JackBizzle:


I will sell my left eye the day you say something truthful about the bad things the catholic church has done.

We both know that Italo is not telling the full story- there are popes who supported slavery in their writings eg Pope Gregory 1

i always try to say truthfull thing about what the church has done, i take my time to look at what the church has said through the centuriees, what she taught, even the atrocities the men of God committted in Gods name, d only difference is that i seperate the teachings of the church from the bad and contrary behaviour of many christain.


I have read about gegory 1 and the many other gregory that came after him, i have not read any of their writtings teaching chattel slavery, if u have them please paste them here so we can see. Italo gave his side of the story by quoting the pope, u can do same.

JackBizzle:


Prisoners of war? Indetured servitude?


Which prisoners of war or economic migrants were Europeans taking slaves from Ethopia under the support of the catholic church.


You and Italo should be lawyers. You can lie lie lie!

i do nnot know if u and italo agreed to call each otheer liars but i dont enjoy such when i am discussing. Italo provided papal encyclicals and bulls showing that the popes condeemned chatel slavery and commanded the freedom of slaves under pain of eexcommunication. I commended his research if u disagree show that his encyclicals are wrong or were forged or that he lied, stop making silly insinuattions likee sayyying u can lie and the like.

I clarified that i belive the bulls against slavery didnt include prisoners of war and indentured servitude, that is my opinion all you need to do is show me what lie i have told.

Dont turn d discussion into a kids play were everybody accuses everybody of lying and been a liar. You can present your own documents that shows the church teaching chatel slavery.

Ubenedictus:
i always try to say truthfull thing about what the church has done, i take my time to look at what the church has said through the centuriees, what she taught, even the atrocities the men of God committted in Gods name, d only difference is that i seperate the teachings of the church from the bad and contrary behaviour of many christain.


I have read about gegory 1 and the many other gregory that came after him, i have not read any of their writtings teaching chattel slavery, if u have them please paste them here so we can see. Italo gave his side of the story by quoting the pope, u can do same.

You and Italo should know. You carry yourself as if you were high ranking clergymen or catholic historians.

The mere fact that you are asking me about popes who supported slavery in their writings shows that you have some dubious elements in you.

Or do you expect an Economist to be asking you for evidence of the historical failures of capitalism (even though captialism has huge benefits)?

Why then would you, as an educated catholic be asking me to provide you evidence for the bad popes who supported slavery in the past (even though there are good popes who served the church righteously)

Ubenedictus:
i do nnot know if u and italo agreed to call each otheer liars but i dont enjoy such when i am discussing. Italo provided papal encyclicals and bulls showing that the popes condeemned chatel slavery and commanded the freedom of slaves under pain of eexcommunication. I commended his research if u disagree show that his encyclicals are wrong or were forged or that he lied, stop making silly insinuattions likee sayyying u can lie and the like.

I clarified that i belive the bulls against slavery didnt include prisoners of war and indentured servitude, that is my opinion all you need to do is show me what lie i have told.

Dont turn d discussion into a kids play were everybody accuses everybody of lying and been a liar. You can present your own documents that shows the church teaching chatel slavery.

I would have been more mature in my response to you but my bitter experience at the hands of catholic apologists has taught me differently

Meeenh! provide evidence nah!!?? Haba! It's not that hard.

JackBizzle:



You and Italo should know. You carry yourself as if you were high ranking clergymen or catholic historians.

The mere fact that you are asking me about popes who supported slavery in their writings shows that you have some dubious elements in you.

Or do you expect an Economist to be asking you for evidence of the historical failures of capitalism (even though captialism has huge benefits)?

Why then would you, as an educated catholic be asking me to provide you evidence for the bad popes who supported slavery in the past (even though there are good popes who served the church righteously)

PastorAIO:
Meeenh! provide evidence nah!!?? Haba! It's not that hard.

et tu brutus?


I have put evidence before only to see Italo and co runaway or ignore it. You have to understand that I am fed up with the lies and twisting these apologists do.


I will put the evidence forward if you are willing to be a guarantor. By guarantor, you will clearly state that Italo or Ubenedictor are dodging if they avoid the evidence.

Are you game?

JackBizzle:


et tu brutus?


I have put evidence before only to see Italo and co runaway or ignore it. You have to understand that I am fed up with the lies and twisting these apologists do.


I will put the evidence forward if you are willing to be a guarantor. By guarantor, you will clearly state that Italo or Ubenedictor are dodging if they avoid the evidence.

Are you game?

Granted!! I'm totally game.


But please EVERYBODY! This is not a team sport o! I am on the side of the truth however it may come out. I'll be frank I don't like all this 'et tu brutus'. Where do you know me from that you're tying your waist to mine? I owe you no loyalty. It has become an obvious formula. Earlier you asked me if someone had hacked my account because I asked you some questions. Then surprise surprise Italo then play the exact same hand asking if someone had hacked my account or if I was the real me. I don't like all these manipulative tactics. I nor join body with anybody, please. I beg you all please please please.

PastorAIO:


Granted!! I'm totally game.


But please EVERYBODY! This is not a team sport o! I am on the side of the truth however it may come out. I'll be frank I don't like all this 'et tu brutus'. Where do you know me from that you're tying your waist to mine? I owe you no loyalty. It has become an obvious formula. Earlier you asked me if someone had hacked my account because I asked you some questions. Then surprise surprise Italo then play the exact same hand asking if someone had hacked my account or if I was the real me. I don't like all these manipulative tactics. I nor join body with anybody, please. I beg you all please please please.

See this monkey feeling special.

You were a cool guy back in the day but you hardly were aloof. You seem more "comedic" nowadays. You didnt joke like this and so, you have changed in my eyes.


Anyhoo- time for evidence

JackBizzle:



I would have been more mature in my response to you but my bitter experience at the hands of catholic apologists has taught me differently

u can change that bad expirience today... You can show where popes have taugh that slaves are to be mere property with no rights i.e chatel slavery (if there exist such document that teaches such) and watch how we quitely agree or even kindly apologise... I do not think the church taught chatel slavery neither do italo, if u are sure she does show us.

JackBizzle:



You and Italo should know. You carry yourself as if you were high ranking clergymen or catholic historians.

The mere fact that you are asking me about popes who supported slavery in their writings shows that you have some dubious elements in you.

Or do you expect an Economist to be asking you for evidence of the historical failures of capitalism (even though captialism has huge benefits)?

Why then would you, as an educated catholic be asking me to provide you evidence for the bad popes who supported slavery in the past (even though there are good popes who served the church righteously)

we have over 260 popes since peter and theyy all enjoy writting weve had abt 21 ecumenical councils, several church father and doctors of the church spaning centuries, those are volumes, the works of joseph ratzinger aka pope benedict is extremely voluminous and i can bet pope francis havent read them all, the church the 2000yrs old with a long lists of writtings, i dont know any scholar that has read them all.....

An economist can be very ignorant of old economic models expecially when they were used 1000yrs ago. I have read about gregory 1 and the guy didnt seem to support chattel slavery, if u have documents i am unaware of oya present them.. I have read about bad popes but i dont know aany that officially taught chattel sslavery..

Hope yyou are aware that i am giving u a chance to put and end to this long arguement..

JackBizzle:


et tu brutus?


I have put evidence before only to see Italo and co runaway or ignore it. You have to understand that I am fed up with the lies and twisting these apologists do.


I will put the evidence forward if you are willing to be a guarantor. By guarantor, you will clearly state that Italo or Ubenedictor are dodging if they avoid the evidence.

Are you game?

pls where is d evidence u said was dodged?

Ubenedictus:
u can change that bad expirience today... You can show where popes have taugh that slaves are to be mere property with no rights i.e chatel slavery (if there exist such document that teaches such) and watch how we quitely agree or even kindly apologise... I do not think the church taught chatel slavery neither do italo, if u are sure she does show us.

Fair enough

Lb, abeg what are you doing??

And the irony of 'teacher' italo alluding to intelligence while taking cues from you

Anyhow

Ubenedictus:
u can change that bad expirience today... You can show where popes have taugh that slaves are to be mere property with no rights i.e chatel slavery (if there exist such document that teaches such) and watch how we quitely agree or even kindly apologise... I do not think the church taught chatel slavery neither do italo, if u are sure she does show us.

Maybe you can help me, as I've given up on your brother. For starters, you seem to be saying you'd be willing to apologise. that does not seem to align with italo's position, which is essiantially that the church is flawless. that it can do no wrong. that your oga pope apologizing was all just a charade, that it simply was just a fake, diplomatic act.

Is all this correct?

wiegraf:
Lb, abeg what are you doing??

Maybe you can help me, as I've given up on your brother. For starters, you seem to be saying you'd be willing to apologise. that does not seem to align with italo's position, which is essiantially that the church is flawless. that it can do no wrong. that your oga pope apologizing was all just a charade, that it simply was just a fake, diplomatic act.

Is all this correct?

i agree wit italo. Whenever a man of God use his position to commit havoc, blame usually shift to d church, not because d church encourage such practice, nor is it because d church didnt condemn d practice but becos d church knws dat at some point she has to take responsibility, this is what d church apology is about, it doesnt mean d church ever taught and supported such crimes, instead d church since john paul 2 takes responsibility of d sins her membas committed as an act of goodwill.

Ubenedictus:
i agree wit italo. Whenever a man of God use his position to commit havoc, blame usually shift to d church, not because d church encourage such practice, nor is it because d church didnt condemn d practice but becos d church knws dat at some point she has to take responsibility, this is what d church apology is about, it doesnt mean d church ever taught and supported such crimes, instead d church since john paul 2 takes responsibility of d sins her membas committed as an act of goodwill.

for starters, again, and only for starters as quite a lot is wrong here, are you saying the church did not approve of, for example, galileo's treatment? what of all the witch hunts and executions carried out by the papal state? they were carried out by it but not approved by it? when the church whisks away a bishop to the vatican, one local authorities are looking at with regards to hiding pedos, who is responsible?

We have had to fight on this for centuries; do you think ladies have roles to play in pulpit ministry?
This blog will clarify all your doubts regarding this topic.
http://www.sujiandrewsblog.tk/2016/04/do-ladies-have-place-in-pulpit-ministry.html
Be blessed as you read in the name of our lord Jesus Christ!