@Funkybaby

I dont blame you jare my Sister

I can explain few things but its very detailed.

I wont be chanced to write that now and i wont be available to come here until next week thursday.

Londoncool and others can give you honest advice

Thanks

@ akolawole. Thanks a lot. No problem. I can wait till next thursday or anytime you are not too busy to explain everything to me in details. I'm glad you understand the fears and worries on this sister's mind. Thanks a lot once again.

@ funkybaby,
Sorry ma, I have multiple qestions to ask before we can move from here.

-What field of study is your boyfriend in?
-Must he be that desperate to get the citizenship?
-Is he aware that he can as well get the Indefinite leave to Remain after a period of years where he can show that hes very financially capable of staying in the UK?
-Is he at the moment "economically active" while still schooling in the UK?

I have seen cases of people entering the contract agreement thing only to loose it all at the end and that even includes loosing you too as well. Just joking!
In the real sense of it getting a british citizenship only boils down to the fact that he wants to have a recourse to public funds!
Just to tell you this no matter how much he tries to naturalize, he will always be seen as a second hand citizen.

So my candid advice is this, getting an indefinite leave to remain is a better option for him as he can enter and leave the UK at random if thats what he wants.

And the best way he can go about getting this, is if hes economically active in the UK for a minimum of five years, before it used to be four years but because of the stringent immigration rules it is now five years.

His best option therefore is to go on further for his masters degree program and as well get economically active in the process as this will add to his work experience and aid in his getting the Indefinite leave to remain in the UK.

From the little i know,i'm thinking of telling to apply for his masters as soon as he is through with his first degree. He should then work for another one year. With this calculation,i think he should be able to apply for 'right of abode' since he would have spent five years in the uk? Am i right in this regard?

You are very right ma, on that point which is very well his best option.

No need for a contract marriage at all!

I am very well aware that that British Citizenship, i mean the "Red Pali" can very well be bought. A couple of years ago, a friend of mine bought it for a certain amount of pounds sterling! I have no idea as to how much it goes for now or whether it is still feasible.

@ mrpataki
Thanks a lot for your time and advice.
To your questions:
-he's studying business administration. he already has another first degree from a nigerian polytechnic. I advised him to register with ACCA and to begin the ACCA professional exams as soon as he finishes his first degree-that will be around february next year.
-i told him the same thing about being too desperate for british citizenship.i was so mad and furious at him, Trust u guys-he calms he down,holds my hands,looks into my eyes and he tells me that 'he is doing it for us and our unborn kids', I melted o! So i guess i have no choice but to advise and support him in his 'quest' for the red pali.
-i am not sure if he is aware of the ILR cos he has never mentioned it to me.
-i guess what you mean by if hes 'economically active' is if he has been working whilst in UK. If that is what you mean, the answer is yes. He works during summer,winter,weekend,et al but he has not allowed it to affect his studies. He's doing brillantly well @ school.


yes! Red pali is still being bought. A friend of mine just last week told me about his friend that has paid an immigration lawyer about £20,000 to get it for him (this na true story o!). However,the person in question lived in Germany for some years with no criminal record and he is claiming to under serious family pressure in naija and does not want to come back. Anyway,the lawyer is helping him to 'package' and work out the whole 'runs'.

does the ILR gives one access to the 'red pali'? Does it apply to your wife and kids? Cos all my boyfriend wants to see is a permanent red passport and not some special visa.

He told me that he's coming back to naija to settle and has no plans of living forever in UK. The major thing he wants to 'acquire' before leaving britain is its citizenship!

@ mrpataki

Thanks a lot for your time and advice.
To your questions:
-he's studying business administration. he already has another first degree from a nigerian polytechnic. I advised him to register with ACCA and to begin the ACCA professional exams as soon as he finishes his first degree-that will be around february next year.
-i told him the same thing about being too desperate for british citizenship.i was so mad and furious at him, Trust u guys-he calms he down,holds my hands,looks into my eyes and he tells me that 'he is doing it for us and our unborn kids', I melted o! So i guess i have no choice but to advise and support him in his 'quest' for the red pali.
-i am not sure if he is aware of the ILR cos he has never mentioned it to me.
-i guess what you mean by if hes 'economically active' is if he has been working whilst in UK. If that is what you mean, the answer is yes. He works during summer,winter,weekend,et al but he has not allowed it to affect his studies. He's doing brillantly well @ school.


yes! Red pali is still being bought. A friend of mine just last week told me about his friend that has paid an immigration lawyer about £20,000 to get it for him (this na true story o!). However,the person in question lived in Germany for some years with no criminal record and he is claiming to under serious family pressure in naija and does not want to come back. Anyway,the lawyer is helping him to 'package' and work out the whole 'runs'.

does the ILR gives one access to the 'red pali'? Does it apply to your wife and kids? Cos all my boyfriend wants to see is a permanent red passport and not some special visa.

He told me that he's coming back to naija to settle and has no plans of living forever in UK. The major thing he wants to 'acquire' before leaving britain is its citizenship!

Gosh! Seems i clicked on 'reply' twice. I'm so sorry about that!

Ok, your guy really has a long way to learn of the UK thing.
First do let him know the best Visa he could get for now is the category D Visa which also is the long stay visa that includes the Student Visa he has at the moment.

Going for his ACCA is the best option i think he should go for. That gives him an additional two years of further stay in the UK, while at the same time he can work as well with it.

As well getting the ILR also affects all dependants that he puts on his passports that includes you and his children if eventually you guys get to settle down with eachother.

If hes doing brilliantly well in school that as well aids his chances of furthering his stay in the UK as his professors should show an interest in him most soonest, encouraging him to further his education possibly even more getting a grant with it as well.

If he intends to come back to Nigeria, then he must be very well prepared to stay in the UK for the next at least five years.

Calculate it as thus, if he goes into the contract agreement thing, he gets to spend the 2-3 years in that bondage, if hes finally sucessful, am not sure on the grounds of agreement he would intend to get into the contract either with the lady or the guy(na joke level oh! ), and there happens to be a breach of contract from the other party, he gets to loose pali, as well waste the number of years he has spent in the UK. While he could have spent that same number of years in getting the ILR for a surety.

If he has the money to throw away, he could try his luck in buying the pali thing, but that has a lot of factors attached to it seriously. I leave the rest for my Ogas to talk on better, they might have a better view to solving the problem.

Have a great day.

@ mrpataki

e seun gan! You have really done a lot of explaining. God bless you. The naughty boy is ready to stay in the UK for as long as 10yrs all in his bid to get the pali.

I need some little clarification.
-which do you think is best for him? MBA, MSC or ACCA? I doubt if he will be able to combine pursuing his masters degree and ACCA at the same whilst working as well. The university where he is currently studying his undergraduate degree offers all three (i just checked their postgraduate prospectus)
-how does he apply for the extension of his visa? His visa expirers next year february. Assuming he settles for either his masters or ACCA, does he have to come down to naija to renew it? when is the earliest time for him to apply for the extension of his visa? Like i mentioned earlier,he graduates in february 2008, the visa expires february 2008, postgraduate starts around january and september. I seriously do not want him having issues with the authorities concerning 'over-staying' beyond the period permitted.
-is ILR the same as the red pali or is it some special type of visa thats put on the green pali? If no,then whats the major difference between both of them? Cos you seem to suggest that they offer the same benefits. If this is so,then why are so many people including nigerians so hell bent on getting the red pali? Please clarify further on the ILR.

Thanks a lot once again.

There absolutely no way i can suggest,advice or allow him give anybody £20,000 all in the name of getting red pali. That kind deal no dey get receipt, besides its just too risky. That to me is no longer desperation - just plain stupidity and foolishness. I cant even tell him i know someone that knows someone that knows a lawyer that collects that sort of money to do that, The whole thing stinks of fraud!

@ Funkybaby,
I will try to expalain your questions to the best of my knowledge and experience can offer me at the moment.
-If my knowledge serves me well, doing his MSc, MBA, or ACCA depends on the duration set by the educational establishment. Most preferably going for his ACCA would suggest to me the better option as the least minimum duration he gets to do his ACCA (and its even more cheaper to do) is two years moreso he is presently in the UK.

-As to the extension of his Visa, the educational establishment will have to do that, so he has to contact his school who will help him out on that most schools have the international student help office where he can walk into and find the right advice to that.If there is actually a gap between when he finishes his undergraduate and and the time he intends to start his further degree, he should write to the school, they will be able to help him out. But it is better he starts to work towards that like 4-5 months before the expiration of the current visa on his passport. There is no need for him to come down to Nigeria to do that.

-The ILR(Indefinite Leave to Remain)also known as the settlement or permanent residency is a vital step to acquiring the nationality status in the UK. Getting the ILR means you longer have restrictions on your condition of stay in the UK. Which i guess is what he wants actually. To acquire this status in the UK you must have either of any of the following on your passports:

Work Permit for a period of 5 years minimum

HSMP for a period of 5 years minimum

Marriage visa for a period of 2 years minimum

Unmarried partner visa for a period of 2 years minimum

Business Categories visa for period of 5 years minimum

Ancestry visa for period of 5 years minimum

Writers, Composers and artists visa for period of 5 years minimum

Unlawful stay on any basis for period of 14 years minimum

Lawful stay on any basis for period of 10 years minimum

Taking a close look at his case, his best option is to opt for the Work Permit visa. going for the Marriage Visa is very very risky I must say. Even those who you enter into the marriage contract thing know what you want at the end of the day, and they are ready to rip you off it! Though they may seem to play along with you in the first place. Or he could decide to be in school for the next ten years of his life!

I think my Ogas can still offer more on the topic.

@ Mrpataki
i do not have the right words to thank you. All i can say is God will definately bless you.
From all you said,its best he trys to get the work permit visa?
-How does he go about this? Pls,i am a novice at all these UK immigration stuff. I'm asking all these questions cos by the time i see him at the end of the month,i want to be able to talk and argue with him intelligently. He's treating me as if i do not know anything more than 'visitor visa'. Recently,he has been concentrating on working from home on the internet. I guess theres no way he can get the work permit if all he wants to do is work at home.
-i guess work permits are renewed yearly, Right? What happens in cases where u lose ur job and the present permit has expired?
-with the work permit on his passport,and assuming he still goes ahead with the ACCA, will he need a student visa for that as well? Thanks a lot.

I just checked his university's postgraduate prospectus. ACCA is offered as 2-3 years part-time course of study, I doubt if my boyfriend knows half of the things you have explained here. Whosoever sank that 'contract marriage' thing into his head should be hanged. I'm so pissed!!

I just checked his university's postgraduate prospectus. ACCA is offered as 2-3 years part-time course of study, I doubt if my boyfriend knows half of the things you have explained here. Whosoever sank that 'contract marriage' thing into his head should be hanged. I'm so pissed!!

@ funkbaby,
Getting a work permit visa, i must say there are intricasies involved with it, which i may not even be able to explain in full comprehensible details here. If my other Ogas can help out it would be great.

Changing your immigration status in the UK which is also known as Switching in most cases is not an easy task at all in the UK, infact in most cases it is not even allowed as the rules for a work permit are made to favor their EEA national. I guess Akolawole, londoncool and the rest could help out in details here if he decides to switch his status in the UK. But it is best he goes on to futher his studies at the moment.

Pissed for why?
The poor guy had to look for the supposedly easy way out. He just trying to create better future for both of you.

I guess with prayers the immigration requirements could become less stringent and with time he would be able to switch his status easily. I have cases of people like that who are also wishing to change their status at the moment, but it keeps getting increasingly difficult to do.

@ mrpataki

thanks a lot. thanks for your time. I'm still pissed at him though, I'm asking all these questions so that in his later years in the UK, he wont get stuck and have problems switching. i still have more questions to ask but i'll let you take a break for now,

@ londoncool
please,do you have any advice or suggestions to give on the issues i have raised so far or do you have anything to add to what mrpataki has said so far? Thanks.

@ akolawole
i'm waiting for your own contributions. You've asked me to wait till thursday , No probs!

Any other person that has something SERIOUS to say about the issues raised should please do so.

Cheers

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a work permit visa.
The process of being allowed to work in the UK on the basis of a work permit
is two-fold.

First you have to get a work permit. You can't apply for this. The company you are
working for is the one that sponsors you and makes an application on your behalf.
And it is not all and any work that you will be granted a work permit for, so if your
boyfriend works in Mac Ds then there is practically no chance but if he is in a specialist engineering
field then he probably has a good chance. Similarly the medical field except nursing.

If he is lucky to get the work permit then he has to apply for a UKRP(United Kingdom Residence Permit) or return
to Nigeria and get an Entry Clearance it is this which gives him the right to live and work in the UK, not the work permit per se.

That is the process in a nutshell. There are other issues to consider which unfortunatly I do not have the time to regurgitate here. But
if you wish to find out more, then apart from this forum I suggest you visit WWW.WPUK.ORG.UK and WWW.HOMEOFFICE.GOV.UK/IMMIGRATION.

Good Luck.

Thanks Vor for the correction!
Been a while now.

Really there is nothing like a work permit visa. My mistake.
As well if hes in the shortage occupation bracket, he stands a very good chance to get the work permit.

VOR:


First you have to get a work permit. You can't apply for this. The company you are
working for is the one that sponsors you and makes an application on your behalf.
And it is not all and any work that you will be granted a work permit for, so if your
boyfriend works in Mac Ds then there is practically no chance but if he is in a specialist engineering
field then he probably has a good chance. Similarly the medical field except nursing. 

No sir, in the shortage occupation, we have the Midwives included, under nurses

@ VOR
Thanks a lot for clarifying further. I will read up the info on the websites you included in your post. But please,please,please kindly tell me the other issues to be considered. I know you might be busy but please take out time to kindly explain the whole thing.

I doubt if my boyfriend's profession falls under the 'shortage occupation' category. He's studying Business Administration and if you ask me,it is one of the 'over-populated' professions. Thanks a lot once again.

@ mrpataki
thanks a lot for your time and following up the thread.

Funky the "other issues" relate mainly to his current status in the UK etc. How much longer does he have to study
and exactly which kind of employment wll he be seeking which will enhance his chances of getting a work permit.

May I also add that you are totally right in what you say about paying for a passport. You can be sure that if he goes along
this route at some point in the future he will be caught out. Trust me I have seen it happen.

More info here: www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/

@ VOR
Ok then. He is presently in UK with a 3years student's visa that expires next year february. With all the stuff i am reading,i'll definately encourage him to get a job with a top british firm. So i guess he has two major options now-work permit (valid for one year) or another student visa via ACCA (valid for 3yrs). Please VOR,which do you advice he pursues? Pls,do not forget while making your recommendation that my boyfriend's major aim is getting british citizenship at the most guaranteed method and shortest time possible. Thanks a lot. God bless you.

funkybaby:

@ VOR
Ok then. He is presently in UK with a 3years student's visa that expires next year february. With all the stuff i am reading,i'll definately encourage him to get a job with a top british firm. So i guess he has two major options now-work permit (valid for one year) or another student visa via ACCA (valid for 3yrs). Please VOR,which do you advice he pursues? Please,do not forget while making your recommendation that my boyfriend's major aim is getting british citizenship at the most guaranteed method and shortest time possible. Thanks a lot. God bless you.

In order to qualify for British Citizenship your boyfriend must already have qualified for ILR(INDEFINITE LEAVE TO REMAIN).He can qualify for this after having lived in the UK for 10 years continuously(legally) or 5 years with a WP. By next year he would only have spent 3 years in the UK so he would have to string out his studies for a further 7 years in order to qualify.

The WP option is also fraught with difficulty. What is the guarantee he will be offered such a job you have described within one year when his student visa expires. WP are normally only granted once the job has been advertised openly and if the foreigner offered the job has a particular skill or ability that is not ordinarily available in the UK.

Your bf has seen the difficulties in going down the above two routes and has figured that the easiest and quickest way forward is to contract a marriage of convenience with either a British national or an EU citizen. This way if (sometimes it can be a big if) all goes according to plan he will obtain his ILR in two years and then be in pole position to obtain his citizenship within 6 years of that.

I really wouldn't want to say one way or the other how he is to proceed. Ultimately it is up to him.

@ VOR

Thank you so much. I understand the whole process now. No wonder there are so many people stuck in UK and moving around with expired visas. The laws are really too strict. Why should people LIVING LEGALLY in the UK have to wait for 10years to qualify for ILR, its crazy!

Please,i have another question, Please explain 'Right of Abode'. Is it similar to ILR? My boyfriend told me that another alternative to the contract marriage is if he stays in UK for 5years, he can then qualify for Right of Abode and he said it is a big step to getting the British Citizenship. How true is this?

I guess you know a little about HSMP. I guess you also know that the rules have been reviewed, so it kinda favours people of a certain age category. Anyway,i did the online assessment and i scored 5points short of the required 75points. ie. I scored 70 points. What lowered my score was the salary i claimed i earned per annum. I should get a good job soon by next month, so that should bring my points to 75, if not higher. Please,what are an individual's chances regarding HSMP applications? I think i should work towards getting my own ILR. That way,my boyfriend can get his so much sought after British Citizenship through me and not through any contract marriage. I'm also contemplating of putting in for my Masters this September. I studied Estate Management.I'll probably go for MSc Project Management.Does this profession fall under the 'shortage occupation'?

I'm asking all these questions because i do not want my boyfriend to have immigration issues later when we get married. Immigration/Status issues are very important factors can could mar any marriage or relationship, so i want to start learning how i am going to cross that bridge. I have family and friends that are stuck in UK and i do not fancy the life they are living and i really do not that to happen to my boyfriend. There's nothing like been able to come in and out of UK to naija anytime one wishes to.

Thanks a lot.

@ akolawole, londoncool,Funkybaby and mrpataki

Thank you so much for you suggestion on my case.

first let me clarify issues on being desperate of getting the visa

i am not desperate because i am a graduate in nigeria here and i have been working for the past 3 years but the problem is these HND and bsc disparity.

i also believe its a rear opportunity to see a genuie sponsor who is based at home and ready to sponsor my education in the uk.

the AIT customer service reply the e mail i sent them and they said the judge sat on my case on the 21st nov. 2006 but the full determination has not been released.

Akolawole baba, i will appreciate if you can help me with the letter, as i will not like to lose the opportunity.

thank you all.

@ Muyiwabank,
In the meanwhile i will suggest that you send an email to your school in the UK, attach the letter you got via email from AIT now, state your plight to your school and request for a further extension of your arrival, as there is no way you can get to resume to school on the 15th of January.

Wish you all the best anyways.

@mrpataki

Thank you so much, for the response, a friend told me that today and i itend to do that by monday.

anyway my dept. in the school will do their registration on the 18th.

i will do what you just said but what about AIT, should i let them be?

@funkybaby

i think i could get sum help here, I applied for students visa in 2005 for a 4-year programme at the university of wales, & was refused entry on the grounds that i did not show "origin of funds" but was given a right of appeal.

I sent my filled appeal form within the stipulated 28 days period around september 2005, but my appeal dint get to the AIT untill april, after series of pressure from me & the AIT to the BDHC, all on paper.

My judgement came out in August 2006 & the judgement stated "appeal must be allowed", I waited for a call-up from the BDHC 7 it did not come untill October 19,2006, to come pick up my visa

I got there and presented a current offer of admission which had lapsed by 2days, even after the 3 weeks grace given by the school, I was refused on this ground for an "allowed appeal", although no extra stamp was placed on my passport, but we came to no reasonable conclusion, except that i was asked to come bac whenevr i had a valid offer letter, which means sept,2007 plus no defferment of offer which is peculiar to that school meaning i'd have to re-apply again.

Now, i'm aware that appeals are only valid for one year, dun't know how true, but what do u advice i do so that i don't lose the present judgement?

F6 try to find a school that has a february start, not any expert of any sort sha!

In order to qualify for British Citizenship your boyfriend must already have qualified for ILR(INDEFINITE LEAVE TO REMAIN).He can qualify for this after having lived in the UK for 10 years continuously(legally) or 5 years with a WP. By next year he would only have spent 3 years in the UK so he would have to string out his studies for a further 7 years in order to qualify.

In other words he is buying the red "kpali"passport some-how

3year degree- about £24,000 
1-2yrs masters- 15,000

na wa o no wonder they say people don't want to go back to their country
the same mr pataki saying the student visa is a scam hmm wonders shall never end

@ f6
the first and major mistake is that you should have bombarded BHC with visits,calls,faxes and emails stating the outcome of the appeal as well as the judge's written judgement. They are to call you 28days after the appeal decision.ie.if they do not appeal against the decision of the immigration judge. Do you think they were not aware of the time limit on your admission? Why should the fools call you two days after the expiration of your offer My boyfriend (yes,the same guy after the british passport, Lol) had similar issues when he applied for his student visa. He got denied,won the appeal and had he not bombarded BHC with calls and visits,he would have missed the admission, na God help am. What i can say is that BHC has boxed you in a corner and they have every legal right to refuse you the visa since you no longer have a valid university admission letter. I advice you e-mail University of Wales. Explain EVERYTHING in details to them. I guess you must have been assigned to an admission officer. Plead with them for a special consideration to your case. Tell them how much you love their school and you really want to study there. Just plead with them and narrate how ECOs refuse applications here. With God on your side,you might just be lucky. I'm not sure if the appeal judgement will be valid till september cos you appealed for an entry clearance for february resumption date and not september. You might have to call the AIT to confirm that or ask from a seasoned immigration lawyer. Dont waste your time searching for another school. You can only use the appeal judgement/visa for the university you originally applied to study. I know how you feel at the moment, they are trying to cheat you from something you've prayed for and worked hard towards for over one year. Just do as i advised and keep the house posted, Best of Luck!

@ loverbwoy
na you know o! you think say £25,000 for school fees na small money? call it buying pali or anything, na you know. The fact remains is that he is getting good,quality education which makes him a better person and still gives him a wide edge over his counterparts in naija, Pali or no pali.

@muyiwabank
i'm so sorry for labelling you a 'desperado'. I hope i'm forgiven. Do not relent in calling the AIT. You ought to have gotten the judgement by now, guess the delay might be due to the christmas/new year hols. Calls the AIT say wednesday next week or friday. I called them yesterday regarding my sister's determination,i was asked to call back next week. Do as mrpataki advised. Keep your school informed of everything thats happening and ask them for an extension. Most importantly, pray and talk to God about it, He's the Ultimate Adviser. Best of luck!

@funkybaby

i dont get offended easily i just tried to explained myself, im not annoyed at all, so there is nothing to forgive.

i appreciate your contribution and that of the whole house, i will do what you guys said i should do and keep the house posted on the outcome.

thank you and God bless you all

@ funkybaby

Thanks for the advice, I agree i made a big mistake chillin & not bombarding them, I did mail them doe, but i was asked to wait for a while, which sounded like, 'take it easy, u'll get it", u know & in the end , Anyway, i got bac to the AIT & the Home Office & i was asked to write to the UK VISA POLICY SECTION, i'v done that too,

& asper the admission,it was originally for sept 05, but due to the refusal, i immediately applied to the school for another offer, which i got again for sept 06 & the BDHC knew and decided to call me 19 OCT 06, 2 days after my extension of arrival from the school had expired(17 Oct)to be precise, & u know the 2 sad things here,the school doesn't do defferment, which means i have to keep re-applying & the school only has sept. resumption for undergrads,