Was feminism a [just] fad (short-lived fashion: something that is very popular but only for a short time)? Has the battle for equal rights been won? Is that why women have gone from burning their bras to buying push up ones?

Some women argue women can still be a feminist and wear pink fluffy slippers - oh and have sex with men. just where is feminism today?

All views welcome.

For some reason, most women are quite happy to be placed in the second position at home as long as they are well loved and cared for.

You forgot to add: "and as long as the man doesn't continuously remind them that they are in second position"!


As to gender equality, I'm still waiting for someone to explain what that means. I'm sure it's not to be taken literally, as I don't know of any woman who would want the ability to grow a full blown beard and moustache (like the one I'm sporting right now!).

Most women just don't like to discuss this issue. I wonder why?

One of d thingz i hate is some guyz trying to put down d role of d ladies. so yall r on top? congrats!!!!!! well i see a better future 4 Nigeria if d ladies r in position and not d guyz!!! don't get me started but we ladies still stand by our right. we don't need guyz to survive but yall need us. ever heard dat quote i don't really know how it goes but it's sumtin like beside every successful guy is a strong woman. if it's  just u guyz  in d world humans will have been no more by now.
@salako feminist didn't say ladies can't have sex with guyz it promotes ladies been able to enjoy d freedom of casual sex like guyz. feminist don't wanna be d guyz cuz dat will be too sad. they want equal rights.
Gender equality is both parties havin d same rights in everything such as employment opportunities, workplaces and so on. it doesn't mean dat d lady should physically change into a guy!!!!

Seun:

We men, thanks to our big and fragile egos, tend to be more determined to be on top, and that's why we will always remain on top.

we were talking about something related to this in my class 3 weeks ago.

we read this short essay (i forgot the title) that deals with gender population in Univerities.
in the past years (1960's i think) most college kids were male. then there was this feminist move to increase the number of enrollment for females to colleges. As time went by, more women did enroll to colleges and now, there are are more females in colleges than there are males.

( a woman earns just 76 cents for every dollar earned by the average American man. The figures are even bleaker for African American (66 cents) and Hispanic (55 cents) women.) these figures are improving and sonner or later, the figures will be about the same.


there is still feminism. just because you don't see propaganda, movements and whatnot doesn't mean it dissappeared.  they show up when the need arises, ( when there's a major discontent with the male gender sphere). these needs are also almost always influenced by a major event.
for example, in the 1780's (England and france) when philosoply, enlightenment were begining to take root and people were being enlightened in areas of scientific, social developments. some powerful women (daughters and wives of influential politicians e.t.c) saw the conditions women faced and wrote feminist works that called for education and enlighten ment for females. they also called for the right for females to work (only men worked. all women did was spin and weave at home adn take care of the house).

also, in the 1920's (almost 2 centuries later, in another setting, America), the first world war just ended and feminist movements called for enfranchisement. this was partly to recognize their contributions during the war, equality, and all other bunch of reasons.

now, i don't think there is any major conflict to incite demonstrations except maybe in Africa and other third world countries where female rights are significantly abused (especially durng wars where women are being raped and whatnot). these women are powerless in the face of men and can't really fight for themselves. Foreign powerful Feminists (OPRAH  is a big example) sometimes speak for their causes.

i feel terribly bad too when i hear how muslim females have to cover their faces when they walk outside. i see it as an abuse to individual human right. those women need to fight!.
i don't think women are property. who ever calls them that is a shameless ignorant slowpoke who needs to wake up from his sleep.

dat's wat i'm talking about? any body in da house still confused?!!! u go gurl!!!!

A woman that seeks to be like a man lacks ambition.

Oracle:

A woman that seeks to be like a man lacks ambition.

your post has nothing to do with the questions the original poster is asking. in case you're not bothered to read it, here is it again:

Was feminism a [just] fad (short-lived fashion: something that is very popular but only for a short time)? Has the battle for equal rights been won? Is that why women have gone from burning their bras to buying push up ones?

Some women argue women can still be a feminist and wear pink fluffy slippers - oh and have sex with men. just where is feminism today?

All views welcome.

But then, you might have misinterpreted the post.

It better be dat u really did read d question wrong. i'm gon reserve my comment 4 now!!!

Oracle:

A woman that seeks to be like a man lacks ambition.

ok ok i think i understand now

whatever.

i'm not trying to pick on u but wat exactlly do u think u understand? i mean could u like say how u understand it?

Oracle:

ok ok i think i understand now

Proud feminst here.

Seun:

There's no such thing as equality in life. Those who desire to be "on top" the most tend to get there and stay there. We men, thanks to our big and fragile egos, tend to be more determined to be on top, and that's why we will always remain on top. This state of affairs is not helped by the ladies' strong tendency to tear down there own kind and support the men.

This is projection, Seun, not necessary the way those women want it to be. I also think you're too much reasoning from the specific cultural context of Nigeria, this is certainly not universal

Seun:

Gender equality is not going to happen because it's a [i]solution in search of a problem [/i]that hardly exists. For some reason, most women are quite happy to be placed in the second position at home as long as they are well loved and cared for. And that is quite convenient, because men love to be on top and will not give up their "inheritance" without a fight!

Do you have any data to support this position, because it's certainly not my experience. Those men you describe should stop to act like children and enter in a relationship of equality. It's not because they like it a certain way and that some women tolerate this situation that this is the way things should be.

Something to think about:

There is a very strong correlation between the level of gender equality and the human development index. And it's not only prosperity driving equal gender rights. Experiments with micro credit in rural poor areas of the world has shown that where the loans were given to the women the result was much better than when the men were on the receiving end

[Again talking from my experience in Nigeria]

Nferyn, I feel you, but when I doscovered that I was more of a feminist than the women I was supposedly fighting for, I decided to quit. My justification: why should I fight for the women if they are not interested fighting for themselves or supporting those who are trying to fight for them?

Our women in Nigeria, especially in Yorubaland, are probably the most liberated women in Africa. They have been pulling their weight even before independence and they have been using their mouths to build up and tear down great men for decades. If sexual inequality is so bad, then why aren't our women campaigning for it?

There is something that women are enjoying from the unequal treatment; something that probably makes them live longer. They enjoy more security and the freedom to express their emotions. I mean, this type of woman bores me to death, but yet they tend to live so long, which makes me envy them a little.

nferyn:

Something to think about:

There is a very strong correlation between the level of gender equality and the human development index.

then i guess Nigeria would probably be better developed than it currently is if only women were given more rights.

Seun:

[Again talking from my experience in Nigeria]

My justification: why should I fight for the women if they are not interested fighting for themselves or supporting those who are trying to fight for them?

i personally believe that women in nigeria are being blocked from getting the message out.
they are being threatned. look at the woman in the north that was stoned to death for "adultery". that would never have happened to a man. If women fight for equality, they might be taken down by society as immoral. there was a thread like this on this forum i saw last month. the Original Poster mentioned something about feminists being unfaithful, disobedient, and used other derogatory comments on feminists. do you then think they will be tolerated or allowed to get their message out in a country like nigeria where recognition for females is quite low?

men hate feminists because they challenge the myth that "women are physically and intellectually unfitted for any useful activity outside the home"

just like men in the united state were reluctant to put an end to slavery because they want to feel a sense of superiority to blacks, i think men are reluctant to give or allow women equal rights for the same reason. they want to keep that feel of superiority.

look at the woman in the north that was stoned to death for "adultery". that would never have happened to a man.

No woman has been stoned for adultery yet - each time a woman is condemned to death for adultery under Sharia, her lawyer would appeal and win the appeal. However, some men have had their hands amputated for stealing, while others have been flogged publicly for various offences. Those women were charged for adultery because they got pregnant out of wedlock - they were not caught in the act and hence their lovers (the men) were not caught.

When there is a war, women get [sexually asaulted] while men get killed. Which is worse?

Seun:

No woman has been stoned for adultery yet - each time a woman is condemned to death for adultery under Sharia, her lawyer would appeal and win the appeal. However, some men have had their hands amputated for stealing, while others have been flogged publicly for various offences. Those women were charged for adultery because they got pregnant out of wedlock - they were not caught in the act and hence their lovers (the men) were not caught.

When there is a war, women get [sexually asaulted] while men get killed. Which is worse?

you seem to be fighting against femminism and not for it as you say you are

remember that woman that was about o be stoned to death until other International natios interferred and it was all over the news about misogyny in Nigeria?
why also is it that when any immorality issue comes up on nigerian forums, women recieve the majority of the accusations?.
while men that are even more guilty of these immorality themselves escape accusations.

women don't just get sexually assaulted in wars. their husbands and kids are shot to death sometimes and the women are left in emotional and economical trauma. they are also socially shunned as dirty and unclean women and treated by society inhumanely.

Seun:

[Again talking from my experience in Nigeria]

Nferyn, I feel you, but when I doscovered that I was more of a feminist than the women I was supposedly fighting for, I decided to quit. My justification: why should I fight for the women if they are not interested fighting for themselves or supporting those who are trying to fight for them?

Then that shows how important that is to you, Seun. Not enough for you to continue apparently. There will always be people that help at the continuation of their own submission. It's a type of mental slavery they need to get out of. These people lack the mental strength to get out of their predicament, that's why they need support more than ever. And if some scoff at you for that, it's a small price to pay: a slightly deflated ego. The big picture is too important to let something like that pass.

And all in all, nobody needs to fight. Stating your opinions and the reasons for having them clearly can do wonders, maybe not immediately, but if people start thinking about what you say, this can have a very beneficial long term effect.

Seun:

Our women in Nigeria, especially in Yorubaland, are probably the most liberated women in Africa. They have been pulling their weight even before independence and they have been using their mouths to build up and tear down great men for decades. If sexual inequality is so bad, then why aren't our women campaigning for it?

Again, this may be true in a Nigerian or African context, but that is certainly not sufficient. Would you think poverty is fine, just because your neighbours are starving?
Ask yourself these questions:
* do women receive equal education opportunities?
* do woman get equal pay for equal work?
* do [i]families [/i]offer women equal employment opportunities? (with this I mean: is child care shared among the partners, can the women continue their work after giving birth? ...)
* is the inheritance system gender neutral?
If you can answer these questions sort of positively, then you have a starting point as far as women's liberation is concerned. If not, talk about 'the most liberated women in Africa' is very empty

Seun:

There is something that women are enjoying from the unequal treatment; something that probably makes them live longer. They enjoy more security and the freedom to express their emotions. I mean, this type of woman bores me to death, but yet they tend to live so long, which makes me envy them a little.

Some probably do. Some do have a mental slavery attitude, but that can [b]never [/b]be a justification for the current status quo

There's an excellent blog on the position of women in Africa (and you've linked to it regularly), http://okrasoup.typepad.com/black_looks/

Try to get into the arguments, you will certainly learn a lot.

Seun:

No woman has been stoned for adultery yet - each time a woman is condemned to death for adultery under Sharia, her lawyer would appeal and win the appeal.

And that makes it right? The fact alone that these type of accusations and these type of sentences are even entertained is showing what the real position of women is in Nigeria. And maybe it's only in the north this happens, but where were all these courageous leaders from the south to fight against this travesty?

Seun:

However, some men have had their hands amputated for stealing, while others have been flogged publicly for various offences.

This obviously wouldn't happen or hasn't happened to women? What kind of comparison are you trying to make here?

Seun:

Those women were charged for adultery because they got pregnant out of wedlock - they were not caught in the act and hence their lovers (the men) were not caught.

Shows you indeed how gender neutral these laws are. It's rather easy to establish whether or not those men are the fathers. And they even admitted being the fathers. Why were there no charges?

Seun:

When there is a war, women get [sexually asaulted] while men get killed. Which is worse?

Do you really have to ask yourself this question? Try to continue your life as a woman after being raped in a male dominated society. They would probably prefer the faith of the men. And do you mean women do not get killed in war?

Try to continue your life as a woman after being raped in a male dominated society. They would probably prefer the faith of the men.

If surviving women in war-torn areas so badly wanted to die, they would simply commit suicide. Most rational human beings will choose life over death every time no matter how hard life is. All I'm saying is that in a war even very young and old men are forced unto the battlefield before anyone even dreams about sending women, so many more men die. In addition, in a male-dominated society, there seems to be much more societal outrage over the killing of a woman than the killing of a man.

Seun:

[SNIP]
In addition, in a male-dominated society, there seems to be much more societal outrage over the killing of a woman than the killing of a man.

<SARCASM type="bitter">
Except if it's as some sort of punishment for breaking the moral codes of said society, then they have no problem sentencing these women to death. Or maybe punishing their family by organising a gang rape of their youngest daughter like in Pakistan. After all she was not killed.
Maybe you should address the issues I raised instead of side stepping the discussion. This is just peripheral talk about who has got the biggest ....
</SARCASM>

Seun:

If surviving women in war-torn areas so badly wanted to die, they would simply commit suicide. Most rational human beings will choose life over death every time no matter how hard life is. All I'm saying is that in a war even very young and old men are forced unto the battlefield before anyone even dreams about sending women

One, old men cannot and aren't forced into the battle field and women aren't supposed to be either.
two, you think the idea of not sending women to battle fields is a a thing women should be thankful for men for (or at least that's what i'm assuming). well, in the united states, there are women in the army whether you like it or not and they perform their duties to the best of their abilities.
the main reason women can't and shouldn't be drafted is because they are the ones put in place to assume the role of house-keeping and child rearing in the first place. what becomes of infants and kids when both parents are drafted to war? they need nuturing don't you think?
Old men aren't fit for service so they aren't drafted for war.

Seun:

In addition, in a male-dominated society, there seems to be much more societal outrage over the killing of a woman than the killing of a man.

oh really? because i don't think so.
when there's an outrage in a male-dominated society over the killing of a woman, it usually comes from international and non-excessively male dominated nations.

and you can't compare the killing of a man an woman in Nigeria.
when a man is killed, it's usually for criminal acts like murder, armed theft e.t.c
when a woman is killed it's usually for adultery and that's a stupid act that truly does require an outrage.

This topic puts the average Nigerian woman to sleep. What exactly do feminists want, anyway?

Seun:

This topic puts the average Nigerian woman to sleep. What exactly do feminists want, anyway?

Simple: equal gender relations.
Will you address my questions or are they too uncomfortable to answer? Or maybe you have another reason for sidestepping the discussion?

Seun:

This topic puts the average Nigerian woman to sleep. What exactly do feminists want, anyway?

wat do u consider to be an average Nigerian woman? and how u know dat diz topic put them to sleep?
Wat do feminist want? simple EQUALITY!!!! they wanna be accepted at jobs cuz of their brains and talent and not wat they can offer the boss sexually. they wanna be consider as independent people who got their own carreres and not just someone to stay home and look after that babies. they don't want their talents undermined cuz of their gender. they wan be given da same rights men r given. Now dat mean we wanna be u guyz just want dat same right!!! they don't wannabe loked at as d inferior gender!!!!!

As for me, i nvr look at women in inferiority cos with no debate we have seen women with might and power but what do most women do whenever power is in thier hand. Sorry to say this they are proud.

elphem:

As for me, i nvr look at women in inferiority because with no debate we have seen women with might and power but what do most women do whenever power is in their hand. Sorry to say this they are proud.

Examples please

Let me give you one closest to you; check the head of offices around you and particularly VC and secondary school principals u will surely get what i'm envisaging.