Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. - Religion - Nairaland
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| Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 1:19pm On Jan 12, 2016 |
You were born the first time by your earthly parents. That was a natural occurence you didnt have control over. It simply happened. Now you are grown and you need a second birth. There is something about the second that makes it distinct though similar in principle to the first. The second birth requires a spiritual parent. Just one. The second must happen before you can claim to be saved. Every one experienced the first but only few (would) know the second before death. In addition, the second birth is not seen or witnessed by men but the evidence is clear to all. Now here is the problem. The principle. Both the natural and spiritual follow this. YOU DONT KNOW WHEN, AND YOU HAVE NO CHOICE IN BOTH. Reference: John 3. In my personal and objective study of John 3, this is my understanding. 4 Likes |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by analice107: 9:01pm On Jan 13, 2016 |
Speechless3:@ops. I don't understand you. Do you study the Bible objectively or you depend on the Holy Spirit to give you revelations of the word? Well, lets look at what Jon is basically saying. Since your main point is, Spiritual rebirth or being born again, and it not being decisional. Let's start with Jon3:16. For God so loved the world that He Gave (that is God's part) His only begotten son... Jon 3:15 said that WHOSOEVER. no specifications to race, tribe colour or Creed. Whosoever, BELIEVES (AND RECIEVES) that gift of His son... Sister, you will have to do the believing and recieving of the gift, no one will do it for you. The word of God is preached everyday, the Holy Spirit convicts your heart every day. The choice is yours to make if you will believe or not. Let's look at Jon15:7 if you abide in me (you do the abiding) , and my words abide in you, then you will ask for any thing, and it shall be given to you. (but you must abide first) Let's go to Psalms 91:1, He that dwells in the secret place of the Most High, shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. (the abiding and dwelling is your part to play) Now, let's return to Jon3. Jon 3:3, Jesus answerd and said to him(Nicodemus) YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN. (YOU) not someone else doing it for you. But as you rightly stated, this exercise or action has no witnesses. You believe it in your heart, and speak it with your mouth, it happens. No one will see it happen. Even you won't know it happened. Then if you abide in the word (that is, do what is written there in) it shall be evident in your speech, reactions, responds, treatment of others. Etc. Jesus says, this is likened to the wind which blows but you can't tell where it comes from or goes to. You just feel it. And this is how the Father wills it to be. The Father's will that, the first birth, man should enter the world through another person, with witnesses, but wills that the second birth should not be the will of another man. So If you say, it's not decisional, It doesn't run in line with the scriptures. Remember you use scriptures to interpret other scriptures. Scriptures don't stand alone. It's totally your decision, whether to be born again or not. THE POWER OF CHOICE GIVES YOU THE RIGHTS NOT TO BE A ROBOT. THE DECISION IS TOTALLY YOURS. 7 Likes |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 12:24am On Jan 14, 2016 |
Speechless3:when it comes to God's knowledge here you guys are far-fetched and treat it with a light view. It's only in romance section where your whole knowledge lies |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 12:58am On Jan 14, 2016 |
SaintHephzibah: Lol you dont know me. I think i am going through a transition in my life. God is calling me ! 3 Likes |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 1:33am On Jan 14, 2016 |
analice107: Well will the holyspirit reveal something unreasonable? something i cannot judge with my senses? analice107:You mean God's part stopped at just giving his son and then i would have to dig out of my liver some force to believe in order to get saved? Where is our hope? Have you seen John 1:13.It states that those who receive him(vs12) are the Spiritually born of God and not of man or the flesh. Did you see that? God's birth first. Its true John3:16 says whosoever but who are the "whosoever"? Are they not the ones born of God. From what i have seen so far, God is bringing back to life dead people. And a dead person must first be alive to sing, laugh, cry, repent, believe, dance, love, etc. analice107:Some of us dont have faith. Some of us would not be convicted. Some of us hate the thought of God. Some of us have become rocky in heart, we cant melt. Some of us are....If God cannot save us from all these who would? Didn't the son die for all these sins including unbelief? Can you see your child helpless on the ground and still demand he first raise his hand and hold you cos you have played your part by standing close to him? That child would not get up. That child would not lift a finger because he is deaf, blind, lifeless, gone. That child would remain there, dead forever. How 'fatherly'of you! That father is the devil himself. There is nothing loving about him. That father would receive condemnation from all quarters of the world. He would be cursed. You may not know what you are saying, but you are describing God as this moping father who only offers his presence and nothing more. I appreciate your contribution but it would not harm you to look at the bible with all your senses intact discarding all you've been taught if necessary...Thanks. |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 6:53am On Jan 14, 2016 |
Speechless3:wow that's great. Heed the calling fervently. There may be worldly distractions that may repudiate you and hinder you so as to dampen your ambition to serve God. Stick to Him, abstain and segregate yourself from all inconsequential issues and obey God's call with all enthusiasm and fervour. But if i may ask, what are the pre-eminent signs that you have seen to show that God is calling you? |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Scholar8200(m): 11:01am On Jan 14, 2016 |
Speechless3:It is good to study the Bible; it is wrong to make claims from just one part without examining what is said by other passages on the same subject to get a view of the big picture. If choice plays no part then what does? Divine arbitrariness? Does it mean nobody can tell where he stands till he/she dies? Does it mean God makes a person saved whether they want it or not? What purpose then serves all the exhortations and commands to repentance and righteousness? Can you prove your conclusion from other parts of the Bible when even the Old testament was based on choice, "behold I set before you this day life.. and ...death... therefore CHOOSE life that..." Deuteronomy 30:19 You correctly said the second birth is necessary for salvation but your conclusion is unscriptural else why would: Jesus command to, "believe and be baptised to be saved or refuse and be damned"? Both action being subject to a man's choice? Jesus command to," repent and believe" knowing fully well that it is a choice to be made? Peter urge his listeners on the day of pentecost to repent after they asked, " what shall we do?" Paul urge the Corinthians to examine themselves if Christ was in them if they did not even know whether they were born of the Spirit? Besides, there is a large difference in both births hence you need to understand on what basis both are alike. For instance, you had no form of existence(hence no will, intelligence etc) before the natural birth unlike the second birth that is preceded by an existence that is alienated from God and falls short of His Glory. 1 Like |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 4:43pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
SaintHephzibah: Thank you thank you ! Signs; i can see how lost i am now. Have so many doubts about my church (catholic) I have become partially opened to the word. 1 Like |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 4:56pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
Scholar8200: Okay i see what you are saying. Mercy beaucoup. Will study more. However, to clarify somethings i have few questions for you Is a sinner dead in spirit? Is repentance an act of the spirit? Is believing an act of the spirit? Can man wake up his spirit? If not, Is it by divine intervention? Is salvation obtained in the spirit or mind? Is it the mind that purifies the spirit or the spirit through the word purifies the mind? If dead spiritually, are one's spiritual senses dead too? Sorry for the bother, they look interrelated. |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 5:18pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
Speechless3:observing catholic doctrines religiously and piously, confessing your sins to the priest and going to church regularly has absolutely nothing to do with God's Heartbeat which is Salvation from Sin and personal need for a Saviour. (Mark 7 vs 6-10) My fellow brother of the truth Scholar8200 will have it all to say as he'll expound the Truth about Salvation to you. Take k of yourself 1 Like |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Scholar8200(m): 5:35pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
Speechless3:Yes in the sense that a sinner is alienated or severed from the Life of God as Ephesians 4:18 says. Just as the body severed from the spirit is dead. Their [e]moral understanding is darkened and their reasoning is beclouded. [They are] alienated (estranged, self-banished) from the life of God [with no share in it; this is] because of the ignorance (the want of knowledge and perception, the willful blindness) that is [f]deep-seated in them, due to their hardness of heart [to the insensitiveness of their moral nature]. Ephesians 4:18 Repentance is an act of the will in response to the enlightening of the mind by truth. That is why the ignorance that precedes repentance is described as darkness and blindness in Ephesians 4:18 It involves the whole person. To be born again or saved is to be born of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit); but he will never be saved who never believes, and they will never believe that never heard the Gospel. Hence the new birth , being born of the Spirit, is only possible when one has chosen to open his heart to the Gospel and He that it presents. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Else, why did Jesus command a man to do what he had no power or control over? Else why will they be damned who do not believe for what they had no power or control over? It involves the whole man! Romans 8:13 tells us we mortify the sinful deeds of the body by the Spirit (after we are born of the Spirit). If we claim that only the spirit gets saved and continue in sin, Romans 8:13 and other allied passages tell us we deceive ourselves and are on the broadway that leads to hell. The Spirit of God purifies our spirit , soul and body and is able, if we are willing, to preserve all blameless: And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you through and through [separate you from profane things, make you pure and wholly consecrated to God]; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved sound and complete [and found] blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah). 24 Faithful is He Who is calling you [to Himself] and utterly trustworthy, and He will also do it [fulfill His call by hallowing and keeping you]. 1Thessalonians 5:23,24 Amp Dead to the things of God but open to demonic manipulations as Matthew 12:43-45, Ephesians 2:2 shows. No problem 1 Like |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 6:08pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Okay. Scholar8200:My my do you know how many times ive tried repenting by "willing it" upon enlightenment but no way! After nodding in agreement i still see no sign of a changed life. Is there no power that can make me truly hate sin because as it stands i dont hate sin even after all my prayers of repentance. My heart is still the same. I've never mourned over my sins. I have not seen why i should. Did you force yourself to accept Christ or you naturally accepted Christ after being born again? Scholar8200:Okay but still keeping a finger on this. Scholar8200: Okay am done arguing. This does not make enough sense to me. God wants to save you but he cant if you dont let him. Really? Why did he come in the first place without asking us if we needed him and his offer. He forgot he cant do anything without our permission? God knows am dead spiritually to him but still expects me to hear him spiritually and believe before he wakes me up? arrrgh this is crazy ! God knows i am shut up from him but open to demons by nature but still wants me to perform abracadabra by freeing myself a bit to believe him before he frees me. Is God really out to save me or just assist me in this whole salvation story!!!!!! |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 6:21pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
The person that hung on the cross was not trusting my choice for a successful salvation but himself! Christianity is messed up i swear. What is this rubbish y'all saying.  |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Scholar8200(m): 7:00pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
Speechless3:The words 'try' and 'willing it' explains your failure here. These are not religious rites! Rather you seek God on the basis of the Gospel, not thinking that repentance makes you 'fit' to approach Him but confessing the symptoms (sins) of your need for the salvation He has to offer through Christ. Now you do not recite this like we do the Lord's prayer, rather it's a heart to heart talk with the Savior. However, God sees your heart; nothing will happen if you are insincere, wanting to hold to some pet sin or define sin in your terms. (just like a sick person who cannot treat or cure himself BUT DESIRES TO BE HEALED will open up to the doctor that has the knowledge to) Consider the audience in Acts 2, they did not just nod in agreement, they expressed a desire upon seeing a need. Have you been this open before God in prayer? This portion of your quote reads like the cry of the seeker found in Romans 7 and Romans 8 revealed the answer that there is such a Power through the indwelling of the Lord through the Spirit. I wish you will go to God with this exasperation and also study these refs like you did John 3. Well there had to be a Provision before an offer! Besides millions have accepted that offer and did not remain the same. Why? After the fall, Salvation has remained a real need, not felt need. Most people do not appreciate the former as they do the latter. If God heals the sick , but makes no provision for the eternal destiny of the healed person what difference does it make? Who said so? That is why I said believing involves the whole person. You hear the Gospel with your ears, understand with the mind and intellect and respond with the will (or reject) and when this is done sincerely, trusting in the Saviour presented by the Gospel, the Spirit regenerates your spirit and the Life comes, at that point, you become reconciled to God. God does not assist you in salvation, He saves however, it wont happen against your will. Right from the OT, it has been, ''if you are willing''. Now when you read John 3, did you see where Jesus said just as Moses lifted up the serpent... Kindly read the story. The remedy was provided but anyone bitten by the snakes still needed to take a conscious action of faith. Note that the remedy would not appear to make sense, it seemed foolish but those who obeyed lived. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Scholar8200(m): 7:03pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
Speechless3:This is a rather hasty conclusion! |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 8:18pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
Speechless3:this is becoming argumentative rather than edifying and inspiring. I guess you need the truth in a simple term. Can we relay on gmail. Cos this is serious. |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by divineappo(m): 8:37pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
SaintHephzibah: |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by divineappo(m): 8:40pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
SaintHephzibah:dats so mean, u dont av to talk to sum1 dat way, we are all learning |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by analice107: 8:57pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
Speechless3:O my God!!!!!!!!. What? Lord, I didn't know you are this person, I wouldn't have wasted my battery on you. So Christianity is messed up? Then why even read John? Move along then, may you enjoy your life as whatever you have chosen to be. |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 10:28pm On Jan 14, 2016 |
Speechless3 I think you are onto something. I believe you can make a decision without a spiritual conviction. I did that. My conviction, much later, was decisive, not of my power, mind or even choice. The later is what keeps me in salvation. |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by joyandfaith: 6:19am On Jan 15, 2016 |
op is right. you decide to serve God but being born again or attain salvation is not decisional. it is God that decides on salvation or born again 1 Like |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 7:13am On Jan 15, 2016 |
joyandfaith:what exactly is this one saying for God's sake? |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 8:53am On Jan 15, 2016 |
SaintHephzibah:She is saying that many are called. Few are chosen. 1 Like |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Scholar8200(m): 10:34am On Jan 15, 2016 |
muafrika:But Jesus did not say that in relation to salvation. John 3:16 says whosoever! Modifying whosoever with that quote is tantamount to adding to the Bible. Besides, the saying many are called..., related to a parable having to do with service not salvation. Moreover, wont it be deceptive to offer a gift to all while those who can receive it had been marked? Why then will those who dont receive it be judged? 1 Like |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 11:08am On Jan 15, 2016 |
Scholar8200:I will answer with the parable of the ten virgins. They were are prepared for the groom, they all were to get into the wedding ceremony. Except one thing, only half carried enough oil. So the other half missed the opportunity because when the groom came, they had left the waiting to look for oil. The 10 were called, 5 were found ready. These 10 all represent the church. As far as the issue of choice is concerned, the following puts it best;(kjv) John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. Not to say that choice plays no part in salvation, which I believe is in contention here. The man has to decide to turnaround from evil, after getting the revelation of God, but the process begins with God. At the point of that revelation, without which salvation/religion is a waste of time. |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 11:22am On Jan 15, 2016 |
Scholar8200 The issue of judgement is not as simple. It goes into the the definition of what exactly is in the spirits of men. When you examine the first chapters of Romans, those who go into judgement do not do so because they did not know the truth. |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 8:27pm On Jan 16, 2016 |
joyandfaith: At last someone gets it! Just wondering the kind of decision a born again aka changed person would make: to serve God of course. |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 8:33pm On Jan 16, 2016 |
Speechless3 What  |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by An2elect2(f): 10:37pm On Jan 18, 2016 |
Speechless3:No man, no earthly wisdom has revealed this to you but the Spirit of Christ. Wait on girl, your salvation is at hand!!!!! |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by Nobody: 10:56pm On Jan 18, 2016 |
An2elect2: Really!!! I am waiting on the Lord!!!  1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by orisa37: 11:06am On Jan 19, 2016 |
It is the Baptism of The Holy Spirit for you. And you start experiencing The Nature of God in you. You become a carrier of the way, the truth and the life. You become equal to the Pope, Onayekan, Kukah, Adeboye, TBJoshua, Oyakilome, John, James, Peter, God to God and my brother. Good morning Brother!!!! |
| Re: Being Born Again Is Not Decisional. by icansimi(m): 10:12am On Feb 01, 2016 |
Speechless3: Op, don't you think you shld rather go private with anyone whom you think can give you some help rather than bringing it up here? Honestly, I feel you need a heart to talk with for as long as it could take until Jesus sorts you out. Using this forum amounts to lots of distractions due to time and other things including typing and network issues. Pls, find time to read and study Rom. 5 & 6. "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly" Rom. 5:8. icansimeon@accountant.com 2 Likes 1 Share |
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