ISAIAH PROPHESIES CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM in Isa.7:5-6,13-17 earthquake killing 250 000 people in Christian Syria 526 AD+Islam Isa.9:1-6


FIRST SEE HOW JESUS PROPHESIED "KINGDOM OF GOD", ISLAM:

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/islam/

These two prophesies describe both, Christianity and Islam, more religions themselves than prophets, and describe conditions when they appeared, and it is connected to Islam by earthquake in Syria 526 AC, that killed over 250 000 Christian Syrian’s, and by warm climate of time. Time of earthquake in prophecy is connected to time when Christianity was (most near to be) right religion before Islam came to direct into "choosing good and abandoning evil", as (most) Christians in Syria and elsewhere in Middle-East and north-Africa did, accepted Islam (in long period of time).

Then was over time when Immanuel (=Christianity, Immanuel="Lord with us", describing Christians who believe that God was with them on earth), so Christians, got to eat "curds and honey" (describing especially warm centuries before coming of Islam and easy faith without much expectations like regular praying) and came time when Christians had to choose between "choosing good and refusing evil" as Islam came. That is when easy salvation , for some without knowledge, even by worshipping Jesus as a god were to end, and more demanding times came.

10. Then the LORD spoke again to Ahaz, saying,
11. "Ask a sign for yourself from the LORD your God; make it deep as Sheol or high as heaven."

12. But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, nor will I test the LORD!"

13. Then he said, "Listen now, O house of David! Is it too slight a thing for you to try the patience of men, that you will try the patience of my God as well?

14. "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Immanuel is Christianity/Christians, "Lord with us" describes how Christians will believe, that God came to Earth among them. Nowadays Christians can not change this belief into any other form, as if they would deny that Jesus was not god, they should become Muslims. This is how Allah made sure that Christians believe like Quran describes and how prophesied even in Bible.

15. "He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good.

Warm and agriculturally plenty centuries were just before Islam, wine was grown even in Britain that time (besides description of few nuclear-winter’s in 6th century, when sun shined only couple of hours in a day, perhaps because of big meteor that hit Earth, it could be from words of Jesus how before end of times there will be "signs in the sky", just before coming of Mohammed who began "end of times", countdown for Judgment Day). Then when Islam came, about one third from Christians in world learned how to chose good and abandon evil, in Middle-East and in North-Africa.

16. "For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken.

So before Islam came and Christians learned to choose good, Syria (mentioned "land whose two kings you dread" in 7:5-6) and its lands were forsaken (in some translations "will come empty" when earthquake hit 526 AC and killed 250 000 Christian Syrians (almost total population of Syria that time).

17."The LORD will bring on you, on your people, and on your father's house such days as have never come since the day that Ephraim separated from Judah, the king of Assyria."

This could be again coming back in time to time just after Jesus, and this could describe for example destruction of Jerusalem by Romans (but also other same kind of events).











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HERE IS PROPHESIED MOHAMMED AND ISLAM: (Isa.9:1-6)

Birth and Reign of the Prince of Peace
1. But there shall be no gloom to her that was in anguish. In the former time he brought into contempt the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali; but in the latter time hath he made it glorious, by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations.

"Zebulun and Naphtali" who were treated with contempt earlier is Arabia, these border areas of Israel describe areas beyond borders ("on the other side of Jordan". Arabs were so despised that Byzantium or Persia did not even want to conquer it, or to convert them to their religion. "Way of the sea" is Red Sea and Persian Gulf surrounding holy places of Muslims, (temple of even Abraham in) Mecca and Medina, and also offering connecting short sea route between Mediterranean and Indian Ocean. "Other side of Jordan" is deserts of Arabs behind Jordan (Arabs have lived there centuries before Islam), confirming that Arabs are mentioned here.

2. The people who walk in darkness
Will see a great light;
Those who live in a dark land,
The light will shine on them.

"People who walk in darkness" is Arabic pagans, without monotheistic religion. "Light" is Islam and Word of Allah, "dark land" is waste lands in deserts.

3. You shall multiply the nation,
You shall increase their gladness;
They will be glad in Your presence
As with the gladness of harvest,
As men rejoice when they divide the spoil.

Nation of Arabs and lot of spoil to divide multiplied when Arabs conquered Middle-East and North-Africa. "Increase their gladness" is about Mohammed, as Jesus himself said that he has not come to brought peace bur sword.

4. For You shall break the yoke of their burden and the staff on their shoulders,
The rod of their oppressor, as at the battle of Midian.

"Break yoke of their burden" is sin that is abolished, Quran and Mohammed gave numerous complete instructions in hadiths what is wrong, and how to avoid it. Breaking "staff on their shoulders" is slavery, that was reduced dramatically because of Islam, as it encouraged Muslims to let slaves free (reward is better benefits in paradise). Breaking "rod of their oppressor" is destroying power of satan.

5. For every boot of the booted warrior in the battle tumult,
And cloak rolled in blood, will be for burning, fuel for the fire.

Islam brought centuries of peace into Middle-East (except crusades started by Christians) and to North-Africa, and peace is also what Islam means as a word. Overall Muslims have had (against each others especially) much less wars than Christians, and those few wars have been much less bloody than in Christian countries. Also Islam gave liberty and peace for many persecuted minority Christians in Byzantium, who were not accepted by official state church (as they refused to believe into trinity or into Jesus as god for example). Of course this can also describe how sins are wiped out from those who accepts Islam (bloody clothes are burned).


6. For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

As Jesus, also Mohammed (puh) were given to us, although in case of Jesus focus is much more in his birth. Government will rest on shoulders of Mohammed, and on Him who send Mohammed and ordered him to act and to do as he did, in founding of government. This is not about Jesus, he did not found government. "Wonderful Counsellor" describes amazing Quran and numerous hadiths, over two million of them, and amount of information on those for nearly all aspects of life. "Mighty God" and "Eternal Father" describes God of Islam, Allah (not Jesus-loves-you-all-god), from Whom Mohammed (and also Jesus) preached about, and how Allah will be eternity and will not change a bit . Prince of Peace is about Allah, Islam and Mohammed together, their common affect on world and about peace they brought.


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7.Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.

"Kingdom that have no end in government and peace" and "reigned from David’s throne" (throne of religions of Abraham) is Islam that spread through THREE continents from Spain to China and India in under 100 years (compare to Matt.13:33 where Jesus told that "kingdom of heaven is like leaven, that woman took and hid in THREE pecks of flour, until it was all leavened". "Justice and righteousness" is describing what Islam emphasizes very much in its doctrine. "That time and forever" is about Islam that will never change. Zeal (from Jews and Christians going astray) of Allah will accomplish this.

From this following passage in New Testament (Matt.4:13-17), that many will try to use to deny my interpretations, can be clearly seen that writer has interpretated himself that Jesus so fulfilled another prophecy, and twisted prophecy by fitting it into frames of this:

13. and leaving Nazareth, He came and settled in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the region of Zebulun and Naphtali.

14. This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet:
15. "THE LAND OF ZEBULUN AND THE LAND OF NAPHTALI,
BY THE WAY OF THE SEA, BEYOND THE JORDAN, GALILEE OF THE GENTILES--
16. "THE PEOPLE WHO WERE SITTING IN DARKNESS SAW A GREAT LIGHT,
AND THOSE WHO WERE SITTING IN THE LAND AND SHADOW OF DEATH,
UPON THEM A LIGHT DAWNED."

17. From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

First of all, these are not words of Jesus but later added prophecy by Isaiah fitted into visit of Jesus on area fitting into prophecy (in prophecy this border area of Israel is just describing areas beyond borders, lands of Arabs, not just lands of Zebulun/Naphtali exclusively, in fact Jesus were only near these areas for a LITTLE TIME).

In Isaiah prophecy were in future-form, here in past-form. According to Isaiah lands of Zebulun/Naphtali were "treated with contempt", and only LATER they will be given PERMANENT light (Jesus spend there only little time, Christianity little longer, but Islam is still there), so that whole land will come from dark into shining (describing deserts, which it came permanently only by Islam).

So would it not have to mean that these people on these lands did not accept Jesus and his message and so were kept in darkness, or that they started worshipping prophet as a god when they at least lost rest from their glory and were in contempt. In this case Islam was one to come to clean and purify that all.


Jesus himself did not require faith for “salvation through death on cross” even in Bible, it is invention of others (mainly Paul’s), although he recognized that those events have to come pass (even as fake crucifixion) because of its importance for world and in foreshadowing Islam to bring salvation closer to (otherwise) pagans who were not mentioned to receive Islam (until some time limit on some amount, which is going on now). Jesus even stated that he will be those three days like Jonah on stomach of whale, and Jonah was ALIVE inside whale.


THIS WAS FROM MY WRITING IN:

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/

what are you trying to say...

I know the Bible to be very specific, without fear or favour, on issues.

You have just quoted lot of things out of context.... Can you come out clear?
90% of the prophesies that you quoted had been fulfilled about two thousand years ago.

He's just trying to introduce an Islamic point of view to the forum and I support this effort 100%. Welcome, Abdurahman!

What the point of all his research? what is he trying to point out?

Still wondering too....
I guess there are a thousand and one ways of introducing a point of view...
This certainly does not seem like it...
I'm open to learning though and will be watching out...

I like about this sincerely fresh approach of abdurahmeen, he is pointing out maby good things that has not been noticed and discussed about.

bible is free for all to read and debate, and i have not seen any christians challenging or correcting abdurahmeen in any way, in time of over half a month!

and i think he has had fan out of me with his way to see things...

@udaiyah, I feel the same way. Ride on, AbduRahman. Some of us care to hear you more!

udaiyah:


bible is free for all to read and debate, and i have not seen any christians challenging or correcting abdurahmeen in any way, in time of over half a month!

if christians reply diz post dats just gon lead to arguements. I'm christian and i'm not gon challenge wateva he's writtin or correct it cuz to me he's very deep in wat he believes in. this is a free world everybody is entitled to there own ideas believe and religion!!!!!

this is a free world everybody is entitled to there own ideas believe and religion!!!!!

Well, you got that right, sister.

---90% of the prophesies that you quoted had been fulfilled about two thousand years ago.---

For claims like this I explained how and why because of gospels Christians misinterprate this to have already happened before coming of Islam.

----if christians reply diz post dats just gon lead to arguements. I'm christian and i'm not gon challenge whatever he's writtin or correct it because to me he's very deep in what he believes in. this is a free world everybody is entitled to there own ideas believe and religion!!!!!-----

Of course anyone is entitled to believe as they wish, in Islam there is also orders about total freedom of religion for Christians for example, they are part of "People of the Book".

But there HAVE TO BE discussions and debates! How otherwise you would come to know the Truth? Do you think that God has made this world so easy that you will manage it totally on your own? Think again....

In the name of Most Merciful:

Here Jesus announced that He has been send to direct those few chosen Christians by Bible to Islam and to Muslim-countries (like for me it did):

John.10:16 ”I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen (offspring of Ishmael, not Isaac-Jewish). I must bring them also (Jesus in Quran and monotheism/prophesies in Bible). They too will listen to my voice (same message), and there shall be one flock and one shepherd (monotheistic believers and prophets teaching about one God, now only Islam).”

Matt.18:12-14 “What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the MOUNTAINS and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. In the same way, my Father in heaven does not want one of these little children to be lost.”

Luke.15:4-7 “What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the DESERT (open pasture) and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbours, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost! I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. “

Here words (leaving other sheep’s at SAFELY HOME in) “MOUNTAINS” and “DESERT” describe general nature in Muslim-countries near Christian countries.

Matt.9:12-13 “But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” Luke.9:56 “for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.”

So Jesus WAS (prophesied) king, Messiah, he divided Rome to east and west by religious differences (about power), Muslims got East Rome because of that, Byzantium. And he “sacrificed”, for sake of both Muslims and Christians, but he did not need to make it to forgive all sins of mankind, but perhaps only in describing way (for that all who will find Islam get to start with no sins again). If Europe, America and Africa had remind in paganism and with ruler-gods, persecution for Muslims would have been much worse than it was for Christians, who did not have such strict demand for total monotheism. With saints for example Christianity could easily to be one to replace pagan-god´s in Europe (god was replaced by saint, holidays with Christian holidays), America and Africa, and so bring them again closer to Islam.

Luke.12:51-52 “Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.”

So house of Abraham is divided because of different beliefs on Jesus, mainly to 3 Christian religions (Orthodox, Catholics, Protestants) and to two Islamic religions (Sunni and Shiite). And it has NOT been denyed that these could battle even with other sects among themself, but most commonly conflicts have happened between Islam and Christianity.

Matt.12:26-27 Jesus told us that Islam can not be from satan, as it directs worshipping and bowing to God of Abraham, reason why satan fall from heaven, and so would never tell to do so. Even Jesus spoke about God of Abraham, “Father”, not about Jehovah for example. And “I am truth, way, and life” does not mean Jesus was god, but a prophet who taught TRUTH in monotheistic teaching about one God, who gave us WAY and example in worshipping on knees face to ground and being totally submitting to God, and all this will give LIFE. All Muslims have to believe in Jesus TOO to be Muslim.

Matt.21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

As Jesus told (to ALL people who were there, so “Christians”, his followers, also, not just to priests who even might not be there then anymore, but left him after he answered theirs question much earlier), Jews (and its sect Christianity as it is based only to Jewish nation) lost kingdom of God when it was given to Arabs, ONE nation (Christianity is not based on other single nation but Jews).

Matt.22:45 “If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he (Jesus) be his son?"

Here only possibility could be that spirit of Jesus were born before David, and so Jesus was in “high rank” compared to David (Jesus is most mentioned prophet in Qur´an). Idea about Jesus being son of David, from descent of David, refutes idea about actual “son of God”, as if Jesus had no human father, then he did not have genetically background in David who was relative of Joseph. So why would God be his genetic father then, if even David was not? So Jesus confirmed evolution (see my writing in link "Human development / Evolution", and there about Jesus saying he was before Abraham), and that he is “son of God”, prophet, as Jews understood it (look at link "Jesus warned about Paul", but not son of Allah...



More about Islam prophesied by Jesus in Bible, for example how Jesus prophesied Islam and schedule of it, and how he did describe "People of the Book" (and schedule of those), mentioned only in Qur´an 600 years later:

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/koran/

About Scientific Miracles in Qur´an (and also about Paul and rest of Bible) :

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/

JESUS PROPHESIED "KINGDOM OF GOD" (click to make picture larger):

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/islam/

In the Name of Most Merciful:

( These two prophecy are connected to Luke.5:36-39, why new religion is necessary instead of change of old religions)

Matt.20:1. "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner (God) who went (send prophets) out early in the morning (first hour in Jewish calendar was 5 o´clock, so Abraham/Jews in 1800-1700 BC) to hire men (believers) to work (for His glory) in his vineyard (Earth). 2. He agreed to pay them a denarius (paradise) for the day (world history) and sent them into his vineyard.

3. "About the third hour (1200-1100 BC Sabians/Zarathustrians, in Bible there is another Sabian-tribe in South-Iraq) he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing (Judaism had not spread). 4.He told them, 'You also (besides Judaism) go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5. So they went.

"He went out again about the sixth hour (600 BC beginning of prophesies about Messiah) and the ninth hour (around 1 AC Jesus were born) and did the same thing (created Christians and Christianity).

6. About the eleventh hour (500-700 AC) he went out (send prophet) and found still others (Arabs) standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing (Arabs had not had religions through prophets, only polytheism-paganism)?'

7. " 'Because no one has hired us (Arabs were so despised that even Byzantium or Persia did not want to conquer and convert them),' they answered."He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'

8. "When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages (what they deserve), beginning with the last ones hired (Muslims) and going on to the first (Jews).'

9. "The workers (Muslims) who were hired about the eleventh hour (500-700 AC) came and each received a denarius. 10. So when those came who were hired first (Jews), they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner (God). 12. 'These men who were hired last (Muslims) worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day (persecutions, slavery, occupations).'

13. "But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14. Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous (you want to keep God for your nation only)?'

16. "So the last (Muslims) will be first, and the first (Jews) will be last (Prophet Mohammed, pbuh, said that even though he was last prophet and Muslims were last believers, they will enter paradise first, f.ex. before Jews and Christians, so explaining importance of accepting ALL prophets)."

-----------------------------------------


1 "year" = approx. 600 years, from Abraham / Jacob and so Jews 1800 BC to Islam 632 AC = 2400 years / 4 "year" = 600 years


Luke.13:6. Then he told this parable: "A master (God) had a fig tree (symbol of Israel in Bible), planted in his vineyard (Earth), and he went to look for fruit (results) on it, but did not find any. 7. So he said to the man (Jesus) who took care of the vineyard (Judaism only true religion in the world then), 'For three (1800) years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil (why not to do better religion)?'

8. " 'Sir,' the man replied, 'leave it alone for one (600) more year(s), and I'll dig around it (around Israel) and fertilize it (make world ready for Islam in Middle-East). 9. If it bears fruit next year (in 600 years), fine! If not, then cut it down (Judaism and its sect/branch Christianity from way of Islam).' "
-----------------------------------------


Please Christians, give me answer to this:

If Mohammed (pbuh) "took" term "People of the Book" from these parallels, was he not way too intelligent not to tell about it (explain/interpretate these parallels) and so use it (to justify him and Qur´an)


More about Islam prophesied by Jesus in Bible, for example description of natural conditions in Muslim-countries near christian countries ("desert"/"mountains" as "home":

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/koran/

About Scientific Miracles in Qur´an (and also about Paul and rest of Bible) :

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/

JESUS PROPHESIED "KINGDOM OF GOD" (click to make picture larger):

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/islam/

If you can make prophecies (f.ex. hidden in parallels from church to be less corrupted) to fit in history and into Bible, Christians have no other change but to accept them, if they want to be honest for themselves

As you see, connections in history are too much even for Christians to deny these prophecies, and Christians do not really have any reasonable (with deeper meaning) explanation for these parts of sayings of Jesus.

Some would say that verses in Matt.20:1-16 question actually point to divine generosity that transcends human ideas of fairness. Yes it can do that TOO (although first group complaining about payment because of extra-work and master getting furious about it does not really support it), but it is far more complex and long for that alone. It would have just be easy to say that master gives denar for workers, and that’s it.

Some say this Luke.13:6-9 is just numerical games. So tell me more reasonable and as compatible explanation. Fig tree is symbol of Judaism generally in Bible. Also when Jesus cursed fig tree in Matt.21:19 by words "may no fruit ever come from you again", he probably stated that no more prophets are going to come from Jews. And why time schedule fits so well in both of these to these religions, did Jesus not know about coming of Islam or did he not care how these look?

Most popular Christian interpretation is that here Jesus told how disciples were hired in "first" and "third" hours as apostles (it does not make sense at all, as all disciples were "hired" at once by Jesus, not in two time periods, and why would apostles be unhappy about later Christians entering also paradise, even before them, as they were one to convert them?), and that from "sixth" to "ninth" hour is about apostle Paul (again, why it would have been said to happen between these two time-periods, and not just in one?), and that in last hour is talked about all later Christians (who will come "first even though they were last", why would they enter paradise before apostles, and especially why would apostles go mad about them going one second before them into paradise, as all mentioned in parallel are saved anyway?).

But point here is, why did Jesus, propably most intelligent human ever lived, used so complicated words just to describe most simple of things, about God giving reward for believers? Could it not have been said just by few simple words that everybody would understand (especially if it is not even prophecy)? Did he have to promote his ability for making parallels? Did he use "big words" just to confuse us, especially Muslims who see this as prophecy?

At least in my interpretation there is not only prophecy about coming of Islam, and description/time-schedule about "People of the Book" mentioned in Qur´an 600 years later, but also warning that people should follow most recent prophet to be saved for sure, allthough believers of previous religions have been right too, and have been saved.

Some Thoughts on AbduRahman's Isaiah Prophecy:

I should not be tedious to anyone on this subject, especially as a response to posts made earlier. However, it has often been said many times that Christians have no answers to issues raised by some Moslems conducting "research" of sorts. The funny thing is that Abdulrahman's excessively long posts said next to nothing, especially when clarity is lacking. Apart from taking Bible verses out of contexts and arriving at completely different meanings from what the texts say, he leaves many of us wondering what he was all about in the first place, not to even mention the basic questions of salvation and faith in the true God. His very drab and unconnected story-telling in his first opening paragraphs - that's another matter. I do not mean to say anything derogatory, but the whole exercise leads me to ask just one question: Was Abdulrahman trying to prove that the claims of Biblical Christianity were not true? If Isaiah prophesied two opposing faiths (Christianity and Islam), where does that leave you and me in God's plan of salvation, because we all know that these two faiths have no connections? I'm still scratching my head for his answers.

M.

m4malik:

Some Thoughts on AbduRahman's Isaiah Prophecy:

I should not be tedious to anyone on this subject, especially as a response to posts made earlier. However, it has often been said many times that Christians have no answers to issues raised by some Moslems conducting "research" of sorts. The funny thing is that Abdulrahman's excessively long posts said next to nothing, especially when clarity is lacking. Apart from taking Bible verses out of contexts and arriving at completely different meanings from what the texts say, he leaves many of us wondering what he was all about in the first place, not to even mention the basic questions of salvation and faith in the true God. His very drab and unconnected story-telling in his first opening paragraphs - that's another matter. I do not mean to say anything derogatory, but the whole exercise leads me to ask just one question: Was Abdulrahman trying to prove that the claims of Biblical Christianity were not true? If Isaiah prophesied two opposing faiths (Christianity and Islam), where does that leave you and me in God's plan of salvation, because we all know that these two faiths have no connections? I'm still scratching my head for his answers.

M.

true talk!!!!! just straight out of my mouth!!!!!!

umaiyad:

In the name of Most Merciful:

Here Jesus announced that He has been send to direct those few chosen Christians by Bible to Islam and to Muslim-countries (like for me it did):

John.10:16 ”I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen (offspring of Ishmael, not Isaac-Jewish). I must bring them also (Jesus in Quran and monotheism/prophesies in Bible). They too will listen to my voice (same message), and there shall be one flock and one shepherd (monotheistic believers and prophets teaching about one God, now only Islam).”

Matt.18:12-14 “What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the MOUNTAINS and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. In the same way, my Father in heaven does not want one of these little children to be lost.”

Luke.15:4-7 “What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the DESERT (open pasture) and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbours, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost! I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. “

Here words (leaving other sheep’s at SAFELY HOME in) “MOUNTAINS” and “DESERT” describe general nature in Muslim-countries near Christian countries.

Matt.9:12-13 “But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” Luke.9:56 “for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.”

So Jesus WAS (prophesied) king, Messiah, he divided Rome to east and west by religious differences (about power), Muslims got East Rome because of that, Byzantium. And he “sacrificed”, for sake of both Muslims and Christians, but he did not need to make it to forgive all sins of mankind, but perhaps only in describing way (for that all who will find Islam get to start with no sins again). If Europe, America and Africa had remind in paganism and with ruler-gods, persecution for Muslims would have been much worse than it was for Christians, who did not have such strict demand for total monotheism. With saints for example Christianity could easily to be one to replace pagan-god´s in Europe (god was replaced by saint, holidays with Christian holidays), America and Africa, and so bring them again closer to Islam.

Luke.12:51-52 “Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.”

So house of Abraham is divided because of different beliefs on Jesus, mainly to 3 Christian religions (Orthodox, Catholics, Protestants) and to two Islamic religions (Sunni and Shiite). And it has NOT been denyed that these could battle even with other sects among themself, but most commonly conflicts have happened between Islam and Christianity.

Matt.12:26-27 Jesus told us that Islam can not be from satan, as it directs worshipping and bowing to God of Abraham, reason why satan fall from heaven, and so would never tell to do so. Even Jesus spoke about God of Abraham, “Father”, not about Jehovah for example. And “I am truth, way, and life” does not mean Jesus was god, but a prophet who taught TRUTH in monotheistic teaching about one God, who gave us WAY and example in worshipping on knees face to ground and being totally submitting to God, and all this will give LIFE. All Muslims have to believe in Jesus TOO to be Muslim.

Matt.21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

As Jesus told (to ALL people who were there, so “Christians”, his followers, also, not just to priests who even might not be there then anymore, but left him after he answered theirs question much earlier), Jews (and its sect Christianity as it is based only to Jewish nation) lost kingdom of God when it was given to Arabs, ONE nation (Christianity is not based on other single nation but Jews).

Matt.22:45 “If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he (Jesus) be his son?"

Here only possibility could be that spirit of Jesus were born before David, and so Jesus was in “high rank” compared to David (Jesus is most mentioned prophet in Qur´an). Idea about Jesus being son of David, from descent of David, refutes idea about actual “son of God”, as if Jesus had no human father, then he did not have genetically background in David who was relative of Joseph. So why would God be his genetic father then, if even David was not? So Jesus confirmed evolution (see my writing in link "Human development / Evolution", and there about Jesus saying he was before Abraham), and that he is “son of God”, prophet, as Jews understood it (look at link "Jesus warned about Paul", but not son of Allah...



More about Islam prophesied by Jesus in Bible, for example how Jesus prophesied Islam and schedule of it, and how he did describe "People of the Book" (and schedule of those), mentioned only in Qur´an 600 years later:

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/koran/

About Scientific Miracles in Qur´an (and also about Paul and rest of Bible) :

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/

JESUS PROPHESIED "KINGDOM OF GOD" (click to make picture larger):

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/islam/

...... and your point is....?

AbduRahman's Isaiah Prophecy...food for thought.

AbduRhaman:
  6. For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
                  And the government will rest on His shoulders;
                  And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
                  Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

           As Jesus, also Mohammed (puh) were given to us, although in case of Jesus focus is much more in his 
          birth. Government will rest on shoulders of Mohammed, and on Him who send Mohammed and ordered
          him to act and to do as he did, in founding of government. This is not about Jesus, he did not found
          government. "Wonderful Counsellor" describes amazing Quran and numerous hadiths, over two million
          of them, and amount of information on those for nearly all aspects of life. "Mighty God" and "Eternal
          Father" describes God of Islam, Allah (not Jesus-loves-you-all-god), from Whom Mohammed (and also
          Jesus) preached about, and how Allah will be eternity and will not change a bit . Prince of Peace is about
          Allah, Islam and Mohammed together, their common affect on world and about peace they brought.


The Prophecy of Isaiah 9:6-7 is well understood by Christians to point to just one Person - the Lord Jesus Christ. However, AbduRahman seems to force an unwarranted interpretation into the text to include a second person, and thereby defeats his own point.

1. First, he fails to see that the text refers to just one Person; at least, that shouldn't be difficult to see if only close attention was paid to simple English. The child to be born was still the same son to be given to us; and the rest of that verse was speaking about Him.

                And the government will rest on His shoulders;
                And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
                Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Notice, the text did not say that the government would rest on 'their' shoulders, but on 'His' shoulders! Likewise, 'His' name (referring to just one Person) - not 'their' names. So, the prophecy does not point to Mohammed and 'the amazing Qur'an and the numerous hadiths, over two million of them,' blah, blah, blah. It's amazing that AbduRahman attempts to squeeze out the main character of the prophecy ("This is not about Jesus," so he could introduce his ideas through the back door.

2. In quoting Biblical texts, one should seriously ask if AbduRahman has any shred of belief in the Bible, let alone try to "interpret" or explain it. If he does not believe that the Bible is the Word of God, what's the point trying to quote from and interpret it in such a way as to try to "prove" that Isaiah was all about Islam?

3. We are told in verse 7 of the same prophecy that, "Of the increase of his (that is, Christ's) government and peace there will be no end. He (again, Jesus Christ) will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom,..." Two things come to mind here: (a) David's throne, and (b) the government or Kingdom.

AbduRahman interprets the term 'David's throne' this way: [..."reigned from David’s throne" (throne of religions of Abraham) is Islam that spread through THREE continents..."]. AbduRahman may not believe in the Bible, but he should note that David was not an Arab - he was a Jew! Isaiah's prophecy has got nothing to do with Islam. With all respect, we note that the prophet Mohammed was an Arab, and so could not have been qualified to legally "reign on David's throne and over his kingdom." Moreover, Jesus Himself reiterated that 'salvation is of (or from) the Jews' (John 4:22) - not from the Arabs. Thus, because Jesus was a Jew and of the lineage of David, He was the appointed One to reign on David's throne. This was precisely what people called Jesus in the first century:

       "And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?" [Mat 12:23]
       "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give
        unto him the throne of his father David." [Luke 1:32]
       "And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me." [Luke 18:38]
       "Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of
        Bethlehem, where David was?" [John 7:42]

In my next post I'll treat the meaning of the Kingdom or government, just so that I don't out-do myself in this one.    However, this just shows that any forceful interpretation of Isaiah's prophecy (or any other Biblical text for that matter) to mean the rise and progress of Islam is simply not justified.

M.

Now, concerning the government or Kingdom, we are told that the prophecy was not about Jesus because He "did not found government" (AbduRahman's quote: "This is not about Jesus, he did not found government"). Really? It all depends on what type of kingdom Jesus meant when He spoke about it.

Hear Him:

    "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:20-21).

    And again: "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." [John 18:36]. 

From these scriptures, it is clear that the Kingdom was not to be understood in literal form as other kingdoms: it was not a physical, politico-religious dynasty or any of such. If anyone would see the Kingdom that Jesus came to preach, there would have to be a spiritual rebirth that would radically affect the heart of sinful man. This is precisely what salvation is about: being born again.

    "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again,
      he cannot see the kingdom of God." [John 3:3].

Whatever meanings anyone would derive from the term "Kingdom of God", it certainly would not point to Islam, as AbduRahman supposes. It was not a question of peace by the sword ("...then would my servants fight," said Jesus); rather, it was one that we have in our hearts for the mercy and grace provided for everyone through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. In effect it says: "Let God rule in your heart by the power of the Holy Spirit." This comes only by faith in the Son of God.

Many blessings,

M.

I think his point is that jesus preached islam.

NOT TRUEEEEEEE

God is good, he gave us freewill Luv u jesus

Stop trying to argue with christians! When God wants to show himself to you he will!

m4malik 1st post: I should not be tedious to anyone on this subject, especially as a response to posts made earlier. However, it has often been said many times that Christians have no answers to issues raised by some Moslems conducting "research" of sorts. The funny thing is that Abdulrahman's excessively long posts said next to nothing, especially when clarity is lacking. Apart from taking Bible verses out of contexts and arriving at completely different meanings from what the texts say, he leaves many of us wondering what he was all about in the first place, not to even mention the basic questions of salvation and faith in the true God. His very drab and unconnected story-telling in his first opening paragraphs - that's another matter. I do not mean to say anything derogatory, but the whole exercise leads me to ask just one question: Was Abdulrahman trying to prove that the claims of Biblical Christianity were not true? If Isaiah prophesied two opposing faiths (Christianity and Islam), where does that leave you and me in God's plan of salvation, because we all know that these two faiths have no connections? I'm still scratching my head for his answers.

Centuries between can make some differences to interpretations and understanding of religious text. Here you have just created Jesus vs. pharisees situation, where both sides say that their interpretation is correct, and so another ones are wrong.

Hindus also think their (way of) religion is only real religion, and they even use same "proofs" for it.

---Was Abdulrahman trying to prove that the claims of Biblical Christianity were not true?---

If you make (force) Jew worshipping God of Abraham into a molt of god, how could it be (at least in some parts of it)?

---If Isaiah prophesied two opposing faiths (Christianity and Islam), where does that leave you and me in God's plan of salvation, because we all know that these two faiths have no connections? I'm still scratching my head for his answers.---

And you (sorry that I say this, but I also believe into evolution) ape will continue to scratch your head, until you read Koran and understand that Islam is BUILD ON TOP OF Christianity and so Judaism. These are three different parts of same story according to Islam, even though those might not be it for you. But now it is not matter of your opinion, but about opinion of Bibble.

m4malik 2nd writing: AbduRahman's Isaiah Prophecy, food for thought.

AbduRhaman:
6. For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

As Jesus, also Muhammad (puh) were given to us, although in case of Jesus focus is much more in his
birth. Government will rest on shoulders of Muhammad, and on Him who send Muhammad and ordered
him to act and to do as he did, in founding of government. This is not about Jesus, he did not found
government. "Wonderful Counsellor" describes amazing Quran and numerous hadiths, over two million
of them, and amount of information on those for nearly all aspects of life. "Mighty God" and "Eternal
Father" describes God of Islam, Allah (not Jesus-loves-you-all-god), from Whom Muhammad (and also
Jesus) preached about, and how Allah will be eternity and will not change a bit . Prince of Peace is about
Allah, Islam and Muhammad together, their common affect on world and about peace they brought.


The Prophecy of Isaiah 9:6-7 is well understood by Christians to point to just one Person - the Lord Jesus Christ. However, AbduRahman seems to force an unwarranted interpretation into the text to include a second person, and thereby defeats his own point.

It was just said that Jesus (actually more like Christianity than Jesus) was prophesied in verses from Isaiah in other passages ALSO mentioned, not here. This is about Muhammad. Christians do not have any right to claim that theirs interpretations about Bible is right and so others are not, as even Jews, whom had Bible in the first place, do not agree with that.

So THERE WAS NOT any "defeats his own point".

1. First, he fails to see that the text refers to just one Person; at least, that shouldn't be difficult to see if only close attention was paid to simple English. The child to be born was still the same son to be given to us; and the rest of that verse was speaking about Him.

And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

In Bible there is much parallels, even from Jesus. Have you taken your eye out yet, or have you ever took a look at a women?

Notice, the text did not say that the government would rest on 'their' shoulders, but on 'His' shoulders! Likewise, 'His' name (referring to just one Person) - not 'their' names. So, the prophecy does not point to Muhammad and 'the amazing Qur'an and the numerous hadiths, over two million of them,' blah, blah, blah. It's amazing that AbduRahman attempts to squeeze out the main character of the prophecy ("This is not about Jesus," so he could introduce his ideas through the back door.

"Theirs" is trough prophet, that "single person". And Qur´an and hadiths are from that "single person"

2. In quoting Biblical texts, one should seriously ask if AbduRahman has any shred of belief in the Bible, let alone try to "interpret" or explain it. If he does not believe that the Bible is the Word of God, what's the point trying to quote from and interpret it in such a way as to try to "prove" that Isaiah was all about Islam?

According to Islam not ALL from Bible are (totally) corrupted. My faith does not depend on it. So why not?

3. We are told in verse 7 of the same prophecy that, "Of the increase of his (that is, Christ's) government and peace there will be no end. He (again, Jesus Christ) will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom,, " Two things come to mind here: (a) David's throne, and (b) the government or Kingdom.

AbduRahman interprets the term 'David's throne' this way: [, "reigned from David’s throne" (throne of religions of Abraham) is Islam that spread through THREE continents, "]. AbduRahman may not believe in the Bible, but he should note that David was not an Arab - he was a Jew!


Isaiah's prophecy has got nothing to do with Islam. With all respect, we note that the prophet Muhammad was an Arab, and so could not have been qualified to legally "reign on David's throne and over his kingdom." Moreover, Jesus Himself reiterated that 'salvation is of (or from) the Jews' (John 4:22) - not from the Arabs. Thus, because Jesus was a Jew and of the lineage of David, He was the appointed One to reign on David's throne. This was precisely what people called Jesus in the first century:

Then why did you say this:

[/quote] m4malik 3rd writing:
From these scriptures, it is clear that the Kingdom was not to be understood in literal form as other kingdoms: it was not a physical, politico-religious dynasty or any of such.
[quote]

So why did you rule Muhammed out of "lineage of Abraham" (so as David)?

Udaiyah,

Go back and read my thread. It does not appear that you have presented a well articulated writeup in response to mine, but have only let your passions run wild in search of clauses that you deliberately and personally want to consider as errors on my part. Until you gather your statements together and speak some sensible English, I would not be bothered with your yo-yo.

Wow. malik, thank God you said it. I didnt want to be the one to say that udaiya's posts are always incomprehendable. I always get a headache trying to understand what shes trying to say.

Udaiyah, please try to proof read your posts before posting cause you always end up saying nothing.

@Abdulrahman: yada yada yada blah blah blah, and a whole lot of stuff like that you can conjure up in your ever long posts aimed at undermining christianity.

Very interesting.

What a load of crap coming from these confused moslems.  Muhammad's confusion about Christianity has snow-balled into a large edifice that has completely blinded the adherents of Islam to the truth.

Reading what is supposed to be an argument set forth by the originator of this post brings into perspective Muhammad's lack of understanding of the Christian faith, and consequently, his zeal to set up a faith that is intellectually acceptable to him.

Go back and do your home work properly guys.  When you have a point, then let us know about it, but so far, all I see here is balderdash.

yOU ALL ARE SCARING THE CREEPS OUT OF ME MEN.

Is there sanity remaning on this thread? I don't even get the point 1 person is trying to make.

Oh yea, there is a lot of 'sanity'.

Someone(the originator of this thread) decided to leave his 'holy' book and use the Bible to authenticate what he worships.

We state very clearly that the
1. Bible does not mention his prophet, directly or indirectly.
2. His quotations are at best a display of gross ignorance.
3. If his 'holy' book cannot be relied upon to authenticate his prophet, then alluding to the Bible is the first step at undermining whatever he believes.
4. Many events, men and ideas have been prophesied in the Bible, however, God in his wisdom did not consider the prophet being canvassed important enough to be included in the Bible.

Abdurahman, How many times did I call U?
, So much energy put into a meaningless submission. Sorry O!!! We aint all dumb on Naira Land.
U can Tell that To The Mujaheedins. They might believe you, Dont try the marines cos the'll smoke u.

Boring, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Balderddash, Loads of Baloney !!!!