lets take for instance you showed some of your web jobs to someone and the person tells you,  "Hey you use template right ?" and you respond nope, all that are from scrash you answered,  my question is does that make you professional or will i say does that add credit to what you can do?? again i was just around somewhere and i was just listening to two people talking about web design and the lady was like you see in my company, am the Head of IT and i just told them i design website instead of them giving it out i do and we can actually make this as a business and the lady went on and on. so the the next party ask what tools do you use and the lady responded tools?? well i just look for a template and add up text but am learning front page but i use my credit card to pay for domain and hosting thats what i do.

The guy ask again how much do you charge? well the lady responded from 100k.  i was like chie! should i give this guys my card or what? well i just ignored both of them.

This two things happen today, what i want to know is does that make her a website designer too?

b4 i proceed, letz take a look at what I wrote on this template thingy about a year ago:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-149270.0.html

Dis template stuff don tire me.  It is basically a product of "aburo yemi" mentality where, just because yemi woke up one morning to say templates are bad, automatically, everybody born after yemi is made to feel that using templates is a bad thing.  Do we realize that this very forum is a template of an original smf?  The computer we will use to browse this site, do we realize that it is based on a template developed years ago?  If you pretty much design/develop the same kinds of websites like I do, do you realize that except for the interface, the underlying code is the same? What about you as a human being? I bet you didn't know that you are based on, yes, a template (we have unique features, yes, but by and large, we all share similar characteristics).

There is nothing wrong in using a template per se. At least the lady has even tried to confess as much.  It cuts down on development time for one.  Of course the client's site won't be unique which is something I would strongly advocate for, but again, if the client has no problem with it and is willing to dole out 100K, who are we to put sand in someone's garri?  Don't get me wrong, it is a good time to take advantage and offer your Unique Selling Point (USP) but do so in a professional manner, as opposed to, "template is bad".  Show that you have a better alternative.

I am working with a client right now who actually went ahead, "to save money" to buy a template off of template monster.  From the design to the underlying code (it uses nested tables), it sucks big time.  TO make matters worse, the client didn't buy the unique version which means that another company could use the very same template for their site featuring similar products.  I brought this up to the client but he insists that that is what he wants.  Again, at least I told him what he is getting into.

Using a template doesn't make anyone any less of a professional.  That's just me.

well ya-wa we've known for years now and we learn every second, you know i hate hearing [b]TEMPLATE [/b]because of the picture alotta peeps paint. it's really sucking to me man when i hear it! asif you don't know anyfin that's just me oooo.

well, to further explain myself:

Use of template isn't what is bad, IMHO but how you use it. Do you just copy and paste or do you modify it to meet your needs?

Again, let's take my next client. I am using a template monster template with series of indented tables. I could have used it as-is but as I stated, it sucks. Here is what I will be doing to make it unique, sort of:

1) Clear out the content area tables and replace them with divs
2) Replace the image nav items with text (this will involved using photoshop to recreate the background images
3) Move all styles to a css file
4) Group all tables with similar attributes together so I can create a class in my stylesheet for them.
5) Replace the header image and logo with the client's.

Again, use of a template isn't inherently bad. It's what you do with/to it that may be.

yawa-ti-de:

b4 i proceed, letz take a look at what I wrote on this template thingy about a year ago:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-149270.0.html

Dis template stuff don tire me.  It is basically a product of "aburo yemi" mentality where, just because yemi woke up one morning to say templates are bad, automatically, everybody born after yemi is made to feel that using templates is a bad thing.  Do we realize that this very forum is a template of an original smf?  The computer we will use to browse this site, do we realize that it is based on a template developed years ago?  If you pretty much design/develop the same kinds of websites like I do, do you realize that except for the interface, the underlying code is the same? What about you as a human being? I bet you didn't know that you are based on, yes, a template (we have unique features, yes, but by and large, we all share similar characteristics).

I have maintained this position since the issue of templates starting coming up on this forum. The problem is people don't want to invest time to learn anything and whatever they hear people saying they agree once that thing makes them look good or makes them sound knowledgeable.

CNN, Google, Yahoo, this forum, some of my websites, in fact any successful website around in the world is built based on a template.

Whether you buy or you build one from scratch as I always do the end product is the same in terms of ease of addition, updates etc, the only thing that will differ is the design, feel, functionality, usefulness of the website.

Maybe some of us need to take a break once in a while to read up on things we are not too clear about instead of believing anything that catches our fancy.

Hello smartsoft,

Long time no see or chat! Hope you are doing so well running website designing business!

I am 100% agreed with the posters, yawa-ti-de and afam said it all correctly!

Now in the USA/UK in the IT agencies now change their minds wanting to use any kinds of templates such as Wordpress, Joomla, Blogger, phpbb, smf, OsCommerce, Zencart, etc. that comes with adds-on modules/plugins/extensions feature.

Because of ease of addition, modification, and subtraction to feel attractive, functionality, and consistency using template designing. There are hundreds of e-books, tutorials, and video "how-to" template customizations out there.

It is HOTTEST TEMPLATES in the market right now!!! Now Web 2.0 templates already release new marketing already!

I agreed with yawa-ti-de using template to be modified to meet client's site needs upon their satisfactory.

uspry1

Quote me wrong, there is different between "you use a template" [/b]and [b]"wow nice web template" nice web template can be translated to nice web layout, but you use a template. hum mm no offense but i personal my interpretation to that is just mere laziness just download template and re-use it i didn't learn with that, i only learnt the hard way! and its has been working for me ever since. so you guys don't blame me

@smartsoft,

There are different type of people who make choices to choose using template or building website from scratch depend on their budget constrict to be afforded with.

If someone ask you a question, "Are you using template?", there is nothing wrong to set straightforward answering this question if I was in your shoe. Simply answer in a professional matter, "no, i don't use template, I don't like it very much, i rather to build website from scratch. This is my forte. If you prefer using template, then i suggest you to find someone else, not me! Thank you for asking me your question!"

If someone give you a compliment saying, "Wow what a nice web template you use". Simply answer, "thank you for compliment about my website!" Obviously this person recognizes what type of website you design without criticism or complaint.

That's it!

All templates use PHP, stylesheet CSS, HTML even embedded Flash movie (.swf) or video files or sliced images loading that you can change fitting your own taste of visual designing as functionality once purchase it.

talking about the budget baby, Okay let me just hint you got orders from some of this web guys and well known web company in Nigeria, sometimes they just want me to give them an interface and a sub-page. now i call that my template that means they are using a template which i created. not asif they don't have much to pay.

@uspry
I suggest that you kindly get a new converter or perhaps a new keyboard

remoranger:

@uspry
I suggest that you kindly get a new converter or perhaps a new keyboard

@remoranger I don't get it why should i get either new converter or keyboard. I don't live in Nigeria at all. Are you just kidding me around or what?

I am non-African who loves helping out Nigerians on Nairaland.com since 2006, did i offend you or what?

remoranger:

@uspry
I suggest that you kindly get a new converter or perhaps a new keyboard

What's the essence of this? Why not stick to the topic if you must respond to the thread?

@remoranger

You seem not to understand the topic or don't know what to say. I'd rather prefer to keep reading and replace your keyboard with a glass of water.

@uspry

My previous post was just a nice and politically correct way to tell you this,

If you are not fluent in a language, get some proper tools to help you communicate with it, or better still DONT BOTHER COMMUNICATING.

I cant make head or tail of your posts. just reading thru it gives me a terrible headache,
I cant imagine my self posting in a SPANISH forum and if i should be so air headed to do so, if someone offers advice i will take it in good faith and not make it personal

@ominipotens
i suggest you kindly swallow some otapiapia with that glass of water you offered me,

Y cant the bloody Hell someone posts his opinion without drawing THE MEAN IN YOU GUYS?

ota pia pia? kia! dem still dey make am? Wat of conquer mixture and mist alba? he he

@yawa

No mind all these our naija brodas. I am CERTAIN that if you go to a foreign forum such as smashing magazine forum to post as though you cat got upset with your keyboard (no matter your GOOD intentions), you would find your ass out on the cold highways of the internet.

But trust naija now. anything for the OYIBO master. Why not acknowledge a spade as a spade? even if you dont have the COURAGE to call its name out loud?

i think we developers tend to restrict ourselves to some beliefs. especially when we read a couple of articles saying YES to these beliefs.
we should instead understand why those people who wrote those article made such conclusions and then check if it applies to us.
same way we make up our minds while programming, u know! you decide how u want everything to be.

I use templates, especially when i dont have the time in the world.
that does not mean i cant build something even better than the template.


@poster, dont let ppl's views bother you. just do ur thing.

You get mouth webdezzi!!

Using templates downloaded is perfectly fine. Nothing wrong in my opinion.

However, what quite a large number of people do is remove the information about the person that created the template. Be it as commented information in the header.ext, footer.ext or other file like that, as page footer notes that everyone can see. It is proper to give credit to the maker of the template.

There are bazillions  of templates free online. If the template that was used is not a popular template, how can the owner of the site go about searching online if the developer downloaded the template or created the template. I guess this is why some people that download and use template dont say anything that it was a downloaded template and they can charge as much as they want for little work done.

Assuming I use templates I download for web dev works, and you feel I am not a developer.
Would it be correct if I say, people that use javascript framework jquery, php framework etc for their works are not programmers? They can also write from scratch all the functions they need before they can be called programmers.

But in regards to the lady in your original post, personally speaking based on the little information you provided, she is absolutely not a web developer. In my opinion, I would say, if you ask a real web developer this type of question, and they say it is ok to use downloaded templates and he/she is a developer. This would be because the developer you asked knows his/her ability and is not worried about what you think of him/her.

It is an easy way out of putting pages together.
Downloading templates can potentially present a more appealing look for a website than what would be created from scratch.
Reduces time need to get more work done = more cash in hand.

It is ok.

Like now my boss asked me to find a company to build our website, i was like no need I will do it myself. He was like sure, easy thing no sweat. And he said ok.

I was thinking of creating the CMS from scratch. eh ehe h I like my work. But based on his requirements, he needs it fast which is the most important. Me doing from scratch would take time. So now I am opting for wordpress + a template I find online + livezilla (CS CMS)

It all depends on requirements and tools available. Each person knows what he or she can do that is what is most important

Cactus:

Downloading templates can potentially present a more appealing look for a website than what would be created from scratch.

Well i stand to be corrected i totally i disagree with you here, those guys who did template that you are downloading, aren't they human beings or are you saying that are machines well in fact we can make a deal. let me design one for you and start paying me lol but serious i don't agree with you on that! practically you saying you not good at what you do then! mind no one is perfect o

oya smartsoft, state ur case. don't just disagree

Well, it just me Ya-wa no case here i just disagree

The people that designed the templates are people just like us. Some people are more creative than others.

It is not every time you will have great concept to design. Probably you may have to look at other websites for inspiration. Just like some writers get writer's block. Similar.

You may be familiar with CSS Galleries. Collections of nice website design. If you go through one of the sites like. look at http://www.csselite.com/

If you can tell me you can come up with all those design ideas by yourself without looking at sample works. Good for you. This is just my opinion.

This is not a matter of being good or bad. The truth is, regardless of what we do, there will always be people better than each of us. There will be always be people more creative than each of us. That is life.

Just get a template copy and paste does not make a web designer. You are a template users or better still "customizer".

A web designer should be able to come up with his own concept (you can borrow idea though). Borrowing idea is not the same as altering a web desingers code!

For professional ethic, if you get a template then copy and paste, you should not charge more than the number of hours it took to do such. If you charge N1000/hr be sure to stick to that.

For a programmer, yes you can use jquery and the likes to develop a solution. These are not template, they are API or code library for you to develop solution with. They are not the same with Oscommerce, Drupal and the rest. When you use software like those, you are a customizer not a programmer. Programers develop software not customize.

As a conclusion, call your self programer when you can translate idea or problem to a working software. Not customize already made software.

You have jquery for example, it has functions, you use the functions in your web app. You can modify, adding and removing functions or use as is. Or you download already made modules for gallery, lightbox etc

You have a website you are building, there is a library of templates, you pick one and you use it. You can modify, by adding new things, removing or just use as is

What am I missing?

It all boils down to how much time you have to work or individual prefernce.
It is just that some people that use downloaded templates for clients may not be telling the clients.

IF YOU KNOW YOU ARE GOOD AND HAVE ALL THE TIME TO DESIGN A TEMPLATE THEN COME WORK WITH US INSTEAD OF PAYING TEMPLATE MONSTER WE PAY YOU THE $100. WE STILL HAVE SPACE IN THE OFFICE WE COULD WORK SOMTHING OUT BASE IT ON MONTHLY PAYMENTS.

JUST VISIT NABOS GROUP. NO1 CITY WORLD TRADE AND BUSINESS CENTER, DAWSON ROAD,BENIN TEL: 052290593, www.nabosgroup.com .NabTech WeBDesignerS www.nabtechonlineng.net 08074647151 . YAHOO ID. chrisnab242

Cactus:

The people that designed the templates are people just like us. Some people are more creative than others.

It is not every time you will have great concept to design. Probably you may have to look at other websites for inspiration. Just like some writers get writer's block. Similar.

You may be familiar with CSS Galleries. Collections of nice website design. If you go through one of the sites like. look at http://www.csselite.com/

If you can tell me you can come up with all those design ideas by yourself without looking at sample works. Good for you. This is just my opinion.

This is not a matter of being good or bad. The truth is, regardless of what we do, there will always be people better than each of us. There will be always be people more creative than each of us. That is life.

Now you talking,  you know Nigeria is always meticulous about all this stuff if you are to resume as a website designer, they will ask you can you design a website and you say yes, can you use FIREWORKS, PHOTOSHOP, they will put you up on system and you should do something,  i remember some years back guys that handle MTN website  i was in search of jobs and they called me and they put up on system to do something i started cooking up my design and i was staring at some ladies doing website who work there lol but at the end of the day my pay home was really much for a big company like that. my job is just interface Designer,  before that i showed them my web portfolio and they saw some jobs that they might have handle themselves before. overheard this guy pay will be high let just ask him how much he would like to EARN. in nutshell what am trying to say is that if you are to go for an interview, they won't ask you can u copy and paste a template, rather they will ask you can you design a website.

If you are the person they use TEMPLATE all the time, all your years is TEMPLATE then am afraid, the job won't be in your favor.

For professional ethic, if you get a template then copy and paste, you should not charge more than the number of hours it took to do such. If you charge N1000/hr be sure to stick to that.

Interesting. I would say let the free market forces determine that.

I think in the end, the nigerian factor plays a part here - we are big into titles and if aburo yemi had started off with a template, every single person after him would have been yelling at anyone doing it from scratch.

What do we say about a "customizer" who charges 100k!