Jozzy4:


Nope ! That will contradict 1 cor 8:6 for us there is one God , THE FATHER . ONLY THE FATHER .

@bold, why does joz only post that part:
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
The whole verse is another verse that shows Jesus Christ along with the Father is God.

But we are also one in the same sense ! John 17:22 , Does it mean we are Almighty God and a part of trinity too?

Dumb, no understanding.

Check the numbers ! Just admit you serve TWO Gods .

You don't understand how the Father and the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is needed,
it's you who say the Father and the Son is two God's
Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Thats why God prayed to the other God the Father . And when God 1 died , the other God didnt die .

Has anyone in this place less understanding than this one

We are also one In The same sense (john 17:22)

twisting, playing with the scriptures, it's all you do

Since It was God that was manifested in the FLESH , do you now admit Mary is the mother of God ?

I explained it very well, but you are not serious, truth is foreign to you, you cannot possibly understand

Spurious Text .

believer of jw says scripture is not true:

johnw74: 1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Emusan, it's useless discussing with lex, when it's so obvious that it's the Father talking of the son Jesus christ in Hebrew 1:8 and he cannot see it, that just shows what mixing the Bible with the koran will do.

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The Father is the God of the Son-Jesus Christ (verse 9)
The Son is God (verse eight)
The Father and the Son are the one God
only Christians with the Holy spirit can understand this
Because non believers have been blinded and have no understanding of the truth, they don't believe, and change what the scriptures say

lexiconkabir:
@Emusan, since you refused to complete the verse in order not to nail yourself, i will complete it myself to prove my point. heb1:8(NIV) "But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom." now do you still think God was talking to jesus? is God calling jesus "O God"? pls tell me if i'm just bringing islamic teachings here!

johnw74:


There is no point discussing with someone who thinks Hebrews 1:6 is talking about Adam.
I'm not interisted in discussing the Bible in comparison with the koran either.

ok, even if the proof is glary, cant you read the bible for once the way it is? not the way you were thought. you said its a no point discussing with me, you can atleast prove me wrong.

johnw74:
Emusan, it's useless discussing with lex, when it's so obvious that it's the Father talking of the son Jesus christ in Hebrew 1:8 and he cannot see it, that just shows what mixing the Bible with the koran will do.

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The Father is the God of the Son-Jesus Christ (verse 9)
The Son is God (verse eight)
The Father and the Son are the one God
only Christians with the Holy spirit can understand this
Because non believers have been blinded and have no understanding of the truth, they don't believe, and change what the scriptures say

well, since you are the type that are among "well i believe in it anyway, it cant be false", then its ok.

lexiconkabir:
ok, even if the proof is glary, cant you read the bible for once the way it is? not the way you were thought. you said its a no point discussing with me, you can atleast prove me wrong.

No one could prove anything to someone who thinks Hebrews 1:6 is about Adam.
And I usually don't waste time answering confusion:

lexiconkabir:
well, since you are the type that are among "well i believe in it anyway, it cant be false", then its ok.

johnw74:

No one could prove anything to someone who thinks Hebrews 1:6 is about Adam.

ok

johnw74:


@bold, why does joz only post that part:
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
The whole verse is another verse that shows Jesus Christ along with the Father is God.

But to us there is one God , The Father - scripture

But to me there is one God, The Father and Son - Johnw74

Who is lying between both of you ?

You don't understand how the Father and the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is needed,
it's you who say the Father and the Son is two God's
Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord [size=26]our God[/size] is one Lord:

Deu 6:4 , hehehe Jesus said " OUR GOD" , lol he include himself . But you are too brain.washed to see that . Check the bold sized

How beautiful would've been to reply your post but immediately I came across this YOUR DAY LIGHT LIE, I know you're just exhibiting the habit of your organization, saying something today change it tomorrow OR contradict the previous statement. What an organization, what a followers! So I have to point it out before I continue with you.

This is from your previous post.

dolphinheart:
I will show you my understanding of the verse by quoting it and also adding more info in bracket.

John 5: 19-23:
19 So Jesus explained, “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing( your deity, Jesus, said he only does what he sees the father doing, he does not do anything of his own initiative, yet some say the father and son are equal, how can they be equal when the son does not take any action unless the father tells him to? ) . Whatever the Father does, the Son also does( can you see superiority here too, no verse in the bible ever says "whatever the son does, the father also does"wink. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything he is doing( the father teaches the son ). In fact, the Father will show him how to do even greater works than healing this man( the father will still teach the son how to do greater things in the future). Then you will truly be astonished. 21 For just as the Father gives life to those he raises from the dead, so the Son gives life to anyone he wants. (the father has giving the son the ability and taught him how to raise the dead) 22 In addition, the Father judges no one. [size=14pt]Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority[/size] to judge, ( the father gave the son the authority, at a Particular time Jesus never had the authority ) 23 ( since the father has giving this authority to the son , what happens next) so that( the word "so" links verse 23 to verse 22 ) everyone will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son is certainly not honoring the Father who sent him.

Pay attention to the @color part especially the @underline, now see what you said later in your second post below.

No , jehovah has not taking back the authority. [size=14pt]Bro, the authority giving to Jesus is not absolute!. The scriptures never said absolute authority.[/size] The scriptures explains that despite Jesus being giving authority , he is still subject to the father who gave him the authority. So in no way was Jesus ever equal to the father in authority at any point in time

So which scripture did you quote in the first place that said Jesus was given ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY?
Can you see how you plainly deny scriptural evidence?


Clear this mess before I reply to your post.

*NOTE: Don't try to modify your post because I've taken screenshot of it.

Emusan:
How beautiful would've been to reply your post but immediately I came across this YOUR DAY LIGHT LIE, I know you're just exhibiting the habit of your organization, saying something today change it tomorrow OR contradict the previous statement. What an organization, what a followers! So I have to point it out before I continue with you.

This is from your previous post.



Pay attention to the @color part especially the @underline, now see what you said later in your second post below.



So which scripture did you quote in the first place that said Jesus was given ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY?
Can you see how you plainly deny scriptural evidence?


Clear this mess before I reply to your post.

*NOTE: Don't try to modify your post because I've taken screenshot of it.

Initially I thought your reference to "absolute authority" was in relation to jesus statement "all authority has been giving me "- Matt 28:18.
With such understanding in mind , I said the authority given to jesus is not absolute! , for the scriptures help us to know that despite all authority being giving to jesus, he is still subjected to the one who gave him such authority . So in the aspect of authority , jesus is not equal to the one who gave him such authority.

Ill like to admit some few things here. The translation I use mostimes do not say " absolute", and neither did most other translations use that word, but because I felt you would start arguing on translations, I decided to use one that might be acceptable to you. I bet you might have focused on the discussion and not on the word "absolute" if I've used numerous other translations that did not use the word. As I'm not a scholar who knows all the words used by each translation, i decided to look at what those verses in different translation, using different words is trying to tell us in general.

I also admit that I should not have said to you in particular that " the bible did not say "absolute authority " cus I should have remembered how you twist words .

Now let's look at the scriptures again . Jesus did not say he was "giving absolute authority" but said he was giving " absolute authority to judge " .
All the translation agree to these and if you had not cut that part "to judge" off from ur Statement, probably this issue would not have come up.
I know you are trying to bring the equality of jesus with God up with word "absolute authority" , but it will still not work, cus even if we use the word absolute in describing the authority giving to jesus, he is still subjected to the one who gave him such absolute authority! .

Or do you think jesus is equal to God cus of the authority he was giving? .

I know you might still argue with my explanation, but I posted it this way so that people who have humility in their heart and who want to know the truth can understand why I said jesus was not giving absolute authority to make him God almighty . For I know that no matter the authority giving to jesus, it does not make him equal to God. And I can bet that you, emusan, knows that too.
I do wish you could stick to the discussion on what the bible says about jesus and not keep making remarks about an organization, Everyone knows how you feel about them and knows you will never say good things about them . And pls keep derogatory statements out of our discussion

I will not need to change my previous post, if i do say something wrong Bro, I'm humble enough to accept them and apologise. I dnt act like a "lord of all" .

Now I hope we can move on to your proper reply on my post and express your views on the scriptures and not an organization.

You said you're "humble enough to accept them and apologise" but instead of you to do as you claimed, you went further to lay many accusation on me and trying to put the blame on me again.

dolphinheart:
Initially I thought your reference to "absolute authority" was in relation to jesus statement "all authority has been giving me "- Matt 28:18.
With such understanding in mind , I said the authority given to jesus is not absolute! , for the scriptures help us to know that despite all authority being giving to jesus, he is still subjected to the one who gave him such authority . So in the aspect of authority , jesus is not equal to the one who gave him such authority.

I can't stop just laughing, did I quote any scripture in my post? You just decided to reason beyond my own mind.
Beside, What is the different between ABSOLUTE and ALL? If I may ask because I see you trying to make it looks different.

Ill like to admit some few things here. The translation I use mostimes do not say " absolute", and neither did most other translations use that word, but because I felt you would start arguing on translations, I decided to use one that might be acceptable to you. I bet you might have focused on the discussion and not on the word "absolute" if I've used numerous other translations that did not use the word. As I'm not a scholar who knows all the words used by each translation, i decided to look at what those verses in different translation, using different words is trying to tell us in general.

Now shifting the blame on TRANSLATION, were you not the one who quoted it or didn't you read what you quoted or are you saying the translation you used isn't correct?
Again, YOU FELT I WOULD START ARGUING ON TRANSLATION reading my mind always you must be like my Grandmother.

I also admit that I should not have said to you in particular that " the bible did not say "absolute authority " cus I should have remembered how you twist words.

Now blackmailing me of twisting words when you're the one messing yourself up here. keep blaming me for your lie.
You quoted verses from a particular translation in which you yourself inserted your OWN words in bracket but you couldn't see that.

Now let's look at the scriptures again . Jesus did not say he was [size=14pt]"giving absolute authority"[/size] but said he was giving [size=14pt]"absolute authority to judge ".[/size]
All the translation agree to these and if you had not cut that part "to judge" off from ur Statement, probably this issue would not have come up.

Anyone reading this your post can see how funny you sound, now the Absolute Authority is only to judge. Continue to fool yourself.

I know you are trying to bring the equality of jesus with God up with word "absolute authority" , but it will still not work, cus even if we use the word absolute in describing the authority giving to jesus, he is still subjected to the one who gave him such absolute authority! .

Or do you think jesus is equal to God cus of the authority he was giving?

This is another place that shows how pathetic you sound and baseless your point is because I've already stated in my initial post that the Father is superior to Jesus in Authority and Position. So reading my mind once again to draw your faulty analysis won't save you here. deal with your lie!

I know you might still argue with my explanation, but I posted it this way so that people who have humility in their heart and who want to know the truth can understand why [size=14pt]I said jesus was not giving absolute authority to make him God almighty.[/size] For I know that no matter the authority giving to jesus, it does not make him equal to God. And I can bet that you, knows that too.

I know JWs' problem is the @bold part they hate anything that makes Jesus God and fail to give Jesus the glory that belongs to Him.
Matthew 28 says "ALL AUTHORITY... and it's only God that has ALL AUTHORITY which means if Jesus is not God then Jehovah has raised a CREATED BEING to His own level.

I do wish you could stick to the discussion on what the bible says about jesus and not keep making remarks about an organization, Everyone knows how you feel about them and knows you will never say good things about them. And pls keep derogatory statements out of our discussion

@bold & @underline-Yes the honest people do and know I don't say things out of my own head against JW but [b]ALWAYS USE JWs OWN WRITINGS as my prove which none of you have never disprove. In fact this is evident that one Jws on this Forum was calling me "Mr. Jehovah witness says"
When I say your organization changes their words or contradict their previous statement or even lie, your own is to ask for a prove and if I failed to provide them then I'll agree with you but as it stands now my statement still remains valid.

I will not need to change my previous post, if i do say something wrong Bro, I'm humble enough to accept them and apologise. I dnt act like a "lord of all".

Did you tender your apology? No! Instead you find another avenue to put all the blame on me and the translation.
You should have just said in a simple sentence that it was a mistake and I'm sorry so that everything will just die down but you went ahead to accuse me and wrote another ridiculous post.

Now I hope we can move on to your proper reply on my post and express your views on the scriptures and not an organization.

It will, but let me conclude this part about AUTHORITY with your own word from the first statement in this post so that I won't deal with it again as I'll continue to enlighten you in that your post. "So in the aspect of authority, Jesus is not equal to the one who gave him such authority."

Emusan:
You said you're "humble enough to accept them and apologise" but instead of you to do as you claimed, you went further to lay many accusation on me and trying to put the blame on me again.



I can't stop just laughing, did I quote any scripture in my post? You just decided to reason beyond my own mind.
Beside, What is the different between ABSOLUTE and ALL? If I may ask because I see you trying to make it looks different.



Now shifting the blame on TRANSLATION, were you not the one who quoted it or didn't you read what you quoted or are you saying the translation you used isn't correct?
Again, YOU FELT I WOULD START ARGUING ON TRANSLATION reading my mind always you must be like my Grandmother.



Now blackmailing me of twisting words when you're the one messing yourself up here. keep blaming me for your lie.
You quoted verses from a particular translation in which you yourself inserted your OWN words in bracket but you couldn't see that.



Anyone reading this your post can see how funny you sound, now the Absolute Authority is only to judge. Continue to fool yourself.



This is another place that shows how pathetic you sound and baseless your point is because I've already stated in my initial post that the Father is superior to Jesus in Authority and Position. So reading my mind once again to draw your faulty analysis won't save you here. deal with your lie!



I know JWs' problem is the @bold part they hate anything that makes Jesus God and fail to give Jesus the glory that belongs to Him.
Matthew 28 says "ALL AUTHORITY... and it's only God that has ALL AUTHORITY which means if Jesus is not God then Jehovah has raised a CREATED BEING to His own level.



@bold & @underline-Yes the honest people do and know I don't say things out of my own head against JW but [b]ALWAYS USE JWs OWN WRITINGS as my prove which none of you have never disprove. In fact this is evident that one Jws on this Forum was calling me "Mr. Jehovah witness says"
When I say your organization changes their words or contradict their previous statement or even lie, your own is to ask for a prove and if I failed to provide them then I'll agree with you but as it stands now my statement still remains valid.



Did you tender your apology? No! Instead you find another avenue to put all the blame on me and the translation.
You should have just said in a simple sentence that it was a mistake and I'm sorry so that everything will just die down but you went ahead to accuse me and wrote another ridiculous post.



It will, but let me conclude this part about AUTHORITY with your own word from the first statement in this post so that I won't deal with it again as I'll continue to enlighten you in that your post. "So in the aspect of authority, Jesus is not equal to the one who gave him such authority."

My admissions :
I admit that in posting that translation , i did not fully know or take note of all the words present in that translation. I based my explanation and knowledge on other translations I'm used to .
In general and in complete quotation , does the translation I quoted mean something different from other translation that did not use the word "absolute"? My answer is no. Looking at all the scriptures quoted so far , we know that jesus being giving "all authority" or "absolute authority" does not make him equal to God!. This is the basis of the discussion we are having as the presence or absence of the word "absolute " does not change jesus position in terms of who is superior in authority between him and the true God(the father).

I also admit that I should not have used the sentence " the authority giving to jesus is not absolute" cus apparently we see some translations use that word when talking about jesus authority to judge.

My apology:
I apologise for the use of the sentence as stated above as it is not right for me to express it that way . The underlying reasons for saying such words has been explained in previous post.

Now that the issue is cleared, we can move on back to the discussion.
The question arises on the issue of authority:
(a)If it is accepted that jesus is not equal to God on the issue of authority, can we rightly say that prior to jesus coming to earth , he did not have that authority as he was not giving then ?
(b) that once jesus came to earth, he also was not equal to God in authority ?
(c) and upon his asscention to heaven as a spirit creature,and till this moment we are discussing, he still does not have the same authority as the father( the one true God, his God)?
(d) that we can say jesus is a God, a mighty God , but he is not almighty as he has someone superior to him in the past , when he came to earth , and in the future?
Will like to hear ur reply on these .

To other aspects : (e) what of power , expecially power to ressurect , was jesus giving that power too?. Is jesus equal to God in power ?
(f) what about knowledge, does jesus know everything the father knows?

Now to the issue of organization , you have issues with the organization , that is accepted, but on these thread we are discussing on the bible in general .
I said that you do not say anything positive about the organization despite your mentioning them several times. Is there nothing good in ur eyes to say about them?
If there is something good about the organization, why do you not
Say it ? Or have you decided to talk only about what you feel is wrong about the organization?

Note: you can laugh at my post, but I wunt join you , I see laughter during serious discussion as a way of winning arguments and do not pass on any information with the laughter.

I will not use any deamining word towards ur posts

I have been following this thread and believe me, you guys will never stop arguing.. only an experiential knowledge with the person of the holyghost can truly tell whether or not Jesus should be worshiped.. from the little experience I have with the holyghost, I can tell the world boldly that Jesus is lord, and should be worshiped. God the father should be worshiped and even the holyghost should be worshiped. this is a mystery which you can never understand by studying the Greek and Hebrew rendering of the Bible....a word is enough for the wise.

dolphinheart:
Ok ill try and see if I'm able to get the quote method.

You got it this time but still learn how to make use of it fully because you're still giving me some tedious work of copy and paste.

So those words where were ur own and where were never used in the bible.
Pls show me where I used words that I can't defend using the scriptures.

No there are yours! Like I pointed it out earlier you quite knew that it's just A VIEW NOT DIRECTLY quotation from the Bible but you still just want to attack strawman.

I quoted a scripture that says " the word became flesh ". This you sidestepped in ur reply. The noble did not say "the word took on flesh " but "became flesh".

And I'm didn't tell you that my explanation is on that verse, did I? Continue to attack strawman again.

What do you understand by " word became flesh"?

He took share in humanity

So what did jesus come to earth with?
In what way does ur statement support the "took on flesh" statement you made earlier?

His divine nature.
In every ways.

Can you provide prove that jesus went back to heaven with his flesh ?
I read 1 peter 3:18 and that place said " made alive in spirit" in reference to jesus ressurection.
Jesus died in the flesh, he was made alive in the spirit .
This form of ressurection is what humans who hoped to enter into Gods kingdom believe in for paul said "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God ".
Remember jesus is the first fruit of those who are to be ressurrected , if jesus where ressurected with his fleshly body , he would not have been the first for there were previous fleshly ressurections before jesus ressurection.

Many proves are in the Bible for FLESHY resurrection of Jesus Christ
1. Jesus answered and said to them, [size=14pt]"Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."[/size] 20 Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21 [size=14pt]But He was speaking of the temple of His body.[/size] He didn't say "in three days I will BUILD/FABRICATE/GET another body but RAISE IT UP.

2. He didn't fabricate another BODIES (Plural-like your organization teaches) but show the same PRINTED NAILS and side wounded body to the doubting Thomas.

3. The tomb was empty which is the evidence Jesus gave to the eyes witness Disciples to confirm His statement in John 2:19-21 that the TEMPLE will be destroyed in three days and raise it up. If Jesus' body diffused into air as you believe then Jesus is lying to have said He will RAISE IT UP

Many people are said to be "IN THE SPIRIT" in the Bible so using this as a support that Jesus never resurrected with His body contradicts His own statement.

Jesus is the first fruit ressurected in the spirit and annointed christians hope to follow this form of ressurection
"Just as there are fleshly bodies, there are also spiritual bodies". Read 1 cor 15 : 44.

Now can you show me where in the Bible that ANOINTED CHRISTIAN hope for this form of resurrection? Waiting for your Biblical support.

I deliberately did that, I changed the father to the only true God . Does the bible support my view ?
Yes, for jesus called the father the " only true God"
In john 17:1-3.
1 cor 8:5,6 also helps us to know which God we should worship, I encourage you to read it.

You deliberate did it, that's nonsense.
You believe Jesus is A GOD then is Jesus a FALSE GOD OR A TRUE GOD?
Where in 1 Corin 8:5-6 that shows which God to be worshiped?

Now let My reasoning faculty analyze what you just said
The father(only true God) has superior position and authority over jesus.
The father is equal to jesus just as I'm equal to the president cus we are both nigerian citezens.

From the above, we can agree that jesus is a "God" , but he is not the "almighty God" cus the father is superior to him.

Answered!!!

Apart from position and authority , is there any other way the father is superior to jesus?
Knowledge- the father is superior to jesus cus jesus said he learnt from the father and there are still greater things for him to learn(to be shown ). Jesus also told his disciples that there are certain things he did not know , but only the father( the only true God knows).

Power- jesus received the power he used to perform his wonderful works from God. Read acts 10: 38.

According to my Bible Jesus is the POWER of God and through God's Knowledge the depth were broken up which is the act of creation and everything is done through The Word of God which will know on earth as Jesus.

Unless you will tell me that God created His own knowledge and power.

Jesus said there is only one father who is in heaven.

That means Isaiah was lying when he said the Child will be called EVERLASTING FATHER

Read john 5 : 19 to 23 again .
You will know why the son does what the father does. Everything the son does, he learnt from the father.

The point is not why the Son does what the Father does but THE SAME HONOUR THAT GOES TO THE FATHER MUST GO TO THE SON that's the point here

Yes you are right, but his loyalty and love for the father made jesus not to do his own will, I never said jesus does not have his own will. Jesus has subjected his will to the will of the father.
Now john 17:2 helps us to understand that this particular ability of jesus was giving or granted to him by the father.

And after it was granted unto Him, He then says YOU SHOULD HONOUR HIM EVEN AS/JUST AS YOU WILL HONOUR THE FATHER.

Yes , if jehovah(the almighty) came to earth himself , ill worship him as the almighty God. I will also honor him as ill do the almighty god . [size=14pt]But if he sends a messenger , a representative, ill honor that one as a representative of the almighty God.[/size] The previous verse 22 let's us udderstand why he said all will honor him as they honor the father.

Then what is the essence of the SEAL AND AUTHORITY placed on the representative if not because Jehovah wants you to SEE and DO TO THE REPRESENTATIVE just the way you will see and do to Him?

That's why, if a President sent a representative to an occasion to my own understanding and how I see people doing it.
The representative will be addressed with Your Excellency Sir, Mr President some can then attach in the person of so so... to it or some will just continue.

[size=14pt]The honor you give a person is determined by the value or weight that person holds in you.[/size] The father loved us , he sent his son, I honor him for that . The son did not do his own thing, he did what the father sent him to do , I honor him for that . I also honor The son cause he has been giving authority to perform acts that might lead me to evalasting life and can't gain such life if I dnt follow him.

Now the AUTHORITY does not limit to judge alone keep fooling yourself.

I still see the @bold part as attacking a strawman because we're not talking of the How honour you give determined the value the person holds in you [size=14pt]but EQUIVALENT OF THE HONOUR YOU GAVE TO ONE MUST BE GIVEN TO THE OTHER PERSON[/size] ...haba enough of this your twisting tongue.
Jesus said "EVEN AS/JUST AS you honour the Father" point is anyhow you HONOUR THE FATHER HONOUR THE SON IN THE SAME WAY.

If I tell someone:
-Respect me the way/even/just as you respect your parent
-Honour me the way/even/just as you honour your mother
-Fear me the way/even/just as you fear you Father

This doesn't mean that the person must valued his/her parent more than me BUT it's crystal cleared to everyone hearing my voice at that time that [B]I'M DEMANDING FOR EQUAL RESPECT, HONOUR AND FEAR from such fellow.[/b]

So forget about this your jumbo jumbo twisting, IN ANYWAY YOU HONOUR JEHOVAH (which you know within yourself) JESUS DEMANDS FOR SUCH HONOUR ALSO! Very Simple.

The father was superior to Jesus while he was on earth , the father is also superior to Jesus when he went back to heaven.

Answered!!!

dolphinheart:
My admissions :
I admit that in posting that translation , i did not fully know or take note of all the words present in that translation. I based my explanation and knowledge on other translations I'm used to .
In general and in complete quotation , does the translation I quoted mean something different from other translation that did not use the word "absolute"? My answer is no. Looking at all the scriptures quoted so far , we know that jesus being giving [size=14pt]"all authority" or "absolute authority" does not make him equal to God!. This is the basis of the discussion we are having as the presence or absence of the word "absolute " does not change jesus position in terms of who is superior in authority between him and the true God(the father).

So you have to quote TRANSLATION YOU'RE NOT USED TO and you couldn't check the wording very well. That's how your organization behave I'm sorry to say it again.

@bold- [b]Only God has ALL or ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY, TRUE or FALSE?

I also admit that I should not have used the sentence " the authority giving to jesus is not absolute" cus apparently we see some translations use that word when talking about jesus authority to judge.

Now the AUTHORITY HAS BEEN LIMITED only TO JUDGE... SMH

My apology:
I apologise for the use of the sentence as stated above as it is not right for me to express it that way . The underlying reasons for saying such words has been explained in previous post.

Apology accepted, but you haven't apologize for wrongly accuse me.

Now that the issue is cleared, we can move on back to the discussion.
The question arises on the issue of authority:
(a)If it is accepted that jesus is not equal to God on the issue of authority, can we rightly say that prior to jesus coming to earth , he did not have that authority as he was not giving then ?
(b) that once jesus came to earth, he also was not equal to God in authority ?
(c) and upon his asscention to heaven as a spirit creature,and till this moment we are discussing, he still does not have the same authority as the father( the one true God, his God)?
(d) that we can say jesus is a God, a mighty God , but he is not almighty as he has someone superior to him in the past , when he came to earth , and in the future?
Will like to hear ur reply on these .

To other aspects : (e) what of power , expecially power to ressurect , was jesus giving that power too?. Is jesus equal to God in power ?
(f) what about knowledge, does jesus know everything the father knows?

This is ABO WA BA in Yoruba means we'll trash this later.

Now to the issue of organization , you have issues with the organization , that is accepted, but on these thread we are discussing on the bible in general.

I don't have issue with your organization but putting the light of the scripture in the eyes of the people whom those who opposes the truth or perverted the Word of God have covered.

I said that you do not say anything positive about the organization despite your mentioning them several times. Is there nothing good in ur eyes to say about them?

Maybe because they fall in the category of those people I mentioned above.
Beside, Devil is a liar and the father of it. Your organization lies a lot maybe you know it but the fear of dis-fellowship still holding you back or you don't know which you can challenge me to provide the evidence. Can God lie?

If there is something good about the organization, why do you not
Say it ? Or have you decided to talk only about what you feel is wrong about the organization?

Every human being are not perfect but when God USED anybody the outcome is perfect, your organization claimed to be used by God but still lying and changing previous message, is that how God works?

My first post on this thread about the OP was "New generation of JWs don't worship Jesus but their founder Russell and his successors do so for over good 50years.

I wonder who is right between the founder and the followers or should I call it confusion, and the fate of those JWs who have been taught that worshiping Jesus is scriptural.

If it is Jehovah that truly called Russell, why Jehovah couldn't tell him that worshiping Jesus is idolatry but allowed Russell to die as an idolater?

NOTE: Am I lying about this? Is this how God works in the history of man?

Note: you can laugh at my post, but I wunt join you , I see laughter during serious discussion as a way of winning arguments and do not pass on any information with the laughter.

I will not use any deamining word towards ur posts

You have your life you can do anything you like with it.

Appleyard:


Question: did Peter accepted the worship? No!

Vs 26

But Peter took him up, saying, stand up; i myself am also am a man.

Cornelius wanted to show respect to Peter, but Peter didnt accept that kind of worship, knowing that only God can be woorship. So Peter was never worshipped in the actual sense.

[KJV] 1 Chronicles 29:20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king.

Start worshiping David.

Also read Daniel 2:46 where Nebuchadnezzar "worshiped" Daniel, KJV.

So start worshiping Daniel.

You want more?

JMAN05:


[KJV] 1 Chronicles 29:20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king.

Start worshiping David.

Also read Daniel 2:46 where Nebuchadnezzar "worshiped" Daniel, KJV.

So start worshiping Daniel.

You want more?

Lol

Rev 3:9 King James Bible
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, Which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


From the above , Even Jesus followers are worshipped !

Let them continue in delusion : John 4:23 said it all

JMAN05:


[KJV] 1 Chronicles 29:20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king.

Start worshiping David.

Also read Daniel 2:46 where Nebuchadnezzar "worshiped" Daniel, KJV.

So start worshiping Daniel.

You want more?

The lengths you go to, to try and discredit all the Bible verses that say Jesus Christ is to be worshiped.
It's evil for sure.

Jozzy4:


But to us there is one God , The Father - scripture

But to me there is one God, The Father and Son - Johnw74

Who is lying between both of you ?

Who is lying you ask?
you quoted something, whether I believe it or not, that I didn't say:

But to me there is one God, The Father and Son - Johnw74

of course it's you who are lying

johnw74:

You don't understand how the Father and the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is needed,

it's you who say the Father and the Son is two God's

Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord [size=14pt]our God[/size] is one Lord:

Deu 6:4 , hehehe Jesus said " OUR GOD" , lol he include himself . But you are too brain.washed to see that . Check the bold sized

Jesus has said that His Father is His God,
and we know from scriptures that the Word is God also.
when I say, "we know", I mean Christians know.

neither that verse, nor any verse, show that the Father and the Son are two god's
that's sectarian belief.

misreal:
I have been following this thread and believe me, you guys will never stop arguing.. only an experiential knowledge with the person of the holyghost can truly tell whether or not Jesus should be worshiped.. from the little experience I have with the holyghost, I can tell the world boldly that Jesus is lord, and should be worshiped. God the father should be worshiped and [size=14pt]even the holyghost[/size] should be worshiped. this is a mystery which you can never understand by studying the Greek and Hebrew rendering of the Bible....a word is enough for the wise.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, is God, and God should be worshipped.

Just pointing out one thing, @bold, above:

Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Saying "and even the Holy Ghost should be worshiped" is making Him less than the Father and the Son

You are generally right though, God is to be worshiped, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Jozzy4:



Lol

Rev 3:9 King James Bible
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, Which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


From the above , Even Jesus followers are worshipped !

And the blinded think that because, God will have those who were of the syanogue of satan, come and worship at the feet of believers, that Jesus Christ is not to be worshipped. --sectarian thinking.

Let them continue in delusion : John 4:23 said it all

The delusional think because John 4:23 shows that the Father is to be worshipped,
rules out the scriptures that show Jesus Christ should be worshipped.

it's confusion, and it's evil, jw and other unbeliever, are going to lenghts to try and show against the scriptures, that Jesus Christ should not be worshipped.

You should adhere to the following, if possible:

Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jas 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

It's talking about you.

johnw74:


The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, is God, and God should be worshipped.

Just pointing out one thing, @bold, above:

Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Saying "and even the Holy Ghost should be worshiped" is making Him less than the Father and the Son

You are generally right though, God is to be worshiped, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

hehehheeheh..abeg I didn't say the holyghost is lesser than the Father, Na you talk that one oh.. a wise man once said, when God gave us Jesus,he gave us everything but when he gave us the holyghost, he gave us himself.

misreal:
hehehheeheh..abeg I didn't say the holyghost is lesser than the Father, Na you talk that one oh.. a wise man once said, when God gave us Jesus,he gave us everything but when he gave us the holyghost, he gave us himself.

@red, You might not have meant that, but you did imply that:

misreal:

and even the holyghost should be worshiped

I like that saying @bold, that someone once said

johnw74:

@red, You might not have meant that, but you did imply that:


I like that saying @bold, that someone once said

hmmmm..thanks for the correction..

johnw74:


And the blinded think that because, God will have those who were of the syanogue of satan, come and worship at the feet of believers, that Jesus Christ is not to be worshipped. --sectarian thinking.



The delusional think because John 4:23 shows that the Father is to be worshipped,
rules out the scriptures that show Jesus Christ should be worshipped.

it's confusion, and it's evil, jw and other unbeliever, are going to lenghts to try and show against the scriptures, that Jesus Christ should not be worshipped.

You should adhere to the following, if possible:

Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jas 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

It's talking about you.

TRUE WORSHIPPERS, okay ( joh 4:23)

Emusan:
You got it this time but still learn how to make use of it fully because you're still giving me some tedious work of copy and paste.

Thanks for the encouragement

No there are yours! Like I pointed it out earlier you quite knew that it's just A VIEW NOT DIRECTLY quotation from the Bible but you still just want to attack strawman.

So I'm right to say those words where were never used in the scriptures.
When we use words that have different meaning to one used in the scriptures , it creates confusion. So please others should take note, words like "took on flesh" are not found in the scriptures.

I'm didn't tell you that my explanation is on that verse, did I? Continue to attack strawman again.

I did not see your explanation on that verse 'can you post it again and tell us how the word became flesh?

he took share in humanity

Can you please explain more on how jesus took a share in humanity? I need more explanation on how the word became flesh. Cus the scriptures did not say "the word took on flesh", neither did it say "the word entered flesh " . It said it "became flesh ".

His divine nature.

So jesus came to earth with his divine nature and no longer took the form of men
again?

Many proves are in the Bible for FLESHY resurrection of Jesus Christ
1. Jesus answered and said to
them, "Destroy this temple,
and in three days I will raise it
up." 20 Then the Jews said,
"It has taken forty-six years
to build this temple, and will
You raise it up in three
days?" 21 But He was
speaking of the temple of His
body. He didn't say "in three
days I will BUILD/FABRICATE/
GET another body but RAISE IT
UP.
2. He didn't fabricate another
BODIES (Plural-like your
organization teaches) but show
the same PRINTED NAILS and
side wounded body to the
doubting Thomas.
3. The tomb was empty which is
the evidence Jesus gave to the
eyes witness Disciples to
confirm His statement in John
2:19-21 that the TEMPLE will be
destroyed in three days and
raise it up. If Jesus' body
diffused into air as you believe
then Jesus is lying to have said
He will RAISE IT UP

Now to show you why jesus could not have been raised with a fleshly body .

Jesus said: “The bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world,”
During his last meal with his disciples, he also said that his body will be "given ".

Jesus giving his fleshly body goes along with the this statement :Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Just as the blood of animals where sacrificed , jesus flesh and blood had to be sacrificed so that the ransom can be payed . Adam lost a perfect body, another perfect body had to be presented.

This giving of the body by jesus is why 1 Tim 2:5,6 says these : 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ
Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a
ransom for all, to be testified in
due time.
So in jesus death, he had to give that perfect body as a sacrifice .

If jesus had been ressurected with that same body, then he would not have giving his body as a ransome sacrifice, a corresponding sacrifice .
Jesus did not take back his fleshly body and thereby cancel out the ransom for which it was given.

The apostle Peter testifies that Christ went into heaven, the realm of spirits, not flesh, “he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”. A translation say "ressurected in the spirit " and he became the first fruit of those ressurected in that manner .

Christians who have a heavenly hope, hope for these same kind of ressurection , for they died a physical body , but will be raised with a spiritual body . They will die as flesh, but will be raised and go to heaven as spirits . There are two kinds of bodies or nature, a spirit body or nature and a physical /fleshly body or nature.

After Jesus’ resurrection and Before his ascension to heaven, jesus, as a mighty,
immortal spirit person,
materialize various fleshly
bodies to suit the occasion, for
the purpose of giving to his
disciples visible, palpable
evidence of his resurrection

He appeared with different fleshly bodies .

Mary who knows who jesus is and how he looks like mistook him for the gardener.

"14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will takehim away. - ( Joh 20:14, 15)
He again appeared, entering a room with locked doors, having a body with wound marks. ( Joh 20:24-29)
Several times he
manifested himself and was
recognized, not by his
appearance, but by his words
and actions. ( Lu 24:15, 16, 30,
31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18)
Once a miracle performed at his direction opened his disciples’ eyes to his identity. ( Joh 21:4-7, 12)
Jesus, having been
resurrected as a spirit (1Pe
3:18), could materialize a body
for the occasion as the angels
did in past times, when they
appeared as messengers.

Many people are said to be "IN THE SPIRIT" in the Bible so using this as a support that
Jesus never resurrected with
His body contradicts His own
statement.

This is why I sometimes have issues with you . You deliberately cut statements and remove parts or us parts to explain ur views . The statement did not say " be in the spirit " it said he was "raised in the spirit". He could not have ascended into heaven with physical flesh cus flesh and blood cannot enter heaven.

Now can you show me where in the Bible that ANOINTED CHRISTIAN hope for this form of resurrection? Waiting for your Biblical support.

Immediately after you tell why jesus is the first fruit in relation to those ressurected

You deliberate did it, that'snonsense.
You believe Jesus is A GOD
then is Jesus a FALSE GOD
OR A TRUE GOD?

Well if you feel jesus calling the father "the only true God", as nonsense, that's between you and jesus, but as for me , I don't see any nonsense in calling the father what jesus called him , the only true God .
The question should also be directed to jesus, he was the one who said the father is the only true God. That question can only be asked by someone who feel jesus is wrong to say the father is the only true God .

Where in 1 Corin 8:5-6 that shows which God to be
worshiped?

I did not say "show " us , I said " helps us to know".

"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the
Father, of whom are all things,
and we in him; and one Lord
Jesus Christ, by whom are all
things, and we by him."

I worship one God, just as the prophets of old worship one God and the scriptures tell me that that one God is the father , who incidentally is the only true God .

Answered!!!

Answered that jesus is not the almighty God .

According to my Bible Jesus is the POWER of God and through God's Knowledge the depth were broken up which is the act of creation and
everything is done through The Word of God which will know on earth as Jesus.
Unless you will tell me that God created His own knowledge and power.

You did not answer my question : apart from authority , is there any other aspect in which the father is superior to the son, for example, knowledge and power? The answer to that question is important .

Jesus said there is only one father who is in heaven.
That means Isaiah was lying
when he said the Child will be
called EVERLASTING
FATHER

I think your question is based on a need to argue. Jesus said there is only one father, who is in heaven . Does this not show you that jesus being Called "evalasting father" does not mean he is our father in heaven ? Why do you think that those going to heaven are called "jesus brothers"?. We are discussing Bro , not trying to create a base for argument.

The point is not why the Son does what the Father does but THE SAME HONOUR THAT
GOES TO THE FATHER MUST
GO TO THE SON that's the
point here

And after it was granted unto
Him, He then says YOU
SHOULD HONOUR HIM EVEN
AS/JUST AS YOU WILL
HONOUR THE FATHER.

Then what is the essence of the
SEAL AND AUTHORITY placed
on the representative if not
because Jehovah wants you to
SEE and DO TO THE
REPRESENTATIVE just the
way you will see and do to
Him?
That's why, if a President sent a
representative to an occasion
to my own understanding and
how I see people doing it.
The representative will be
addressed with Your
Excellency Sir, Mr President
some can then attach in the
person of so so... to it or some
will just continue.

I've explained to you my own view of honor giving to the son just as its giving to the father. I worship the father cus he is the creator , the supreme being, I do not worship his representative

Now the AUTHORITY does not
limit to judge alone keep fooling
yourself.
I still see the @bold part as
attacking a strawman because
we're not talking of the How
honour you give determined
the value the person holds in
you but EQUIVALENT OF THE
HONOUR YOU GAVE TO ONE
MUST BE GIVEN TO THE
OTHER PERSON ...haba
enough of this your twisting
tongue.
Jesus said "EVEN AS/JUST
AS you honour the Father"
point is anyhow you HONOUR
THE FATHER HONOUR THE
SON IN THE SAME WAY.
If I tell someone:
-Respect me the way/even/just
as you respect your parent
-Honour me the way/even/just
as you honour your mother
-Fear me the way/even/just as
you fear you Father
This doesn't mean that the
person must valued his/her
parent more than me BUT it's
crystal cleared to everyone
hearing my voice at that time
that [B]I'M DEMANDING FOR
EQUAL RESPECT, HONOUR
AND FEAR from such fellow.[/b]
So forget about this your jumbo
jumbo twisting, IN ANYWAY
YOU HONOUR JEHOVAH
(which you know within
yourself) Jesus DEMANDS
FOR SUCH HONOUR ALSO!
Very Simple.

In that verse, it say jesus was giving the authority to judge, I did not limit jesus authority, I'm only following what that verse says
Again, as long as you use words that the verses in the scripture did not use, and cut sentences to suit ur view, we will always be having issues . The word "same" or "way" or "same way" are not found in the scriptures. Quote the scripture sentences completely and then explain from there.

Answered!!!

Answered that as jesus is in heaven now, The father is still superior to him .

Emusan:


So you have to quote TRANSLATION YOU'RE NOT USED TO and you couldn't check the wording very well. That's how your organization behave I'm sorry to say it again.

@bold- Only God has ALL or ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY, TRUE or FALSE?



Now the AUTHORITY HAS BEEN LIMITED only TO JUDGE... SMH



Apology accepted, but you haven't apologize for wrongly accuse me.



This is ABO WA BA in Yoruba means we'll trash this later.



I don't have issue with your organization but putting the light of the scripture in the eyes of the people whom those who opposes the truth or perverted the Word of God have covered.



Maybe because they fall in the category of those people I mentioned above.
Beside, Devil is a liar and the father of it. Your organization lies a lot maybe you know it but the fear of dis-fellowship still holding you back or you don't know which you can challenge me to provide the evidence. Can God lie?



Every human being are not perfect but when God USED anybody the outcome is perfect, your organization claimed to be used by God but still lying and changing previous message, is that how God works?

My first post on this thread about the OP was "New generation of JWs don't worship Jesus but their founder Russell and his successors do so for over good 50years.

I wonder who is right between the founder and the followers or should I call it confusion, and the fate of those JWs who have been taught that worshiping Jesus is scriptural.

If it is Jehovah that truly called Russell, why Jehovah couldn't tell him that worshiping Jesus is idolatry but allowed Russell to die as an idolater?

NOTE: Am I lying about this? Is this how God works in the history of man?




You have your life you can do anything you like with it.

Will wait for the abo wa ba

johnw74:


And the blinded think that because, God will have those who were of the syanogue of satan, come and worship at the feet of believers, that Jesus Christ is not to be worshipped. --sectarian thinking.

I Thought the Bible says "Only God is to be Worshipped" Why is God (either Jesus, Holy Spirit or The Father) now making some persons worship some other persons in that scripture?

johnw74:
^^^

worship
G4352

προσκυνέω
proskuneō
pros-koo-neh'-o
From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship.
Total KJV occurrences: 60

kiss, crouch (bow to), prostate oneself in homage, do reverence to, adore, - that's worship

Is there any part of the above rendering of the word "worship" that is strange to persons who practise Yoruba culture in Nigeria? Are they worshipping their elders by their act of greeting/courtesy?

Also read verse 26. That was an act Peter objected to without hesitation. Perharps Cornelius was overwhelmed.

Acts 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

dolphinheart:
New Living Translation
As Peter entered his home,
Cornelius fell at his feet and
worshiped him.
- acts 10:25.

Is peter God? If no , why is he worshiped?.

Jozzy4:


TRUE WORSHIPPERS, okay ( joh 4:23)

TRUE WORSHIPPERS worship the Son along with the Father,

Mat_2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Rev_14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Heb_1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

jw chooses what verses to believe and which ones to reject, that leaves jw not among the true worshippers.

RikoduoSennin:


I Thought the Bible says "Only God is to be Worshipped" Why is God (either Jesus, Holy Spirit or The Father) now making some persons worship some other persons in that scripture?

I already know that you don't believe the scriptures.

Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

RikoduoSennin:


Is there any part of the above rendering of the word "worship" that is strange to persons who practise Yoruba culture in Nigeria? Are they worshipping their elders by their act of greeting/courtesy?

Bible verses show Jesus Christ is to be worshipped,
I know you don't believe the Bible

Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world,
Christians have no trouble at all worshipping Jesus Christ.

Of course satan and those who are his, oppose it at lengths.