Please read the following story slowly and meditatively ==>


For all his holiness, the Master seemed vaguely opposed to religion. This never ceased to puzzle the disciples who, unlike the Master, equated religion with spirituality.

“Religion as practiced today deals in punishments and rewards. In other words, it breeds fear and greed - the two things most destructive of spirituality.”

Later he added ruefully,

“It is like tackling a flood with water; or a burning barn with fire.”

Religions,especially the dogmatic ones,direct ones attention to the things outer(what Jesus refer to as "things of this world"),and away from the things inner(what Jesus referred to as "the kingdom of heaven").To be spiritual is to be connected with the things inner.

jagunlabi:

Religions,especially the dogmatic ones,direct ones attention to the things outer(what Jesus refer to as "things of this world",and away from the things inner(what Jesus referred to as "the kingdom of heaven".To be spiritual is to be connected with the things inner.

you dont understand what it means to be spiritual from a christian perspective.

Educate me.Although i do not believe you will tell me anything convincing or new.Try,anyway.

davidylan:

you dont understand what it means to be spiritual from a christian perspective.

jagunlabi:

Educate me.Although i do not believe you will tell me anything convincing or new.Try,anyway.

Educate you on what? You already have the mindset that you're not going to hear anything new so why waste time and energy on a lost cause? By all means believe in whatever "spirituality" assuages the empty God-shaped hole in your heart.

I just dislike seeing people struggle so desperately to force Christ into their own faithless mold.

In other words,you have nothing credible to say.That surprises me not.It is all good.

davidylan:

Educate you on what? You already have the mindset that you're not going to hear anything new so why waste time and energy on a lost cause? By all means believe in whatever "spirituality" assuages the empty God-shaped hole in your heart.

I don't give two hoots about the personage of Jesus,because i do not worship him like you do.I identify with what he taught because it is the same teachings that other enlightened beings have been teaching humans before Jesus came along and long after he was gone and that is the awakening to the inner world of our being,our essence.
So this is not about fitting the person of Jesus into any faithless mold.Moreover,Jesus was also faithless,so nothing wrong with that.

davidylan:

I just dislike seeing people struggle so desperately to force Christ into their own faithless mold.

jagunlabi:

In other words,you have nothing credible to sa[/b]y.That surprises me not.It is all good.

that's just escapist rubbish. Deciding not to engage a biased woolhead is not the same as not having something credible to say. Its whether i shld bother saying anything to someone whose mind is already made up that is the point.

jagunlabi:

I don't give two hoots about the personage of Jesus,because i do not worship him like you do.[b]I identify with what he taught because it is the same teachings that other enlightened beings have been teaching humans before Jesus came along and long after he was gone and that is the awakening to the inner world of our being,our essence.
So this is not about fitting the person of Jesus into any faithless mold.Moreover,Jesus was also faithless,so nothing wrong with that.

this again is the same mindless drivel we have to endure all the time . . . you dont care about Christ BUT identify with what he taught.

Exactly what do you identify with? His death on the cross? Salvation? Sin? Baptism? WHAT EXACTLY? Do you really know what Christ preached or are you just assuming you know?

@imhotep,

How body? Been quite a while, and I trust you're doing well?

imhotep:

Please read the following story slowly and meditatively ==>

For all his holiness, the Master seemed vaguely opposed to religion. This never ceased to puzzle the disciples who, unlike the Master, equated religion with spirituality.

“Religion as practiced today deals in punishments and rewards. In other words, it breeds fear and greed - the two things most destructive of spirituality.”

Later he added ruefully,

“It is like tackling a flood with water; or a burning barn with fire.”

Actually, I'd hoped to see something different. . . maybe a bit more involved. No doubt, you might have something to enlighten us with later (considering you requested the reader to read it slowly and meditatively ).

Anyways, just wanted to add, though: religion does not destroy spirituality. In my view, the former flows out of the latter - I had in mind James 1:26 & 27. There's a difference between 'vain religion' and 'pure religion', but let's quote both verses to see --

        If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue,
        but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
        Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this,
        To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to
        keep himself unspotted from the world.

Indeed, there's a 'religion' that tends to vanity and may be said in this regard to be opposed to true spirituality. However, a healthy spiritual lifestyle results in 'pure and undefiled religion' such that consideration for the less privileged and unworldliness are its hallmark. In this view, I don't think it is quite balanced to say that, on the whole, religion destroys spirituality.

I am a biased woolhead because i do not subscribe to what you believe in?David,you need to do something about your ego.It is taking you over(yet again),because i can feel the strong negative vibes of your anger.Not healthy for you,man.

davidylan:

that's just escapist rubbish. Deciding not to engage a biased woolhead is not the same as not having something credible to say. Its whether i shld bother saying anything to someone whose mind is already made up that is the point.

Yes,but i don't expect you to understand that.Afterall you are just religious.It will take a more spritual awareness to know what i am talking about.It is all good.
It is the teachings that count,and not the teacher.

davidylan:

you dont care about Christ BUT identify with what he taught.

None of those.

davidylan:

Exactly what do you identify with? His death on the cross? Salvation? Sin? Baptism? WHAT EXACTLY?

Jesus gave esoteric teachings to the few that is quite similar to that of Buddha's teachings,and that was about the kingdom of heaven within all of us and how to connect with it.This was suppressed by the gospel writers,but some of the teachings managed to filter through into the canonical gospels as deep mystery parables that are dificult to understand by the normal christian follower like you.

davidylan:

Do you really know what Christ preached or are you just assuming you know?

Religions like christianity and islam teach their adherents to worship external gods and that focuses their minds on the outer instead of the inner realm in which the creator truly resides.God is up in the sky,a he,the god of the jews and mohammed,and father of Jesus,etc,etc.

jagunlabi:

Religions like christianity and islam teach their adherents to worship external gods and that focuses their minds on the outer instead of the inner realm in which the creator truly resides.God is up in the sky,a he,the god of the jews and mohammed,and father of Jesus,etc,etc.

You are right!!. Religion is the banana skin and spirituality is the banana. The misery in the world is because religious people throw away the banana and are holding on to the skin.

Exactly.

Horus:

You are right!!. Religion is the banana skin and spirituality is the banana. The misery in the world is because religious people throw away the banana and are holding on to the skin.

imhotep:


“Religion as practiced today deals in punishments and rewards. In other words, it breeds fear and greed - the two things most destructive of spirituality.”

I agree with u. Also, the whole individual salvation thing is misguided in my poinion. People behave a certain way because they want to go to heaven . . that is a selfish end, and could not be what "God" intended. Heaven is the situation that will result on earth when we really start to give a shit about the human condition, and not our individual souls.

This is how religion destroys spirituality.Please watch this interview,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3zd2nFDY5Q

Unfortunately, most of the time, belief systems are passing off as spirituality. The moment you believe something, if you believe "this is it", you are bringing a certain degree of rigidity into the very life process that you are. This is not spirituality. The spiritual process is always a quest, a seeking; that is why when you say, "I'm on a spiritual path," you say "I'm a seeker." When you say "I'm religious," you say "I'm a believer." There is a significant difference, because believing means you have assumed something that you do not know; seeking means you have realised that you do not know, which brings an enormous amount of flexibility. Whenever you say, "I do not know something," you are flexible. Whenever you think, "I know it," you become rigid. This rigidity is not just in attitude; it percolates into every aspect of your life. This rigidity in religion is also the cause of an enormous amount of suffering in the world.

imhotep:

Please read the following story slowly and meditatively ==>


“Religion as practiced today deals in punishments and rewards. In other words, it breeds fear and greed - the two things most destructive of spirituality.”

Elucidate further

imhotep:

Later he added ruefully,

“It is like tackling a flood with water; or a burning barn with fire.”

How?

Horus:

Unfortunately, most of the time, belief systems are passing off as spirituality. The moment you believe something, if you believe "this is it", you are bringing a certain degree of rigidity into the very life process that you are. This is not spirituality. The spiritual process is always a quest, a seeking; that is why when you say, "I'm on a spiritual path," you say "I'm a seeker." When you say "I'm religious," you say "I'm a believer." There is a significant difference, because believing means you have assumed something that you do not know; seeking means you have realised that you do not know, which brings an enormous amount of flexibility. Whenever you say, "I do not know something," you are flexible. Whenever you think, "I know it," you become rigid. This rigidity is not just in attitude; it percolates into every aspect of your life. This rigidity in religion is also the cause of an enormous amount of suffering in the world.

Jesus did say something like,"ask and it shall be given.Seek and ye shall find".Sounds like an encouragement to go on a spiritual path or journey.But once one have accepted to "worship" anything,even if that thing is Jesus,the spiritual journey has ended before it even starts,which means that Jesus' efforts has already been thwarted by the very people who claim to follow him.
The very act of worship brings the desire for spiritual evolution in any human being to a halt.

imhotep:

Please read the following story slowly and meditatively ==>
For all his holiness, the Master seemed vaguely opposed to religion. This never ceased to puzzle the disciples who, unlike the Master, equated religion with spirituality.

I guess you've mis-interpreted the disciples as i believe they intended to put it right to the non believers that God is a spirit and you will have to worship Him in truth and in Spirit.

imhotep:

“Religion as practiced today deals in punishments and rewards. In other words, it breeds fear and greed - the two things most destructive of spirituality.”

Later he added ruefully,

“It is like tackling a flood with water; or a burning barn with fire.”

If you say by most leaders of today, yes you are quite right but remember the leaders are not also responsible for those gullible people who run after fake prophets, pastors, imam with naive minds. Hence religion i.e Christianity must be well understood before spirituality comes in. And it can only be done by studying the words of God and the doctrine of the Holy Spirit.

Another conversation to ponder upon ===>

Disciple : “How does one seek union with God?”

Master : “The harder you seek, the more distance you create between Him and you.

Disciple: So what does one do about the distance?”

Master : “Understand that it isn̓t there.”

Disciple : “Does that mean that God and I are one?”

Master : “Not one. Not two.”

Disciple : “How is that possible?”

Master : “The sun and its light, the ocean and the wave, the singer and his song—not one. Not two.

Spirituality means independence from religion.Religion needs a space between man and his creator in a self appointed role as the intermediary,the intercessor,the go between.That is how religion survives.It needs that space.
Spirituality takes that space away by linking man directly back to his source,his maker,his creator,hence rendering religion redundant.
This is,of course,evil in the eyes of the religious establishment because such a direct link threatens it's own very existence.
Religion has to be in the middle.It has to be the go between.It has to have that space between mankind and it's maker,or else it will cease to exist.
It is all about survival,

Continuing;
Religion cannot be blamed,and neither should it be blamed for trying to survive,for looking out for it's own continuing existence.It has every right to do so,just like any other content of this physical existence has every right to seek continuing survival.The sheep flock are it's source of existence.It needs the faithfuls to survive.They are the oxygen with which it breathes.Without them,it dies.Very simple.

The fault lies with the faithfuls who are willing to be used as survival means or tools by remaining spiritually unconscious throughout their lives.They bought the lie that religion is willingly and choose to be perpetually manipulated.They should take the responsibility for the spiritual coma in which they find themselves.

Another story to reflect upon =>

THE GURU'S CAT

When the guru sat down to worship each evening, the pet cat would get in the way and distract the worshippers.
So he ordered that the cat be tied during evening worship.

After the guru died, the cat continued to be tied during evening worship. And when the cat expired, another cat
was brought to the temple so that it could be duly tied during evening worship.

Centuries later, learned treatises were written by the guru’s scholarly disciples on the liturgical significance
of tying up a cat while worship is performed.