Okay, so President Buhari was interviewed by Mehdi Hasan in the Al-Jazeera English programme "Upfront". Mehdi Hasan is a 36year old, British Indian political journalist that has had work stints with BBC1, Channel 4, the Huffington Post, and of course presently Al-Jazeera English. He's known for his courtroom like, brash and maybe harsh style of interviews. Recall he was the one who interviewed Oby Ezekwensili in that Head to Head programme(Head to Head - Nigeria's future- Failed state or African superpower) still available on YouTube, where he was trying to get her to say that Obasanjo was corrupt. She did say her fair share of "listen to mes" during the interview. It's therefore some kudos to President Buhari and his team that they are not shying away or afraid of speaking with and to the press both internationally and locally. It's not easy to speak on BBC's Hardtalk, or with CNN's Christine Amanpour or Al-Jazeera's Mehdi Hasan. In my assessment, President Buhari did excellently well in taking the questions, and even the interview in the first place. He's shown great poise, class, intellect, and a fairly good view of the issues discussed. I'm certain many newspaper reports will be coming and have started coming from the things said and unsaid in the about 12minute interview. For the benefits of a wider coverage and reading who can easily access NL and read, as against watching on Al-Jazeera or YouTube, here is the transcript of the interview. Thank you for thanking me
Mehdi Hasan: President Buhari, thanks for joining me on "Upfront". Earlier this year, you became the leader of a country facing a huge drop in the price of its biggest export oil, with corruption out of control, and with boko haram still massacring hundreds of Nigerians month after month. Is it fair to say that your country is in a state of crises?
PMBuhari: Yes certainly, we have being going through crises which we properly articulated during our campaigns, and we properly identified security, problem of economy, unemployment and corruption as you've mentioned. But since we were sworn in, I believe positive actions have been taken and the results are very clear to us here, and to those who are keenly observing our development. We have been able to re-organize the military. They are being trained, they are in the process of re-equipping, they are certainly taking and gaining grounds against boko haram.
Mehdi Hasan: Let's talk about boko haram, whose brutal campaign of violence has led to more than 20,000 deaths. Since 2009, more than a million and a half Nigerians displaced from their homes in the North of the country. You've told your army chiefs I believe, that you expect boko haram to be defeated by the end of this year, by December. Surely that's completely unachievable, that's a fantasy deadline.
PMBuhari: Well, you're entitled to your own opinion. When I gave the service chiefs the target of end of December, it's because I'm physically on the ground. And maybe you'll like to recall that we have got Lake Chad Basin Commission comprising Cameroun, Chad, Niger, Nigeria and Benin. And it's known that Nigeria is the main battleground. And we have agreed among ourselves to dedicate a number of troops in certain places by the end of last month, so that with the coming of the DRY SEASON by the end of the year, there will be a spontaneous move against Boko Haram in their area of operation in the subregion.
Mehdi Hasan: You say you want them defeated by December. They've spent the past week blowing up targets in Nigeria, in Cameroun, in Chad. more than a thousand people have been killed by boko haram since you were elected President in March of this year. Things don't seem to be getting any better, Nigerians don't seem to be any safer.
PMBuhari: On the ground, physically, things are getting better. I've just mentioned that after the re-organization, we put new service chiefs. Troops that were in the front were pulled back, re-trained, re-equipped and sent back again. And if you are observing clearly, the area of operations. The two states, mainly Borno and Yobe, boko haram is MAINLY reduced now to using IEDs(Improvised Explosive Devices).
Mehdi Hasan: Mr President, a thousand people dead since you were elected President. That doesn't sound like Nigerians are safer from boko haram. PMBuhari: Well, at least we're being honest about it. Whenever there is an attack, there are casualties, we mention it. We don't hide anything from anybody. But definitely, in terms of occupying ground, we are gaining ground, and boko haram is virtually being confined to Sambissa forest. And with night operations, well coordinated, they are really disorganized. And as soon as the rainy season(caveat, he obviously meant dry season and said so earlier, and every Nigerian knows so about the coming harmattan/dry season at the end of the year) comes, which is by the end of the year, coinciding by what promise we made, boko haram will virtually be out of their main stronghold. And that will be the end of it. But what we cannot guarantee really, is the question of using IEDs(Improvised Explosive Devices) in public places. That operation by boko haram MAY continue beyond the target that we gave. But articulated attack by boko haram on townships, on military installations will certainly stop.
Mehdi Hasan: And if you don't meet your December deadline what will you do, will you apologize, will you resign, what's the repercussions if you don't meet your deadline? PMBuhari: Well, one thing you will certainly remember, I will not resign. I will be determined to stay and fight it out.
Mehdi Hasan: Okay, and it's been 18 months now since more than 200 Chibok school girls were taken captive by boko haram, they are still not yet been found. When you were running for President, you said to Al-Jazeera that the then government knew where they were, and you attacked your predecessor for not given a quote "cohesive reason" as to why he couldn't rescue the girls. Now you are in charge of the government, so why haven't you been able to find them yet?
PMBuhari: We have an idea of where the girls are. Our main problem is, and what we promised to the constituencies of where these girls were abducted is that we want to rescue them alive. There are boko haram leadership that wanted us to discuss, but we have to prove that they are bona fide. We want to make sure, they have to prove to us that they are alive, they are well, and then we can promise them and negotiate with them.
Mehdi Hasan: So you will negotiate with them, you will do a deal with boko haram, offer them money or a prisoner exchange. You're willing to do that to get the girls back?
PMBuhari: Yes, we said it, and we meant it. If we are satisfied that the girls are alive.
Mehdi Hasan: What will you offer, what will you offer if they are alive, money or prisoners?
PMBuhari: Well, it depends on the negotiation with the leadership of boko haram.
Mehdi Hasan: The Nigerian military hasn't just failed to defeat boko haram, it has also carried out massive human right abuses in the process. The U.S States Department, the European parliament, human Rights Watch, Amnesty International all documented extra-judicial killings, torture, arbitrary arrests, burning down of homes, plenty of abuses by the Nigerian military. What are you doing as President, and as a former General to stop all of that from happening?
PMBuhari: We promised to investigate and punish all those that are responsible.
Mehdi Hasan: You say you're going to investigate and prosecute. Amnesty International opened an office this week inside of Nigeria. but have you done what Amnesty have recommended? they've given you the names of several senior military officers who should be investigated for war crimes. You've sacked a couple of them, but have you actually investigated them, are you going to prosecute those 9 named individuals that Amnesty International have given you? (Caveat; O fe ko igbo si Baba lápo)
PMBuhari: I haven't received that report personally.But the re-organization of the military is part of the compliance with the observation raised by Amnesty International. If I get those documents, the way you seem to be so confident that we have received them.
Mehdi Hasan: They're available publicly online, they were published a month after you took office. Your spokesperson acknowledged that he's read the report, names are out there, and you haven't investigated or prosecuted anyone as far as we know. Are you going to prosecute the offices who were accused of committing war crimes?
PMBuhari: It's very difficult for me to start prosecuting people based on a newspaper publication. I made an undertaking that if I get that report, I will take action. the person you said my spokesperson said I have seen the report. I don't think any of my spokesperson, my bona fide spokesperson has given me that report and I just put it in the waste basket or somewhere.
Mehdi Hasan: Mr President, this is not a new report, this has been on for years. John Kerry the US Secretary of States talked about Human Rights violation by the Nigerian military in 2013. human rights watch documented the burning of homes, torture in 2014. This is not a new allegation?
PMBuhari: What I want, I want us to go beyond talking. All you are telling me, that the United States Secretary of State have talked about it, Amnesty International have written... And I have told you that I haven't received these authentic documents that you are referring to. When I get that document, I read it, I assure you that those that are guilty will be identified, they will be punished according to Nigerian laws.
Mehdi Hasan: Okay well, the Human rights group have put the evidence out there for several years now. can I just clarify with you. boko haram claim to support what they call "Sharia law". They stone women to death, they cut the hands off of thieves, do you yourself. I know you're a Muslim from Northern Nigeria. Do you support the imposition of these types of punishment across Nigeria, because there's a quote from you from 2001, where you allegedly say "God willing, we will not stop the agitation for the total implementation of the Sharia in the country". Is that still your view, Mr President?
PMBuhari: Nigerians by their constitution have the right to pursue any religion that they want to. But there is a fundamental issue here, No religion advocates hurting the innocent. Boko haram are finding it difficult to get volunteers voluntarily now. Because they can't go and slaughter children in their sleep, kill people in churches, kill people in mosques, in motor parks,(Mehdi cuts in) in markets and shout 'allah akbar'
Mehdi Hasan: Mr President, we all agree on,,, I'm asking about punishments?
PMBuhari: Will you allow me to finish please. they can't kill people, innocent people and shout "Allah akbar". they either don't believe God is great, or they don't know what they are talking about. This clearly, nigerians in the constituency where boko haram are executing people, cutting hands, stoning them as you mentioned, have understood that. Boko haram is anything but Islamic. This is very clear, we've said it, we put it in writing and we've mentioned it.
Mehdi Hasan: You are very clear on that and I think we all agree that boko haram are not the godly people that they claim to be. I'm asking you about the punishments, that do you support the stoning for adultery, or cutting of hands as part of Nigerian law across nigeria? Some say you support it.
PMBuhari: NO, Nigerian law does not allow for that.
Mehdi Hasan: And you don't want to change the law to allow stoning or any of these more brutal punishments to be brought in?
PMBuhari: I cannot change it, I haven't been voted by majority of Nigerians to change the Nigerian Constitution.
Mehdi Hasan: Just before we finish, one last question. You ran for on a campaign of CHANGE. You were the CHANGE candidate. Many people will say that you are a 72yr old ex-general, military ruler, military dictator in the 1980s. How are you the change that Nigerians want, that young Nigerians are so keen for, and can you guarantee that you won't be a dictator again?
PMBuhari: Under this system, I cannot be a dictator. I have just told you the system we are following now. The people I wanted to be in my cabinet, i have to send them to the Senate. And it's up to the Senate to find them suitable or unsuitable to be in the cabinet. Whateverthe Senate broughtr back by the constitution of our country, I have to act on it.
Mehdi Hasan: Do you regret your rule in the 80s, you were accused of human rights abuses, of being a dictator, of clamping down the press, do you regret that period of your life now that you're a democrat?
PMBuhari: If there is any injustice that can be proved against me when I was there, I will gladly apologize. But trying to stop corruption and indiscipline is not an injustice. And in fact, my coming back now under a different system is because of my performance in the last time, where I was been accused of dictatorship. Because people have seen the discipline, accountablity, order. And therefore a majority of Nigerians now voted me back under a different system.
Mehdi Hasan:Mr president, I believe we've run out of time, you have to go. thank you so much for joining me on Upfront.
Don't mind them, all they know is propaganda. They lost despite propaganda but still hold on to the same tactics. What's that quote about someone doing the same thing and expecting different results?
Very good performance by the president. He answered all the questions truthfully and made his points clearly. Kudos to the OP for giving us the transcribed version of the interview. This has clearly shamed the lies and propaganda that the wailers put out to confuse those that did not watch the interview.
Okay, so President Buhari was interviewed by Mehdi Hasan in the Al-Jazeera English programme "Upfront". Mehdi Hasan is a 36year old, British Indian political journalist that has had work stints with BBC1, Channel 4, the Huffington Post, and of course presently Al-Jazeera English. He's known for his courtroom like, brash and maybe harsh style of interviews. Recall he was the one who interviewed Oby Ezekwensili in that Head to Head programme(Head to Head - Nigeria's future- Failed state or African superpower) still available on YouTube, where he was trying to get her to say that Obasanjo was corrupt. She did say her fair share of "listen to mes" during the interview. It's therefore some kudos to President Buhari and his team that they are not shying away or afraid of speaking with and to the press both internationally and locally. It's not easy to speak on BBC's Hardtalk, or with CNN's Christine Amanpour or Al-Jazeera's Mehdi Hasan. In my assessment, President Buhari did excellently well in taking the questions, and even the interview in the first place. He's shown great poise, class, intellect, and a fairly good view of the issues discussed. I'm certain many newspaper reports will be coming and have started coming from the things said and unsaid in the about 12minute interview. For the benefits of a wider coverage and reading who can easily access NL and read, as against watching on Al-Jazeera or YouTube, here is the transcript of the interview. Thank you for thanking me
Mehdi Hasan: President Buhari, thanks for joining me on "Upfront". Earlier this year, you became the leader of a country facing a huge drop in the price of its biggest export oil, with corruption out of control, and with boko haram still massacring hundreds of Nigerians month after month. Is it fair to say that your country is in a state of crises?
PMBuhari: Yes certainly, we have being going through crises which we properly articulated during our campaigns, and we properly identified security, problem of economy, unemployment and corruption as you've mentioned. But since we were sworn in, I believe positive actions have been taken and the results are very clear to us here, and to those who are keenly observing our development. We have been able to re-organize the military. They are being trained, they are in the process of re-equipping, they are certainly taking and gaining grounds against boko haram.
Mehdi Hasan: Let's talk about boko haram, whose brutal campaign of violence has led to more than 20,000 deaths. Since 2009, more than a million and a half Nigerians displaced from their homes in the North of the country. You've told your army chiefs I believe, that you expect boko haram to be defeated by the end of this year, by December. Surely that's completely unachievable, that's a fantasy deadline.
PMBuhari: Well, you're entitled to your own opinion. When I gave the service chiefs the target of end of December, it's because I'm physically on the ground. And maybe you'll like to recall that we have got Lake Chad Basin Commission comprising Cameroun, Chad, Niger, Nigeria and Benin. And it's known that Nigeria is the main battleground. And we have agreed among ourselves to dedicate a number of troops in certain places by the end of last month, so that with the coming of the DRY SEASON by the end of the year, there will be a spontaneous move against Boko Haram in their area of operation in the subregion.
Mehdi Hasan: You say you want them defeated by December. They've spent the past week blowing up targets in Nigeria, in Cameroun, in Chad. more than a thousand people have been killed by boko haram since you were elected President in March of this year. Things don't seem to be getting any better, Nigerians don't seem to be any safer.
PMBuhari: On the ground, physically, things are getting better. I've just mentioned that after the re-organization, we put new service chiefs. Troops that were in the front were pulled back, re-trained, re-equipped and sent back again. And if you are observing clearly, the area of operations. The two states, mainly Borno and Yobe, boko haram is MAINLY reduced now to using IEDs(Improvised Explosive Devices).
Mehdi Hasan: Mr President, a thousand people dead since you were elected President. That doesn't sound like Nigerians are safer from boko haram. PMBuhari: Well, at least we're being honest about it. Whenever there is an attack, there are casualties, we mention it. We don't hide anything from anybody. But definitely, in terms of occupying ground, we are gaining ground, and boko haram is virtually being confined to Sambissa forest. And with night operations, well coordinated, they are really disorganized. And as soon as the rainy season(caveat, he obviously meant dry season and said so earlier, and every Nigerian knows so about the coming harmattan/dry season at the end of the year) comes, which is by the end of the year, coinciding by what promise we made, boko haram will virtually be out of their main stronghold. And that will be the end of it. But what we cannot guarantee really, is the question of using IEDs(Improvised Explosive Devices) in public places. That operation by boko haram MAY continue beyond the target that we gave. But articulated attack by boko haram on townships, on military installations will certainly stop.
Mehdi Hasan: And if you don't meet your December deadline what will you do, will you apologize, will you resign, what's the repercussions if you don't meet your deadline? PMBuhari: Well, one thing you will certainly remember, I will not resign. I will be determined to stay and fight it out.
Mehdi Hasan: Okay, and it's been 18 months now since more than 200 Chibok school girls were taken captive by boko haram, they are still not yet been found. When you were running for President, you said to Al-Jazeera that the then government knew where they were, and you attacked your predecessor for not given a quote "cohesive reason" as to why he couldn't rescue the girls. Now you are in charge of the government, so why haven't you been able to find them yet?
PMBuhari: We have an idea of where the girls are. Our main problem is, and what we promised to the constituencies of where these girls were abducted is that we want to rescue them alive. There are boko haram leadership that wanted us to discuss, but we have to prove that they are bona fide. We want to make sure, they have to prove to us that they are alive, they are well, and then we can promise them and negotiate with them.
Mehdi Hasan: So you will negotiate with them, you will do a deal with boko haram, offer them money or a prisoner exchange. You're willing to do that to get the girls back?
PMBuhari: Yes, we said it, and we meant it. If we are satisfied that the girls are alive.
Mehdi Hasan: What will you offer, what will you offer if they are alive, money or prisoners?
PMBuhari: Well, it depends on the negotiation with the leadership of boko haram.
Mehdi Hasan: The Nigerian military hasn't just failed to defeat boko haram, it has also carried out massive human right abuses in the process. The U.S States Department, the European parliament, human Rights Watch, Amnesty International all documented extra-judicial killings, torture, arbitrary arrests, burning down of homes, plenty of abuses by the Nigerian military. What are you doing as President, and as a former General to stop all of that from happening?
PMBuhari: We promised to investigate and punish all those that are responsible.
Mehdi Hasan: You say you're going to investigate and prosecute. Amnesty International opened an office this week inside of Nigeria. but have you done what Amnesty have recommended? they've given you the names of several senior military officers who should be investigated for war crimes. You've sacked a couple of them, but have you actually investigated them, are you going to prosecute those 9 named individuals that Amnesty International have given you? (Caveat; O fe ko igbo si Baba lápo)
PMBuhari: I haven't received that report personally.But the re-organization of the military is part of the compliance with the observation raised by Amnesty International. If I get those documents, the way you seem to be so confident that we have received them.
Mehdi Hasan: They're available publicly online, they were published a month after you took office. Your spokesperson acknowledged that he's read the report, names are out there, and you haven't investigated or prosecuted anyone as far as we know. Are you going to prosecute the offices who were accused of committing war crimes?
PMBuhari: It's very difficult for me to start prosecuting people based on a newspaper publication. I made an undertaking that if I get that report, I will take action. the person you said my spokesperson said I have seen the report. I don't think any of my spokesperson, my bona fide spokesperson has given me that report and I just put it in the waste basket or somewhere.
Mehdi Hasan: Mr President, this is not a new report, this has been on for years. John Kerry the US Secretary of States talked about Human Rights violation by the Nigerian military in 2013. human rights watch documented the burning of homes, torture in 2014. This is not a new allegation?
PMBuhari: What I want, I want us to go beyond talking. All you are telling me, that the United States Secretary of State have talked about it, Amnesty International have written... And I have told you that I haven't received these authentic documents that you are referring to. When I get that document, I read it, I assure you that those that are guilty will be identified, they will be punished according to Nigerian laws.
Mehdi Hasan: Okay well, the Human rights group have put the evidence out there for several years now. can I just clarify with you. boko haram claim to support what they call "Sharia law". They stone women to death, they cut the hands off of thieves, do you yourself. I know you're a Muslim from Northern Nigeria. Do you support the imposition of these types of punishment across Nigeria, because there's a quote from you from 2001, where you allegedly say "God willing, we will not stop the agitation for the total implementation of the Sharia in the country". Is that still your view, Mr President?
PMBuhari: Nigerians by their constitution have the right to pursue any religion that they want to. But there is a fundamental issue here, No religion advocates hurting the innocent. Boko haram are finding it difficult to get volunteers voluntarily now. Because they can't go and slaughter children in their sleep, kill people in churches, kill people in mosques, in motor parks,(Mehdi cuts in) in markets and shout 'Allah akbar'
Mehdi Hasan: Mr President, we all agree on,,, I'm asking about punishments?
PMBuhari: Will you allow me to finish please. they can't kill people, innocent people and shout "Allah akbar". they either don't believe God is great, or they don't know what they are talking about. This clearly, nigerians in the constituency where boko haram are executing people, cutting hands, stoning them as you mentioned, have understood that. Boko haram is anything but Islamic. This is very clear, we've said it, we put it in writing and we've mentioned it.
Mehdi Hasan: You are very clear on that and I think we all agree that boko haram are not the godly people that they claim to be. I'm asking you about the punishments, that do you support the stoning for adultery, or cutting of hands as part of Nigerian law across nigeria? Some say you support it.
PMBuhari: NO, Nigerian law does not allow for that.
Mehdi Hasan: And you don't want to change the law to allow stoning or any of these more brutal punishments to be brought in?
PMBuhari: I cannot change it, I haven't been voted by majority of Nigerians to change the Nigerian Constitution.
Mehdi Hasan: Just before we finish, one last question. You ran for on a campaign of CHANGE. You were the CHANGE candidate. Many people will say that you are a 72yr old ex-general, military ruler, military dictator in the 1980s. How are you the change that Nigerians want, that young Nigerians are so keen for, and can you guarantee that you won't be a dictator again?
PMBuhari: Under this system, I cannot be a dictator. I have just told you the system we are following now. The people I wanted to be in my cabinet, i have to send them to the Senate. And it's up to the Senate to find them suitable or unsuitable to be in the cabinet. Whateverthe Senate broughtr back by the constitution of our country, I have to act on it.
Mehdi Hasan: Do you regret your rule in the 80s, you were accused of human rights abuses, of being a dictator, of clamping down the press, do you regret that period of your life now that you're a democrat?
PMBuhari: If there is any injustice that can be proved against me when I was there, I will gladly apologize. But trying to stop corruption and indiscipline is not an injustice. And in fact, my coming back now under a different system is because of my performance in the last time, where I was been accused of dictatorship. Because people have seen the discipline, accountablity, order. And therefore a majority of Nigerians now voted me back under a different system.
Mehdi Hasan:Mr president, I believe we've run out of time, you have to go. thank you so much for joining me on Upfront.
O fe ko igbo si Baba lápo)