Before this,till now, Agbor to Aro use Onitsha dialect. When?

I didn't come here to debate the popularity of Onitsha, because there is nothing to debate in that regard. I simply came here to correct some assertions as well as shed light on the nature of Onitsha's intelligibility (which incidentally correlates with its popularity). Onitsha's intelligibility isn't due to any inherent qualities. Instead, it is a consequence of its long history of exposure, from the landing of European missionaries to its development as an important trading port to its development as a modern economic hub.

Yet, despite all it's accumulated popularity (which isn't in doubt), Onitsha would still fail as a literary standard, just as it did the first time around. At the very least, it wouldn't hold up in the southern and eastern Igbo-speaking regions, and I believe the reasons should be apparent enough that we need not discuss them. I can't speak for the northern Igbo-speaking region though.

Ihuomadinihu:

Lol,haha. But it all depends on the actors in a particular movie. There are numerous actors in nollywood that don't use or speak onitsha dialect. Most of our top nollywood actors like Gen Nnaji, Oc Ukeje, Rita Dominic, Step Okereke,Ezuruonye etc are not yet in the full igbo movie industry, with time we are going to find out that everyone sticks to his/her igbo izugbe dialect.

But listen to the soundtracks especially by ''stanley okoro'',he is from Ebonyi but sings in the onicha lect,names of villages and people are mostly from the onitcha lect,they use ''The igwe'' title and Onowu etc
i was not wrong when i said the the onicha dialect take 90% in Nollywood

oboy3:
But listen to the soundtracks especially by ''stanley okoro'',he is from Ebonyi but sings in the onicha lect,names of villages and people are mostly from the onitcha lect,they use ''The igwe'' title and Onowu etc
i was not wrong when i said the the onicha dialect take 90% in Nollywood

Have you heard Genevieve speak igbo before? Those ones that speak Onitsha dialect more or less came from that axis or grew up there. Sometimes,it's important to check people's background before making a hasty generalization.
Even someone like Uche Ogbodo, (who hails from Enugu) who is supposed to be conversant with Onitsha dialect still struggles with it, not to talk of those from non onitsha igbo axis.
Some of those nollywood movies with igwe and onowu titles just highlight the onitsha culture. One thing that has disorganized nollywood is stereotypes and storyline repetition. That is why Olu Jacobs can play igwe 100, times which is now boring. Maybe,when they start showcasing other igbo cultures in the south,you would understand what we are talking about.

@Ihuomadinihu, all what you've highlighted are in tune with my thoughts. Ya ga zie gi .
@Chinenye, hope you were bluffing when you typed these lines:

The majority of the credit for the pervasiveness of Onitsha goes to the Catholic ministry. While the Anglicans adopted Union and the Methodists, Central, the Catholics kept Onicha, and a staggeringly large percentage of Igbo Christians are practicing Catholics.

Please do not confuse Onitsha-Igbo to Igbo-Izugbe (Standard Igbo). Are you a Catholic if I may ask? If you're not then sorry this area isn't your area of authority. As one who was born a Catholic and who have had the privilege of worshiping in various diocese in Orlu, Okigwe, Umuahia and Owerri eclessiatical province I can authoritatively tell you that we do not conduct mass in Onitsha-Igbo. We conduct all church activities in Central Igbo. You can go and verify if you want. Take the samples below for instance.
Onitsha-Igbo says Na afa nna
We say Na aha nna
Second
Onitsha-Igbo says Ekene dili Osebuluwa, onye nyelu umu odibo ya ama m Ife, Udo na oganiru na ogonogo ndu. Ekpele na alilio anyi bu, ka Ife...
In Orlu diocese we say Ekele diri Oseburuwa, onye nyere umu odibo ya ama m Ihe, Udo na oganihu na ogologo ndu. Ekpere na aririo anyi bu, ka Ihe...
Note the difference. Unless you meant to talk about the syntax or something else

Chiwude:
@Ihuomadinihu, all what you've highlighted are in tune with my thoughts. Ya ga zie gi .
@Chinenye, hope you were bluffing when you typed these lines:
Please do not confuse Onitsha-Igbo to Igbo-Izugbe (Standard Igbo). Are you a Catholic if I may ask? If you're not then sorry this area isn't your area of authority. As one who was born a Catholic and who have had the privilege of worshiping in various diocese in Orlu, Okigwe, Umuahia and Owerri eclessiatical province I can authoritatively tell you that we do not conduct mass in Onitsha-Igbo. We conduct all church activities in Central Igbo. You can go and verify if you want. Take the samples below for instance.
Onitsha-Igbo says Na afa nna
We say Na aha nna
Second
Onitsha-Igbo says Ekene dili Osebuluwa, onye nyelu umu odibo ya ama m Ife, Udo na oganiru na ogonogo ndu. Ekpele na alilio anyi bu, ka Ife...
In Orlu diocese we say Ekele diri Oseburuwa, onye nyere umu odibo ya ama m Ihe, Udo na oganihu na ogologo ndu. Ekpere na aririo anyi bu, ka Ihe...
Note the difference. Unless you meant to talk about the syntax or something else

And "Oseburuwa" happens to be Orlu dialect.

Chiwude, that excerpt is simply talking about what to credit for Onitsha's pervasiveness and familiarity. It's got nothing to do with the lect your diocese uses to hold mass. In fact, regardless of what lect your dioceses uses, it remains on [verifiable] historical record that the Catholic mission actively chose to maintain Onitsha, while the Anglican and Methodists adopted Union and Central, respectively. That is the only statement I made. And no, I am not saying that Onitsha is spoken in all Catholic churches. If I were, I would state so explicitly. Rather, my only statement and point concerns the fact that the Catholic church made the choice to maintain Onitsha, thereby facilitating the increased familiarity and pervasiveness of the lect.

NRIPRIEST:


And "Oseburuwa" happens to be Orlu dialect.

In places like Ideato North and Orsu you hear words like Oliseburuwa and Oseburuwa. When you come to Orlu/ Isu it becomes: Oriseburuwa and Oseburuwa.
Note the difference in Olisa, Orisa and Osa.

Ozuola nu. At the end of the day,nobody is adopting Onitsha igbo as the standard igbo izugbe. And nobody is adopting SCI in Onitsha as a standard dialect unless you want to learn and facilitate a conversation.
@Op you no try for this suggestion at all.

Ihuomadinihu:
Before this,till now, Agbor to Aro use Onitsha dialect. When?

If somebody from Agbor and Aro spoke to each other, they usually use Onitsha Igbo.

ChinenyeN:
Chiwude, that excerpt is simply talking about what to credit for Onitsha's pervasiveness and familiarity. It's got nothing to do with the lect your diocese uses to hold mass. In fact, regardless of what lect your dioceses uses, it remains on [verifiable] historical record that the Catholic mission actively chose to maintain Onitsha, while the Anglican and Methodists adopted Union and Central, respectively. That is the only statement I made. And no, I am not saying that Onitsha is spoken in all Catholic churches. If I were, I would state so explicitly. Rather, my only statement and point concerns the fact that the Catholic church made the choice to maintain Onitsha, thereby facilitating the increased familiarity and pervasiveness of the lect.

I can agree with you in syntax and maybe sentence structure. But in the dialectical flow we may be on different view.

ezeagu:


If somebody from Agbor and Aro spoke to each other, they usually use Onitsha Igbo.

Ezhiokwu? Where did you carryout this research? I've not come across that before.

I don't really care about what is spoken in Sountern Igbo land because I am not from there,yet I wouldn't like a situation whereby Anambra dialect is being corrupted by the influence of Igbo Izugbe or whatever the crap they call it. I know the structure of Igbo Izugbe is based on the Onicha/Idenmili axis but the pronunciation of the words represents what is spoken in southern Igbo land. And that is very dangerous!

Ihuomadinihu:

Ezhiokwu? Where did you carryout this research? I've not come across that before.

It's either that or pidgin, some minority may know Igbo Izugbe or something like it.

Ihuomadinihu:

Ezhiokwu? Where did you carryout this research? I've not come across that before.

The popularity of Onicha axis Igbo will make that possible to happen. You can't intentionally speak a dialect nobody will understand when you clearly have a choice to switch. You might wanna ask what popularity than I would refer you to old Catholics literatures that spread the Onicha axis Igbo to all parts of Igbo land.

NRIPRIEST:
I don't really care about what is spoken in Sountern Igbo land because I am not from there,yet I wouldn't like a situation whereby Anambra dialect is being corrupted by the influence of Igbo Izugbe or whatever the crap they call it. I know the structure of Igbo Izugbe is based on the Onicha/Idenmili axis but the pronunciation of the words represents what is spoken in southern Igbo land. And that is very dangerous!

But Anambra is a 20 years old state that's diverse itself, do you mean Onitsha?

Ihuomadinihu:
Ozuola nu. At the end of the day,nobody is adopting Onitsha igbo as the standard igbo izugbe. And nobody is adopting SCI in Onitsha as a standard dialect unless you want to learn and facilitate a conversation.
@Op you no try for this suggestion at all.

I'm not suggesting anything.

Chiwude:
@Ihuomadinihu, all what you've highlighted are in tune with my thoughts. Ya ga zie gi .
@Chinenye, hope you were bluffing when you typed these lines:
Please do not confuse Onitsha-Igbo to Igbo-Izugbe (Standard Igbo). Are you a Catholic if I may ask? If you're not then sorry this area isn't your area of authority. As one who was born a Catholic and who have had the privilege of worshiping in various diocese in Orlu, Okigwe, Umuahia and Owerri eclessiatical province I can authoritatively tell you that we do not conduct mass in Onitsha-Igbo. We conduct all church activities in Central Igbo. You can go and verify if you want. Take the samples below for instance.
Onitsha-Igbo says Na afa nna
We say Na aha nna
Second
Onitsha-Igbo says Ekene dili Osebuluwa, onye nyelu umu odibo ya ama m Ife, Udo na oganiru na ogonogo ndu. Ekpele na alilio anyi bu, ka Ife...
In Orlu diocese we say Ekele diri Oseburuwa, onye nyere umu odibo ya ama m Ihe, Udo na oganihu na ogologo ndu. Ekpere na aririo anyi bu, ka Ihe...
Note the difference. Unless you meant to talk about the syntax or something else

you are being economical with the truth if you say that,remember it was Onichans who spread catholism to many part of igboland,igbo catholic readings have starting changing of recent but if indeed you are a catholic you cant tell you havent heard something like ''riobara anyi aririo kita na mgbe onwu anyi''
kita is an onicha/anambra word for Now

btw we dont say alilio but Ayiyo,you know the name ANAYO

^Pls don't get into my mentions! I don't have the time to argue with a crazy supremacist.

Chiwude:
@Ihuomadinihu, all what you've highlighted are in tune with my thoughts. Ya ga zie gi .
@Chinenye, hope you were bluffing when you typed these lines:
Please do not confuse Onitsha-Igbo to Igbo-Izugbe (Standard Igbo). Are you a Catholic if I may ask? If you're not then sorry this area isn't your area of authority. As one who was born a Catholic and who have had the privilege of worshiping in various diocese in Orlu, Okigwe, Umuahia and Owerri eclessiatical province I can authoritatively tell you that we do not conduct mass in Onitsha-Igbo. We conduct all church activities in Central Igbo. You can go and verify if you want. Take the samples below for instance.
Onitsha-Igbo says Na afa nna
We say Na aha nna
Second
Onitsha-Igbo says Ekene dili Osebuluwa, onye nyelu umu odibo ya ama m Ife, Udo na oganiru na ogonogo ndu. Ekpele na alilio anyi bu, ka Ife...
In Orlu diocese we say Ekele diri Oseburuwa, onye nyere umu odibo ya ama m Ihe, Udo na oganihu na ogologo ndu. Ekpere na aririo anyi bu, ka Ihe...
Note the difference. Unless you meant to talk about the syntax or something else

Bro, my background is Catholic. What he told you is nothing but the truth. Onitsha Igbo was the liturgical dialect of the church, until the 80s and 90s, when it began to shift to correspond to Izugbe. Pick up an Igbo Catholic prayer book or hymn book from the 70s or so, and note the Igbo variety it is written in. Even at present the influence of Onitsha is still clearly marked on Catholic Liturgy Igbo, despite this shift.

Do you say ' I di ngozi n'etiti umu nwanyi niine/niile' or 'I di ngozi n'etiti ikporo niile/niine' when you say the 'Hail Mary' in your parish at Orlu?

Do you say, 'ka mkpuru obi ya zuru ike n'udo' or is it 'ka mkpuru obi ya zuru ike na ndokwa'?

Do you say, 'na awaghari n'ime ohia' or is it 'na awaghari n'ugboko', when you say the Catena?

And Oseburuwa is not Orlu. Hard as it may be to accept, it is a local adaptation of Osebuluwa from the Onitsha-axis.

ezeagu:
If somebody from Agbor and Aro spoke to each other, they usually use Onitsha Igbo.

Let me understand, are you using 'Onitsha' as a general term for 'northernizing' one's speech? i.e. consciously switching from /h/ to /f/, as an example? If that's the case, then I can understand this statement. I've seen this happen, but it typically happens when /h/-speakers communicate with /f/-speakers and almost never when /h/-speakers communicate with /h/-speakers. In fact most /h/-speakers will tell you that they feel as though they have to go out of their way for /f/-speakers for two reasons:
1) /f/-speech is practically the only thing /f/-speakers have any real familiarity with.
2) /f/-speakers pretty much never go of their way to switch for /h/-speakers.

The general consensus is that most /f/-speakers would be lost when interacting with /h/-speakers. So, for the sake of intelligibility and to cut down time, /h/-speakers will go out of their way for /f/-speakers. However, in literary communication, that is not the case. Izugbe or Central becomes the mode of speech by which /h/-speakers communicate with /f/-speakers, and you will rarely ever see an /h/-speaker make that switch from /h/ to /f/, unless out of some courtesy or playfully.

ezeagu:


It's either that or pidgin, some minority may know Igbo Izugbe or something like it.

It's never that. Both will use a central Igbo izugbe that waters down their respective igbo dialects.

Chiwude:
In places like Ideato North and Orsu you hear words like Oliseburuwa and Oseburuwa. When you come to Orlu/ Isu it becomes: Oriseburuwa and Oseburuwa.
Note the difference in Olisa, Orisa and Osa.

I asked about Orlu for a specific reason because I know for sure some part of Anambra that borders Orlu didn't use "Olisa",prior to the coming of Europeans. So,Olisa is foreign to Orlu and the Ideator or Orsu that you quickly pointed out were influenced by Ogbaru people.

ChinenyeN:

Let me understand, are you using 'Onitsha' as a general term for 'northernizing' one's speech? i.e. consciously switching from /h/ to /f/, as an example? If that's the case, then I can understand this statement. I've seen this happen, but it typically happens when /h/-speakers communicate with /f/-speakers and almost never when /h/-speakers communicate with /h/-speakers. In fact most /h/-speakers will tell you that they feel as though they have to go out of their way for /f/-speakers, because that is practically the only thing /f/-speakers have any real familiarity with and most /f/-speakers also will not go out of their way for /h/-speakers.

The general consensus is that most /f/-speakers would be lost when interacting with /h/-speakers. So, for the sake of intelligibility and to cut down time, /h/-speakers will go out of their way for /f/-speakers. However, in literary communication, that is not the case. Izugbe or Central becomes the mode of speech by which /h/-speakers communicate with /f/-speakers, and you will rarely ever see an /h/-speaker make that switch from /h/ to /f/, unless out of some courtesy or playfully.

@Ezeagu this is what i'm trying to explain. I interact with Onitsha igbo speakers on daily basis and we all maintain our izugbes during conversations.
Stop giving out a false and unfounded impression on this thread.

Ihuomadinihu:
^Pls don't get into my mentions! I don't have the time to argue with a crazy supremacist.

When you want to keep your privacy quit nairaland.

ezeagu:


But Anambra is a 20 years old state that's diverse itself, do you mean Onitsha?

It has long been established you are a wise man.

oboy3:

you are being economical with the truth if you say that,remember it was Onichans who spread catholism to many part of igboland,igbo catholic readings have starting changing of recent but if indeed you are a catholic you cant tell you havent heard something like ''riobara anyi aririo kita na mgbe onwu anyi''
kita is an onicha/anambra word for Now

btw we dont say alilio but Ayiyo,you know the name ANAYO

There is nothing like Anambra word. There are different lects in Anambra. I've listened to Nnewi, Ihiala, Orumba people and their dialects are close to what is spoken in Imo.

ChinenyeN:

Let me understand, are you using 'Onitsha' as a general term for 'northernizing' one's speech? i.e. consciously switching from /h/ to /f/, as an example? If that's the case, then I can understand this statement. I've seen this happen, but it typically happens when /h/-speakers communicate with /f/-speakers and almost never when /h/-speakers communicate with /h/-speakers. In fact most /h/-speakers will tell you that they feel as though they have to go out of their way for /f/-speakers for two reasons:
1) /f/-speech is practically the only thing /f/-speakers have any real familiarity with.
2) /f/-speakers pretty much never go of their way to switch for /h/-speakers.
The general consensus is that most /f/-speakers would be lost when interacting with /h/-speakers. So, for the sake of intelligibility and to cut down time, /h/-speakers will go out of their way for /f/-speakers. However, in literary communication, that is not the case. Izugbe or Central becomes the mode of speech by which /h/-speakers communicate with /f/-speakers, and you will rarely ever see an /h/-speaker make that switch from /h/ to /f/, unless out of some courtesy or playfully.

Kind of, I wouldn't say 'northern' because Northern includes Nsukka, Anam, and so on and those dialects are nothing like Onitsha. I use Onitsha as a general term for Onitsha Igbo and the environs. Let me be even franker, there are people who deliberately change their dialects to sound more like Onitsha Igbo even if they are speaking to their own people who speak a different dialect, even if it's a small minority. But I would say that it is true that people who use 'h' tweak their accents more for people who speak 'f'.

Ihuomadinihu:

It's never that. Both will use a central Igbo izugbe that waters down their respective igbo dialects.

People in places like Agbor interact more with people who speak dialects like Onitsha including Aniocha people who are basically the same as Onitsha people. They don't really have the access to Igbo Izugbe like other places mostly over the Niger, what they and outsiders learn is the Onitsha Igbo or similar. You can't water down some dialects enough to fit Izugbe.

Some people in some communities in so called southern Igboland are surprised when people born outside of their region speak the dialect.

Ihuomadinihu:

@Ezeagu this is what i'm trying to explain. I interact with Onitsha igbo speakers on daily basis and we all maintain our izugbes during conversations.
Stop giving out a false and unfounded impression on this thread.

It's not really false, I haven't heard any film that was made in Igbo Izugbe for example, I've seen actors who are form Imo State, for example, use an Onitsha dialect even if they struggle with it.

By the way, isn't Osebuluwa and Osenobua from the Anioma Western Igbos that live close to the Benin people?

And I would say there are also people who find it annoying when people in their community start forming Onitsha as well.

ezeagu:


Kind of, I wouldn't say 'northern' because Northern includes Nsukka, Anam, and so on and those dialects are nothing like Onitsha. I use Onitsha as a general term for Onitsha Igbo and the environs. Let me be even franker, there are people who deliberately change their dialects to sound more like Onitsha Igbo even if they are speaking to their own people who speak a different dialect, even if it's a small minority. But I would say that it is true that people who use 'h' tweak their accents more for people who speak 'f'.



People in places like Agbor interact more with people who speak dialects like Onitsha including Aniocha people who are basically the same as Onitsha people. They don't really have the access to Igbo Izugbe like other places mostly over the Niger, what they and outsiders learn is the Onitsha Igbo or similar. You can't water down some dialects enough to fit Izugbe.

Some people are even surprised when people in some communities in so called southern Igboland when people born outside of their region speak the dialect.



It's not really false, I haven't heard any film that was made in Igbo Izugbe for example, I've seen actors who are form Imo State, for example, use an Onitsha dialect even if they struggle with it.

You can't just wake up one morning and start speaking Onitsha igbo. We have already discussed about the place and importance of Onitsha in Igbo history,i wouldn't go back to that.
Pls list the Imo actors that speak onitsha igbo in movies.

Well,yes you can incoporate some dialects to fit into igbo izugbo and central igbo dialects.