Kay17:


How is it possible to know that the particulars information and functional complexity are hallmarks when there is lack of non designs whose lack of information and functional complexity would have clearly demonstrated the efficacy of your argument!

At the end of the day, we both have to realize that some of these functional complexity is organized by Nature and probably God is the ultimate conductor, but you must concede that Nature is indeed or at least an agent of the ultimate conductor.

Kay17:


How is it possible to know that the particulars information and functional complexity are hallmarks when there is lack of non designs whose lack of information and functional complexity would have clearly demonstrated the efficacy of your argument!

At the end of the day, we both have to realize that some of these functional complexity is organized by Nature and probably God is the ultimate conductor, but you must concede that Nature is indeed or at least an agent of the ultimate conductor.

texanomaly:


@the bolded
I thought you were an Atheist. Have I been wrong for the past 3 years?

UyiIredia:


Unguided nature on its own cannot make a pin talkless of any living thing but I would agree nature is the agent within and through which God designed living things.

Kay17:


So when PastorAIO said goats were a product of Nature, you seem to protest absolutely against it rather than stating your proviso -- guided Nature.

Weah96:


There is no guide anywhere. Who guides the hurricane and tsunami?

Kay17:


Loool! Humans aren't open books you know.

PastorAIO:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juracán

texanomaly:


Hmmm...nice to see you again.

Kay17:


So when PastorAIO said goats were a product of Nature, you seem to protest absolutely against it rather than stating your proviso -- guided Nature.

UyiIredia:


na ur style. thought-provoking. by the way about nothing. here's a passage i'd like to see your opinion of it

PastorAIO:


Do you think that there could be human beings that God didn't put too much intellectual effort when he was making them?

UyiIredia:


But this doesn't fly as one only needs to identify the hallmarks of design to know if a thing is designed. Information and functional complexity being 2 hallmarks of design.

plaetton:


.

Yeah , are there some things or people that CREATED but did not DESIGN ?
Perfect question that really needs an answer.

KingEbukasBlog:


UyiIredia gave the perfect answer

plaetton:

The mountain range has information, has functional complexity. Does it show hallmarks of design ?

texanomaly:

@the bolded I thought you were an Atheist. Have I been wrong for the past 3 years?

UyiIredia:


It has neither actually. This just goes to show how foolish you are.

UyiIredia:


Hi Tex, it's been a while what's up ?

texanomaly:

Not much. I don't want to derail this thread, so can you email me?

@ Op

I want to comment, but I am at work. I'll get there.

I do find the subject interesting, but I'm not sure We are there, scientifically, to fully answer this question yet. Someone said, "Be patient." I'm tempted to leave it at that, but when I have more time I'd like to address some specifics.

Thanks for bringing something interesting.

Kay17:
It could go both ways. Either with simplicity or complexity, that's why it's necessary for the Intelligent Design crowd to produce a non design for comparism.

Kay17:
It could go both ways. Either with simplicity or complexity, that's why it's necessary for the Intelligent Design crowd to produce a non design for comparism.

UyiIredia:


Google Douglas Axe and Ann Gauger. They both released ID research in peer-reviewed journals. Then again, I should say peer review doesn't make a theory true. Darwin's work wasn't peer reviewed was it.

DeepSight:


If we hold that all existence and reality (the universe) as we know it was caused by an Intelligent Designer, then it will surely be impossible to show anything that would not have hallmarks of design about it. Anything at all. It will therefore be a strange question to demand of an advocate of intelligent design, that he produces a thing that is not designed. This would be a contradiction similar to asking a person who believes that shapes are made by men, to produce a square circle. It's both an impossible and unreasonable request which Iredia should not have taken up at all, rather than begin to refer to water.

By the way, I no longer know whether its apt to refer to God as an "Intelligent Designer." Intelligence is something of the material sphere, and whatever attributes the Divine may have may probably not be described as intelligence in the way that we use the word.

PastorAIO:


What is the difference between complexity and Chaos?

Kay17:


Free jazz is probably the best demonstration.

Or a Pollack painting.

PastorAIO:


Free jazz is not a difference. A Difference is generally considered to be the variance between two objects. In other words what common attribute do they lack.

Kay17:


I actually meant both as examples of the question and difficult it is to decide. Especially with the varying perspectives.