We’re removing disparity between HND, varsity degree’
By Oluwole Josiah, Abuja
Published: Wednesday, 13 May 2009
The [b]Minister of Education, Dr. Sam Egwu[b][/b][/i][i], has said that the Federal Government has begun the process of eliminating the discrimination against polytechnic graduates in the public service.

Minister of Education, Dr. Sam Egwu

He stated this during an interactive session between the ministry officials and the Senate Committee on Education on Tuesday.

According to him, the disparity was affecting staff moral and productivity within the service, noting that the government is concerned about it.

He said, “We are addressing the problem, because when a staff with HND does not earn the same recognition that his counterpart from the university earns, it creates problems.

“Right now, we have removed the barriers. By the time we present our overall blue print you will see how far we have gone.”

Chairman of the committee, Senator Joy Emordi, expressed satisfaction over the development, saying that her office had been inundated with petitions from Nigerians complaining about the adverse effects of the disparity.

But Senator Iyabo Obasanjo-Bello, a member of the committee, noted that polytechnics had created more problems by admitting too many students in the business courses while only a few were admitted into engineering.

According to her, the polytechnics have deviated from their initial mandate of focusing on technical courses.

Senator Omar Hambagdar, a former university lecturer, however, disagreed with Obasanjo-Bello, arguing that the initial design of the polytechnic system included both technical and business courses.
He said only polytechnics initially offered business courses and that it was only recently that universities in Nigeria started offering business courses.[/b]

we've been hearing this for decades, when will it come to pass? when will the government and society begin to see HND or poly graduates as relevant to the society?

david o:

We’re removing disparity between HND, varsity degree’
By Oluwole Josiah, Abuja
Published: Wednesday, 13 May 2009
The [b]Minister of Education, Dr. Sam Egwu[b][/b][/i][i], has said that the Federal Government has begun the process of eliminating the discrimination against polytechnic graduates in the public service.

Minister of Education, Dr. Sam Egwu

He stated this during an interactive session between the ministry officials and the Senate Committee on Education on Tuesday.

According to him, the disparity was affecting staff moral and productivity within the service, noting that the government is concerned about it.

He said, “We are addressing the problem, because when a staff with HND does not earn the same recognition that his counterpart from the university earns, it creates problems.

“Right now, we have removed the barriers. By the time we present our overall blue print you will see how far we have gone.”

Chairman of the committee, Senator Joy Emordi, expressed satisfaction over the development, saying that her office had been inundated with petitions from Nigerians complaining about the adverse effects of the disparity.

But Senator Iyabo Obasanjo-Bello, a member of the committee, noted that polytechnics had created more problems by admitting too many students in the business courses while only a few were admitted into engineering.

According to her, the polytechnics have deviated from their initial mandate of focusing on technical courses.

Senator Omar Hambagdar, a former university lecturer, however, disagreed with Obasanjo-Bello, arguing that [b]the initial design of the polytechnic system included both technical and business courses. [/b]He said only polytechnics initially offered business courses and that it was only recently that universities in Nigeria started offering business courses.[/b]

Oga Omar help me tell them o. i wonder why people especially nigerians always say that polytechnics have deviated from technical courses to business? As far as i know one of the reasons polytechnics were established was to train people technically in the field of science&technology as well as business for the government and industries.

Well, even though the poly deviated from science to more of business, it is not far-fetched. When you study engineering in poly, they say you are not an engineer but technologist until you do your masters before they call you an engineer, even when you are better than your fellow university graduate, they discriminate and put him ahead of you. Monkey they work baboo dey chop.

As far as Nigeria is concerned, our poly graduates are as dull/smart as their university graduates. maybe in Abroad, degree course work is more academic and research-based, why poly is more of industry-based. It does not make any one superior. it is just division of labour! but someone very dull from one university will claim to be superior engineer, when he can not supervise any physical projects.

An engineer who claims that he is trained to be more theoritical should have been a scientist and not an engineer. Engineering that i know has been defined in some cases as "application of scientific knowledge for the benefit of mankind". The word "application" must be there or else you have to be a scientist or simply a researcher.

It will be a welcome development, if Poly and Uni graduates are subject to the same exam before admission into professional bodies or promotion in the office. You will be amazed if not shocked to the marrow of the result you will get.

At a time, Uni graduates were lowest in passing ICAN exam while Poly graduates were on the top.

Knowledge is more important than anyhting in this case. Let us embrace knowledge and move the country forward instead of encouraging everyone to have degree when they know nothing. Thank God, i keep putting those boys were they belong when they come to work with me on Site on in the office on designs as graduates. Where do they belong? Training hall. Get the knowledge and come down to private sector.

After the date of interview, your certificate will stop work while your brain continues.

Tufiakwa!!

Me and poly graduate on the same level??

Utter rubbish. Why not just turn all polytechnics into universities at once.

Another classic case of misplaced priority. This will backfire o!! Poly grads are technicians, Uni grads are Engineers. Theres a difference.

@Okija

In the Ist place I'm not a poly grad and have no Nigerian degree.

I am talking about the necessity of poly. University was deficient in providing industrial manpower. They were producing engineering graduates who could only possibly do well by continuing with academics,that is becoming a lecturer or so. Then, poly needed to provide a more detailed practical and productive knowledge which is what a nation needs to produce.

You sounded like one of those deficient university graduate who never knew while poly was created and cannot just be converted to Uni as Uni has lacked enough for the poly to be created to fill the gap of production which we need.

In Nigeria, the academic system has actually not differentiated this. I can assure you that in your own field, you are not better than any poly graduate.

Do you want a naked dance In the second place, what level do you occupy? level of ignorance

Anwo _{or whatever you call yourself.}

You are nothing short of an educated slowpoke. Who gives a rats ass where you obtained your degree??! So what if you arent a Nigerian University grad!? After reading your post, a first school leaver will put up a better arguement than you.

Now let me school your dumbass. 

Nigerian Polytechnics are nothing short of technical institutes where vocational/technical skills are taught and learnt. Thats why university grads end up in offices and poly grads end up in the feild.

And the next time you decide to call someone names, be sure to come across as intelligible otherwise you end up making an ass of yourself. I would love to tell you how your parents wasted their hard earned money sending you to Chad to school, when you could have gotten a better education at Yaba Polytechnic, but then it would be a waste of time.

It is fools like you that make Diploma holders feel like they measure up to Bachelors degree holders. And what bloody makes you feel that cos you schooled outside the shores of Nigeria you are better than a Nigerian Graduate?? Idiota! 

@okija

The anger in your speech,though with a lot of difficulties in your trying to express it , shows nothing more than:

1 lack of exposure
2.Inability to make a critical examination of post and responding accordingly and
3 The need for better education, I'm sorry, I still need to say this because it is so glaring. honestly, you need a better education.

What I told you was that if Nigerian Poly were structured as conceived, uni graduates have no intuitive yardstick of comparison with poly graduates as to being inferior or superior. It is simply a division of labour, with one being more academic and research oriented with the other being more inclined toindustry and production.

Please read this very well before you respond. You do not need to be angry. Ability to read and understand will save you the adrenalin secretion causing you unnecessary high temperature. Who knows how you will be in exam hall.

First of all

Let me take you back to your posts Mr. schooled outside Nigeria.

anwo247:

Well, even though the poly deviated from science to more of business, it is not far-fetched. When you study engineering in poly, they say you are not an engineer but technologist _(grammar) until you do your masters before they call you an engineer, even when you are better than your fellow university graduate, they discriminate and put him ahead of you. Monkey they work baboo_(Spelling) dey chop.

Who is a technologist?? A technologist is a someone trained in a certain feild of technology who is responsible for applying the research, analysis and designs of his colleagues the scientist.

Now let me ask you "Mr. Foreign schooled", if there is no research, analysis or design, what then would the technologist apply? Have you ever wondered why courses like Medicine are not on offer in Nigerian Polytechnics?? Cos it is not a feild where you are taught how to tighten a bolt or fix a pipe. A Scientist has the ability to think wide and profer alternative solutions to a problem, a technician/technologist is able to think within a given boundary.
Note; Scientists research, Technologist apply our researches.

anwo247:

As far as Nigeria is concerned, our poly graduates are as dull/smart as their university graduates. maybe in Abroad, degree course work is more academic and research-based, why poly is more of industry-based. It does not make any one superior. it is just division of labour! but someone very dull from one university will claim to be superior engineer, when he can not supervise any physical projects.

Now I see why your reasoning is tending towards the left. Degree holders are not project supervisors. NO! They are rather Project planners, designers, analysts and researchers. Diploma Holders on the other hand are responsible for the development of the research of the Scientist. An architech  is like a scientist, while the site foreman is the Technologist.

I hope I havent lost you so far.

anwo247:

An engineer who claims that he is trained to be more theoritical should have been a scientist and not an engineer. Engineering that i know has been defined in some cases as "application of scientific knowledge for the benefit of mankind". The word "application" must be there or else you have to be a scientist or simply a researcher.

Point of correction you air-head, this is the definition of an Engineer.

An engineer is a skilled technical professional. Engineers are concerned with developing economical and safe solutions to practical problems, by applying mathematics and scientific knowledge while considering technical constraints. The term is derived from the Latin root "ingeniosus," meaning "skilled. The industrial revolution and continuing technological developments of the last few centuries have changed the connotation of the term slightly, resulting in the perception of engineers as applied scientists

I hope your perception has been corrected.

anwo247:

It will be a welcome development, if Poly and Uni graduates are subject to the same exam before admission into professional bodies or promotion in the office. You will be amazed if not shocked to the marrow of the result you will get.

I would respond to this after the shock. _{Utter rubbish.}

anwo247:

Knowledge is more important than anyhting in this case. Let us embrace knowledge

I think this is the only intelligible part in your entire post, and I would advice you to take your own advice cos so far you sound like an educated retard.

anwo247:

At a time, Uni graduates were lowest in passing ICAN exam while Poly graduates were on the top.

Stats please!! Stop throwing unfounded insinuations around.

anwo247:

@Okija

In the Ist place I'm not a poly grad and have no Nigerian degree.

I wonder if you have any degree or even a diploma from anywhere at all. Cos you have the reasoning of an imbecilic 15 year old.

anwo247:

I am talking about the necessity of poly. University was deficient in providing industrial manpower. They were producing engineering graduates who could only possibly do well by continuing with academics,that is becoming a lecturer or so. Then, poly needed to provide a more detailed practical and productive knowledge which is what a nation needs to produce.

This is another example of what I man when I say your post only reflects your stupidity. In all of your foriegn acquired wisdom, Bsc/BA holders are only good for lecturing?! ROFLMFAO    Not only are you stupid but also funny. You should have studied comedy in whatever polytechnic you attended.

Now the universities were not tasked with providing industrial manpower, they are tasked with reseacrh and development of old technologies. Polytechnics on the other hand were tasked with providing industrial labour. Thats why if you notice, Polytechnics offer more vocational and hands-on courses like sewing, e.t.c.

anwo247:

You sounded like one of those deficient university graduate who never knew while poly was created _(Grammar) and cannot just be converted to Uni as Uni has lacked enough for the poly to be created _(Grammar) to fill the gap of production which we need.

Na you and your Poly sabi wetin you write here. Wow and I am supposed to be the defiecient one!! 

anwo247:

In Nigeria, the academic system has actually not differentiated this. I can assure you that in your own field, you are not better than any poly graduate.

The day you show me a Diploma holder in the feild of Geological Engineering, I will go apply for a diploma.

anwo247:

Do you want a naked dance In the second place, what level do you occupy? level of ignorance

IGNORANCE!!? Hmm!! O.k. But one thing I am certain of is that my ignorance contains more wisdom than your deepest and wisest tought, word or deed.

anwo247:

@okija

The anger in your speech,though with a lot of difficulties in your trying to express it , shows nothing more than:

1 lack of exposure
2.Inability to make a critical examination of post and responding accordingly and
3 The need for better education, I'm sorry, I still need to say this because it is so glaring. honestly, you need a better education.

1. Exposure?? After reading my response now between the pair of us, who sounds exposed?? Someone who thinks engineering is simply an applied science does that person sound exposed??

2. I taught I was talking to an intellectual with sound reasoning ability, hence my short and concise initial post. I never knew that you had a problem with comprehension.

3. Better education?? Nigga please. I just schooled you in the difference between a technician, a technologist, an artisan & an Engineer. I dont know where you schooled, but its either you were just too stupid to learn, or the school was one of the numerous unaccredited universities littered the world over.
I would suggest you go back to school. call it the quest for a second degree.

anwo247:

What I told you was that if Nigerian Poly were structured as conceived, uni graduates have no intuitive yardstick of comparison with poly graduates as to being inferior or superior. It is simply a division of labour, with one being more academic and research oriented with the other being more inclined toindustry and production.

So you knew this and yet you were spewing ignorance all this while. What a slowpoke.



Note: The highlighted portions marked in red are the evidences that show you are either a half-baked graduate or a half-trained Poly graduate. Dont ever call me out like this ever again in your life.
Right now a Nigerian polytechnic Grad is looking better than you.



ALL POLY GRADS, THIS POST IS NOT MEANT TO SPITE YOU AS WE WERE BOTH TRAINED TO FILL DIFFERENT ROLES IN THE SOCIETY. NO ONE IS SUPERIOR OR INFERIOR TO THE OTHER.

@Okija,

Unfortunately for you, I still do not see you as an intelligent fellow with all your contradictions and lack of understanding of my statements.

My happiness is that at last, you have apologized to the poly graduates when you eventually realized that you are all trained to occupy different positions and no one is superior or inferior. Very good one, brother.

Another name for that, is division of Labour. I know that was where you had the problem. It has exposed your great Bsc Knowledge when you do not know the meaning of Division of labour.

I guess they would accept your apology and boy, stop being proud and discriminatory. It's just another way down in life.

Good luck. Cheers.

It would be a waste of time argueing with you, so lets just disagree to agree.

Cheers, and more success to you.

For your information we just came back from stake holders meeting. If you have e-mail address I will seen the decision to you.

Take it or reject it HND is now treated as Degree same salary same Jamb and same promotion the circular will be signed at Akwa-Ibom this Oct.

This is a wrong, unnecessary action and it is diversionary. All over the world, there are grades of training and work assignments. Low, medium and high cadres. However, in Nigeria university degree is becoming minimum requirement due to underdevelopment. University is supposed to train design and high level personnel while polytechnic train technicians for running and maintenance. That is why poly puts a lot if emphasis on practical and the university on theory. In a developed society you don't have to get a university degree to survive, It is not everyone that likes or able to cope with high level education.

Having said that, what do you expect of a confused and no priority bunch running affair of the country.

Why the discrimination then on HND? May be I should let you know that Nigeria is the only country in Africa with HND.
Thank God HND is free.

@HND-holder, There is equivalence of HND in the US and UK. They are not employed for BSc jobs and BSc are not offered their jobs either.

The same thing it is the Bsc that is taking over our job. They put obstacle in our way

Why pegging HND holders progress? Even in the university and at the polytechnics, there is an institutional organ called the congregation or convokes, to be a member of the congregation, you should be a graduate of university (which is not a right of Polytechnics graduate) and by the interpretation of the graduate, and you have to be a degree holder. Because of that in the appointment of Bursars even with ICAN, or registrar of regulatory body, say the Engineering personnel had some Masters or PhD with HND they are still not good enough, still regarded as inferior, cannot be place in the position. It is worst if you have a member of NSE in the panel, he can still stomach the presence of a mechanic than HND technologist. Any polytechnic or institution that try to elevates the polytechnic graduate is no more qualified to be a member of the congregation.
The discriminations about the graduates of universities and polytechnics are is something that one has to sleep over day and night in Nigeria is it the same in USA?