@thesilent1,

thesilent1:

OH MY GOSH!!!!!!!!!!! I AGREE WITH HORUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Be careful what you agree with, lest you be tagged as ignorant as they are. Just a gentle reminder you might need to hold close to your chest before examining the FACTS for yourself. 

@Horus,

Horus:

Within many religious sects the first scroll is interpreted as Genesis, but in the Aramic (Hebrew) language it translates to “barashith.” The word barashith comes from the root word bara – meaning, “to reconstruct, or reconstruction.”

Don't try to cheat your readers (that is, if anyone ever pays attention to you these days). Aramaic and Hebrew are closely related languages; but they are two very distinct languages. You should have the decency of being honest to yourself before posting anything in a public Forum. See the following links for the distinctions:

Hebrew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew_language

Aramaic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_language
http://www.answers.com/topic/aramaic


Infact, the word bârâ' does not mean 'to reconstruct, or reconstruction'. It is indicative of either of two possible meanings:

(a) 'to open up', with its cognate Hebrew bârâ'q meaning 'lightning';

(b) depending on the special Hebrew marks one uses for the consonantal, it could mean:
-- (Qal) to shape or fashion
-- (Niphal) to be created
-- (Piel) to cut out/cut down
-- (Niphil) to make fat

Except for ch. 31:47 (which is a translation of a Hebrew place-name), Genesis itself was not written in Aramaic, but rather in the Hebrew langauge. So, you cannot take the name of the book out of its Hebrew distinctives and make it an Aramaic word in order to arrive at your slanted idea.The Hebrew word for Genesis is not 'b[b]a[/b]r[b]a[/b]shit', but rather 'b^er[b]e[/b]shit' [בראשית (B'reshit or Bərêšîth)]. The word simply means "birth", "creation", "cause", "beginning", "source" or "origin" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis ).

It therefore stands that Genesis is not what you misinterpreted it to mean (as you always do). It is that book of "beginnings", and not the tale of your lost 'black jesus'.

@thesilent1,

Go check out the FACTS of how Horus is misleading you before celebrating what you don't know.

OH MY GOSH!!!!!!!!!!! I AGREE WITH HORUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

see brother, its not all bad between us

Does the Bible really too new for the world?

Please read my article entitled "A World Before the Genesis" from the link below

http://www.freedomwall.net/2009/11/does-bible-really-too-new-for-world-it.html

There are some very interesting and laughable comments on this subject. However many of the responses come from a bias and life educated system of indoctrination which places every comment in a box without merit or believability. I have looked at this scenario for many years, looked at many possibilities and had many open ended answers.

Outside of the text being considered no matter what language it was written, or whether it was in fact a dictate from God; we know over the centuries that there has always been a problem in translation, that problem being not so much the words themselves but the attitude of understanding and the way values change as man progresses and lives.

What is missing and is touched upon is the understanding of previous cultures prior to genesis.

It is now known that there has been life on this planet before with technology that we can not explain or decipher in some of the archeological findings over the last couple of hundred years. It is also during these findings discovered that the world has not always been rotating in the direction it is now and that the magnetic fields change periodically, so does this indicate a movement or a change in rotation as well? Geology would suggest yes this does happen.

If then this is the case, then the history of the bible from genesis would be concluded as true, it would also make sense of the fact that the book of Job is far older than Genesis.

Imagine then for a moment and humour me if you will? There was a cataclysmic event which shook the whole earth, changed its rotation and pole locations. The impact upon the earth would be colossal with tsunamis, some land masses turning to boiling mud, new mountain ranges being formed, continents divided and new lands pushed up from the sea whilst others sank and life as it was destroyed leaving all but a few surviving. We have evidence of this in Egyptian culture and the Mayans in Peru. Both lost civilizations though present day Egyptians would have you believe otherwise but have no idea why the pyramids were built or even how. If they were a successive dynasty they would still have the knowledge and I strongly feel they do have some secreted evidence to substantiate this comment which they refuse to release.

If as archeological finds suggest that man once knew how to fly but not in the same way we do today it would make sense that the few who survived the cataclysm would have witnessed darkness, what would seem morning and evening as the earth settled herself to a new stability in her orbit around the sun depending where they stood on the planet, and as the haze from the dust and moisture settled from the eruptions that would have occurred, stars would have seemed to have been formed.

Once stability of the planet and settlement of the elements came about. Those surviving would have been searching for life around the planet especially in animal form and ferry them back to safe ground and man would have been cataloging what species remained. To the primitive eye, it would seem like God creating or through translation would have been recorded that one man had been appointed director of the species as God brought them in.

And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: ( this being the time in which the tsunamis receded)[/i]and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. [i]This was confirmation of don't worry the seed is already there we have to wait for it to reappear

This is but a tip of the answer I see, but that in itself will create challenges especially to those that live by faith alone and one book namely the bible which has had many translations and stories told by leaders and preachers. However I will state here that despite this I do believe in a God, however what we are told is Gospel I question.

Where ever you have eliminated the impossible, what ever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

There are overwhelming archaeological evidences that there has been hundreds of "times of new beginning", more known as genesis on this planet, which indicate continual repetitions of processes of replenishing after periodical global cataclysmic events that devastate huge part of the planet and life had to be restarted over and over again. The bible merely described one of those restarts(probably the latest one).
On the question of whether there were pre-Adamic civilizations, depends on which Adam one is referring to, since there have been hundreds of Adams during this planet's long long history. If the one referred to is the biblical one, then the answer is quite obvious. Even the bible surreptitiously gave the answer to that question by mentioning the discovery of civilizations that were already in existence by the Adam family after they left the garden.

all that mentioned above are your suggestions but not the truth we were born from flesh not from spirit and we cannot know what is supremacy
billion years ago universe existed and can you know who existed first between God and the Universe when you talk about world you refer to planet earrth so we can conclude that other planets existed maybe before planet earth formed but we do not know exactely when this happened those adamic myths are men invention

Not quite sure who you are responding too FMK, however despite what appears to be suggestions to you in my input, most can be confirmed by archeological facts if we were to delve deeper. Also whilst physics is not my forte' not for the want of trying. It would appear the universe is a whole and all would be of the same age. There is a good probability other planets do house life and probably in a separate universe. Yes I do refer solely to planet earth because this is all we know despite space travel and in depth physics.

There is no such thing as an adamic myth. A myth is only a concept of fact that has been far removed from understandability or comparison. A traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature. And there are many rites throughout the world in different cultures that have their origins in the beginning of this epoch.

Nature is not a myth, yet we accept it with clarity and without question and existed at the same time as man as far as we know or can prove at this juncture or survival.

@ topic

its quite possible

Truthseeke:



There is no such thing as an adamic myth. .

if the fact is an history without material proof that is a myth or legend even jesus used those ways to make people understand the gospel .when talking about The richman and Lazarius the poorman this fact was not a truth but a legend that can be the same with Adamic existence no one was there the rest is history

FMK:

if the fact is an history without material proof that is a myth or legend even jesus used those ways to make people understand the gospel .

From your own words then if Jesus is a fact which is history of which there is no material proof, then Jesus is a Myth or a Legend. Moses wrote about Adam, the disciples supposedly wrote about Jesus, but the two most quoted in the new testament is Luke and Paul who never saw him.

Its convenient is it not that Myths suit the story teller to enforce his own precepts? What I wrote or tried to generalize based on discoveries over the last 200 years, in no way depicted my observations as a truth but rather a hypothesis which not many would care to even consider because of indoctrination over the last two thousand years on a faith that has a very shaky foundation.

FMK:

even jesus used those ways to make people understand the gospel .

As an aside, how could Jesus make people understand the Gospel when it had not yet been written?

[img width=500 height=500]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/after-eden/20040726.gif[/img]

Why show up since they still have millions years to spare?

Truthseeke:

As an aside, how could Jesus make people understand the Gospel when it had not yet been written?

Lol! You got him there.

Truthseeke:

From your own words then if Jesus is a fact which is history of which there is no material proof, then Jesus is a Myth or a Legend. Moses wrote about Adam, the disciples supposedly wrote about Jesus, but the two most quoted in the new testament is Luke and Paul who never saw him.

if you go back to this jewish origin (jesus)  you will descover that his history is not a Myth   because we got Materials proof  he had a Father called Jose and Mother called Marry   and we know till nowdays where he was burried .  and we know his nation  any way  you will not give me a good answer if i ask you where did the Garden of eden was  in which part of the world ?  because there is no traces  forstances, Dinosaur  existence dated billion years but we got traces and we know that this  Amphibious existed  where is traces for adam ?

[img width=500 height=500]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/after-eden/20091120.gif[/img]

Here is an upcoming novel with answers! an all--inclusive and comprehensive literature on the question of whether there was life before Genesis 1:1.
It is titled Times of the supermen
You can join the facebook group to sign up for information about the book.
Thanks y'all.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33129597588&ref=search

topisdo:

Yes there is. Gen 1 says it vividly. The Bible says in the earth was formless and void. God couldn't have created what was formless. He created it in Gen 1:1. there was a huge apocalypse in which the earth was destroyed and for millions of years it was so until He descided to create it again in Gen 1:2.
This is the huge thing between science and the Bible. that is why we have dinosaurs dating millions of years while the Bible says Adam came 6000 years ago. That is why we have homo erectus .e.tc.
OOOOOOOOOO Knowlege draws us closer to Yehovah!

Good point @Topisdo.  In addition, " the earth was formless and void". Which earth is  formless and void?  The one created  before or after. I believe the probelm could be translation from Hebrew to english.

Truthseeke:

As an aside, how could Jesus make people understand the Gospel when it had not yet been written?

go read luke 4:18

Was There A World Before Genesis 1? No.

Nothing new under the sun. The age which one prescribes for the earth is extremely dependent on one's view of creation. There are five major theories on the interpretation of the six days of creation.

1. The pictorial day theory claims that the six days mentioned in Genesis are the six days in which God revealed to Moses the events of creation. But the bible relates the creation as clearly, simply, and historically as it does other events. To interpret the text in this manner requires the abandonment of all exegetical principles.

2. The gap view claims that Genesis 1:1 describes and original creation which was followed by the fall of Satan and great judgment. Genesis 1:2 is then supposed to be a description of the recreation or restoration that took place. The Old Scofield Bible [Also Dake's Bible] maintains that the condition of the earth in verse two is the result of judgment, and therefore interprets the verb "hayah" as "became". However the Hebrew construction of verse two is disjunctive, describing the result of the creation described in verse one. The phrase "without form and void" is often misunderstood because of this rendering. These words are found only in a few other places (Is 34:11; 45:18; Jer 4:23). They do not describe chaos but rather emptiness and so would mean "unformed and unfilled". Exodus 20:11 teaches that all the universe, including the heavens and the earth, was created in the six day period mentioned in Genesis 1.

3. The intermittent view claims that the days mentioned are literal days, but that they were separated by long periods of time. This view is in direct contradiction of Exodus 20:11 and conveniently ignores the recurring phrase: "And the evening and the morning. . ." which describes the passage of the six days.

4. The day-age theory claims that the word "yom" which is the Hebrew word for "day" is used to refer to periods of indefinite length, not to literal days. While this is a viable meaning of the word, it is not the common meaning, nor is the meaning of the word sufficient foundation for the theory. Moreover it ignores the clearly stated meaning of Exodus 20:11. The phrase "And the evening and the morning" indicates literal days (cf. Daniel 8:14, where the same phrase in Hebrew is translated "day"

5. The literal day view accepts the clear meaning of the text: the universe was created in six literal days. The various attempts to join together the biblical account of creation and evolution are not supportable even by the various gap theories.

God of His own will and by His absolute power called the universe into being, creating it out of nothing (Ex 20:11; Ps 33:6, 9; 102:25; Is 45:12; Jer 10:12; John 1:3; Acts 14:15; 17:24; Rom 4:17; Col 1:15-17; Heb 3:4; 11:3; Rev 4:11). When one acknowledges the absolute power of God, he must accept His power to create and destroy as stated in the Scriptures. The believer must accept these things by faith.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

I believe the world was created in six days because God said so.

[img width=500 height=500]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/after-eden/20091002.gif[/img]

simple question: was there a world before Genesis 1? if not please answer these questions.
1. there is no record of the creation of water in genesis 1. so when was it created?
2. what did God mean when He asked man to re-plenish the earth? remember replenish means to fill up something that has been depleted.
3. when God banished lucifer from heaven which earth did he fall to? was it the one that already contained adam and eve?

Gen 1

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said,"Let there be light"; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 Then God said,"Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 Then God said,"Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 Then God said, "Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying,"Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind"; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said,"Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them,"Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
29 And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
NKJV

nlemonwu A:

simple question: was there a world before Genesis 1? if not please answer these questions.
1. there is no record of the creation of water in genesis 1. so when was it created?
2. what did God mean when He asked man to re-plenish the earth? remember replenish means to fill up something that has been depleted.
3. when God banished lucifer from heaven which earth did he fall to? was it the one that already contained adam and eve?

^^^Stop being lazy and read the bible for yourself.

nlemonwu A:

simple question: was there a world before Genesis 1? if not please answer these questions.
1. there is no record of the creation of water in genesis 1. so when was it created?

Water was created in the beginning. Where in the text does it suggest that water was not created in Genesis 1:1, unless you are adding your preconceptions and making the text say what it does not.

Genesis 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

nlemonwu A:

2. what did God mean when He asked man to re-plenish the earth? remember replenish means to fill up something that has been depleted.

Again you interpolate your own presuppositions. What does the scripture itself say:

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

What is the meaning of the word replenish as used by the translators of the KJV?

Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English]Replenish
REPLEN'ISH, v.t. [L. re and plenus, full.]

1. To fill; to stock with numbers or abundance. The magazines are replenished with corn. The springs are replenished with water.

Multiply and replenish the earth. Gen 1.

2. To finish; to complete. [Not in use.]

REPLEN'ISH, v.i. To recover former fullness.[/quote]

Thus you rush to use the second intransitive form of the word while conveniently ignoring the first transitive meaning!

What about the Hebrew word translated "replenish"?

Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries:
מלא מלא
mâlê' mâlâ'

A primitive root, to fill or (intransitively) be full of, in a wide application (literally and figuratively): - accomplish, confirm, + consecrate, be at an end, be expired, be fenced, fill, fulfil, (be, become, X draw, give in, go) fully (-ly, -ly set, tale), [over-] flow, fulness, furnish, gather (selves, together), presume, replenish, satisfy, set, space, take a [hand-] full, + have wholly.

Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Definitions:
מלא / מלא
mâlê' / mâlâ'
BDB Definition:
1) to fill, be full
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to be full
1a1a) fulness, abundance (participle)
1a1b) to be full, be accomplished, be ended
1a2) to consecrate, fill the hand
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to be filled, be armed, be satisfied
1b2) to be accomplished, be ended
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to fill
1c2) to satisfy
1c3) to fulfil, accomplish, complete
1c4) to confirm
1d) (Pual) to be filled
1e) (Hithpael) to mass themselves against
Part of Speech: verb

And so you see other translations of the same verse say:

Genesis 1:28 (ESV):

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

Genesis 1:28 (LITV):
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the seas, and over birds of the heavens, and over all beasts creeping on the earth.

[quote author=nlemonwu A:

3. when God banished lucifer from heaven which earth did he fall to? was it the one that already contained adam and eve?

Yes.

Ezekiel 28:13-15 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. (14) Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. (15) Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

toba:

go read luke 4:18

If your calling me satan or of his tribe your furthest from the truth, however it does not substantiate the aside.

aletheia whilst I commend your explanation, are we not entering into the world of pedantic's and drawing away from the discussion.

FMK:

If you go back to this Jewish origin (Jesus)  you will discover that his history is not a Myth   because we got Materials proof  he had a Father called Jose and Mother called Marry   and we know till nowadays where he was buried .  and we know his nation  any way  you will not give me a good answer if i ask you where did the Garden of Eden was  in which part of the world ?  because there is no traces  for instance, Dinosaur  existence dated billion years but we got traces and we know that this  Amphibious existed  where is traces for Adam ?

But that is my argument against what you stated FMK.  Adam most certainly had a Father (God) as Moses related, and the Gospels which were written after Jesus also states he had a mother and father.  Beyond literature in testimony there is no other evidence.

As to your statement about Dinosaurs; findings suggest that man and dinosaurs co-existed prior to the flood of Noah.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/giants.htm

If this is the case then this is the nearest evidence to suggest that intelligent life existed before Genesis, it supports a world cataclysm and that the few survivors had to start all over again.  Carbon dating also supports dinosaurs not as old as first thought, a world cataclysm would also support Mammoths being frozen in-situ whilst still eating and would suggest a complete flip of the earth on its axis changing the poles.

The irony behind all this is that mankind follows like sheep two or three sentences amplified over and over again and hold it as gospel when so much evidence is out there of a different structure.  If reality were to be performed Genesis has not yet happened because mankind worships a Myth created by man in his need for something more than what we are.  Man has been kept in fear by religion and is only just breaking out of it.  Please note I did not say kept in fear by God, but by religion.

FMK:

 any way  you will not give me a good answer if i ask you where did the Garden of eden was  in which part of the world ?  

You make a statement as if you know where it is. However there is new information daily that changes the perception. It has been in Mid Africa at one point. But one thing we can be certain of is it is in the Middle East as are all other stories surrounding God and Jesus. The fact that Eden translates (fertile plain) it could have even been Egypt at one time, or now as supposed around Saudi Arabia, or even Ethiopia as is the surmised story and resting place of Noah's Ark.

This might give you an insight as to how complex it can be trying to find out. Unless we have or find clear record of Old River beds, I don't suppose we will ever truly know.

http://ldolphin.org/eden/

Truthseeke:

aletheia whilst I commend your explanation, are we not entering into the world of pedantic's and drawing away from the discussion.

No sir, it needed to be pointed out that those basing their arguments for a pre-Adamic creation on Genesis 1:1 & Genesis 1:28 don't have a leg to stand on.

aletheia:

No sir, it needed to be pointed out that those basing their arguments for a pre-Adamic creation on Genesis 1:1 & Genesis 1:28 don't have a leg to stand on.

Interesting comment alethia, however if Genesis 1:1 and 1:28 support a new creation or creation as a beginning should I say, but evidence by geology and archeology prove life existed before this period, surely in retrospect it does support the theory and the original question.

TayoD: @Bobbyaf,


There is no grounds for this conclusion in the scriptures. I have showed earlier that God did not create the earth formless. "And the earth became without form and void, " is a popular alternative rendering of that passage in Genesis 1:2. Here is the proof once again:

An evidence that the earth was not created the way we find it revealed in Genesis 1:2 can be found in Isaiah 45:18: For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. [/color]
The Hebrew word translated VAIN here in Isaiah is the same word used in Genesis 1:2 as WITHOUT FORM. The Hebrew word is transliterated as TOHUW. The word expresses a chaotic state, a state of emptiness, nothiness, wasteland or wilderness.
In other words, God did not create the earth WITHOUT FORM as reported in Genesis 1:2. The earth became WITHOUT FORM due to some events that occured between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.


While this conclusion may be right, it is not specifically stated in the scriptures (at least, as far as i know).


Truly, the Hebrew word "ALM", translated replenish actually means to fill up. In other words, God was instructing man to fill up the whole earth and not just remain in the Garden. I believe a direct violation of this instruction is one major reason why God confounded the language of the people at Babel. Men wanted to stay in one place, and God had to scatter them to the ends of the earth by the various languages in order to fulfil His commandment to 'fill' up the earth.


Lucifer fell well before Adam and Eve were created. Infact, the scriptures reveal that Lucifer was the one entrusted with the first Garden of Eden. Make no mistake, God's plan will and must be fulfilled. Earth will be recreated again after this one is gone, and the Garden of Eden will still be in the new earth. God will not be defeated.

Read Ezekiel 28: 11-19 to figure out what I said about Lucifer being the first Occupier of Eden.
[color=#990000]11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

We'll continue from here.

I don't know about Ezekiel 28 11-19 being any proof of Lucifer being the first occupier of Eden... Following your example, an earlier chapter in Ezekiel, 26:1 says that "And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, (2) Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against . . . " and goes on as you have said. But then in Ezekiel 29:1,2 etc., the Bible says that "In the tenth year, in the tenth month, in the twelfth day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, (2) Son of man, set thy face against Pharaoh, king of Egypt . . . " So according to your example of Ezekiel, Egypt is already in existence, which seems like it may be contrary to Genesis.

Drusilla: Actually there is another verse that one may throw into the mix:

I tell the end in the beginning.

Is Genesis 1, the end or the begining?

The begining after the world is totally destroyed from war and God's wrath in Revelations?

Drusilla, where is this quote from please?