bigfrancis21:


You barely mentioned a few places with 'thriving' yoruba populations. However, Igbos are scattered all over Nigeria. There are THRIVING Igbo populations in countless places in Nigeria. Their populations in non-igbo states come second to the population of the natives. In those areas you have mentioned as having 'thriving' yoruba populations, i'm sure Igbos in those areas outnumber the yorubas, if not thrice their population. Not only in Nigeria will you find Igbos, but all over Africa, Europe, Asia etc. This is only a tip of the iceberg that indicates the independent mindedness of Igbos as a whole.

And when you said Igbos love to travel because it is just the way they are, yes that's true. That is the independent mind spirit I was referring to earlier which Yorubas have but not to the level of the easterners. It is a driving force within Igbos that make them want to travel out to other regions in search of business opportunities.

BlaqCoffee109:
There are jocular anecdotes told of the Igbo people...a couple of then I favor...if you get to a strange land and find no Igbo man therein,you Berra port or while theres war in Syra, or any other place for that matter,the Igbo man is defying all odds to do his business in the midst of it! The doggedness,tenacity,the business acumen and industrious spirit of the Igbo man..amazing..admirable!
I went through a thread of a certain nairalander whom whimsically stated her admiration for Igbo men...I smiled to myself on her newfound dedication; a thought occurred to me to get the issue of intertribal marriage to the front burner..albeit focusing on the IBO tribe..I detest generalisation in any context, but there are some perceived stereotypes which borders on some inherent truth...this brings up the question:

Why is it that some or most Igbo men no matter their love or commitment to any woman that is non-igbo will leave that same woman and must marry one of their own? ..no matter the stand of the man,the relatives,Umunna..especially if the man have sisters would subjugate the non Igbo wife of their brother and frustrate to the point of ruining the relationship of their brother to his non Igbo girlfriend or wife so that he can marry "properly" an Adaobi..on the flip side,the Igbo females have less trouble marrying non-igbo men...I understand there are Igbo men and women whom have had the liberty of choice to marry non-igbos..that given,the above stated is a fundamental issue...now will the agitation for Biafra fuel the prejudice of intertribal marriage of Igbo sons to non Igbo women? Why do the igbos kick frantically against their sons marrying non-igbo women?

bigfrancis21:


Even some half yoruba half igbo people in relationships with full yorubas have been told by their yoruba spouses to hide the fact that they are Igbo from their yoruba spouse's parents.

I hope you are aware of this?

bigfrancis21:


You barely mentioned a few places with 'thriving' yoruba populations. However, Igbos are scattered all over Nigeria. There are THRIVING Igbo populations in countless places in Nigeria. Their populations in non-igbo states come second to the population of the natives. In those areas you have mentioned as having 'thriving' yoruba populations, i'm sure Igbos in those areas outnumber the yorubas, if not thrice their population. Not only in Nigeria will you find Igbos, but all over Africa, Europe, Asia etc. This is only a tip of the iceberg that indicates the independent mindedness of Igbos as a whole.

And when you said Igbos love to travel because it is just the way they are, yes that's true. That is the independent spirit I was referring to earlier which Yorubas have but not to the level of the easterners. It is a driving force within Igbos that make them want to travel out to other regions in search of business opportunities.

tpiander:


This is either wonderful lies or wonderful craze.

However, I don't think this is your first time of posting some type of nairaland beer palour gist.

Btw, how is a half yoruba half igbo person an igbo? They don't know their yoruba parent?

EVILFOREST:

NOW we just have to end this long decades question.

------IF BUHARI marries another Fulani in addition to 3 other Fulanis... I guess it's not a problem.

------IF OBA of Lagos marries another Yoruba lady in addition to the present yoruba ladies.... . I guess it's not a problem.

But IF an IGBOMAN decides to marry chi-chi, it becomes a NATIONAL QUIZ.

PLEASE, if IGBOS don't marry their DAUGHTERS who will..?

I guess why IGBO is generating so much concern is because IGBOS are hot-cakes when it comes to marriage and they are ubiquitous.

FULANIS rarely marry outside their tribe.
HAUSAS rarely marry outside their tribe.
YORUBAS just started marrying outside their tribe.
But
IGBOS have been marrying outside since...
Examples
Nnamdi Azikiwe got married to an hausa lady.
Ojukwu despite his anti-north ordeal still paid the bride price of his hausa lady.

Peter (artist) got married to a Yoruba lady and many more.

IGBOS are typical NIGERIANS than any NIGERIAN quote me wrong.
They travel to build and live in other parts.
They learn your language to get u, get their businesses.
They respect host communities cultures.
They extend helping hands.
They are proud (part of their culture not their fault)
They pay their taxes
They marry from d communities wia dey find success.
They always want PEACE because of their businesses.
They respect traditional rulers ask Gov. Suswam
YET they are the MOST MARGINALIZED of the 3 main tribes in Nigeria by the federal government.

Thank you

scholes0:


Your statement was that Yorubas are not enterprising nor Independent, and that they do not travel outside their region..... That has been proven to be false.
Now, back to the question of living in the east, Would you compare the Number of Nigerians from various ethnicities living in the West and Nrth to those living in the East?

EVILFOREST:



IGBOS are typical NIGERIANS than any NIGERIAN quote me wrong.

If wandering around the country makes me more Nigerian , then its safe to say fulanis are the the most patriotic Nigerians

They travel to build and live in other parts.

Igbos are not the only ones with homes outside their shores, there are uncountable number of Yoruba-owned homes in the north

They learn your language to get u, get their businesses.

Do they have a choice? There are yorubas who will school Hausas in their language.My grandma is a good example

They respect host communities cultures.

By calling Lagos no man's land

They extend helping hands.



They are proud (part of their culture not their fault)

Well, i don't know any tribe in nigeria that's not proud of her culture

They pay their taxes

This is their duty, they have to

They marry from d communities wia dey find success.

Another lie

They always want PEACE because of their businesses.

Yes oo like the shenanigans going on in Alaba

They respect traditional rulers ask Gov. Suswam

You can see how Akiolu is repeatedly praised on this forum.Igbos need to reduce the adulations they rain on that man you know.Only God deserves those kind of praises

YET they are the MOST MARGINALIZED of the 3 main tribes in Nigeria by the federal government.

Because they play bad politics

Thank you

bigfrancis21:


I have a witness in the person of a half-yoruba half-igbo nairalander on this forum who personally narrated her ordeal in the hands of a Yoruba man she was dating.

bigfrancis21:


No. Don't quote me wrong. I never said what you are suggesting. I said they are not 'independent minded ENOUGH' to travel out to other regions. By the qualifier, 'enough', it automatically tells you that some Yorubas may be independent minded but not to the extent of the easterners. Please learn to read and understand words carefully.

bigfrancis21:


No. Don't quote me wrong. I never said what you are suggesting. I said they are not 'independent minded ENOUGH' to travel out to other regions. By the qualifier, 'enough', it automatically tells you that some Yorubas may be independent minded but not to the extent of the easterners. Please learn to read and understand words carefully.

BlaqCoffee109:
..Aare,this is Nation building in our own little capacity here on nairaland..give the gentleman a break mehn..

xoxom:
Would have loved to contribute to this discuss until I saw tribal bigots.

Aareonakakanfo:







Swiree i haven't done anything wrong na. I was only correcting his lies

Gboliwe:


Me too. I think "she" is just inching for a tribal bashing. "She" has emphasised it obviously. I wonder why Bigfrancis is feeding "her"

What people gain from displaying such hate for an ethnic group beats me.

Aareonakakanfo:
Scholes0 abeg try sending that message to me again

bigfrancis21:


The only tribe who will have issues with living in the east is the Yoruba because they are hardly independent minded and enterprising enough to travel outside their region to survive.

Also, many are discouraged by the tough competition that must be going on in the east, given the tough competition the Igbos are giving in Lagos and other SW states already.

The crux of the matter is that the average yoruba man feels insecure when he is outside of his own region. He doesn't feel comfortable when he is not in the midst of his own people. The ones that travel to the north happen to be muslims and fitting in in the north is not an issue for them. It is not an issue of not feeling comfortable in the east. Lots of non-Igbos are residing peacefully in the east.

TerraCotta:


This poster often makes these types of inane comments. He is not alone in being incurably addicted to ethnic stereotyping so there's not much point in engaging with him (although I'm grateful to others like Radoillo and Scholes who do God's work by replying!) I do have to correct some simplistic comments that I often see repeated by ignorant posters on Nairaland. Anyone who feels offended because they fit the bill of 'ignorance' may wish to look up the meaning of the word.

Yoruba entrepreneurs have lived and continue to live all over Nigeria and West Africa, in numbers rivaling if not outnumbering any other migrant groups. I'm not interested in score-settling with shallow-minded tribal chestbeaters but the facts are the facts and we have both anecdotal and empirical evidence to support this view. You will find Yoruba traders in every rural corner of northern and central Nigeria, and in a chain of communities stretching throughout West Africa up to the Ivory Coast. Entrepreneurial travel is a foundational aspect of Yoruba culture, as I've written here before. It's enshrined in the traditional religion through "Aje shaluga" and Olokun, and is well-presented in hundreds of proverbs, and in ancient and contemporary patterns of commerce. The market is still the locus of society in most rural settings, and cities built along traditional plans like Ibadan still demonstrate the central role of the market in Yoruba life. A brilliant, under-appreciated book on this theme was published in the early 1980s and is called "The Entrepreneur As Culture-Hero"--the author is Professor Bernard Belasco, formerly of the City University of New York. More recent books by Toyin Falola and Jane Guyer go further into Yoruba economic history and anthropology from the 19th century to the present.

Even further back in time, the economic development of Ile-Ife was most likely due to its trade in the luxury goods of the day (9th-14th century West Africa), which included the beaded jewelry, ivory and bronze/brass/copper-alloy artwork produced there: http://www.icom-cc.org/54/document/wg-glass-and-ceramics-interim-meeting-corning-2010--preprint-ige/?action=Site_Downloads_Downloadfile&id=1278
The city was wealthy enough to attract the attention of Muslim scholars like Ibn-Battuta, who is believed to have written about 14th-century Ife under the name "Yufi"--similar to the indigenous Ife-Ijesa and Okun-Ondo dialect version of the town name, "Ufe". There is some controversy about this record but it appears to be correct in calling Ife "one of the largest towns of the negroes, whose ruler is one of the most considerable of the negro rulers." As suggested by this record, Yoruba cultures have long placed an importance on living in primarily urban arrangements; they are considered one (if not the most) urbanized societies in Africa prior to colonization. Urbanization requires societies open to immigration, entrepreneurship, religious, linguistic and cultural mixing. To my mind, this tradition is strongly upheld in Yoruba culture and partially explain both the size and economic vitality of many Yoruba cities like Lagos and Ibadan.

Coming back to the revolting bigotry that pushes someone to say a group of 35 million people aren't "independent-minded and enterprising enough to travel outside their region to survive". The mindset that generates this type of simple-minded comment can't be cured by posting on the Internet, unfortunately. Thankfully, it can be partially relieved through reading and travel, so more facts:

Yoruba Traders in Cote D'Ivoire: http://www.ajol.info/index.php/afrrev/article/view/43614 (This was, until recently, the country with the highest per-capita GDP and living standards in West Africa)

The Yoruba Migrant Entrepreneur Experience in Ghana: http://www.imi.ox.ac.uk/events/amw-2008/papers/olaniyi.pdf and https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=IjlzSYnAKdQC&pg=PA217&lpg=PA217&dq=yoruba+ivory+ghana&source=bl&ots=fu3niM8Tif&sig=pkXGVgPr9-1yvmJHRPbG-i08KTE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDAQ6AEwCWoVChMIn-6-6qSWyAIVJCymCh0iAg64#v=onepage&q=yoruba%20ivory%20ghana&f=false

The Yoruba ethnonym "Anago" or "Nagot" is synonymous with "Nigerian" in both the Ivory Coast and Ghana, which suggests the significance of the Yoruba migrant population in both countries.



This is senseless, given the documented travel patterns above. If there were economic opportunities and societal openness rivaling Cote D'Ivoire and Ghana in the East, you would expect to see more migration there. Unlike some of the silly inferences I read on Nairaland, migrant labor does not move to new areas out of an altruistic need to "develop" a community. Migrant traders like the Yoruba in these countries, or in London, Dubai and so forth, go to these places because there are more economic opportunities than they would have at home. They are leaving to "strike it rich", not to perform philanthropy. It is a clear comment on the perceived inferior quality of Nigerian schools that students would rather attend university in Ghana and Malaysia (and of course the U.S. and U.K.) It may wound Nigerian pride to hear it, but that won't make it less true. Likewise, if Yoruba traders go to every other region and nation on Earth but avoid specific ones in large numbers, there is likely to be a straightforward explanation that doesn't require the tortured logic of the quoted statement.



Your claims are demonstrably false as shown above, since there are literally millions of Yoruba people living outside their region for three or more generations, at this point. They live in a wide variety of other communities inside and outside Nigeria. The more probable truth is that you and others who think and talk like you represent a strain of thought and lack of openness in your region that most Yoruba people would find unacceptable. Coming from cosmopolitan backgrounds where they are used to celebrating a variety of ethnic and religious backgrounds, they are unlikely to be attracted to that rudimentary approach to life and a general lack of courtesy and decorum. If there were some overriding economic reasons to live in the East, there would undoubtedly be many hardy migrants who are indifferent to these issues. For instance, there are Yoruba traders established in Hong Kong and Dubai, which are certainly more economically competitive and less culturally-familiar to them than Eastern Nigeria. The appeal is the economic opportunity that the first two choices offer and that the last appears to lack. Whether or not this lack of opportunity is true has little to do with my point that BigFrancis typifies a lack of cultural courtesy and decorum that many (if not most) Yoruba would find repellant.

Bigotry comes easily to the shallow-minded and inexperienced and it's tempting (but difficult) to ignore it if you have a nuanced and open-minded view of the world. Nairaland taught me a log time ago that engaging with dyed-in-the-wool bigots is a waste of time--they either grow out of their ignorance through their own efforts or inevitably face shame and correction from a source they admire and trust more than an anonymous internet poster. It is important to correct nonsense like the first quoted statement because impressionable readers who don't have a wider appetite for information might buy it.

SonOfEl:



most of the yorubas I have queried as regards this trend of not doing business in IGBO land says because IGBOS are too crafty in doing business.

scholes0:


For lack of a better way to put it, the region is simply unattractive. If a census is done in Nigeria tomorrow, and we are told there are 20 Million people in the SE, I can be sure 19.5 million of them are aboriginals.
Some Yorubas go to Onitcha to buy goods, while a few others do craft work like building- but outside of these- there isn't much to do in the SE honestly.

SonOfEl:


unattractive? that would be insincere of them. Hausa's and other ethnicities are in IGBO land , doing whatever business they can, I think its because the business environment in the east is tough and too competitive even for an Igbo man sef...if IGBOS could rear cattle, the hausa-fulanis would have left IGBO land since.

bigfrancis21:


No. Don't quote me wrong. I never said what you are suggesting. I said they are not 'independent minded ENOUGH' to travel out to other regions. By the qualifier, 'enough', it automatically tells you that some Yorubas may be independent minded but not to the extent of the easterners. Please learn to read and understand words carefully.

BlaqCoffee109:
eh mehn,take a chill pill...your shoulders just hunched on hearing I am part Yoruba..on the low..guys on queue for me to wife them am taking my time on choosing..I am yet to decide on being with a naij man..

bigfrancis21:


You barely mentioned a few places with 'thriving' yoruba populations. However, Igbos are scattered all over Nigeria. There are THRIVING Igbo populations in countless places in Nigeria. Their populations in non-igbo states come second to the population of the natives. In those areas you have mentioned as having 'thriving' yoruba populations, i'm sure Igbos in those areas outnumber the yorubas, if not thrice their population. Not only in Nigeria will you find Igbos, but all over Africa, Europe, Asia etc. This is only a tip of the iceberg that indicates the independent mindedness of Igbos as a whole.

And when you said Igbos love to travel because it is just the way they are, yes that's true. That is the independent spirit I was referring to earlier which Yorubas have but not to the level of the easterners. It is a driving force within Igbos that make them want to travel out to other regions in search of business opportunities.

bigfrancis21:


Don't try to shift Yoruba tribal bigotry on the Igbos. Yorubas are as tribalistic as every other tribe in this country and this attitude is prevalent in the politics they play since Nigeria's independence. Yorubas discriminate against 'omo ibos' in dating, relationships, housing and tenancy etc. On the other hand, Igbos prefer to marry their own because they believe their own is the best. I guess that balances the scale.

bigfrancis21:


I strongly believe that you recently fell deeply in love with an Igbo guy, who later left you for an Igbo girl.

I would advise you not to take it personal. That Emeka did not marry you does not mean Obinna will not marry you. If you truly like Igbo guys, keep searching and you'll definitely find one who is willing to make you his oriaku.

TerraCotta:

TerraCotta:


This poster often makes these types of inane comments. He is not alone in being incurably addicted to ethnic stereotyping so there's not much point in engaging with him (although I'm grateful to others like Radoillo and Scholes who do God's work by replying!) I do have to correct some simplistic comments that I often see repeated by ignorant posters on Nairaland. Anyone who feels offended because they fit the bill of 'ignorance' may wish to look up the meaning of the word.

Yoruba entrepreneurs have lived and continue to live all over Nigeria and West Africa, in numbers rivaling if not outnumbering any other migrant groups. I'm not interested in score-settling with shallow-minded tribal chestbeaters but the facts are the facts and we have both anecdotal and empirical evidence to support this view. You will find Yoruba traders in every rural corner of northern and central Nigeria, and in a chain of communities stretching throughout West Africa up to the Ivory Coast. Entrepreneurial travel is a foundational aspect of Yoruba culture, as I've written here before. It's enshrined in the traditional religion through "Aje shaluga" and Olokun, and is well-presented in hundreds of proverbs, and in ancient and contemporary patterns of commerce. The market is still the locus of society in most rural settings, and cities built along traditional plans like Ibadan still demonstrate the central role of the market in Yoruba life. A brilliant, under-appreciated book on this theme was published in the early 1980s and is called "The Entrepreneur As Culture-Hero"--the author is Professor Bernard Belasco, formerly of the City University of New York. More recent books by Toyin Falola and Jane Guyer go further into Yoruba economic history and anthropology from the 19th century to the present.

Even further back in time, the economic development of Ile-Ife was most likely due to its trade in the luxury goods of the day (9th-14th century West Africa), which included the beaded jewelry, ivory and bronze/brass/copper-alloy artwork produced there: http://www.icom-cc.org/54/document/wg-glass-and-ceramics-interim-meeting-corning-2010--preprint-ige/?action=Site_Downloads_Downloadfile&id=1278
The city was wealthy enough to attract the attention of Muslim scholars like Ibn-Battuta, who is believed to have written about 14th-century Ife under the name "Yufi"--similar to the indigenous Ife-Ijesa and Okun-Ondo dialect version of the town name, "Ufe". There is some controversy about this record but it appears to be correct in calling Ife "one of the largest towns of the negroes, whose ruler is one of the most considerable of the negro rulers." As suggested by this record, Yoruba cultures have long placed an importance on living in primarily urban arrangements; they are considered one (if not the most) urbanized societies in Africa prior to colonization. Urbanization requires societies open to immigration, entrepreneurship, religious, linguistic and cultural mixing. To my mind, this tradition is strongly upheld in Yoruba culture and partially explain both the size and economic vitality of many Yoruba cities like Lagos and Ibadan.

Coming back to the revolting bigotry that pushes someone to say a group of 35 million people aren't "independent-minded and enterprising enough to travel outside their region to survive". The mindset that generates this type of simple-minded comment can't be cured by posting on the Internet, unfortunately. Thankfully, it can be partially relieved through reading and travel, so more facts:

Yoruba Traders in Cote D'Ivoire: http://www.ajol.info/index.php/afrrev/article/view/43614 (This was, until recently, the country with the highest per-capita GDP and living standards in West Africa)

The Yoruba Migrant Entrepreneur Experience in Ghana: http://www.imi.ox.ac.uk/events/amw-2008/papers/olaniyi.pdf and https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=IjlzSYnAKdQC&pg=PA217&lpg=PA217&dq=yoruba+ivory+ghana&source=bl&ots=fu3niM8Tif&sig=pkXGVgPr9-1yvmJHRPbG-i08KTE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDAQ6AEwCWoVChMIn-6-6qSWyAIVJCymCh0iAg64#v=onepage&q=yoruba%20ivory%20ghana&f=false

The Yoruba ethnonym "Anago" or "Nagot" is synonymous with "Nigerian" in both the Ivory Coast and Ghana, which suggests the significance of the Yoruba migrant population in both countries.



This is senseless, given the documented travel patterns above. If there were economic opportunities and societal openness rivaling Cote D'Ivoire and Ghana in the East, you would expect to see more migration there. Unlike some of the silly inferences I read on Nairaland, migrant labor does not move to new areas out of an altruistic need to "develop" a community. Migrant traders like the Yoruba in these countries, or in London, Dubai and so forth, go to these places because there are more economic opportunities than they would have at home. They are leaving to "strike it rich", not to perform philanthropy. It is a clear comment on the perceived inferior quality of Nigerian schools that students would rather attend university in Ghana and Malaysia (and of course the U.S. and U.K.) It may wound Nigerian pride to hear it, but that won't make it less true. Likewise, if Yoruba traders go to every other region and nation on Earth but avoid specific ones in large numbers, there is likely to be a straightforward explanation that doesn't require the tortured logic of the quoted statement.



Your claims are demonstrably false as shown above, since there are literally millions of Yoruba people living outside their region for three or more generations, at this point. They live in a wide variety of other communities inside and outside Nigeria. The more probable truth is that you and others who think and talk like you represent a strain of thought and lack of openness in your region that most Yoruba people would find unacceptable. Coming from cosmopolitan backgrounds where they are used to celebrating a variety of ethnic and religious backgrounds, they are unlikely to be attracted to that rudimentary approach to life and a general lack of courtesy and decorum. If there were some overriding economic reasons to live in the East, there would undoubtedly be many hardy migrants who are indifferent to these issues. For instance, there are Yoruba traders established in Hong Kong and Dubai, which are certainly more economically competitive and less culturally-familiar to them than Eastern Nigeria. The appeal is the economic opportunity that the first two choices offer and that the last appears to lack. Whether or not this lack of opportunity is true has little to do with my point that BigFrancis typifies a lack of cultural courtesy and decorum that many (if not most) Yoruba would find repellant.

Bigotry comes easily to the shallow-minded and inexperienced and it's tempting (but difficult) to ignore it if you have a nuanced and open-minded view of the world. Nairaland taught me a log time ago that engaging with dyed-in-the-wool bigots is a waste of time--they either grow out of their ignorance through their own efforts or inevitably face shame and correction from a source they admire and trust more than an anonymous internet poster. It is important to correct nonsense like the first quoted statement because impressionable readers who don't have a wider appetite for information might buy it.