HUMAN DEVELOPEMENT: (Allah knows best)

Allah creates HOW EVER and WHAT EVER He wills.

Science has found out with global DNA-tests (going with those "back in time" that all humans (from all over the world) have same mother and father they all originate from (in fact in tests only mother can be seen, but there had to be male too), "Adam and Eve", in Islam "Eve" is "Hawwa" that means "original/first mother". Human-like that preceded modern human are hinted in Koran (if in the future, why not before?), in fact it is said that we have been raised from "posterity of other people" (were they related to us or not, were there leap of evolution or not, humans were created from "earth ground/clay" meaning cycle of nature that from all our cells have grown, previous species are also part of that, in fact it can not mean anything else, as 37:11 is speaking about all humans created from clay in general level, not just about Adam, and neither in some parts said creation of mankind from semen does not exclude Adam out, in fact it could be only about Adam/Eve, beginning of humans, if there will be human clones that are not from sperm, even though “semen” could be cell also. Allah say He CREATED man from semen, in past form. And semen requires womb, by human or non-human, and so that single “soul”/”person” from who we all come from, could have been non-human, invidual, not Adam/Hawwa):

6:133 "Thy Lord is self-sufficient, full of Mercy: if it were His will, He could destroy you, and in your place appoint whom He will as your successors, even as He raised you up from the posterity of other people."
17:99 "See they not that Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth, is able to create the like of them. And He has decreed for them an appointed term, whereof there is no doubt. But the unjust refuse but disbelief."
14:19 "..If He so will, He can remove you and put (in your place) a new creation!



Really, those human-like had time appointed at them, none of them survived to this day (although apes did). Allah say in Koran (5:60) that He can create man to apes, so why not other way round according to evolution theory? Still after that man would have been created from soil (and from water in beginning of evolution), as were apes before us and those before them, eating and growing with what comes from soil of the earth (and material for soil came from water by another dead plants and animals, as evolution came from there), and by semen, “nutfah”, that came from food (86:6-7, between ribs and backbone is stomach) and grow in womb. In fact this is only way how Adam came from all these three. Allah said that mankind has been created from single “soul”/”person” (4:1/39:6), but that person could be not only Adam (Adam is not mentioned there), but earlier human-like relative from who’s sperm sperm Adam and/or Hawwa were created (“Eve” WAS NOT according to Quran created from ribs of Adam). There actually is femine-form in arabics, so who was first? Are we offspring of Adam/Hawwa or their “father/mother”?

As you already know, Koran says that Allah created both all animals and mankind (/man) from water (24:45/25:54), and that is where evolution started according to theory. In other places is said that man is created from ground of the earth (23:12, and earth is where all we eat is coming from, that way also producing sperm for us and animals, and everything else in growth and what we are, in fact it can not mean anything else, as 37:11 is speaking about all humans created from clay in general level, not just about Adam, and Adam is not neither excluded from creation according to Koran by “nutfah”, semen, too), so either there is contradiction or man was created from all (water, clay, semen). Well, many say that Allah "shaped" man from both water and clay with His "hands", but can we take it so literally (as many descriptions in Koran and hadiths we can not)? Would that not happen even if Allah started our evolution "shaping" from water through other animals to two-legged animals, then to earlier human beings, then to modern human through (genetically engineered and changed, leap of evolution) sperm of this earlier human species (Neanderthals?)?

3:59 "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

If Jesus (and his seed/embryo) was created into womb of a woman by saying "Be", so in what womb of what human species was Adam created? It could be that this "from ground of the earth" meant that semen drop that grow from what someone got from food (Allah made him to eat by "Be", and so created, 86:6-7 said that semen is developed between backbone and ribs, from food in stomach), then grow as Adam (in fact it might be only Adam and beginning of humans, as clones would not be from sperm). “Similitude” can only mean that, as Allah has created everything else also by word “Be”, so only reason for mentioning it can only be evolution really, in fact 38:72 says that when Allah created Adam He “breathed” His spirit into him (notice that according to 2:34 immediate command to bow down after that “breathing” in 38:72 happened only after Adam was told name of things, so maybe his spirit was created before he came to earth in human body, explaining how according to Bible Jesus said he was before Abraham was on Earth) , which can be seen as one thing making difference between modern humans and earlier humans/animals, maybe it is mostly capability to believe in Allah that was given to first modern human coming from womb of earlier human (leap of evolution) 7:24 told that Allah said to Adam and Hawwa "go ye down!", that can be understood as expulsion from paradise to be born in human body from womb, or then unliteral description about state of expulsion from paradise-like place or state (after he was created to paradise on Earth from womb), but it can also have meant that Adam came from different planet, as a seed/embryo to womb (experiencing expulsion trough new birth in earth) or then as grown man.

I think this all fine but complete description about evolution is more easier to understand through description about "jinns" (aliens), who were created from FIRE FREE OF SMOKE, and what that might have meant (that their material came from stars that died), and how more general description it needed as scale for (amount of) them is larger, as even animals in Koran is only said to be created from water (not from ground or by semen from it as humans, as some animals are not).

35:1 "Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs): He adds to Creation as He pleases: for Allah has power over all things."

Evolution is said to be continued, Allah can add into it what He wills.

37:11 "Just ask their opinion: are they the more difficult to create, or the (other) beings We have created? Them have We created out of a sticky clay!"

This ayat shows that we really are basically normal animals, we even share 98% of our genes with chimpanzees. So if simps were easy to create, so are we.



THIS WAS FROM MY WRITING IN:

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/

sounds very interesting and easy to understand, but have tought about possibility that evolution is not way how creation happened?

would then we only have old interpretations?

Quite a nice write up. But two things are not clear to me. Are you saying that the word "dust" as stated in the bible is not to be taken figuratively? If you do, on what basis are you founding this assumption. What scientific or cultural evidence exists to support this claim? Again, if you meant that the word "dust" or to use your own word "earth ground/ clay" is not to be taken figuratively and is to be construed to mean sperm, would this not be a little contradictory? You stated yourself, in your closing remarks and i quote "35:1 "Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs): He adds to Creation as He pleases: for Allah has power over all things." If you agree that God created us "out of nothing" where did the semen come from?

My understanding of basic biology is that the male semen fertilizes the male egg. Where did God get the semen from and who did he copulate with to fertilize her eggs? Do you begin to understand? According to you, even the Koran says that God created out of nothing. If God created out of nothing where, then, did you get the semen insight from?

You stated that God created Jesus from the dust. Let me quote your text "3:59 "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." Where did this come from? At what point did God create Jesus and from which dust? Did you not read in John 1:1 that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God? At which point in this your exposition of evolution did God create Jesus? Are you asserting that Jesus was created in the same mode as Adam? If so, did you ever read that "the spirit of God visit Mary and she conceived of a child". Are you suggesting that this biblical testimony is faulty or inaccurate? If it is, I would surely want to hear about it.

Your theory is asserting that Adam's "spirit was created before he came to earth". From my understanding of simple English, coming to a place means that the person who is coming must be moving from one point in other to arrive at another. Where was Adam coming from? Adam, according to my bible was greater in the image and likeness of God, molded out of dust in exactitude to God's image. My bible further tells me that God breathed in him the breath of life. My interpretation of this, is that God shared a part of his own soul with Adam. Which is in contra-distinction to your "his spirit was created before he came to earth in human body".

I would suggest that you research further on this topic. Thanks, though, for taking the time to express your views. And may God guide you in all that you do. My sincere regards.

You stated that God created Jesus from the dust. Let me quote your text "3:59 "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." Where did this come from? At what point did God create Jesus and from which dust?

@ elbaron, what the above Qur'anic ayat is telling us is that Jesus and Adam are kind of similar in the way Allah created them. The only reason why you people are confusing yourselves and saying that Jesus was "god" and "son of God" was the mere fact that he was conceived of no father. That's all. So Allah is telling us in that Qur'anic passage that Adam also was created of no parental coitus -- in fact, in Adam's case there was neither a father nor a mother. Allah only breathed life into him by commanding the moulded clay, "Be!" and "He was!" KUN! FAYA KUN! Please, get that right, sir.

Adam, according to my bible was greater in the image and likeness of God, molded out of dust in exactitude to God's image.

Another Confusion! Can you tell me, sir, in what image? Was it in the Negroid or Mongoloid or Caucasoid (that you and others want us to believe by having that European man's picture on every church's wall) image? Please, tell us since you all love to claim that God created man in His own image. How confused is the man for spreading confusion and obfuscation all over the land! In Islam, Allah has warned us strictly against forming any image about him. Even to have a thought of how Allah might look is sacrilegious! Allah knows best.

Quite a nice write up. But two things are not clear to me. Are you saying that the word "dust" as stated in the bible is not to be taken figuratively? If you do, on what basis are you founding this assumption. What scientific or cultural evidence exists to support this claim? Again, if you meant that the word "dust" or to use your own word "earth ground/ clay" is not to be taken figuratively and is to be construed to mean sperm, would this not be a little contradictory? You stated yourself, in your closing remarks and i quote "35:1 "Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs): He adds to Creation as He pleases: for Allah has power over all things." If you agree that God created us "out of nothing" where did the semen come from?

this was what abdurahmeen wrote in introduction of his book on web (concerning creation from ground):

"So we can connect this development also to other species living before, turning to "ashes" even then, coming building blocks for us too,"

So this "dust", ground, is just recycled. when earth was created, so was that ground, and basics for that ground were created even earlier from stars that died. those stars were created from (earlier stars and) beginning of universe after big bang, when atoms were created.

Qur´an states:

21:30 "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece (/as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder (/then We parted them)? We made from water every living thing, Will they not then believe?"

heavens (with heavens) and earth were together before big bang. "everything living from water" described how on earth evolution (and so animals and plants, and so eventually dead material on top of rocky ground producing furtile soil, producing later also food and so food eating animals, sperm and eventually humans)  had its BEGINNING in water. and so water had its beginning in "nothing" before.

same pattern is also in description of creation of jinns before creation of humans (abdurahmeen explains this too on his site), they are told to be created from "fire without smoke", and from (earlier) stars (that died) atoms were born, but that does not mean that (at least some) jinns could not be created from water or later than humans, it is just telling about larger SCALE of possibilities in creation, and common "start point" for all those different creations is this "fire without smoke" (and so as it is mentioned, and as humans were mentioned to be created from something that came after stars, from view of Allah creation of jinns happened before humans eventhough there would be earlier species in space), for all animals most latest common "starting point" for creation is from water, as all animals do not eat food from ground or reproduce by sperm. common for all humans is at least creation of Adam/Hawwa from sperm.

My understanding of basic biology is that the male semen fertilizes the male egg. Where did God get the semen from and who did he copulate with to fertilize her eggs? Do you begin to understand? According to you, even the Koran says that God created out of nothing. If God created out of nothing where, then, did you get the semen insight from?

abdurahmeen explained that sperm (for body of Adam) came from earlier human-like species, and according to evolution-theory there happened leap of evolution, mutation.

and you were explained this "from nothing" earlier, it is from (before) beginning of universe even before atoms (and even universe) were formed. 

You stated that God created Jesus from the dust. Let me quote your text "3:59 "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." Where did this come from? At what point did God create Jesus and from which dust?

no matter how you think Jesus was given birth, when Jesus were created into womb, he were definitely created in some mechanical stage of human developement, nobody comes from nothing, Jesus was not spirit but man in flesh. so if it were virgin-birth, either God created that sperm into womb directly (from something that Mary ate?), or then Jesus was created already as an embryo/child into a womb, using same materials that excist in our food, and so in ground too.

anyway Jesus or Adam did not have (modern) human father (or at least nobody but Allah knows about it).

Did you not read in John 1:1 that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God? At which point in this your exposition of evolution did God create Jesus? Are you asserting that Jesus was created in the same mode as Adam? If so, did you ever read that "the spirit of God visit Mary and she conceived of a child". Are you suggesting that this biblical testimony is faulty or inaccurate? If it is, I would surely want to hear about it.[/[/b]color]

beginning of gospel of John is actually direct replicate from writings of Pthylo of Alexandria (15 BC - 30 AC), greek philosopher, only words "word was god´s" (in original text) were transformed into "word was God" (in bible), it is only small error between two very similar letters in greeks.

[color=Black]Your theory is asserting that Adam's "spirit was created before he came to earth". From my understanding of simple English, coming to a place means that the person who is coming must be moving from one point in other to arrive at another. Where was Adam coming from?

according to Islam his spirit was created first into paradise. it could also explain why Jesus said that he "was before Abraham", at least spirits of Adam and Jesus were created (MUCH) earlier than their bodies (again new "similitude" Qur´an mentioned). in old jewish faiths there even is concept about "waiting room" from where spirit is taken into a body.

Adam, according to my bible was greater in the image and likeness of God, molded out of dust in exactitude to God's image. My bible further tells me that God breathed in him the breath of life. My interpretation of this, is that God shared a part of his own soul with Adam. Which is in contra-distinction to your "his spirit was created before he came to earth in human body".

so you trust into bible. but what if humans have genes of apes, and those are "image of God", is god ape? and why is not adam god, if he had part of God´s spirit, and did not have even father?

I would suggest that you research further on this topic. Thanks, though, for taking the time to express your views. And may God guide you in all that you do. My sincere regards.

I would suggest you should think more, also outside of your bible. blessings for you too.

I couldn't have said it better. Salaam.

Thank you brethren for your various posts. Are we then, to assume that the Koran should be taken as the only point of reference as refers to authenticity in exclusion to the bible? Please let me know. It sure a very interesting topic. With all my regards

You're welcome, sir.

Thanks udaiyah, excactly those same things I would have answered.

----Are we then, to assume that the Koran should be taken as the only point of reference as refers to authenticity in exclusion to the bible? Please let me know.----

It do not have to be only one, there is much other evidence proving about process of forming Bible and also about changes of it. Here in Finland it is called "church history" (direct translation), and it is taught in schools for EVERYBODY.

As you see, those phrases in beginning of Gospel of John, that are borrowed from Pthylo of Alexandria (Greek philosopher 15 BC - 30 AC) are now in Bible. Only difference to original text is part "Word was God", in original text it is "Word was God´s", both have equal amount of letters in Greeks and there is only one small error of one letter, these letters look very similiar and make difference between "God" and "God´d"

[b]KORAN ON JEWS AND CHRISTIANS
(Surah 5:51) do not take the Jews and Christians as friends.

Bukhari (52:177) - "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew is hiding say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

TERRORISM
Surah (8:12) - "Allah will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Sura (9:14) - "Fight the disbelievers, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, "
Sura (9:5) - kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, leave them only if they repent and pray and give alms

Abuse a muslim, pay with your life
Surah (2:191-193) - kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, and drive them out of the places where they drove you out, for persecution of Muslims is worse than slaughter of disbelievers, so fight them until persecution is no more, and religion of Allah reigns supreme.

All Muslims urged to fight the Unbelievers
Surah (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward[/b]

So Rahman what do think about this ? Is Islamic religion not a satanic religion ? God have mercy

Quoting focussed:

So Rahman what do think about this ? Is Islamic religion not a satanic religion ? God have mercy

My guy, many of them already know that it is a satanic religion that bathes and berths in hatred and blood. That is no gainsaying. But it takes the love of christ to have their eyes opened.