who
repents.
Telling me it doesn't matter where the sinner is
located... Enugu or shuan.
my brother heaven is not earth... your prayers are
not wait ing in a long quee to be answered.
Heaven is definitely outside of earth time. Your
Bible says a thousand years is like a second to
Him.

So lets look at the scriptures you just quoted.

Firstly. 1 Pet 3:2 ......"we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." Okay so if according to you we shall be like God in every way, then answer this questions:

1. Are we the saints going to be worshiped by angels just the same way they do God since we shall be like Him in every way like you said?

2. Are we going to be able to create planets and human beings just the same way God does?

3. "..Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be..." If the scripture says we don't know what we shall be right now, then how did you come to the conclusion that the Saints are Omniscient like God?


Secondly: "1cor 13:12.... then we shall see face to face.... then I shall know fully even as I am fully known."

I don't see how this scripture has to do with what we are talking about.

Thirdly: "Lk 15:10.... there will be rejoicing in the presence of God's angels over one sinner who repents."

It only speaks of angels here and not saints. Besides, angels have assignments they do on the earth, and Jesus said, "that the little one's, their angels always beholds the face the Father in heaven". So it should be no surprise that they rejoice in heaven when a sinner repents. And besides, angels are not Omnipresent that all of them know at the same time when a sinner repents.

Jeromejnr:


So lets look at the scriptures you just quoted.

Firstly. 1 Pet 3:2 ......"we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." Okay so if according to you we shall be like God in every way, then answer this questions:

1. Are we the saints going to be worshiped by angels just the same way they do God since we shall be like Him in every way like you said?

2. Are we going to be able to create planets and human beings just the same way God does?

3. "..Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be..." If the scripture says we don't know what we shall be right now, then how did you come to the conclusion that the Saints are Omniscient like God?


Secondly: "1cor 13:12.... then we shall see face to face.... then I shall know fully even as I am fully known."

I don't see how this scripture has to do with what we are talking about.

Thirdly: "Lk 15:10.... there will be rejoicing in the presence of God's angels over one sinner who repents."

It only speaks of angels here and not saints. Besides, angels have assignments they do on the earth, and Jesus said, "that the little one's, their angels always beholds the face the Father in heaven". So it should be no surprise that they rejoice in heaven when a sinner repents. And besides, angels are not Omnipresent that all of them know at the same time when a sinner repents.

ur questions...
1. No we will not be worshipped by angels for we are but their fellow messengers.

2. No, we may not create our own planets..... It doesn't mean we cannot if He gives us the power.

3. because the Bible says we shall be just like God... did the bible lie about that one too?

4. ur questions don't apply here.... because God said we shall be like him. It is not u nor I that will dictate which characterstics of Him that He will not give us. All He told us was that we will be like Him... and I want to be like him.



5. if u say the passage speaks of only angels then you have issues with English-language. And yet that doesn't negate the fact that they know a sinner anywhere.

6. The devil is able to tempt u and me and millions of others even simultaneously, Is the devil omnipresent or omniscient?

author=dmandy post=37425097

ur questions...
1. No we will not be worshipped by angels for we are but their fellow messengers.

2. No, we may not create our own planets..... It doesn't mean we cannot if He gives us the power.

3. because the Bible says we shall be just like God... did the bible lie about that one too?

4. ur questions don't apply here.... because God said we shall be like him. It is not u nor I that will dictate which characterstics of Him that He will not give us. All He told us was that we will be like Him... and I want to be like him.



5. if u say the passage speaks of only angels then you have issues with English-language. And yet that doesn't negate the fact that they know a sinner anywhere.

Okay, I can see your problem is comprehension. Look at that passage again and the previous two verses before it and see if it was talking about Righteousness or the ability to be Omniscient like God.

6. The devil is able to tempt u and me and millions of others even simultaneously, Is the devil omnipresent or omniscient?

And who told you the devil is the one tempting everyone himself? Doesn't he have other demons that help him? so according to you, the devil is Omniscient like God?

From this your statement alone,I can see you don't even know what you are talking about.

Jeromejnr:



And who told you the devil is the one tempting everyone himself? Doesn't he have other demons that help him? so according to you, the devil is Omniscient like God?

Is the above in your Bible as well?

dmandy:


Is the above in your Bible as well?

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

At least I have scriptural backing for what I say. Now you tell us where it says the Devil can exist in all places at once.

Jeromejnr:


"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

At least I have scriptural backing for what I say. Now you tell us where it says the Devil can exist in all places at once.

The bible already tells us that Mary and the saints are like God.

italo:


The bible already tells us that Mary and the saints are like God.

So you can worship them?

italo:


The bible already tells us that Mary and the saints are like God.

Where exactly is this in your bible ?

Jeromejnr:


So you can worship them?

So we can't doubt that they can hear prayers on earth, like God.

1Cor13:12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

1John3:2 We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is.

Benjibabs, are those verses missing from your bible or is your bible missing from your shelf?

italo:


So we can't doubt that they can hear prayers on earth, like God.

1Cor13:12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

1John3:2 We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is.

Benjibabs, are those verses missing from your bible or is your bible missing from your shelf?

You are reading your bible out of context. The two translations below will help you understand.

1 John 3Amplified Bible (AMP)
2 Beloved, we are [even here and] now God’s children; it is not yet disclosed (made clear) what we shall be [hereafter], but we know that when He comes and is manifested, we shall [as God’s children] resemble and be like Him, [b]for we shall see Him [c]just as He [really] is.

1 John 3The Message (MSG)
2-3 But friends, that’s exactly who we are: children of God. And that’s only the beginning. Who knows how we’ll end up! What we know is that when Christ is openly revealed, we’ll see him—and in seeing him, become like him. All of us who look forward to his Coming stay ready, with the glistening purity of Jesus’ life as a model for our own.

Pay attention to the portion in bold. We will be like him ONLY in the sense of seeing him as he his. When Jesus was here they could not see him in His full glory because they were still in the flesh. At the end of age when we have received our immortal body, we will be able to behold his full glory." To be like" him here does not include the ability to hear peoples' prayers at all, not to talk of hearing them simultaneously.

benjibabs:


You are reading your bible out of context. The two translations below will help you understand.

1 John 3Amplified Bible (AMP)
2 Beloved, we are [even here and] now God’s children; it is not yet disclosed (made clear) what we shall be [hereafter], but we know that when He comes and is manifested, we shall [as God’s children] resemble and be like Him, [b]for we shall see Him [c]just as He [really] is.

1 John 3The Message (MSG)
2-3 But friends, that’s exactly who we are: children of God. And that’s only the beginning. Who knows how we’ll end up! What we know is that when Christ is openly revealed, we’ll see him—and in seeing him, become like him. All of us who look forward to his Coming stay ready, with the glistening purity of Jesus’ life as a model for our own.

Pay attention to the portion in bold. We will be like him ONLY in the sense of seeing him as he his. When Jesus was here they could not see him in His full glory because they were still in the flesh. At the end of age when we have received our immortal body, we will be able to behold his full glory." To be like" him here does not include the ability to hear peoples' prayers at all, not to talk of hearing them simultaneously.

First of all, forget about the message bible that arbitrarily omits, adds to and changes the words of the bible to promote a false understanding.

The message omitted the following verses from the bible:

Matt 17:21
Matt 23:14
Mark 7:16
Mark 9:44
Mark 9:46
Mark 11:26
Mark 15:28
Luke 17:36
Luke 23:17
John 5:4
Acts 8:37
Acts 15:34
Acts 24:7
Acts 28:29
Romans 16:24
1 John 5:7 

And also omitted "but by every word of God" from Luke 4:4 amongst other distortions.

The Bible says "we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is."

Leave it at that.

Nowhere did the bible say 'it doesn't include hearing prayers.'

See this verse in your AMP and MSG:

1Cor13:12 For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as [e]in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand [f]fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been [g]fully and clearly known and understood [[h]by God].

1Cor13:12 We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We’ll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!

With all their editing and distorting, they didn't have the mind to omit the fact that in heaven "we shall know and understand fully and clearly."

Are you going to tell me that the saints know fully but do not know the prayers offered to God?

The bible also says "they are like angels." do angels not know the prayers said to God?

italo:


So we can't doubt that they can hear prayers on earth, like God.

1Cor13:12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

1John3:2 We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is.

Benjibabs, are those verses missing from your bible or is your bible missing from your shelf?

So you actually just took these scriptures out of context.

This has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

Jeromejnr:


So you actually just took these scriptures out of context.

This has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

For someone in heaven to be like God and to know fully has everything to do with everything because God himself is the source of everything.

Mary and the saints are like God and know fully, according to 1John3:2 and 1Cor13:12. If it is too painful for you to accept, then you can call those scriptures 'satanic' again, as you have done before...or you can manufacture a 'context' and tell us.

Afterall you said the bible is from the satanic Talmud...why should I expect you to believe it.

italo:


For someone in heaven to be like God and to know fully has everything to do with everything because God himself is the source of everything.

Mary and the saints are like God and know fully, according to 1John3:2 and 1Cor13:12. If it is too painful for you to accept, then you can call those scriptures 'satanic' again, as you have done before...or you can manufacture a 'context' and tell us.

Afterall you said the bible is from the satanic Talmud...why should I expect you to believe it.

Your error goes way too deep.

Jeromejnr:


Your error goes way too deep.

I'm not the one who wrote the Bible.

Tell that to St. Paul and St. John.

italo:


First of all, forget about the message bible that arbitrarily omits, adds to and changes the words of the bible to promote a false understanding.

The message omitted the following verses from the bible:

Matt 17:21
Matt 23:14
Mark 7:16
Mark 9:44
Mark 9:46
Mark 11:26
Mark 15:28
Luke 17:36
Luke 23:17
John 5:4
Acts 8:37
Acts 15:34
Acts 24:7
Acts 28:29
Romans 16:24
1 John 5:7 

And also omitted "but by every word of God" from Luke 4:4 amongst other distortions.

The Bible says "we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is."

Leave it at that.

Nowhere did the bible say 'it doesn't include hearing prayers.'

See this verse in your AMP and MSG:

1Cor13:12 For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as [e]in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand [f]fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been [g]fully and clearly known and understood [[h]by God].

1Cor13:12 We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We’ll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!

With all their editing and distorting, they didn't have the mind to omit the fact that in heaven "we shall know and understand fully and clearly."

Are you going to tell me that the saints know fully but do not know the prayers offered to God?

The bible also says "they are like angels." do angels not know the prayers said to God?

What different translations omit or add is a different story and there are acceptable explanations for their actions.

Back to the issue at hand, even in the translation you provided, the discussion is all around and in relation to knowing things about ourselves that we do not know now. I've expanded the ones you made bold in your post to include the rest of the scripture that will clarify your understanding. Right now, on earth, we only know few things about ourselves, but God knows us fully and completely. When we get to heaven, then we will have full understanding of ourselves just has God already knew us even while we were here.

Think about it, if Christians get to heaven and become all knowing (omniscient), hearing all peoples prayer (omnipresent) then they have become Gods! Those are characters of God that He does not share with anything.

italo:


I see!

So you believe God is God of the dead and not the living?

You believe that Jesus was lying when he said believers never die?

Look at the verses below:

King James Bible - Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did they die the day they ate the fruit? Did the bible lie?

King James Bible - Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Did the bible lie since Jesus said that God is the God of the living?

benjibabs:



What different translations omit or add is a different story and there are acceptable explanations for their actions.

Back to the issue at hand, even in the translation you provided, the discussion is all around and in relation to knowing things about ourselves that we do not know now. I've expanded the ones you made bold in your post to include the rest of the scripture that will clarify your understanding. Right now, on earth, we only know few things about ourselves, but God knows us fully and completely. When we get to heaven, then we will have full understanding of ourselves just has God already knew us even while we were here.

Think about it, if Christians get to heaven and become all knowing (omniscient), hearing all peoples prayer (omnipresent) then they have become Gods! Those are characters of God that He does not share with anything.

That moment when you add your words to scripture so it can suit your false doctrine.

The Bible says we will know and understand fully and clearly.

You added "ourselves" somewhere in there.

The Bible says we shall be like God.

You still haven't been able to explain how the saints are like God.

Work harder!

benjibabs:


Look at the verses below:

King James Bible - Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did they die the day they ate the fruit? Did the bible lie?

King James Bible - Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Did the bible lie since Jesus said that God is the God of the living?

Genesis talking about spiritual death.

Hebrews talking about earthly physical death.

Jesus talking about spiritual life.

Believers never die...meaning spiritual/eternal life never ends.

So Mary and the saints are spiritually alive.

Can the spiritually alive hear prayers on earth?

I say yes.

If you say no, how does God and the Angels hear prayers? Are they physical?

italo:


That moment when you add your words to scripture so it can suit your false doctrine.

The Bible says we will know and understand fully and clearly.

You added "ourselves" somewhere in there.

The Bible says we shall be like God.

You still haven't been able to explain how the saints are like God.

Work harder!

The "I" and "us" in red in my post refer to "ourselves". I did not add it. You missed that because you pulled out "we shall be like God" only from the sentence and disregarded the part that provided the explanation of how.

italo:


Genesis talking about spiritual death.

Hebrews talking about earthly physical death.

Jesus talking about spiritual life.

Believers never die...meaning spiritual/eternal life never ends.

So Mary and the saints are spiritually alive.

Can the spiritually alive hear prayers on earth?

I say yes.

If you say no, how does God and the Angels hear prayers? Are they physical?

Good! I'm happy you have understanding of physical and spiritual deaths. So, if Jesus was talking about spiritual life, how did you come to the conclusion that physically dead human being who are spiritually alife can communicate with people that are not physically dead? Please show me one example, just one, from the bible where someone who is not dead had any form of communication with dead but spiritually alife person. Just one example, bro.

benjibabs:


Good! I'm happy you have understanding of physical and spiritual deaths. So, if Jesus was talking about spiritual life, how did you come to the conclusion that physically dead human being who are spiritually alife can communicate with people that are not physically dead? Please show me one example, just one, from the bible where someone who is not dead had any form of communication with dead but spiritually alife person. Just one example, bro.

A person who is trying to evade truth can be identified by his refusal to answer simple questions.
Here are my questions again:

Can the spiritually alive hear prayers on earth?

I say yes.

If you say no, how does God and the Angels hear prayers? Are they physical?

benjibabs:


The "I" and "us" in red in my post refer to "ourselves". I did not add it. You missed that because you pulled out "we shall be like God" only from the sentence and disregarded the part that provided the explanation of how.

It's a lie. Here's your MSG translation.

1Cor13:12 We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We’ll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!

Nowhere does it say we'll see or know ourselves.

It says we'll see it all...and we'll know Him.

It's clear as daylight.

benjibabs:


Good! I'm happy you have understanding of physical and spiritual deaths. So, if Jesus was talking about spiritual life, how did you come to the conclusion that physically dead human being who are spiritually alife can communicate with people that are not physically dead? Please show me one example, just one, from the bible where someone who is not dead had any form of communication with dead but spiritually alife person. Just one example, bro.

Maybe this:
Matt 17:3
3And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah."

Ok sorry, you said communicating not talking. I will try another....

dmandy:


Maybe this:
Matt 17:3
3And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah."

Ok sorry, you said communicating not talking. I will try another....

Or maybe Elijah and Moses were still alive on earth when this happened...

Or maybe these anti-Catholics just don't read the Bible...

italo:


Or maybe Elijah and Moses were still alive on earth when this happened...

Or maybe these anti-Catholics just don't read the Bible...

@Italo,

Brother, u don't get it. Your man wants a verse in the Holy Book where it is explicitly written 'communication' not talking or any other thing. U de mind them?

I can assure you Sir, they read the Bible, they understand the Bible but the thing my brother is this; if they agree that you are right, of course you are (Hebrews 11:4- By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks), it therefore means that their hope of being in heaven alone is jeopardized. They don't want competition at all, only them are right... they rest are on high way to hell.

Yet the forgot what our lord said when they doubt certain things... they doubt the power of God above all things.

italo:


Or maybe Elijah and Moses were still alive on earth when this happened...

Or maybe these anti-Catholics just don't read the Bible...

Good job bro!

From your post:
Matt 17:3
Then the three disciples saw Moses and Elijah talking with Jesus.

Moses and Elijah only spoke with Jesus and that makes it an experience unique to Jesus. Moreover, that is totally different from what we are discussing here. Your example will only be acceptable if you confirm that Mary and the saints appear to you and you talk with them each time you offer your prayers to them. If you cannot confirm that, then please provide another example; again, just one. Just one, bro!

italo:


It's a lie. Here's your MSG translation.

1Cor13:12 We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We’ll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!

Nowhere does it say we'll see or know ourselves.

It says we'll see it all...and we'll know Him.

It's clear as daylight.

Again, you cannot just remove a portion of a sentence and throw the remaining part away; you run the risk of wrong interpretation.

It says we'll see it all...and we'll know Him. The sentence did not end at "all." Was the portion I painted red in your post not part of the sentence?

italo:


A person who is trying to evade truth can be identified by his refusal to answer simple questions.
Here are my questions again:

Can the spiritually alive hear prayers on earth?

I say yes.

If you say no, how does God and the Angels hear prayers? Are they physical?

LOL! You made a bold statement and want me to prove you wrong. If does not work that way, bro. Since you said yes, I need proof. So, provide scripture(s) to back up your stand first.

Mary and the Saints are in Heaven with God and with our Lord Christ. God hears all Prayers and can always make references to Saints who are now Spirits/Assistants to Him before answering any of our Prayers. So Holy Mary is indirectly involved in the management of all Prayers. Now, for some humours, all women in Christ are now daughters of Mary and are Maryleens. All Unbelieving women are daughters of Eve and all Eveleens.

benjibabs:


LOL! You made a bold statement and want me to prove you wrong. If does not work that way, bro. Since you said yes, I need proof. So, provide scripture(s) to back up your stand first.

Very simple to prove that the spiritually alive can hear prayers said on earth.

God is spiritually alive and he hears prayers.

The Angels too.

Jesus while on earth knew what men were thinking in their hearts.

John was shown things that were happening in heaven and on earth...even while he was on earth and "seeing dimly" and "knowing partially"...

For sure, now that he sees clearly and knows fully, he knows even more than he knew then.

Now do you insist that the spiritually alive cannot hear prayers?

If you do prove it.

italo:


Very simple to prove that the spiritually alive can hear prayers said on earth.

God is spiritually alive and he hears prayers.

The Angels too.

Jesus while on earth knew what men were thinking in their hearts.

John was shown things that were happening in heaven and on earth...even while he was on earth and "seeing dimly" and "knowing partially"...

For sure, now that he sees clearly and knows fully, he knows even more than he knew then.

Now do you insist that the spiritually alive cannot hear prayers?

If you do prove it.

What proof do you have of these?