dolphinheart:


The angel told mary who she was going to give birth to, he will be called " gods son " I read and did not read "god the son" .

I recall that jesus specifically asked peter who he thinks he is, and peter answered him with "son of god ".
I read that jesus told mary , I have not yet ascended to my god and ur god. Some say jesus is god, but jesus says he has a god.

I have read about who jesus called "the only true god" and I did not see the holy spirit or jesus mentioned there.

Have u read john 1:1 nd have u read the book of Revelation nd have u read paul epistles or in other words have u read the entire bible specifically the NT before u came to the conclusion that the bible doesn't teach that the Word is God.

"But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good"(1 Thessalonians 5:21)

dolphinheart:
Sometimes I find it hard to understand why you are quick to jump into conclusions concerning me. I asked you simple questions concerning the promise you said I made. You did not answer on that one.

I made simple, honest remark as to the supposed promise, if its true that I made such promise, let me see it! , I will apologise for my mistakes and try to make amends. I'm not perfect .

These simple request I make and you decided to accuse me!
This is not a fight where we will be looking for a winner, dnt try to bring me down, let's use the scriptures to discuss.

Wonderful, so you think I'm accusing you!
But the point I'm raising here is cleared, it means you only type and type without key in into what you said.

Anyway I don't have time to search for that but if you're truly key in to whatever you type, you suppose to remember immediately I said it.

Bro, are we here to discuss what an organization says or our beliefs concerning trinity,

Both! Simply because it's the same organization's doctrine you're following and even using their Bible version.

using the scriptures as main guide.

So how English Bible versions do you accept their TOTAL TRANSLATION apart from NWT? And you're claiming to be using scripture as main guide.

Tell me ur view on trinity and ill tell you mine, and we will use the scripture as guide.

This is where the problem lies, how can you prove Trinity from NWT when it has corrupted the true meaning of it? According to the Greek scripture The Father is God, The Son is God and The Holyspirit is God that is the testimony of Greek scripture.

If you have issues with any organization, get in touch with them! Not me. They have an address, a location where all ur issues can be pursued by you and addressed.

Like I always say I don't have problem with any organization but with the kingdom of darkness that hold the truth in lies.
You own is to prove me wrong here that you're not following the doctrine and using their Bible.

As to the booklet, I've not read it!

I've given you the link so you can do that mind you, there's no comment by anybody against the booklet on that same page just the scan of the booklet.

But pls tell, has the authors of the book changed their views on trinity?

They haven't but an author who can lie in his/her writing and withhold vital information from his/her reader, shouldn't be taken serious and shows the source of his/her inspiration because God can't lie or inspire lie.

Why don't they publish the book any longer?

This is why you need to read the booklet and see for yourself how they lied about early Christian teachers and misinformed the readers on Trinity believe.

It was as a result of people commentary on the booklet that made them to stop the publication and the removal from their online library.

If the booklet actually speaks the mind of God, why the removal and end of publication?

I brought the issue here because this thread is about Trinity.

I know you'll reply this post but I won't reply you until you tell me you've read it, so that we can start properly.

Richirich713:


Have u read john 1:1 nd have u read the book of Revelation nd have u read paul epistles or in other words have u read the entire bible specifically the NT before u came to the conclusion that the bible doesn't teach that the Word is God.

"But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good"(1 Thessalonians 5:21)

I've read them, it does not falsify , prove wrong or change what I read as posted by me.

Emusan:


Wonderful, so you think I'm accusing you!
But the point I'm raising here is cleared, it means you only type and type without key in into what you said.

You said " it means you are not a man of your words". I dnt know what else to call that if its not an accusation.

Anyway I don't have time to search for that but if you're truly key in to whatever you type, you suppose to remember immediately I said it.

I'm imperfect Bro, I dnt remember!

Both! Simply because it's the same organization's doctrine you're following and even using their Bible version.

On these thread we are discussing the trinity. Ill discuss it with you using the scriptures as a guide. If you have issues with what the an organization says, take it up with them, they are not hiding.

So how English Bible versions do you accept their TOTAL TRANSLATION apart from NWT? And you're claiming to be using scripture as main guide.

It does not concern you which translation I use when we discuss trinity , what should concern you is if the scripture I quoted is right or wrong and if the translation fits the original language as best as possible.
And pls wait till I use a translation before you start bringing up issues with the translation I use. If I quote a translation and you feel that the text I quoted is wrong, you are free to tell me its wrong.

This is where the problem lies, how can you prove Trinity from NWT when it has corrupted the true meaning of it? According to the Greek scripture The Father is God, The Son is God and The Holyspirit is God that is the testimony of Greek scripture.

Tell me ur view about trinity and ill tell you mine, and we will use the scripture as guide . If we have misunderstandings on scripture translations, we can both give our reasons why the translationyou or i quoted best translates the original words and why it is currupted or not currupted.

According to the scriptures the son has a God!.

Like I always say I don't have problem with any organization but with the kingdom of darkness that hold the truth in lies.
You own is to prove me wrong here that you're not following the doctrine and using their Bible.

On this thread, my own is to discuss trinity .

I've given you the link so you can do that mind you, there's no comment by anybody against the booklet on that same page just the scan of the booklet.



They haven't but an author who can lie in his/her writing and withhold vital information from his/her reader, shouldn't be taken serious and shows the source of his/her inspiration because God can't lie or inspire lie.

Get in touch with the author and air ur complaints.

This is why you need to read the booklet and see for yourself how they lied about early Christian teachers and misinformed the readers on Trinity believe.

My view on trinity is based on the scriptures. Let's use it in our discussion .

It was as a result of people commentary on the booklet that made them to stop the publication and the removal from their online library.

If the booklet actually speaks the mind of God, why the removal and end of publication?

I brought the issue here because this thread is about Trinity.

I know you'll reply this post but I won't reply you until you tell me you've read it, so that we can start properly.

Good, now that you know why they stopped publishing the book , can we move on an discuss the doctrine of trinity?
Of course ill reply you, that knowledge is not hard to decipher .
We are not here to discuss the book, we are here to discuss trinity!.

@dolphinheart

I've read it now?

Like I said the booklet has a lot to do with the issue at hand, that's why I want you to read it because by the time I start making reference to it, it won't be strange to you.

My view on Trinity is the general view held by all true Christian in the world.

There's ONLY ONE TRUE GOD which scripture reveals in the person of The Father, The Son and The Holy spirit.

So I'll reply your post when you're ready.

I just need Yes or No!

Less I forget, mention the scripture you're going to use for me I will use any of this KJV, NIV, NASB, YLT, NLT, CJB, ESV, NKJV, ERV, EXB, GW, ISV, PHILIP, TLB, NIRV, NLV, OJB

plappville:

Bro thank s for your response. But this type of subject has been treated here in NL times without numbers. You have quoted verses didn't say anything about the trinity. The bible made us to know that Jesus came from Above. His devine nature is not my argument but that He Jesus is Yahweh The Almighty according to the trinity. Jesus himself told us in several verses that He has a "GOD" he also told us the word he says are not his. We know that It is only through Him we can be saved because He made it clear. ( I am the way the truth and the life for no man cometh unto the father but by me.) I don't really want to go into posting verses here. It will looks like repeating same things over and over again. If the Trinity was a doctrine of Jesus, them he would have made it known by teaching it. Jesus never introduced such doctrine. We know when this came to the church and by who it came. If God puts His word in Jesus mouth it means when he says I am the Alpha and the Omega. It is God who is speaking through Him.

Don't forget that at the end of everything, Jesus will hand over everything to the Father. How are they thesame?

Alright, let's clarify thoughts this way (some are questions while others are points you may choose to refute or endorse):

1. Was Jesus right when He said, before Abraham was I am"?

2. Jesus spoke about a Glory He had with the Father before the World was and in a latter verse (john 17:10) said, " all Mine are Thine and Thine are Mine" meaning There is a Distinctness and at the same time a Oneness. Pls this does not suggest a Duo; here Jesus was praying to the Father, not teaching/preaching. He gives us the full picture in Matthew 28:19.

3. Paul the Apostle described the Incarnation of Christ that HE:
6 who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it]; 7 but emptied Himself [without renouncing or diminishing His deity, but only temporarily giving up the outward expression of divine equality and His rightful dignity] by assuming the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men [He became completely human but was without sin, being fully God and fully man].
Phil. 2:6-8 (AMP)
Since this is so, I wont be surprised if His earthly life contained events such as weariness, hunger as well as speech such as WE Worship, My God etc

4. God put His Word in Jesus' Mouth etc was the pattern after His incarnation meaning He showed us what is the real order of living - God (Christ) in us, the hope of Glory- He showed us how to use the mortal body in relation to God and Eternity. This was the pattern He gave us hence Paul was able to say that God called him to, "reveal His Son in me" Galatians 1:16. The corollary? He was our example and thus we see the essence of all christian experiences: God dweling in and living in and through us (see 2 Corinthians 6:16)- living inspired lives!

5. Endeavour to differentiate the Pre-Incarnate Christ, the Incarnated Christ and the Resurrected Christ and the Words spoken at different times at the Revelation of each!

6. Your reference to Christ handing over all to the Father should be considered in the Light of that statement by Christ:
John 17:11
New International Version
All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.


and a re-iteration in John 16:15

New International Version
All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you."

P.S.
May I appeal that those pictures be re-considered; there are mysteries in the Bible that the full picture (we know in part 1 Corinth 13:12) can only be appreciated on the other side. Making caricature pictures now is similar to the mistake made in Romans 1:23
23 and exchanged the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God for [f]an image [worthless idols] in the shape of mortal man.."

Same applies to he that think the Divine Nature must be explicable by the miserable inventions/discoveries of finite man - mathematics/physics!!!

Emusan:
@dolphinheart

I've read it now?

Like I said the booklet has a lot to do with the issue at hand, that's why I want you to read it because by the time I start making reference to it, it won't be strange to you.

My view on Trinity is the general view held by all true Christian in the world.

There's ONLY ONE TRUE GOD which scripture reveals in the person of The Father, The Son and The Holy spirit.

So I'll reply your post when you're ready.

I just need Yes or No!

Less I forget, mention the scripture you're going to use for me I will use any of this KJV, NIV, NASB, YLT, NLT, CJB, ESV, NKJV, ERV, EXB, GW, ISV, PHILIP, TLB, NIRV, NLV, OJB

Be honest , who did Jesus identify as the " ONLY TRUE GOD" ?

Emusan:
@dolphinheart

I've read it now?

If that question is for me, the answer is no.

Like I said the booklet has a lot to do with the issue at hand, that's why I want you to read it because by the time I start making reference to it, it won't be strange to you.

If you feel the booklet helps you, use it. As long as it helps you to explain ur view of trinity or it counters my own post on my view of trinity.

My view on Trinity is the general view held by all true Christian in the world.[quote]
My view on trinity is based on the one held by the scriptures.
The term "all true christians" has different meaning to different people.

[quote]There's ONLY ONE TRUE GOD which scripture reveals in the person of The Father, The Son and The Holy spirit.

There is only one true god, which jesus reveals to be person of the father!

So I'll reply your post when you're ready.

I just need Yes or No!

Less I forget, mention the scripture you're going to use for me I will use any of this KJV, NIV, NASB, YLT, NLT, CJB, ESV, NKJV, ERV, EXB, GW, ISV, PHILIP, TLB, NIRV, NLV, OJB

I will not mention any scripture, ones I use them and you feel the verse I quoted is a wrong translation, feel free to raise ur objections .

plappville:

Bro thank s for your response. But this type of subject has been treated here in NL times without numbers. You have quoted verses didn't say anything about the trinity. The bible made us to know that Jesus came from Above. His devine nature is not my argument but that He Jesus is Yahweh The Almighty according to the trinity. Jesus himself told us in several verses that He has a "GOD" he also told us the word he says are not his. We know that It is only through Him we can be saved because He made it clear. ( I am the way the truth and the life for no man cometh unto the father but by me.) I don't really want to go into posting verses here. It will looks like repeating same things over and over again. If the Trinity was a doctrine of Jesus, them he would have made it known by teaching it. Jesus never introduced such doctrine. We know when this came to the church and by who it came. If God puts His word in Jesus mouth it means when he says I am the Alpha and the Omega. It is God who is speaking through Him.

Don't forget that at the end of everything, Jesus will hand over everything to the Father. How are they thesame?

Sweet

Yahweh is Jesus's saviour and God....which makes Him the saviour and God over all...so there cant be co-equality between father and son.

HaShalom aleikhem!

Emusan:
@dolphinheart

I've read it now?

Like I said the booklet has a lot to do with the issue at hand, that's why I want you to read it because by the time I start making reference to it, it won't be strange to you.

My view on Trinity is the general view held by all true Christian in the world.

There's ONLY ONE TRUE GOD which scripture reveals in the person of The Father, The Son and The Holy spirit.

So I'll reply your post when you're ready.

I just need Yes or No!

Less I forget, mention the scripture you're going to use for me I will use any of this KJV, NIV, NASB, YLT, NLT, CJB, ESV, NKJV, ERV, EXB, GW, ISV, PHILIP, TLB, NIRV, NLV, OJB

My question is : If the bolded statement refer to three (3) persons , how can you use the word "ONLY" which refer to a sole person to describe 3 persons ?

The bible did not teach about the trinity..

Due.6:4 Hear O israel the lord our God the lord is one

Jessicha:


My question is : If the bolded statement refer to three (3) persons , how can you use the word "ONLY" which refer to a sole person to describe 3 persons ?

You supposed to add ONE to it.

dolphinheart:

If that question is for me, the answer is no.


If you feel the booklet helps you, use it. As long as it helps you to explain ur view of trinity or it counters my own post on my view of trinity.

Shalom then!

Jozzy4:


Be honest , who did Jesus identify as the " ONLY TRUE GOD" ?

Are you honest with yourself?

Emusan:

You supposed to add ONE to it.

Eeyah, na wa o Ok , how dare you use ONLY one to qualify three persons ?

Jessicha:

Eeyah, na wa o
Ok , how dare you use ONLY one to qualify three persons ?

Very simple! The Three make up the ONLY ONE just as a husband, wife and child(children) make up ONLY ONE Family yet they are all distinct persons.

Is it cleared?

Emusan:


Very simple! The Three make up the ONLY ONE just as a husband, wife and child(children) make up ONLY ONE Family yet they are all distinct persons.

Is it cleared?

The husband is not family, he is a member of the family .
The wife is not family, she is a member of that family.
The child is not family, he/she is a member of that family.
Each has a role and position that is different from the other.
They are not equal.
They are all humans, but have different authority in the family.
The family is not neccesarily made up by 3 individuals, it starts from 2 to as many as possible individuals.
the use of family does not support trinity!.

Emusan:


Very simple! The Three make up the ONLY ONE just as a husband, wife and child(children) make up ONLY ONE Family yet they are all distinct persons.

Is it cleared?

In a family each person is not family , but according to trinity doctrine . " Each person is God " and not a part of God .

O ma se o , since each of the Three is God , how can they make up ONLY One God ?

Jessicha:


In a family each person is not family , but according to trinity doctrine . " Each person is God " and not a part of God .

O ma se o , since each of the Three is God , how can they make up ONLY One God ?

Cry me a river!

I'm not using Family to prove Trinity but what you emphasized on which is "ONLY ONE." I simply show you how ONLY ONE can be used for more than one person.

Sorry, try again!

dolphinheart:


The husband is not family, he is a member of the family .
The wife is not family, she is a member of that family.
The child is not family, he/she is a member of that family.
Each has a role and position that is different from the other.
They are not equal.
They are all humans, but have different authority in the family.
The family is not neccesarily made up by 3 individuals, it starts from 2 to as many as possible individuals.
the use of family does not support trinity!.

Go and read your Trinity booklet after that you can quote me on this thread if not never attempt to quote me again.

Emusan:



Cry me a river!

I'm not using Family to prove Trinity but what you emphasized on which is "ONLY ONE." I simply show you how ONLY ONE can be used for more than one person.

Sorry, try again!

ONLY one what exactly ? can be used for more than one person .

Only one person = a sole person Not three persons in one .

Only one family = a single family not three families in one

You need more basic english lessons .

Sorry no vex, just wanted to tell you that ur use of family shows trinity to be false!

Emusan:


Very simple! The Three make up the ONLY ONE just as a husband, wife and child(children) make up ONLY ONE Family yet they are all distinct persons.

Is it cleared?

The usage of the word " ONLY one" is focused on the noun , not the twist nd turn you are doing here , the noun is "family" .

If i should ask you : how many families constitute Only One Family ?

Fight! Fight!! Fight!!!














Deluded f00ls

Emusan:

Are you honest with yourself?

Answer me , Who did Jesus identify as the ONly true God ?

Jozzy4:

Answer me , Who did Jesus identify as the ONly true God ?

The Creator of heaven and earth!

Scholar8200:


Alright, let's clarify thoughts this way (some are questions while others are points you may choose to refute or endorse):

1. Was Jesus right when He said, before Abraham was I am"?

Yes.

2. Jesus spoke about a Glory He had with the Father before the World was and in a latter verse (john 17:10) said, "   all Mine are Thine and Thine are Mine" meaning There is a Distinctness and at the same time a Oneness. Pls this does not suggest a Duo; here Jesus was praying to the Father, not teaching/preaching. He gives us the full picture in Matthew 28:19.

Look at Husband and wife in this picture.  They share everything in common but they are separate beings.  Yet the bible told us they are one flesh. Does thst make them one person Husband and wife share things in common.  They are one. But seperate beings.

3. Paul the Apostle described the Incarnation of Christ that HE:
 6 who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it]; 7 but emptied Himself [without renouncing or diminishing His deity, but only temporarily giving up the outward expression of divine equality and His rightful dignity] by assuming the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men [He became completely human but was without sin, being fully God and fully man].
Phil. 2:6-8 (AMP)
Since this is so, I wont be surprised if His earthly life contained events such as weariness, hunger as well as speech such as WE Worship, My God etc

Take a look at : Exodus 23:20-21

20 Behold, I send an Angel before you, to keep you in the way, and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. 22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

An angel has the power to forgive? And Has Go's name in Him Waoh, now Take note of: {{ But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak}} (the angels voice and God speaks)
Lets see who this angel is according to the NT.

 
1 Corinthians 10:1-6 take note of verse (4)

2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [b] 4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that [size=14pt] Rock was Christ. [/size] [/b]5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

The angel that followed the Israelites in the wilderness, He bears GOD'S name, He will not forgive if they provoked him. They must listen to His voice. Paul told us This angel was Christ. Do you agree with Paul here? [

Scholar8200:

5. Endeavour to differentiate the Pre-Incarnate Christ, the Incarnated Christ and the Resurrected Christ and the Words spoken at different times at the Revelation of each!

6. Your reference to Christ handing over all to the Father should be considered in the Light of that statement by Christ:
John 17:11
New International Version
All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.


and a re-iteration in John 16:15

New International Version
All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you."
[

Christ handling the Kingdom is enough to refute Trinitarian s that Chriat is not the Almighty God. Its a simple and clear verse. But human al2ays like to make things difficult. This same character the Pharisees displayed but Jesus rebuked them. They made the sabbath a big bone in the throat. But Jesus came and told them they were over doing it. Same this we see in the church today. Why not let bible interprets itself.

P.S.
May I appeal that those pictures be re-considered; there are mysteries in the Bible that the full picture (we know in part 1 Corinth 13:12) can only be appreciated on the other side. Making caricature pictures now is similar to the mistake made in Romans 1:23
23 and exchanged the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God for [f]an image [worthless idols] in the shape of mortal man.."

Ok. Now you show me how you think/picture the trinity. How do you think they look? One head with three bodies or three heads with one body . Or are they seperate?

Same applies to he that think the Divine Nature must be explicable by the miserable inventions/discoveries of finite man - mathematics/physics!!!
God did not make His word complicating. You people find it difficult to display the clearly the trinity without cracking of the brain.

plappville:

Look at Husband and wife in this picture.  They share everything in common but they are separate beings.  Yet the bible told us they are one flesh. Does thst make them one person Husband and wife share things in common.  They are one. But seperate beings.

Thanks for the highlighted. However there is a deeper dimension as Christ describes in John 17:21a
that they all may be one; just as You, Father, are in Me and I in You,
John 17:21a

Take a look at : Exodus 23:20-21

20 Behold, I send an Angel before you, to keep you in the way, and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. 22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

An angel has the power to forgive? And Has Go's name in Him Waoh, now Take note of: {{ But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak}} (the angels voice and God speaks)
Lets see who this angel is according to the NT.

 
1 Corinthians 10:1-6 take note of verse (4)

2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [b] 4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that [size=14pt] Rock was Christ. [/size] [/b]5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

The angel that followed the Israelites in the wilderness, He bears the GOD'S name, He will not forgive if they provoked him. They must listen to His voice. Paul told us This angel was Christ. Do you agree with Paul here?

You see the word Angel (malak) basically means ambassador, king, angel, messenger, prophet, priest, teacher (Jesus was described as a Teacher come from God)
http://biblehub.com/strongs/hebrew/4397.htm

In Revelations 2 & 3, the angel of the churches was referring to the pastors/leaders over those churches! Not literal angels.

Hence its use does not always refer to the created angels meaning it will be wrong to assume that the manifestation of the Pre-incarnate Christ was that of an Angel that was created!

I am happy you quoted Paul who mentioned Rock (not an Angel as the created ones).

The use of the term Rock was another way of referring to God in the OT see:

For their rock is not like our Rock,
Even our enemies themselves judge this.
Deuteronomy 32:31

plappville:


Christ handling the Kingdom is enough to refute Trinitarian s that Chriat is not the Almighty God. Its a simple and clear verse. But human al2ays like to make things difficult. This same character the Pharisees displayed but Jesus rebuked them. They made the sabbath a big bone in the throat. But Jesus came and told them they were over doing it. Same this we see in the church today. Why not let bible interprets itself.

Sure those verses were from the Bible! Besides, its only good we consider a subject from all perspectives as far as the Word reveals!

As to making images and forms, I am unable!

dolphinheart:


The husband is not family, he is a member of the family .
The wife is not family, she is a member of that family.
The child is not family, he/she is a member of that family.
Each has a role and position that is different from the other.
They are not equal.
They are all humans, but have different authority in the family.
The family is not neccesarily made up by 3 individuals, it starts from 2 to as many as possible individuals.
the use of family does not support trinity!.

No it does not!