malvisguy212:
so who was speaking if not the Jews ? The preceding verse indicate it was the Jews talking, the verse say "IN THEIR SAYING" how can you claim, it was the quran talking here ? Your lies is too much.

habicab:


Malvisguy212dumb, you really are a problem to yourself. I even wonder how you get to understand yourself, I'm sure you will having a serious problem with that no doubt. There's really no point trying to make an unreasonable person understand a simple thing. Suit yourself Mr

malvisguy212:
so who was speaking if not the Jews ? The preceding verse indicate it was the Jews talking, the verse say "IN THEIR SAYING" how can you claim, it was the quran talking here ? Your lies is too much.

malvisguy212:
Lalasticala, OAM4J.

malvisguy212:
There are differences between Christianity and religion, Many are GOING TO CHURCH but few are GOING DOWN THE ROAD WHICH LEADS TO LIFE. Many are RELIGIOUS but few are RIGHT WITH GOD.

Religion is DOING while Christianity is DONE. When Jesus cried on the cross, "it is finished" The work of our salvation was FINISHED, DONE, ACCOMPLISHED and COMPLETED. A religious man may be likened as a man who try to swim from river kaduna to niger by his own strength, he will never make it. But the man who is save by faith is likened to be a man who get on a ship, hoping it will take him to his destination. This man simply rests upon the ship and lets the ship do all the work.

THIS ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN RELIGION AND CHRISTIANITY.
1. RELIGION: "Salvation is something I must do. I must somehow earn or gain salvation by the way I live."

CHRISTIANITY: "Salvation is something only God can do. Salvation is of the LORD!" (Eph. 2:8-9).

2. RELIGION: Religion is summed up in one word: DO--man trying to DO different things to please God and earn His favor.

CHRISTIANITY: Christianity is summed up in one word; DONE--Christ dying on the cross to save sinful man (John 19:30).

3. RELIGION: The religious man is busy
"working" (doing good works) in order to
be saved.

CHRISTIANITY: The saved person is "not working" (Rom. 4:5) but is RESTING upon the finished work of Another. Although he must beware (1 peter 5:

4. RELIGION: RELIGION is man trying to BRING HIMSELF TO GOD (by human effort, good works, ritualism, traditionalism, sacraments, etc.).

CHRISTIANITY: CHRISTIANITY is Christ BRINGING US TO GOD on the basis of what He did for us on the cross, NOT by our own effort. (1 Peter 3:18).

5. RELIGION: Man trying to please God in the wrong way (Rom. 8:8--"So then they that are in the FLESH cannot please God".

CHRISTIANITY: Man truly pleasing God in the only way (Hebrews 11:6--"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him".

6. RELIGION: The religious man is seeking to establish his own righteousness by ignoring the way of the righteousness of God (Rom. 10:3).

CHRISTIANITY: The saved man is satisfied with the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 5:21).

7.RELIGION: Religion is pictured in Genesis 3 by the fig leaves that Adam and Eve made for themselves--a terrible covering (Gen. 3:7).

CHRISTIANITY: Salvation is pictured in Genesis 3 by the coats of skin which God provided by way of the shedding of BLOOD--a perfect covering (Gen. 3:21).

8.RELIGION: CAIN'S RELIGION--"I bring to God the labour of my own hands" (Gen. 4:3).

CHRISTIANITY: ABEL'S FAITH--"I bring to God a blood sacrifice. An innocent substitute must die to save me" (Gen. 4:4).

Good works done by sinful man can never please a holy God. The greatest good work is GOD'S WORK accomplished by Jesus Christ who offered Himself on the cross as the sinner's Substitute.Thus we are not saved by good works but we are saved unto good works: "For we are
his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10). "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Are you resting fully in the finished work of Christ? Are you trusting in Jesus Christ, WHO HE IS, WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR YOU and WHAT HE HAS SAID IN HIS WORD? "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:22).

malvisguy212:
There are differences between Christianity and religion, Many are GOING TO CHURCH but few are GOING DOWN THE ROAD WHICH LEADS TO LIFE. Many are RELIGIOUS but few are RIGHT WITH GOD.

Religion is DOING while Christianity is DONE. When Jesus cried on the cross, "it is finished" The work of our salvation was FINISHED, DONE, ACCOMPLISHED and COMPLETED. A religious man may be likened as a man who try to swim from river kaduna to niger by his own strength, he will never make it. But the man who is save by faith is likened to be a man who get on a ship, hoping it will take him to his destination. This man simply rests upon the ship and lets the ship do all the work.

THIS ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN RELIGION AND CHRISTIANITY.
1. RELIGION: "Salvation is something I must do. I must somehow earn or gain salvation by the way I live."

CHRISTIANITY: "Salvation is something only God can do. Salvation is of the LORD!" (Eph. 2:8-9).

2. RELIGION: Religion is summed up in one word: DO--man trying to DO different things to please God and earn His favor.

CHRISTIANITY: Christianity is summed up in one word; DONE--Christ dying on the cross to save sinful man (John 19:30).

3. RELIGION: The religious man is busy
"working" (doing good works) in order to
be saved.

CHRISTIANITY: The saved person is "not working" (Rom. 4:5) but is RESTING upon the finished work of Another. Although he must beware (1 peter 5:

4. RELIGION: RELIGION is man trying to BRING HIMSELF TO GOD (by human effort, good works, ritualism, traditionalism, sacraments, etc.).

CHRISTIANITY: CHRISTIANITY is Christ BRINGING US TO GOD on the basis of what He did for us on the cross, NOT by our own effort. (1 Peter 3:18).

5. RELIGION: Man trying to please God in the wrong way (Rom. 8:8--"So then they that are in the FLESH cannot please God".

CHRISTIANITY: Man truly pleasing God in the only way (Hebrews 11:6--"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him".

6. RELIGION: The religious man is seeking to establish his own righteousness by ignoring the way of the righteousness of God (Rom. 10:3).

CHRISTIANITY: The saved man is satisfied with the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 5:21).

7.RELIGION: Religion is pictured in Genesis 3 by the fig leaves that Adam and Eve made for themselves--a terrible covering (Gen. 3:7).

CHRISTIANITY: Salvation is pictured in Genesis 3 by the coats of skin which God provided by way of the shedding of BLOOD--a perfect covering (Gen. 3:21).

8.RELIGION: CAIN'S RELIGION--"I bring to God the labour of my own hands" (Gen. 4:3).

CHRISTIANITY: ABEL'S FAITH--"I bring to God a blood sacrifice. An innocent substitute must die to save me" (Gen. 4:4).

Good works done by sinful man can never please a holy God. The greatest good work is GOD'S WORK accomplished by Jesus Christ who offered Himself on the cross as the sinner's Substitute.Thus we are not saved by good works but we are saved unto good works: "For we are
his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10). "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Are you resting fully in the finished work of Christ? Are you trusting in Jesus Christ, WHO HE IS, WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR YOU and WHAT HE HAS SAID IN HIS WORD? "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:22).

Ioannes:


in the light of your post could you explain the letter of Paul to the Philippians 2:12

"therefore my dear friends, as you have always obeyed,... continue to work out your salvation in fear and trembling"

malvisguy212:
is to prove that our faith is real, work is the proof, we are elected. Jesus say you cannot come to the father without Him ( election)... if you Love me you will keep MY commandment (evidence of election). He combine this two together when he say : my sheep here my voice (election) and follow me (evidence). Our works are not decisive in our salvation. They are evidence of God’s saving work in us.

Ioannes:


I'm sorry but that isn't the answer to my poser.

why did Paul say "...WORK out your salvation in FEAR and TREMBLING"?

I hope you know the meaning of "to work out something".

and why in FEAR AND TREMBLING if it's just a proof of something that is already there.

malvisguy212:
okay. The Greek word translated "fear" in this context can equally mean "reverence" or "respect." In 1 corinthians 2:3, paul came to the corinthians in fear and trembling, he was afraid:

1 Corinthians 2:3
3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear
and much trembling,

But instead, it was the corinthians who gave him an encouraging reception, that is, with
great humility and respect for his position as a
minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ;

2 Corinthians 7:15
15 And his affection for you is even greater, as
he remembers the obedience of you all, how
you received him with fear and trembling.


So what Philippians 2:12 is saying is that we should receive the work of salvation in great respect and humility, in fact here what david say in psalm:

Psalm 2:11
11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

If fear, why rejoice ? The fear imply humility and great respect.

Ioannes:


you conveniently ignored the part that said WORK out your salvation. why WORK out something that is already assured and you can't lose when you read that working out part with the rest of the sentence, then you see that the translation of humility you are trying to impose on fear and trembling is not justified.

what does Paul mean to Work out our salvation

Oh and btw, as a corroboration of my point, why did James say in the book of James chapter 2 vs 14-26 that "Faith without good works is dead"

malvisguy212:
that is why my first post say work is the evidence of faith.

If you read the op very well, you will not ask such question, when jesus say it is FINISH, the work of our salvation is done, if we add anything untop this work of salvation, then it is not GRACE anymore, paul wrote that salvation is “by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing;it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast” (Eph 2:8-9). If it is of works then it is not grace for grace is given freely and cannot be earned. we are not saved by works but we were “created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (Eph 2:10). We are saved for works not by works.

Ioannes:


...and James 2:14-26?

malvisguy212:
james audience is the save, james is addressing the save.
(James understood work as the RESULT OF SALVATION: a person does good works because he is saved)

James wrote how a beliver can show, his faith is genuine, in other word, a beliver can show how is faith is real. In fact here what james 2:18 said:

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will SHOW you my faith BY MY DEEDS.

Notice here, james did not say , I will show you my faith WITH my deeds, NO, he say BY my deed. James was referring to those good works
that a saved person performs which gives
evidence of a real, living, saving faith. Paul talk about the good work the unsaved tries to do in other to win God favor and earn his place in heaven.

In Romans 4:5 we are given an example of a person who is justified freely by God’s grace
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on
him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is
counted for righteousness."
Notice that he is the person THAT DOES NOT WORK! He does not work at all! He is not trusting or counting on anything that he has done. He realizes that there is not one thing that he has ever done that could earn one drop of favor or approval or acceptance before a holy God!

Ioannes:


so in other words, I can commit as much sin as I like, as I long as I have "accepted Jesus as my lord and savior" I can't lose the salvation I already have?

malvisguy212:

(James understood work as the RESULT OF SALVATION: a person does good works because he is saved)
James wrote how a beliver can show, his faith is genuine, in other word, a beliver can show how is faith is real.

Ioannes:


I'm sorry but that isn't the answer to my poser.

why did Paul say "...WORK out your salvation in FEAR and TREMBLING"?

I hope you know the meaning of "to work out something".

and why in FEAR AND TREMBLING if it's just a proof of something that is already there.

malvisguy212:
if I may ask, are you a christian ? How can you proof the evidence of your faith ? This is what I say.
In other for the save to prove the evidence of his faith, do you think is to commit sin ? Paul answer this question in romans 6:1-2
"1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2MAY IT NEVER BE.

Ioannes:


I'm sorry but all these your merry-go-round does not explain why Paul said we should work out our salvation. if my salvation is already assured why should I work it out?

Scholar8200:
Philipians 2:13 sets it in perspective:

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

God works in us through our faith and we express the same by cooperating with Him! That is why It is written:

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 8:13

Summarily, the works are described thus:

3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1Thess 1:3

The absence of these works means the absence of saving faith!

malvisguy212:
I thought we are thought with this ? 1 peter 5:8 say "BE vigilant" in other word the save need to be vigilant, if you don't work it out, how will you prove the evidence of your faith ?

The unsave is TRYING to please God. (Romans 8:8. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.)
BUT the save is resting on the FINISH WORK of another ( Matthew 19:16-21; 21 give the evidence of a saving faith " jesus told the rich young ruler to sold what he have and give half to the poor)

Ioannes:


OK bro, it's obvious we won't yield for each other, which is understandable. let's just agree to disagree.

malvisguy212:
what denomination you belong to ? Muslim , christian ?

Ioannes:


lol. Islam is not a christian denomination. I'm unapologetically Catholic.

malvisguy212:
alright.

Ioannes:

and u?

Ioannes:


and u?

malvisguy212:
I want you to consider this verse:
Romans 11:5-6
5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Grace is the unmarited favor from God, right ? A free gift from God. Grace and work are two principle that opposed to each other. If you have grace then you cannot have work, right ? Okay! If you have a free gift, then it cannot be earned or paid for. If you work for something and earn it, then it cannot be a free gift. If it is a debt, then it cannot be grace. If it is a reward, then it cannot be grace. Salvation is either all of grace or else it is all of works. And the BIBLE INSISTS that it is ALL OF GRACE , "NOT of works"( eph 2:8-9) you cannot work for something that is a GIFT.

malvisguy212:
There are differences between Christianity and religion, Many are GOING TO CHURCH but few are GOING DOWN THE ROAD WHICH LEADS TO LIFE. Many are RELIGIOUS but few are RIGHT WITH GOD.

Religion is DOING while Christianity is DONE. When Jesus cried on the cross, "it is finished" The work of our salvation was FINISHED, DONE, ACCOMPLISHED and COMPLETED. A religious man may be likened as a man who try to swim from river kaduna to niger by his own strength, he will never make it. But the man who is save by faith is likened to be a man who get on a ship, hoping it will take him to his destination. This man simply rests upon the ship and lets the ship do all the work.

THIS ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN RELIGION AND CHRISTIANITY.
1. RELIGION: "Salvation is something I must do. I must somehow earn or gain salvation by the way I live."

CHRISTIANITY: "Salvation is something only God can do. Salvation is of the LORD!" (Eph. 2:8-9).

2. RELIGION: Religion is summed up in one word: DO--man trying to DO different things to please God and earn His favor.

CHRISTIANITY: Christianity is summed up in one word; DONE--Christ dying on the cross to save sinful man (John 19:30).

3. RELIGION: The religious man is busy
"working" (doing good works) in order to
be saved.

CHRISTIANITY: The saved person is "not working" (Rom. 4:5) but is RESTING upon the finished work of Another. Although he must beware (1 peter 5:

4. RELIGION: RELIGION is man trying to BRING HIMSELF TO GOD (by human effort, good works, ritualism, traditionalism, sacraments, etc.).

CHRISTIANITY: CHRISTIANITY is Christ BRINGING US TO GOD on the basis of what He did for us on the cross, NOT by our own effort. (1 Peter 3:18).

5. RELIGION: Man trying to please God in the wrong way (Rom. 8:8--"So then they that are in the FLESH cannot please God".

CHRISTIANITY: Man truly pleasing God in the only way (Hebrews 11:6--"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him".

6. RELIGION: The religious man is seeking to establish his own righteousness by ignoring the way of the righteousness of God (Rom. 10:3).

CHRISTIANITY: The saved man is satisfied with the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 5:21).

7.RELIGION: Religion is pictured in Genesis 3 by the fig leaves that Adam and Eve made for themselves--a terrible covering (Gen. 3:7).

CHRISTIANITY: Salvation is pictured in Genesis 3 by the coats of skin which God provided by way of the shedding of BLOOD--a perfect covering (Gen. 3:21).

8.RELIGION: CAIN'S RELIGION--"I bring to God the labour of my own hands" (Gen. 4:3).

CHRISTIANITY: ABEL'S FAITH--"I bring to God a blood sacrifice. An innocent substitute must die to save me" (Gen. 4:4).

Good works done by sinful man can never please a holy God. The greatest good work is GOD'S WORK accomplished by Jesus Christ who offered Himself on the cross as the sinner's Substitute.Thus we are not saved by good works but we are saved unto good works: "For we are
his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10). "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Are you resting fully in the finished work of Christ? Are you trusting in Jesus Christ, WHO HE IS, WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR YOU and WHAT HE HAS SAID IN HIS WORD? "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:22).

malvisguy212:
There are differences between Christianity and religion, Many are GOING TO CHURCH but few are GOING DOWN THE ROAD WHICH LEADS TO LIFE. Many are RELIGIOUS but few are RIGHT WITH GOD.

Religion is DOING while Christianity is DONE. When Jesus cried on the cross, "it is finished" The work of our salvation was FINISHED, DONE, ACCOMPLISHED and COMPLETED. A religious man may be likened as a man who try to swim from river kaduna to niger by his own strength, he will never make it. But the man who is save by faith is likened to be a man who get on a ship, hoping it will take him to his destination. This man simply rests upon the ship and lets the ship do all the work.

THIS ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN RELIGION AND CHRISTIANITY.
1. RELIGION: "Salvation is something I must do. I must somehow earn or gain salvation by the way I live."

CHRISTIANITY: "Salvation is something only God can do. Salvation is of the LORD!" (Eph. 2:8-9).

2. RELIGION: Religion is summed up in one word: DO--man trying to DO different things to please God and earn His favor.

CHRISTIANITY: Christianity is summed up in one word; DONE--Christ dying on the cross to save sinful man (John 19:30).

3. RELIGION: The religious man is busy
"working" (doing good works) in order to
be saved.

CHRISTIANITY: The saved person is "not working" (Rom. 4:5) but is RESTING upon the finished work of Another. Although he must beware (1 peter 5:

4. RELIGION: RELIGION is man trying to BRING HIMSELF TO GOD (by human effort, good works, ritualism, traditionalism, sacraments, etc.).

CHRISTIANITY: CHRISTIANITY is Christ BRINGING US TO GOD on the basis of what He did for us on the cross, NOT by our own effort. (1 Peter 3:18).

5. RELIGION: Man trying to please God in the wrong way (Rom. 8:8--"So then they that are in the FLESH cannot please God".

CHRISTIANITY: Man truly pleasing God in the only way (Hebrews 11:6--"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him".

6. RELIGION: The religious man is seeking to establish his own righteousness by ignoring the way of the righteousness of God (Rom. 10:3).

CHRISTIANITY: The saved man is satisfied with the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 5:21).

7.RELIGION: Religion is pictured in Genesis 3 by the fig leaves that Adam and Eve made for themselves--a terrible covering (Gen. 3:7).

CHRISTIANITY: Salvation is pictured in Genesis 3 by the coats of skin which God provided by way of the shedding of BLOOD--a perfect covering (Gen. 3:21).

8.RELIGION: CAIN'S RELIGION--"I bring to God the labour of my own hands" (Gen. 4:3).

CHRISTIANITY: ABEL'S FAITH--"I bring to God a blood sacrifice. An innocent substitute must die to save me" (Gen. 4:4).

Good works done by sinful man can never please a holy God. The greatest good work is GOD'S WORK accomplished by Jesus Christ who offered Himself on the cross as the sinner's Substitute.Thus we are not saved by good works but we are saved unto good works: "For we are
his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10). "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Are you resting fully in the finished work of Christ? Are you trusting in Jesus Christ, WHO HE IS, WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR YOU and WHAT HE HAS SAID IN HIS WORD? "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:22).

malvisguy212:
were did you explained it ? You said it was the quran saying " we have kill the messiah" does it make sense to you ? I don't even know why I am still replying you.

malvisguy212:
were did you explained it ? You said it was the quran saying " we have kill the messiah" does it make sense to you ? I don't even know why I am still replying you.