There were no atheist human cultures on Earth. All human cultures modelled their spirituality on the physical world. Deities were ranked just like human beings are ranked. Nature worship, ancestor worship and etc also occur naturally in all human cultures. There was the use of spiritual energy which was usually regulated by the elite. The use of magic was acknowledged among the Yoruba for instance and regulated by the Awo.

I encountered two Yoruba sayings yesterday that portrays the way our ancestors viewed the two fascistic and brutal practices of Christianity and Islam.

They are below
Aafa lo nsusuka, Olorun o ru eru
The Aafa (Muslim cleric) is the one that uses an osuka, God does not carry burdens on his head, so he does not need an Osuka.

The osuka is a folded piece of cloth used by the Yoruba to soften the pressure of any load they place on the head. The Gwari for instance do not use Osuka because they do not carry load on their heads. The turban won by a Muslim cleric resembles an osuka and this came as a surprise to the Yoruba as osukas were not for fashion but for carrying loads.

Another saying is 'Oju lo nkan aladura ti nja gbe gbadura nitori eti Olorun odi'.
Meaning 'The problem of the shouting prayer warrior of the Aladura church is impatience because God is not deaf'.

The above saying refers to the Christians or Onigbagbo or 'BELIEVERS' as the Yoruba call them for their mundane belief that Jesus' mother was a virgin and that Jesus is God. The onigbagbo, especially the pentecostal type common among the Yoruba, churches like the CAC, Celestial Church of Christ, C and S and lately the MFM and etc. All of whom perform acrobatics and shout at the top of their voices to pray to God. Fire!, Die! And etc are some of the themes. This also came as a shock to the original Yoruba because they never experienced such. No acrobatics or shouting on top of your voice when communing with the supernatural in the past. A diviner before divining will pray to God for clarity, elaborately asking God to make everything clear via the divination. One person can bless another person with the God given ase in him or her. If the ase is strong, the blessing will come to pass. People have been known to bring something to pass by proclaiming it. To the Yoruba, every creation of Olodumare is imbued with ase including plants, animals, rocks and etc. For a human being, it is assumed your ase is stronger when you are living a righteous life. So people will want to be blessed by someone they see as living uprightly and not by crooks.

Everything was done solemnly, without acrobatics or noisemaking. You do not need to open your mouth to pray as Christians and Muslims now say is necessary. God is inside you, knows your need, without you needing to say one word.

When our ancestors need something to happen, they make use of concentrated ase prepared by experts in form of incantations like ofo, ayajo, ogede, sometimes using instruments like gbetugbetu, olugbohun, mayehun and etc. So the fascistic and superficial practices seemed strange and even funny to them. Definitely if our government had been a continuum since say the 15th century without any break and with unity and a strong centralized command with proud leadership stretching from Lagos to Niger state and Westward to Togo, we might have had similar results with Japan. Some Japanese were converted to Christianity as well, but they were rounded up by the Japanese government in the 15th century and executed, so that national security will not be compromised. Japan had a strong and proud government which took charge, copied Europe and prospered against all odds. The foundation of the military was laid by Denmark. However, Ethiopia was also a nation with a proud, even if not as strong government, not colonised, but the nation did not aggressively modernise in thesame way as did Japan. Despite their Emperor Haile Selassie and all. Though I would say Japan was better placed during the post industrial revolution era while Ethiopia was a major player within their sphere in the pre industrial era.

I would still wager that the Yoruba were more likely to have turned out like Japan if they had united properly and maintained their culture, rejected spiritual fascism as did Japan and allied with an European power early in the 19th century. It was not impossible, as Japan did it.

It did not work out that way and we were colonised for like 60 years in the post industrial revolution era. Only Ethiopia was not colonised in Africa but on becoming independent, the Yoruba were eventually doing better than Ethiopians in all respects in the modern world until we got caught up in the intrigues of Nigeria and became redundant. The AG that emerged in the Western Nigeria was up to the task.

What we now need to do as Yoruba is to get our people in West Africa together to form a nation bigger than Ethiopia that will become the African role model. Ban spiritual fascism, apply our native intelligence, copy from Europe, China, North America and etc to solve our economic problems and start getting ahead.

Lawani after reading your write up
i couldnt understand you
are you saying religious activities withhold growth of a yoruba nation

Hagm0nd:
Lawani after reading your write up
i couldnt understand you
are you saying religious activities withhold growth of a yoruba nation

Not really but you can not have sustainable growth and development without settling the God question once and for all. I think that should be clear to all by now.

Ok now i understand
although most advanced countries in the world usually have a dominant religion either theistic or atheistic
but religion mostly affects the law and constitution of the state
what can serve as a buffer for foreign religion craze of yoruba is our culture,it is also the culture that determine the zeal people put to national development

lawani:


Not really but you can not have sustainable growth and development without settling the God question once and for all. I think that should be clear to all by now.

Hagm0nd:
Ok now i understand
although most advanced countries in the world usually have a dominant religion either theistic or atheistic
but religion mostly affects the law and constitution of the state
what can serve as a buffer for foreign religion craze of yoruba is our culture,it is also the culture that determine the zeal people put to national development

People practice different kinds of spiritualities. Some are fascistic while others are liberal. The Abrahamic spiritualities are fascistic with a sadistic and cruel concept of God unheard of in the past while others are liberal with a gentleman God. No spirituality can be classified as atheistic really.

My use of religion denotes generally belief
although budhism is agnostic
i think the worst form of religions on earth are the abrahamic religions
responsible for most religious death

lawani:


People practice different kinds of spiritualities. Some are fascistic while others are liberal. The Abrahamic spiritualities are fascistic with a sadistic and cruel concept of God unheard of in the past while others are liberal with a gentleman God. No spirituality can be classified as atheistic really.

Hagm0nd:
My use of religion denotes generally belief
although budhism is agnostic
i think the worst form of religions on earth are the abrahamic religions
responsible for most religious death

Buddhism is thesame as other original Earth practices. Their I ching divination system is thesame as our Ifa system, same number of combinations or odus. That they have no equivalent of Olodumare but pray to Buddha who is the incarnation of what Ifa calls Apeere or perfect example does not mean they are atheistic. In our theology, a human being will continue reincarnating until he or she becomes Apeere which is what Buddhism calls the stage of Nirvana.

That true have noticed a lot of similarity in yoruba religious philosophy and eastern religion
i actually budhism do not teach people to pray to budha
its just the same human flaw of hero worship
buhda told his followers to choose their own way

lawani:


Buddhism is thesame as other original Earth practices. Their I ching divination system is thesame as our Ifa system, same number of combinations or odus. That they have no equivalent of Olodumare but pray to Buddha who is the incarnation of what Ifa calls Apeere or perfect example does not mean they are atheistic. In our theology, a human being will continue reincarnating until he or she becomes Apeere which is what Buddhism calls the stage of Nirvana.

Hagm0nd:
That true have noticed a lot of similarity in yoruba religious philosophy and eastern religion
i actually budhism do not teach people to pray to budha
its just the same human flaw of hero worship
buhda told his followers to choose their own way

Buddha really was not a spiritual leader or even person in my opinion. He was a moral teacher but as he was the last recognised Buddha, he is the symbol of Buddhism.

So in what way do you think the religions of yoruba people can be used to effect positive changes in their mindset

lawani:


Buddha really was not a spiritual leader or even person in my opinion. He was a moral teacher but as he was the last recognised Buddha, he is the symbol of Buddhism.

Hagm0nd:
So in what way do you think the religions of yoruba people can be used to effect positive changes in their mindset

It is not a religion as it is not fascistic. An Aborisha can practice Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto and whatever. Even Christianity and Islam but Christianity and Islam want to wipe others out. then in Aborisha, there is no need for faith, no spreading of the gospel as all human cultures are respected and etc etc. it will return us to what Olodumare created us to be.

More like syncretism and seeing their deities in symbolism

lawani:


It is not a religion as it is not fascistic. An Aborisha can practice Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto and whatever. Even Christianity and Islam but Christianity and Islam want to wipe others out. then in Aborisha, there is no need for faith, no spreading of the gospel as all human cultures are respected and etc etc. it will return us to what Olodumare created us to be.

Hagm0nd:
More like syncretism and seeing their deities in symbolism

We believe trillions of irunmale exist and that Olodumare rules everything in Ogotun as the chair of a board of 401 irunmale. Everything to the tiniest speck of dust is to be worshipped.

Waoh such belief makes believers lead a non violent lives even to plants and animal
he ll also accord respect to his fellow man even if their beliefs differ
cool

lawani:


We believe trillions of irunmale exist and that Olodumare rules everything in Ogotun as the chair of a board of 401 irunmale. Everything to the tiniest speck of dust is to be worshipped.

Hagm0nd:
Waoh such belief makes believers lead a non violent lives even to plants and animal
he ll also accord respect to his fellow man even if their beliefs differ
cool

That was the liberal attitude that gradually converted our people almost completely to spiritual fascism. This is is why kudos must be given to the Hindus, Shintos and etc who used their sense and held their ground against evil.

I dont think so i think yorubas have the best way of keeping their culture we practise a sort of syncretism
most of the christians and moslem still infuse our atr in their beliefs

lawani:


That was the liberal attitude that gradually converted our people almost completely to spiritual fascism. This is is why kudos must be given to the Hindus, Shintos and etc who used their sense and held their ground against evil.

Hagm0nd:
I dont think so i think yorubas have the best way of keeping their culture we practise a sort of syncretism
most of the christians and moslem still infuse our atr in their beliefs

There is no fight in Aborisha practice, so we have many Muslim and Christian clerics who use the principles, perform the rituals to help people and etc. They are free to do whatever they like but an Awo using the name of Jehovah or Allah instead of Olodumare, adopting the fascism of those practices has derailed already. I dont know how it is possible to syncretise Aborisa practice with Abrahamic faiths. It is practically impossible. Jehovah or Alla is not Olodumare. The Almighty God is not a thug. The principal orisas are energies which have been incarnated severally and all have several manifestations or aspects.

I think those doing it know that the energies are potent but in the case of lukumi and santeria many of the deities are fused with catholic saints in a way to preserve the knowledge and rites of slaves in the new world

lawani:


There is no fight in Aborisha practice, so we have many Muslim and Christian clerics who use the principles, perform the rituals to help people and etc. They are free to do whatever they like but an Awo using the name of Jehovah or Allah instead of Olodumare, adopting the fascism of those practices has derailed already. I dont know how it is possible to syncretise Aborisa practice with Abrahamic faiths. It is practically impossible. Jehovah or Alla is not Olodumare. The Almighty God is not a thug. The principal orisas are energies which have been incarnated severally and all have several manifestations or aspects.

Hagm0nd:
I think those doing it know that the energies are potent but in the case of lukumi and santeria many of the deities are fused with catholic saints in a way to preserve the knowledge and rites of slaves in the new world

They can syncretise Saints with Orisa. For instance all men are Ogun, because it is a male energy. You may go further to say Buddha is Orunmila or Zoroaster is Orunmila. Alexander the Great is Ogun and etc etc. If the energy is very manifest in an individual, that individual is the orisa incarnate but no character is Olodumare in the Abrahamic faiths and etc.

So what explaination do you have for orunmila

lawani:


They can syncretise Saints with Orisa. For instance all men are Ogun, because it is a male energy. You may go further to say Buddha is Orunmila or Zoroaster is Orunmila. Alexander the Great is Ogun and etc etc. If the energy is very manifest in an individual, that individual is the orisa incarnate but no character is Olodumare in the Abrahamic faiths and etc.

Hagm0nd:
So what explaination do you have for orunmila

Actually I would say Ogun represents innovation that leads to prosperity, not actually war. Orunmila represents wisdom and concern for others.

lawani:
There were no atheist human cultures on Earth. All human cultures modelled their spirituality on the physical world. Deities were ranked just like human beings are ranked. Nature worship, ancestor worship and etc also occur naturally in all human cultures. There was the use of spiritual energy which was usually regulated by the elite. The use of magic was acknowledged among the Yoruba for instance and regulated by the Awo.

I encountered two Yoruba sayings yesterday that portrays the way our ancestors viewed the two fascistic and brutal practices of Christianity and Islam.

They are below
Aafa lo nsusuka, Olorun o ru eru
The Aafa (Muslim cleric) is the one that uses an osuka, God does not carry burdens on his head, so he does not need an Osuka.

The osuka is a folded piece of cloth used by the Yoruba to soften the pressure of any load they place on the head. The Gwari for instance do not use Osuka because they do not carry load on their heads. The turban won by a Muslim cleric resembles an osuka and this came as a surprise to the Yoruba as osukas were not for fashion but for carrying loads.

Another saying is 'Oju lo nkan aladura ti nja gbe gbadura nitori eti Olorun odi'.
Meaning 'The problem of the shouting prayer warrior of the Aladura church is impatience because God is not deaf'.

The above saying refers to the Christians or Onigbagbo or 'BELIEVERS' as the Yoruba call them for their mundane belief that Jesus' mother was a virgin and that Jesus is God. The onigbagbo, especially the pentecostal type common among the Yoruba, churches like the CAC, Celestial Church of Christ, C and S and lately the MFM and etc. All of whom perform acrobatics and shout at the top of their voices to pray to God. Fire!, Die! And etc are some of the themes. This also came as a shock to the original Yoruba because they never experienced such. No acrobatics or shouting on top of your voice when communing with the supernatural in the past. A diviner before divining will pray to God for clarity, elaborately asking God to make everything clear via the divination. One person can bless another person with the God given ase in him or her. If the ase is strong, the blessing will come to pass. People have been known to bring something to pass by proclaiming it. To the Yoruba, every creation of Olodumare is imbued with ase including plants, animals, rocks and etc. For a human being, it is assumed your ase is stronger when you are living a righteous life. So people will want to be blessed by someone they see as living uprightly and not by crooks.

Everything was done solemnly, without acrobatics or noisemaking. You do not need to open your mouth to pray as Christians and Muslims now say is necessary. God is inside you, knows your need, without you needing to say one word.

When our ancestors need something to happen, they make use of concentrated ase prepared by experts in form of incantations like ofo, ayajo, ogede, sometimes using instruments like gbetugbetu, olugbohun, mayehun and etc. So the fascistic and superficial practices seemed strange and even funny to them. Definitely if our government had been a continuum since say the 15th century without any break and with unity and a strong centralized command with proud leadership stretching from Lagos to Niger state and Westward to Togo, we might have had similar results with Japan. Some Japanese were converted to Christianity as well, but they were rounded up by the Japanese government in the 15th century and executed, so that national security will not be compromised. Japan had a strong and proud government which took charge, copied Europe and prospered against all odds. The foundation of the military was laid by Denmark. However, Ethiopia was also a nation with a proud, even if not as strong government, not colonised, but the nation did not aggressively modernise in thesame way as did Japan. Despite their Emperor Haile Selassie and all. Though I would say Japan was better placed during the post industrial revolution era while Ethiopia was a major player within their sphere in the pre industrial era.

I would still wager that the Yoruba were more likely to have turned out like Japan if they had united properly and maintained their culture, rejected spiritual fascism as did Japan and allied with an European power early in the 19th century. It was not impossible, as Japan did it.

It did not work out that way and we were colonised for like 60 years in the post industrial revolution era. Only Ethiopia was not colonised in Africa but on becoming independent, the Yoruba were eventually doing better than Ethiopians in all respects in the modern world until we got caught up in the intrigues of Nigeria and became redundant. The AG that emerged in the Western Nigeria was up to the task.

What we now need to do as Yoruba is to get our people in West Africa together to form a nation bigger than Ethiopia that will become the African role model. Ban spiritual fascism, apply our native intelligence, copy from Europe, China, North America and etc to solve our economic problems and start getting ahead.

I just wanna know what relation Ethiopia have with yoruba, igbo and biafra. I've never heard of these names before i join this forum. But it seems like every body knows some thing cuz when i search about Ethiopia, i can say i always get these words mentioned together. I need the answer

Ednite:


I just wanna know what relation Ethiopia have with yoruba, igbo and biafra. I've never heard of these names before i join this forum. But it seems like every body knows some thing cuz when i search about Ethiopia, i can say i always get these words mentioned together. I need the answer

No relationship except in today's global world. Apart from the fact that we Yoruba or Ife people see ourselves as the first human sedentary culture since the last worldwide one called Ife Oodaye was destroyed over ten thousand years ago. So we insist according to our theology that Ife Ooyelagbo is the mother to all subsequent sedentary cultures on Earth today.

But Egypt is seen as most prominent of the old cultures despite that Ethiopia is believed to be older. We Ife people, the Yoruba see ourselves as the oldest though we have no pyramids of Egypt or churches carved in stone of Ethiopia to show for it.

lawani:


No relationship except in today's global world. Apart from the fact that we Yoruba or Ife people see ourselves as the first human sedentary culture since the last worldwide one called Ife Oodaye was destroyed over ten thousand years ago. So we insist according to our theology that Ife Ooyelagbo is the mother to all subsequent sedentary cultures on Earth today.

But Egypt is seen as most prominent of the old cultures despite that Ethiopia is believed to be older. We Ife people, the Yoruba see ourselves as the oldest though we have no pyramids of Egypt or churches carved in stone of Ethiopia to show for it.

Wow, thanks

Hagm0nd:
More like syncretism and seeing their deities in symbolism

yes this is one way aborisha can be practiced