I have been personally bothered by the Issue of "Another Comforter", as the Bible reported that Jesus promised his followers, the Disciples, as being meant to mean the"holy spirit," which the same Bible reported to have descended on this band of individuals, after the reported Biblical crucifixion of Jesus, and his actual ascension to heaven, alive, body and soul!

What had bothered me, though not that I am a christian, is the fact of saying that another must have to be a spirit and can never be human. Hence what I came up in order to accept this premise as truth, come what may or reject is as impossible is to know who the Former Comforter must be, before Jesus, son of Mary, a man born of woman, can promise his human companions an entity that will be unseen to teach them the things that Jesus did not teach them, because, according to Jesus, the Bible report stated that he considered these very same people not matured in the mind to take such statements from him.

This raised another question, as to how then could these immature minds be so ready in such a short time, less that a year after Jesus left their company, that they were matured in mind, enough that an unseen entity, the holy spirit will come to give them the lecture that just under a year before, Jesus felt that it will be like pouring water into a sift, the similitude of their retention, to this very time that they able to take in everything/all things, as promised by Jesus, from the holy spirit? How did they prepared themselves for this without the great teacher who thought earlier that they will flunk, to the point that they became ecellent students and carried forward what this ghostly spiritual entity told them? Did they hear the voice of the holy spirit as they heard the voice of Jesus? Did they see the holy spirit, in aphysical form as they saw Jesus? What doid the holy spirit tell them that abide with them, as promised by Jesus?


Finally who was the FORMER COMFORTER to complement the ANOTHER COMFORTER? It seems to me that both Former and Another must have the same nature and mesage and characteristics. Or am I incorrect here? Who was Jesus thinking or said was the Former Comforter? People of knowledge, espectially the Christians, it is your religious Book, it is your faith and your life depends on it, who was the former Comforter before you can say, without any doubt that the holy spirit was the another Comforter?

Please do not stray off topic! This is serius, people.

As I observed, my dialogue with Nezan, and then Sleek29 joined in, n this topic in anoter thread, I will post our responses below, in order to help move the dialogue forward. Please note the characteristic quality of the Another Comforter, from Gospel according to John.  Shall we not expect that the core value is what to expect of the Former Comforter, either existed before Jesus made that speech about the Another Comforter, or was existing and present on earth at that very moment? Sleek29 belived that the Former Comforter is Jesus! How is Jesus and not another entity, like Moses or another person or maybe one of disciples of Jesus?

If Sllek29 is right, how then according to him, is Another Comforter suddenly becomes a ghost/spirit being, while the Former Comforter is a human being with Blood flowing in his veins, and everything about him indicate that he is a human being? Is there a misread by Sleek29, or is this completely in line that a same nature and title entities could actually be so different that there is no room for comparisons? What do we do with the prophetic statement as uttered by Jesus, or was it an unfulfilled statement? You be the judge!


 

Re: When Did Allah Say The Bible Was Corrupted And How?
« #34 on: Yesterday at 02:10:39 PM »

@olabowale, you're wrong about something, the jews (judaism) don't even acknowledge Jesus as someone sent by God (whether God or prophet or son of God), some say he's just a teacher(rabbi), while some say he isn't, jews asked for Christ to be crucified, even today ask any practising jew he'll tell you exactly that, the torah is what a jew believes in, they killed Jesus because he called himself the messiah (of which he actually is), if a rabbi mentions the name Jesus its followed by(may his bones grind to dust), so tell me where is the original injeel and don't tell me its that crazy gospel of barnabas as its just plain concoction, so where is the bible allah claimed to have been corrupted .

olabowale

@Sleek29: Where do you live man? I have been playing with Jews for at least 24 years since I started by own business. Some of them take me as their own son, nephew, friend, and the young among my jewish friend as an Uncle or big brother. Larry Weinsteen is a Judge in Las vegas and he is like my nephew. Fred Braff the person who started BUM Equipment is like a father or a big uncle to me. Let me just stop there. I have been invited and had attended many of their annual gatherings. I have rabbi Friends in Boro parks and I have spend uncountable weekends in many summer homes owned by many Jews!

You have no idea of anything, so dont tell me anything about Jews! they do not take Jesus partially because they are stiff-necked and believed that there will not be a prophet except a massiah. Jesus did not fit the bill for them! They needed a Moses and not an Aaron! But them when they tried to kill him as they had killed many messengers, Allah saved him from the "death on a cross", because ther intention was they wanted to accurse his soul by letting him expired on the cross!

Jesus said he could not do anything out of his own power, which clearly tells us that he was a human and not God, for God is capable to do all things! I asked you for "former Comforter" before the "another Comforter" you are dancing around the fences! Man answer my two parter question! I have not even taking you to task from the Biblical, "I have many things to say, but you cant bear it, "! If you want a uman god, then defend him as a no idol! I think that you are an idolator by your having a god that is human and another that you call aspiritual "another comforter", with a wrong title as father that I think you call the "Creator!"


And as your Bible as a revelation, read the Quran, no where does the Bible stand as a revelation from Allah. What is stated however is that Torah was revealed to Musa. I am very confident that the Jewish Torah if compared with the Christian OT, they will have some differences! So we ask you, in reality which one is ORIGINAL and UNADULTERATED> Yet I know that the hands of the scribes have entered into the Torah! And we see that the New Testament the Injil of Jesus has been tampered with where some verses have been taking in or taking out at this or that time, as the wind blows in the religion fashion of Christendom! At one time there was nothing called Protestant and definitely King james Bible! Today it is a well known book, a VERSION, ifferent from Catholic Douwy Bible by at least 6 Books!


Are these not signs that before you have all these "versions" one different from the others, there must have been an "ORIGINAL!" Or are they all versions, considered "ORIGINAL" like KJV Original, and Dowy Version Original or American Standard Version ORIGINAL?

I am waiting for your answer. Good night in the maintime. You have acted like a gentleman.

sleek29

Jesus said,i'll send you another comforter,of course he was the first one, why can't you just learn to know about the Holy Spirit and know that He isn't different from Jesus, Jesus was a teacher,the Holy Spirit does the same. and let me put it to you jews are the most cunny people i know especially those in the US ask them what happened to the world trade centre, planes or bombs

 
olabowale

@Sleek29: « #36 on: Today at 07:10:20 AM »


Jesus said,i'll send you another comforter,of course he was the first one,
So a man spoke and he said he will send his "own kind" and do we then expect a cow, a lion, a tree, a genie, an angel, etc, or a man like him, having the same status ike him? The answer is very clear. We would be expecting a man and no other being! If Jesus came, we would expect no one except a man like him!

why can't you just learn to know about the Holy Spirit and know that He isn't different from Jesus,
How was Jesus the same as the normally invincible spirit? We normally do not see spirit. Jesus was seen throughout his lifetime. When he was talking about the another comforter, he was seen, made up of blesh and bones and blood covered up with skin. Whats the spirit like again? Yet we see that Muhammad was exactly like Jsus; Flesh an bones and blood covered up with skin! both are men, born of mankind. both were from Ibrahim (AS)! Let me stop here so that I can deal with the rest of your statement, below!

Jesus was a teacher,the Holy Spirit does the same.
And Muhammad was a teacher, too. What did the holy spirit teach again? What do you call his book now? We at least call what Allah gave Jesus Injil or you call it Gospel/Good news. Muhammad's revelation is called Quran, and his tutoria handset is called Ahadith/Sunnah. What is the holy spirit's book called?You are now cornered and must tell me before you can leave! And did the holy spirit abide with the Cristians or the disciples for ever? Where are te disciples exept dead, meaning for ever is never? Where is holy spirit, not here, meaning for ever is never? Two unfulfilled prophesies, if you wanna play hardball! We will come back to the abiding part later!

and let me put it to you jews are the most cunny people i know especially those in the US ask them what happened to the world trade centre, planes or bombs
Where do you live man? I live in Manhattan where what you are talking about happened! From ymy window, I was able to see everything as it was happening! You wanna tell me about Jews in America? I hubnub with them everyday! When I ead this type of confession, finally from a Christian, I wonder what each person is tinking in their souls/and theirhearts, except the societal pressure will not let them be tue to form!

Now, what happend? lol. So why are you a christian, still? I am sure you know that Jesus was a Jew or is this a new information to you? lol. I beg oo. Omo boy, you got a smile out of me! O je di imale and have a wonderful life. Afterall, 9ja is a good place to practice your religion, bar none.

noetic2what is olabs saying?

Nezan (m)

I wonder why olabs and co. are trying desperately to link mohammed to the bible.

The Holy Spirit can never be mohammed because of the following reasons:

John 14:16 — And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth.

The Comforter will be with these disciples forever. Jesus promised the Comforter would be with these disciples forever. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he wasn't born until over 500 years later - following the deaths of these disciples. He was born around 570 and died around 632 AD.



John 14:17 — But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you.

The Comforter lives with the disciples already now and will later be 'in' them. The Holy Spirit came to the disciples and indwelt them. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because first he wasn't around at the time when Jesus was speaking to his disciples nor second could he ever be in any of the disciples. The Greek word is 'en', and it means 'right inside'. Jesus is saying that the Comforter will be 'right inside' of the disciples.



John 14:26 — The Comforter is specifically described as the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is not a man. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he was never the Holy Spirit.



John 14:26 — The Comforter will be sent in Jesus' name. The Holy Spirit represented the Lord on earth. No Muslim believes that Muhammad was sent by God in Jesus name. Muhammad did not come in Jesus' name, as the apostle of Jesus, rather he came in his own name with his own questionable “revelations”.



John 14:26 — But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

The Comforter will teach these disciples and remind them of what Christ said to them. As the early Christians grew the Holy Spirit taught them. Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach these disciples, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what Christ said.



John 15:26 — When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

The Comforter would be sent to these disciples. These disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Muhammad was never sent to these disciples.



John 16:13 — But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth.

The Comforter will guide these disciples into all truth. These disciples (and others) grew in the knowledge of God through the revelations from the Holy Spirit. Muhammad never guided these disciples into any truth.



John 16:13 — He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

The Comforter will speak to these disciples. These disciples grew to know the leading of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they knew His voice. Muhammad never spoke to these disciples.



John 16:14 — He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

The Comforter will take from Jesus and make it known to the disciples. Muhammad never knew Jesus and never took from Jesus and made it known to anyone.

         The context of these passages shows clearly that Muhammad could not be the Comforter.  Jesus was not speaking of another person to come at a later date.  Jesus’ precious final words to His disciples were meant for them.  Jesus was not merely preaching a sermon to be analyzed and intellectually talked about through the centuries, rather, He was giving His the disciples with Him there His final commands, love, and encouragement.



Here's a question for you to consider: In Islamic theology, Muhammad rendered Jesus’ message fulfilled or ended because Muhammad brought God’s latest message to the people. Muhammad expected that true believers in God would accept Islam. Therefore, if Jesus was foretelling Muhammad, wouldn’t Jesus be prophesying that his ministry will be rendered void by the Paraclete? Read the context of the passages and decide.



         Further, to fulfill exactly what Jesus foretold concerning the Comforter and His relationship with the disciples, the New Testament records the fulfillment of the coming of the Holy Spirit and the disciples receiving Him.  The disciples received the Comforter - the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:3, 4.  The Comforter was now “in” the disciples and He remained “in” them from then on and taught them — just as Jesus had said He would.

olabowale:

I have been personally bothered by the Issue of "Another Comforter", as the Bible reported that Jesus promised his followers, the Disciples, as being meant to mean the"holy spirit," which the same Bible reported to have descended on this band of individuals, after the reported Biblical crucifixion of Jesus, and his actual ascension to heaven, alive, body and soul!

Alhaji sir and other passionate non-christians,

You must ask yourself this solemn question and be honest with yourself: Why do things of the bible, God & Jesus "bother" you so much?

@ Topic

Jesus was and is the first comforter.

@ olabs. . ,

that was one very long OP. . . .of course I did not read it.

so tell me. , what was it all about?

I know that you are a lazy bum. You should have been a mascot for "Bum Equpment" in its days! Its about Jesus, the Former Comforter and the unseen holy spirit that you are claiming to be the another comforter! What is it that do they have in common to make such a claim/assumption? And what did the spirit, an entity whose gender is not known taught as Jesus had prophesised, and how can this spirit be the "he" gender specific that Jesus spoke about?

All the Biblical verses are from Sleek29. But then I will use them to turn your world upside down, as time goes on! Watch! You will be forced to discribe the Former and the Another comforters' cumulative qualities and compare them!

olabowale:

I know that you are a lazy bum. You should have been a mascot for "Bum Equpment" in its days! Its about Jesus, the Former Comforter and the unseen holy spirit that you are claiming to be the another comforter! What is it that do they have in common to make such a claim/assumption? And what did the spirit, an entity whose gender is not known taught as Jesus had prophesised, and how can this spirit be the "he" gender specific that Jesus spoke about?

All the Biblical verses are from Sleek29. But then I will use them to turn your world upside down, as time goes on! Watch! You will be forced to discribe the Former and the Another comforters' cumulative qualities and compare them!

1. It is by the power of this comforter that Mary was able to conceive Jesus.

2. It was this comforter that arrived and strengthened Peter and the other apostles to preach the gospel, weeks after they saw Jesus crucified.

3. It is this comforter that testifies to 21st century believers that Jesus indeed died for us and lives today. This comforter reassures us that our names is in the book of life.

4. It is this comforter that brings to our understanding the things of God. For instance, He makes us understand that mohammed is a fraud and a false prophet and that allah is a local moon-god in arabia.

5. It is the power of this comforter living in a person that distinguishes them and makes such a christian.

and many more. . . any questions?

If you're female, i've got the best comfort available. . . Look unto Tudor, the authour and finisher of your faith. . .

Believing is a choice. Do you understand the meaning of a Spirit? The Holy Spirit being a comforter is one of His attributes. Until you know that this is a faith walk for believers(word doers) not unbelievers(critics) you'll continue to crank your head on things that are meaningless to you. Believing is seeing with God's kingdom if it drives your interest not mere critical reasoning of self, science, and religion.

Believing is a choice. Do you understand the meaning of a Spirit? The Holy Spirit being a comforter is one of His attributes. Until you know that this is a faith walk for believers(word doers) not unbelievers(critics) you'll continue to crank your head on things that are meaningless to you. Believing is seeing with God's kingdom if it drives your interest not mere critical reasoning of self, science, and religion.

JeSoul:


Alhaji sir and other passionate non-christians,

You must ask yourself this solemn question and be honest with yourself: Why do things of the bible, God & Jesus "bother" you so much?

i've gotten tired of asking that question . . . one would think if they genuinely believed their position to be true they'd simply consign christianity to the rubbish heap of history abi?

And they all ran away without saying anything meaningful. Davidlan, I took your advise. I dropped it exactly where you suggested it belongs.

@JeSoul: My Poet Laureate, I only hoped that we could get a lively dialogue going. Its different from what the Christians intended when they came like a cloud of locust bees to the Muslim "baby board!" When you give them an answer to their question, they say you are lying. But now we are simply making inquires to what is germaine to the whole foundation of christendom, and all I have is criticizm? Wow!

I hope you are well, anyhow? Religion is a touchy subject and Former Comforter is even a touchier sub-subject since its nature is now different and can not be easily reconciled with the holy spirit Another Comforter! Jesus the former all of a sudden spoke about the "He" a male gender, speaking and teaching, and reminding "holy ghost", an unseen and not audible entity! What did he teach and what did he say and what did he remind, etc of all the disciples and how does he abides forever that the Former Comforter does not abide and the clear Messenger and prophet who came 6 centuries later in the person of Muhammad (AS) does not abide forever when he is a s fresh in the minds and the hearts of the muslims of today as he was in the hearts and minds of those people who saw him, by the Quran given to him, by his Sunnah and ahadiths, and by his Sirah?

@ olabs

do u now know who the comforter is?

@Noetic: Comforter? There are two in the question, the former or the another. Which one are you refering here? The murky thing is that we do not know who the "Former Comforter" was, when Jesus was speaking about the future coming of the "Another Comforter!" Jesus did not say anything about "Former Comforter", but we know that where ever a "another" is mentioned, there is certainty that a "former" does exist!

So when "Another Comforter" is expected, with all the specificity of "His" characteristics, we expect the "Former Comforter" to have exactly the same nature, characteristics and specific qualities as Jesus gave us the mirror image in name, etc of the Former, in the way the Another is discribed!

The people who claim that the unseen and unheard and undiscribable, without form and genderless, etc, "Holy Spirit" is the "Another Comforter" will have to completely match this unseen being with the "Former Comforter" we do not know, unless you wanna claim, the "Former Comforter" is Jesus! And there will be your impossible to match project of two different entities; Jesus who was born of man, spoke audible words, taught and his speeches initially recorded as pure as can be, before the introduction of personal opinions of later time people, he ate, slept, was instructed to deliver messages from his Lord, etc, and contract that with "Holy Spirit!" I wanna see you make that effort!



Aburo, dont disappoint me. I know you can try to make a square 2(lenghtxbreadth) fits into a circular (pixradiussquared) opening having the same lenght of external skins!

@Noetic, Davidylan, et al: Since you are docking, let me force you on this subject: How many Holy Spirit(s) exist(s)? Please name them if its more tan one. And describe the nature of each named, in full or according to your best effort. And if you dont know, dont make things up just to act as if you are a pundit! There is no shame in not knowing everything!

It will be nice to see how two Holy spirits were sent to mankind, one being the former, while Jesus was talking about the another to come in the future after him, as titled "Another Comforter"! Some have argued that the former Holy spirit as titled "Former Comforter" when Jesus was talking about another Comforter was Jesus himself!

Now, you have to stand up with some backbones and defend your position; how is Jesus the Former Comforter (Spirit of Truth) and the Another Comforter (Spirit of Truth) suddenly take a formless form as a spirit, unseen, unheard, gender neutral, etc?

Was it not that the Another Comforter (Spirit of Truth) supposed to have the same nature as the Former Comforter (Spirit of Truth), who is male, by being "he", repeat what he heard exactly, without making things up on his own, teaching, instructing, reminding, say things Jesus have said, praising him as in the defense of his honor where they might have maligned or blasphamed, and telling them things to come and abiding with them for ever?

Did the holy spirit do that; repeated only what he heard and who heard his speech/voice, as Jesus did and was heard by those people who were his companions/disciples, since Jesus said I am unable to do things without God, what did the holy spirit teach, how did he abide with any group forever, since Jesus did no where else but only through his Gospel, and how did he defend Jesus honor or glorified him? What things Jesus did not teach or do that this holy spirit taught or did? Could the holy spirit have taught everything in just one afternoon event?


How has this benefitted all the generations of those who fit as believers according to the description of Jesus, for he must have given the criterion for belief and the other side will have to be disbelief? Who are this group of believers on earth now if any at all? What set if any from the Christians, since it is a later religion, different and separate from what Jesus himself practiced along with his followers? If it is within Judaism, what sect?

Comforter, none of the cross worshippers will give a comprehensive answer to this except manipulation, i have tried it with them, they are just goon, having their bible in their stinking armpit.
Bravo sir olabowale, we won't stop saying the truth

@Noetic: « #6 on: July 24, 2009, 08:30 PM »

1. It is by the power of this comforter that Mary was able to conceive Jesus.

The Former or the Another Comforter? lol.

2. It was this comforter that arrived and strengthened Peter and the other apostles to preach the gospel, weeks after they saw Jesus crucified.

Did this fit the prophetic statement of Jesus as he described the nature and the duties of the "another Comforter?" What did he teach? What did he hear? How did he praise Jesus and reminded them of his teaching? Did they quickly forget so soon, less than 3 months after Jesus left? Where did Jesus say that he will strenghten them so that they can preach? What new things did he teach?

3. It is this comforter that testifies to 21st century believers that Jesus indeed died for us and lives today. This comforter reassures us that our names is in the book of life.

Another lie if it is different from what Jesus said. Even the corrupted Bible is proving you as a super corrupted man.

4. It is this comforter that brings to our understanding the things of God. For instance, He makes us understand that mohammed is a fraud and a false prophet and that allah is a local moon-god in arabia.

Show it in your Bible. You should. No? Otherwise you are just a hot air!

5. It is the power of this comforter living in a person that distinguishes them and makes such a christian.

and many more. . . any questions?

Corollate that with the description of another Comforter by Jesus and tell me who is lying? And this above is your response that you have raved about? You got to dobetter!