twinskenny:
thanks chief
you know i called u sometime to confirm some figures from you..

.. the thing is coleman cannot even trust most of there distributor which still baffle me sir.. when i told them the prices i paid for those items they claimed its was actually fare prices

... now my question is why are they forcing people to buy from them direclty? i dont get it

below are the prices

1.5mm 7800 the sell 8750
2.5mm 12800 i believe they sell 14k there about
4mm 22,000 they sell like 23750
10mm 51k
16mm 78k

The bolded is quite interesting, and i beg to disagree.

Yes I recall. I also recall referring you to your dealer since you always spoke here about having a "dealer".

The Prices mean Nothing when the genuineness of the item cannot be guaranteed.

Who Exactly is this distributor you bought the fake cables from? why would they be mad if you buy from thier distributor?

COLELMAN will never pressure you to buy from them, infact they will encourage you to go through a distributor and If you have purchased any suspicious cable from a real Distributor, they will make effort to find out who the distributor is, unless of course you didnt buy from a real distributor or If the case was not referred to management.

twinskenny:

and by them checking on the signature on the label they knew its one of there accredited distributor, cause someone from there factory signed the label which they confirmed ...

twinskenny:

now the issue is not that the cable bought is not good but they claimed its not from there factory according to there meter reading or so to say

The two statements above are contradictory,
also saying they knew it was an accredited distributor from the label is also baffling, there's nothing elaborate about a two stroke sign when they could simply have asked you the name of the distributor.

twinskenny:


I am actually used to the solid 4mm not the strands type..

they claimed they stop producting that some two years back.. i was surprised.

It is not just a claim, COLEMAN stopped the production of solid 4mm and 6mm cables mid to late 2015. by the end of that year most of the old production had been mopped up. We were supplied stranded only, throughout 2016. So unless a seller is claiming to somehow have an over 2 years old stock which is next to impossible, its a FAKE. If you've been buying solids, you know what it is.

twinskenny:


I have to do a through test on the cable bought which has already been installed to be sure we are on a safer side.

Unless you intend to perform some type of laboratory test, I dont think there's much you can do under the circumstance.

oyb:



also, you measure the diameter of the entire core, not single strands

This is incorrect.

stranded cables are not measured or sized as a single core. AS That can vary widely depending on how tightly or loosely wound the strands are.
the nominal diameter of each strand and number of strands is determinant of the size.

For instance a standard 4mmsq single core stranded cable will have 7 strands of approx 0.85 mm dia

while a 6mmsq single core cable with 7 strands will have an applicable strand dia of 1.05mm

there are stranded wire data charts for these things.

spyder880:


I walked into the local government area, town planning section. They told me to leave and they will come and have a look at the street. The check was to ensure it had not been allocated before to a different person. Then they called me to confirm I can come and pay N85k for the approval. I waited a week before they agreed their Oga had signed for me to make the naming authentic. I paid another 8k or so to enable them buy paints and work on the welded name plate. They painted it themselves and wrote "approved by xyz local government"

They gave me a laminated signed certificate to keep. They also used their hand to write the street name on about 6 houses ,on walls and gates. They gave numbers, number 1 to number 6. And that is how I came to live at number 1 Akwusi anuba ogu street (translation of my street name means, stop in this street and we give you a beating)

Oh, and another 5k for their transportation back to office.

Thanks Spyder

allCopacetic:


This is incorrect.

stranded cables are not measured or sized as a single core. AS That can vary widely depending on how tightly or loosely wound the strands are.
the nominal diameter of each strand and number of strands is determinant of the size.

For instance a standard 4mmsq single core stranded cable will have 7 strands of approx 0.85 mm dia

while a 6mmsq single core cable with 7 strands will have an applicable strand dia of 1.05mm

there are stranded wire data charts for these things.

You're going to have a bad time if you do this on 185mm sq cable

allCopacetic:


The bolded is quite interesting, and i beg to disagree.

Yes I recall. I also recall referring you to your dealer since you always spoke here about having a "dealer".

The Prices mean Nothing when the genuineness of the item cannot be guaranteed.

Who Exactly is this distributor you bought the fake cables from? why would they be mad if you buy from thier distributor?

COLELMAN will never pressure you to buy from them, infact they will encourage you to go through a distributor and If you have purchased any suspicious cable from a real Distributor, they will make effort to find out who the distributor is, unless of course you didnt buy from a real distributor or If the case was not referred to management.



The two statements above are contradictory,
also saying they knew it was an accredited distributor from the label is also baffling, there's nothing elaborate about a two stroke sign when they could simply have asked you the name of the distributor.





It is not just a claim, COLEMAN stopped the production of solid 4mm and 6mm cables mid to late 2015. by the end of that year most of the old production had been mopped up. We were supplied stranded only, throughout 2016. So unless a seller is claiming to somehow have an over 2 years old stock which is next to impossible, its a FAKE. If you've been buying solids, you know what it is.


Unless you intend to perform some type of laboratory test, I dont think there's much you can do under the circumstance.

Oga

You don't seem to get it.... the distributor is well known by them still they claimed that client should always come to them... that's why I asked them what's the function of a distributor then?

The way the spoke oga they don't trust any distributor anymore....

Am going back there this morning with the distributor will let the house know how they will tackle each other....

allCopacetic:


This is incorrect.

stranded cables are not measured or sized as a single core. AS That can vary widely depending on how tightly or loosely wound the strands are.
the nominal diameter of each strand and number of strands is determinant of the size.

For instance a standard 4mmsq single core stranded cable will have 7 strands of approx 0.85 mm dia

while a 6mmsq single core cable with 7 strands will have an applicable strand dia of 1.05mm

there are stranded wire data charts for these things.

Remembered that early this year or so there are some 4mm a client asked me to pick from you they are solid not stranded?

Daboomb:


I really love this idea of yours.
What is the street name of these boron, borax or boric acid salts?
Where can one buy them off the shelf?

Thank you for the brilliant contributions you make, especially when it comes to paints, you are a cut above the rest.

Thank you for your kind words sir,
If you are to be specific, you would request for sodium borate or boric acid. They are the alkaline and the acidic boron salts.
they are commonly referred to as borax.
Here in lagos, most chemicals can be gotten at ojota chemical market. If they don't have in stock, they can surely source it if needed. They deal both with the chemical names and the brand or common names.
I've used the salts also, albeit for another purpose and it's relatively less toxic to humans. you could just wash your hands thoroughly with water and you are okay after use.

EgunMogaji:


I really miss your stories, Sir

How you used to take us along with you as you shop for materials, etc and point out pitfalls we could encounter as we build our own houses.

How are the estates you developed? Are they matured now very well?

My brother, the estates are going well, only that the government have been a little slow with opening access roads and this has made it very difficult for us to move into the area due to bad roads. We continue as soon as the roads improve.

twinskenny:


The way the spoke oga they don't trust any distributor anymore... .

Am going back there this morning with the distributor will let the house know how they will tackle each other....

Lol, ok o. If you say so @ bolded.

Do keep us posted.

twinskenny:


Remembered that early this year or so there are some 4mm a client asked me to pick from you they are solid not stranded?

I don't think so Sir,
The last solids i recall seeing are as far back as late 2016

oyb:


You're going to have a bad time if you do this on 185mm sq cable

On the contrary you'll have a bad time if you don't.
You need the diameter of just one strand. The number of strands is standard across a specific size category.

If you take the diameter as a whole you'll get an inflated figure, the larger the size the higher the inaccuracy. As such an undersized cable might appear within range.

Be aware the dia of a cable is not the size, cables are sized by cross-sectional area. A 2.5 single core cable has a cross sectional area of 2.5mmsq not a dia of 2.5mm.

armed with the dia, you can calculate the cross sectional area (for solids) or cross reference against a chart (for stranded)

oyb:

.....
a single core cable can be solid conductor or stranded. solid conductor is what is typically used for wiring houses, however, installers prefer flexible/stranded cable for connecting indoor and outdoor air conditioners

this is actually how i stumbled on coleman. for years all the ac installs i was involved in used some dodgy chinko/aba flex cable. at that point i did not know there was an alternative available locally, then we started having fires in the office with the acs as the point of origin. one of teh resolutions was to find a certifble cable as a replacement.i looked and i found coleman. we replaced all the chinko flex cables with coleman, and the fires stopped.

http://www.colemancables.com/products/catalogue/

you can also download their catalogues for further information


bottom line, there is stranded and solid core 4mm cable. what do you intend to do with the cable?

also, you measure the diameter of the entire core, not single strands

allCopacetic:


The bolded is quite interesting, and i beg to disagree.........

It is not just a claim, COLEMAN stopped the production of solid 4mm and 6mm cables mid to late 2015. by the end of that year most of the old production had been mopped up. We were supplied stranded only, throughout 2016. So unless a seller is claiming to somehow have an over 2 years old stock which is next to impossible, its a FAKE. If you've been buying solids, you know what it is.


Unless you intend to perform some type of laboratory test, I dont think there's much you can do under the circumstance.

I am trying to reconcile the two posts above.
@Oyb said the solution to the A.C fires is to use single strand/core 4mm cables, which he bought from Coleman.
@Alcopacetic said Coleman has stooped selling such single strand/core 4mm cables since late 2016 (almost one year ago).

Questions:
1. Is the above claim by @oyb true, in your own understanding?
2. Since Coleman does not sell single stran/core 4mm cables anymore, does that means that you also only sell stranded 4mm to your customers?
3. If that is also true, do you consider the safety implications of such sale if used for A.C install, going by the claims made by @oyb?

gbadexy:

Thank you for your kind words sir,
If you are to be specific, you would request for sodium borate or boric acid. They are the alkaline and the acidic boron salts.
they are commonly referred to as borax.
Here in lagos, most chemicals can be gotten at ojota chemical market. If they don't have in stock, they can surely source it if needed. They deal both with the chemical names and the brand or common names.
I've used the salts also, albeit for another purpose and it's relatively less toxic to humans. you could just wash your hands thoroughly with water and you are okay after use.

Thanks @gbadexy.

Daboomb:







I am trying to reconcile the two posts above.
@Oyb said the solution to the A.C fires is to use single strand/core 4mm cables, which he bought from Coleman.
@Alcopacetic said Coleman has stooped selling such single strand/core 4mm cables since late 2016 (almost one year ago).

Questions:
1. Is the above claim by @oyb true, in your own understanding?
2. Since Coleman does not sell single stran/core 4mm cables anymore, does that means that you also only sell stranded 4mm to your customers?
3. If that is also true, do you consider the safety implications of such sale if used for A.C install, going by the claims made by @oyb?

Flexible/stranded cable, stranded cable and solid cable are different types of cables.

4mm flex cable and 4mm stranded cable are not the same thing even though both are stranded. The size and number of strands differeciates them.

The flex has very high number of strands making the strands very tiny. This gives the cable flexibility.

adanny01:


Flexible/stranded cable, stranded cable and solid cable are different types of cables.

4mm flex cable and 4mm stranded cable are not the same thing even though both are stranded. The size and number of strands differeciates them.

The flex has very high number of strands making the strands very tiny. This gives the cable flexibility.

My question to you guys, which of the cables is better for AC load. What capacity of AC are we really talking about. 1hp, 2, of 3hp or in another way 10,000BTU or 12k, 14k or 25,000BTU

Daboomb:







I am trying to reconcile the two posts above.
@Oyb said the solution to the A.C fires is to use single strand/core 4mm cables, which he bought from Coleman.
@Alcopacetic said Coleman has stooped selling such single strand/core 4mm cables since late 2016 (almost one year ago).

Questions:
1. Is the above claim by @oyb true, in your own understanding?
2. Since Coleman does not sell single stran/core 4mm cables anymore, does that means that you also only sell stranded 4mm to your customers?
3. If that is also true, do you consider the safety implications of such sale if used for A.C install, going by the claims made by @oyb?

Not sure you read what I wrote.

The unwritten standard in connecting indoor and outdoor acs is with flexible cable. For years I had vendors on projects connecting the indoor and outdoor acs with no name cables. When we started having fires, I identified the no namecables as a possible source, identified Coleman as a manufacturer of flexible cable. We replaced all the no name flexible cables with Coleman flexible cables.

I hope this clarifies.

Daboomb:







I am trying to reconcile the two posts above.
@Oyb said the solution to the A.C fires is to use single strand/core 4mm cables, which he bought from Coleman.
@Alcopacetic said Coleman has stooped selling such single strand/core 4mm cables since late 2016 (almost one year ago).

Questions:
1. Is the above claim by @oyb true, in your own understanding?
2. Since Coleman does not sell single stran/core 4mm cables anymore, does that means that you also only sell stranded 4mm to your customers?
3. If that is also true, do you consider the safety implications of such sale if used for A.C install, going by the claims made by @oyb?

You misunderstood his post.

The solution to thier fires was in the choice of COLEMAN over the substandard chinese option, ...not in the choice of stranded over solid or solid over flexible.

You also seem to be confusing single core with solid core(single strand as u appear to perceive it)

single core cable can be solid core, stranded core or multi-wire (flexible)

What COLEMAN stopped producing is solid single cores for 4mm and 6mm . ( They still manufacture three core solids)

The choice of solid over stranded or stranded over flexible is informed by the intended application ( where and how the cable is to be laid and sometimes the termination points) .
Given the same load, the same amount of current will be drawn through all three types, and neither is a safety hazard as long as the quality of the conductor is the same.

In some countries all thier cables whether single or multiple core , from as low as 1.5mm are multi-wire (flexible) which is typically a more advantageous but far more expensive option.

Daboomb:


I am trying to reconcile the two posts above.
@Oyb said the solution to the A.C fires is to use single strand/core 4mm cables, which he bought from Coleman.

oyb:


For years I had vendors on projects connecting the indoor and outdoor acs with no name cables. When we started having fires, I identified the no namecables as a possible source, identified Coleman as a manufacturer of flexible cable. We replaced all the no name flexible cables with Coleman flexible cables.

I hope this clarifies.

Exactly.

He appears to have clarified while i was composing a reply

Greetings, comrade !. I came here to seek your opinions. I just bought a plot of land with a "face me and face you" foundation already on it. It happened that the width of the foundation is almost the same as my plan's width but Its length is longer. my question is "can I just do a german floor on the foundation and continue on my plan on the german floor instead of breaking the existing foundation? " Thanks.

Another set of 4mm picked at Coleman acredited seller I just perceived that the distributor my be playing game... am heading back to factory in the morning to have these checked... still have the others they rejected in the car... wil give feedback tomorrow

olawuyi78:
Greetings, comrade !. I came here to seek your opinions. I just bought a plot of land with a "face me and face you" foundation already on it. It happened that the width of the foundation is almost the same as my plan's width but Its length is longer. my question is "can I just do a german floor on the foundation and continue on my plan on the german floor instead of breaking the existing foundation? " Thanks.

If it were me, I would sit down with an Architect to make a comparison between the existing foundation and your intended one.

He can decide for you if it will suffice or you need to break it down.

Good luck on your project.

adanny01:


Flexible/stranded cable, stranded cable and solid cable are different types of cables.

4mm flex cable and 4mm stranded cable are not the same thing even though both are stranded. The size and number of strands differeciates them.

The flex has very high number of strands making the strands very tiny. This gives the cable flexibility.

Thank you.

But your explanation did not address the question, especially the third one, raised?
It has to do with suitability of the 4mm stranded wire for installing A.C's, Vs. the big, 4mm single core wire.



Edit: issue clarified now.

oyb:


Not sure you read what I wrote.

The unwritten standard in connecting indoor and outdoor acs is with flexible cable. For years I had vendors on projects connecting the indoor and outdoor acs with no name cables. When we started having fires, I identified the no namecables as a possible source, identified Coleman as a manufacturer of flexible cable. We replaced all the no name flexible cables with Coleman flexible cables.

I hope this clarifies.

Thank you.
I read your post wella sef.

The impression l got from reading your earlier post, wherein you started with defining single core Vs. flex/stranded 4mm cables, and then went to explain how a chinko "4mm flex" was causing fire and you later replaced it with the same type but "a Coleman" product, prompted my question.
It makes it look like your grouse was with the TYPE of cable (Core vs Flex) as l quoted in red color, in my post.

In other words, your post was about using "No Name" cables Vs. using "Recognised Name" Cables?
Not with the TYPE of Cable (Stranded/Flex Vs. Single core).

Thanks for the clarification.

EgunMogaji:


If it were me, I would sit down with an Architect to make a comparison between the existing foundation and your intended one.

He can decide for you if it will suffice or you need to break it down.

Good luck on your project.

Thanks my Oga. My plan is a simple 3-bedroom bungalow. I can't afford the service of an Architect now. It is going to be between me and my bricklayer. It is a kobo-kobo project in Hajj mufutau55's voice.

olawuyi78:
Greetings, comrade !. I came here to seek your opinions. I just bought a plot of land with a "face me and face you" foundation already on it. It happened that the width of the foundation is almost the same as my plan's width but Its length is longer. my question is "can I just do a german floor on the foundation and continue on my plan on the german floor instead of breaking the existing foundation? " Thanks.

I am not an architect but l know that a foundation is planned to carry and transmit certain "forces" of a building, to the ground, based on the shaped, size and height of the structure it will carry.

if your build and the one that foundation was designed for are not the same in the above specs, you might need your archy to tweak it to satisfy your own peculiar requirements otherwise, stress, compression, lateral and other forces that may come into play when your building is completed, may be too strong for that foundation and you know what the result of such scenario could be.

My advice: Since you cant even be too sure of what went into the composition (mix, depth, e.t.c) of that foundation, unless your qualified archy/Engineer says it is okay, don tbe penny-wise, pound-foolish.

Foundations are the worst thing to attempt to repair in a house, in terms of cost and effort, once you get it wrong (cant remember that guy's name, one that has Brabus issue. I think it is Q.C1 or something like that).

You can still use it for filling while giving yourself peace of mind.

Happy build.

olawuyi78:

Thanks my Oga. My plan is a simple 3-bedroom bungalow. I can't afford the service of an Architect now. It is going to be between me and my bricklayer. It is a kobo-kobo project in Hajj mufutau55's voice.

In that case, just dig the trough for the extension, raise it to the level of existing foundation but to give yourself some level of certainty, layer it with a coach of concrete-reinforced block (or better still, concrete) that spans the entire foundation, old and new, together.

That way, you would have coallesced the forces together, so to say.

Daboomb:


In that case, just dig the trough for the extension, raise it to the level of existing foundation but to give yourself some level of certainty, layer it with a coach of concrete-reinforced block (or better still, concrete) that spans the entire foundation, old and new, together.

That way, you would have coallesced the forces together, so to say.

thanks.

olawuyi78:
Greetings, comrade !. I came here to seek your opinions. I just bought a plot of land with a "face me and face you" foundation already on it. It happened that the width of the foundation is almost the same as my plan's width but Its length is longer. my question is "can I just do a german floor on the foundation and continue on my plan on the german floor instead of breaking the existing foundation? " Thanks.

@bold CAPITAL NO from an architect

Wonderful thread. I'm back... lol Good evening able comrades and architects friend

olawuyi78:

Thanks my Oga. My plan is a simple 3-bedroom bungalow. I can't afford the service of an Architect now. It is going to be between me and my bricklayer. It is a kobo-kobo project in Hajj mufutau55's voice.

As it is a bungalow you don't need to knock the old foundation down. Na Bungalow.......face me I face you na bungalow too but with a different name. All na semantics.

What you need to worry about is the structure of the existing foundation. What is the topography of the area? Is the existing foundation appropriate for the type of soil condition? If it's a swampy area, is the existing foundation fit for purpose?

How high is the existing foundation? Two courses? three? four? If it is a flood plain, you will need a higher foundation. These are the things you should worry about. If your bricklayer is experienced, you can both design a bungalow foundation with the above information in mind or kuku work with a draughtsman as a draughtsman will also give you a house plan as well.

If the soil type is unstable like sandy, clayey or swampy, you are better off saving up for a professional to ONLY design the foundation to save cost then continue with your bricklayer.

As you don't want to use the appropriate professionals, how are you going to register your plan with the local authority or is the face me I face you registered already?

diordaves:


As it is a bungalow you don't need to knock the old foundation down. Na Bungalow.......face me I face you na bungalow too but with a different name. All na semantics.

What you need to worry about is the structure of the existing foundation. What is the topography of the area? Is the existing foundation appropriate for the type of soil condition? If it's a swampy area, is the existing foundation fit for purpose?

How high is the existing foundation? Two courses? three? four? If it is a flood plain, you will need a higher foundation. These are the things you should worry about. If your bricklayer is experienced, you can both design a bungalow foundation with the above information in mind or kuku work with a draughtsman as a draughtsman will also give you a house plan as well.

If the soil type is unstable like sandy, clayey or swampy, you are better off saving up for a professional to ONLY design the foundation to save cost then continue with your bricklayer.

As you don't want to use the appropriate professionals, how are you going to register your plan with the local authority or is the face me I face you registered already?

The land is very dry and the foundation is in a good condition ; like 6 month old. The land is somewhere in osogbo where you don't need to wait for your plan to be approved before you start building. The norm here is "buy and start building. " The local authority will surely come and write STOP WORK but you can sort it out with them later. I have actually drawn a plan I want to work with. I got some floor plans on nairaland from which I chose the one I like and I slightly modified it. Thanks for the advice.