truthmans2012:


Don't say God, say allah as I have proven to you from Quran 109:1-6 that allah is not Yahweh. Yahweh was the God the Israelites were having dealings. Muhammad's allah, his fathers' idol surfaced as Muslims God centuries after Jesus had come and gone.

You haven't proven anything. Instead you've just displayed a willfulness to remain ignorant. Let me ask you something then. What do you think "God" is in Arabic?

truthmans2012:

But how can you tell this flaring lie ? How did you get the gut to say allah didn't command Muslims to go to Kaaba? In several passages of the quran we find allah mentioning Kaaba as the house of Allah and the resort for all mankind. In fact, going to Mecca is one of the five pillars of islam. So you have resorted to telling lies because your argument doesn't hold water. Or is it because you are ignorant ?

What I'm saying is that the verse you made reference to, "a house of God and resort for all mankind" is named in the Qur'an as a place in Bakkah, not Makkah, but translators insert Makkah in brackets. They aren't the same place.
The verse: The first House established for the people was that at Bakkah, a place holy, and a guidance to all beings.

truthmans2012:

Did Elijah create any life ? He revived a dead person, whose life was already created. Did you hear of any prophet who created life by himself? No prophet could create even an ant. It takes only God to create life, which Jesus did.

First of all, the rest of the verse continues as follows:
it becomes a bird by permission of God. And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of God
Not of his own will or power, but by God's.

Secondly, whatever Jesus did, as your own scripture says, "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man that he should change his mind".

truthmans2012:

Look up, you asked for it.

I was giving an example of how silly your questioning was.

truthmans2012:

You are making some assertions that am almost tempted to say your reasoning ability is on the low side. How can you say what Muhammad's grandfather named his son is irrelevant? Why do muslims name their children Islamic names and not Sango worshipers name? If you hear somebody name his son Sangotola, what do you think is the father's religion? When Mutaleb named his son Abdullai (Abduallah), meaning servant of allah, a reasonable person should know that it was allah he was worshipping. It shows Allah was his idol as an idolater. You need deliverance if you cannot understand this simple thing !!!

I'm getting sick of typing this now, honestly. Until you realise and fully comprehend that God translated into Arabic is Allah, then we really won't get anywhere in this discussion. If you like, give me an alternative word for God in Arabic, then we will proceed. Because you keep returning to this futile argument.

truthmans2012:

So, to make islam appealing to Qurayish, allah had to concede to paganism? What a statement. It would have been better you are silent instead of saying this trash. So allah had to succumb to satanic practices in order to draw the Qurayish, I'm sure other Muslims following this thread must be ashamed of you. Islam is equal to paganism because allah wanted the Qurayish at cost.

God didn't concede to paganism. All images and idols in the Kaaba were destroyed, it is no longer linked to them. When people are at Hajj and pray, they call out to God, not to the idols that used to be worshiped there.

truthmans2012:

For Christian festivals, it is not in the Christian Scripture to celebrate those festivals and besides, no pagans celebrate the type of festivals Christians celebrate.

I didn't say that pagans celebrate the type of festivals you do. But Christian festivals adopted pagan rituals in order to gain converts, that's my point. For example Christmas was influenced by the holiday of Saturnalia, this was only done to take the roman pagan masses along with Christianity.

truthmans2012:

Since about my four years on nairaland, I have never met any Muslim with your own type of opinion, probably because you are a Muslim woman.

Great. I'm glad to be your first. I get that a lot.

truthmans2012:

A woman's intelligence in islam is half that of a man.

My intelligence is half of a man's? Very interesting. Provide proof from the Qur'an please?

QueenSalewa

You haven't proven anything. Instead you've just displayed a willfulness to remain ignorant. Let me ask you something then. What do you think "God" is in Arabic?

Let me start questioning you.

What does Quran 109:1-6 say, interpret it and supporting it with evidence (s).

What I'm saying is that the verse you made reference to, "a house of God and resort for all mankind" is named in the Qur'an as a place in Bakkah, not Makkah, but translators insert Makkah in brackets. They aren't the same place.
The verse: The first House established for the people was that at Bakkah, a place holy, and a guidance to all beings.

Where is Bakkah ?

Quote the verse and let people see it, I will quote many verses in the quran that speaks about Kaaba. Maybe you will tell me Kaaba is in Ghana.

First of all, the rest of the verse continues as follows:
it becomes a bird by permission of God. And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of God
Not of his own will or power, but by God's.

Why was allahh's greatest prophet, Muhammad, not given permission to do any miracle ? He couldn't heal an ordinary headache. When his jihadists ate poison he couldn't do anything. He was watching them till they died. He too tasted the poison and spewed it out but died later of the poison.

Do true prophets have to taste food before they could detect poison in it?


Quran is supposed to be a revelation and not a miracle because I know you will tell me Muhammad's miracle was the quran. He wasn't the first to receive revelation and others didn't call their revelations miracle.

Secondly, whatever Jesus did, as your own scripture says, "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man that he should change his mind".

What is the relevance of this ?

I'm getting sick of typing this now, honestly. Until you realise and fully comprehend that God translated into Arabic is Allah, then we really won't get anywhere in this discussion. If you like, give me an alternative word for God in Arabic, then we will proceed. Because you keep returning to this futile argument.

There are two Spirits being talked about here, Yahweh and allah.The Arabs Muslims can call anything their own allah but are they referring to Yahweh ? Muslims allah is the idol Mutaleb, Muhammad's grandfather was serving. They have been worshiping allah as an idol in Muhammad's family before he was born.

God didn't concede to paganism. All images and idols in the Kaaba were destroyed, it is no longer linked to them. When people are at Hajj and pray, they call out to God, not to the idols that used to be worshiped there.

You don't know what you are saying. It was you who said allah took to pagan worship to draw the Qurayish to islam. Have you forgotten you said so ? I know every Muslim is a liar but your own is too silly.

I didn't say that pagans celebrate the type of festivals you do. But Christian festivals adopted pagan rituals in order to gain converts, that's my point. For example Christmas was influenced by the holiday of Saturnalia, this was only done to take the roman pagan masses along with Christianity.

Give proof to your assertion.

Again, was it God who said Christians should do so in the Bible? It is unlike allah who gave express permission for Muslim to worship him the say way they worship idols. It is found in the quran and hadiths.

My intelligence is half of a man's? Very interesting. Provide proof from the Qur'an please?

Yes, your intelligence is half of a man's as a Muslim woman. See what your prophet said about it:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Apostle went out to
the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o
'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then
he passed by the women and said,
"O women! Give alms, as I have
seen that the majority of the
dwellers of Hell-fire were you
(women)." They asked, "Why is it
so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied,
"You curse frequently and are
ungrateful to your husbands. I
have not seen anyone more
DEFICIENT in INTELLIGENCE and
religion than you. A cautious
sensible man could be led astray
by some of you." The women
asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is
deficient in our intelligence and
religion?" He said, "Is not the
evidence of two women equal to
the witness of one man?" They
replied in the affirmative. He said,
"This is the DEFICIENCY in her
INTELLIGENCE. Isn't it true that a
woman can neither pray nor fast
during her menses?" The women
replied in the affirmative. He said,
"This is the deficiency in her
religion."
Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
The Prophet said, "Isn't the
witness of a woman equal to half
of that of a man?" The women
said, "Yes." He said, "This is
because of the DEFICIENCY of a
woman's mind."
Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826

You know so little about islam, no wonder you are spewing out ignorance. I will advise you to withdraw from nairaland as you are not qualified to debate here.

truthmans2012:

Let me start questioning you.
What does Quran 109:1-6 say, interpret it and supporting it with evidence (s).

Say : O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
Nor will I worship those whom you have worshipped;,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Historical context: this verse was sent to distinguish Muslims from the rituals, beliefs and gods that the Qurayish associated themselves with.

It's quite self explanatory.
The chapter is addressed to people who reject faith - atheists, and people who have heard the message of the Qur'an but choose to ignore it.

truthmans2012:

Where is Bakkah ?
Quote the verse and let people see it, I will quote many verses in the quran that speaks about Kaaba. Maybe you will tell me Kaaba is in Ghana.

Reference to Bakkah - Quran 3:96: The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings.

(The only) reference to Mecca - Qur'an 48:24: It is He who restrained their hands from you, and your hands from them, in the hollow of Mecca, after that He made you victors over them. And God sees the things you do.

Translators say "Bakkah" is an ancient name for Mecca when it is not. If it was then it wouldn't have been mentioned at all, but it is. All the quotes you plan on writing here do not say Mecca in Arabic. There is only one verse in the Qur'an that mentions Mecca and that is the one above.

truthmans2012:

Why was allahh's greatest prophet, Muhammad, not given permission to do any miracle ? He couldn't heal an ordinary headache. When his jihadists ate poison he couldn't do anything. He was watching them till they died. He too tasted the poison and spewed it out but died later of the poison.

Do true prophets have to taste food before they could detect poison in it?

Prophet Mohammed was a man. Not a God, not a demi-God. He was born naturally and died naturally. There is speculation on whether he died as a result of poisoning, or fevers. But, regardless of how he died, what does this prove or disprove? Are all prophets supposed to die by God taking them by a whirlwind or are prophets immortal to you? I don't understand what you're trying to show here. That he should never have died? You don't like the way he died? It should have been more majestic? What exactly?

truthmans2012:

Quran is supposed to be a revelation and not a miracle because I know you will tell me Muhammad's miracle was the quran. He wasn't the first to receive revelation and others didn't call their revelations miracle.

It's not so much the revelation alone that Muslims assert is a miracle, it's the revelation paired with the prophet's apparent illiteracy. But that notion is mainly based on sunni texts and since I'm not a sunni, I won't use those anyway.
Miracles attributed to him in the Qur'an are the splitting of the moon, the night travel to Jerusalem and the ascension.

truthmans2012:

What is the relevance of this ?

You said, "it only takes God to create life, which Jesus did", implying Jesus is God? So I quoted where your scriptures say God is not a man. That's the relevance.

truthmans2012:

There are two Spirits being talked about here, Yahweh and allah.The Arabs Muslims can call anything their own allah but are they referring to Yahweh ?

Yes they are. That's like saying Yoruba Christians aren't referring to the God of the Bible when they call God "Olorun" because of it's ties to Yoruba mythology. Why can't you see how horribly flawed your reasoning is? Does that assertion genuinely make sense to you ...?

truthmans2012:

Give proof to your assertion.

Saturn's great festival, the Saturnalia, became the most popular of Roman festivals, and its influence is still felt in the celebration of Christmas and the Western world's New Year. The Saturnalia was originally celebrated on December 17, but it was later extended to seven days.
[Source, http://www.britannica.com/topic/Saturnalia-Roman-festival]

truthmans2012:

Again, was it God who said Christians should do so in the Bible? It is unlike allah who gave express permission for Muslim to worship him the say way they worship idols. It is found in the quran and hadiths.

Lmao, the whole New Testament concept and understanding of God is pagan. Nearly every nation, pre-Christianity held similar beliefs to the trinitarian understanding of God. Talk less of Muslims circulating a structure on Hajj.

truthmans2012:

[s]Yes, your intelligence is half of a man's as a Muslim woman. See what your prophet said about it:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Apostle went out to
the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o
'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then
he passed by the women and said,
"O women! Give alms, as I have
seen that the majority of the
dwellers of Hell-fire were you
(women)." They asked, "Why is it
so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied,
"You curse frequently and are
ungrateful to your husbands. I
have not seen anyone more
DEFICIENT in INTELLIGENCE and
religion than you. A cautious
sensible man could be led astray
by some of you." The women
asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is
deficient in our intelligence and
religion?" He said, "Is not the
evidence of two women equal to
the witness of one man?" They
replied in the affirmative. He said,
"This is the DEFICIENCY in her
INTELLIGENCE. Isn't it true that a
woman can neither pray nor fast
during her menses?" The women
replied in the affirmative. He said,
"This is the deficiency in her
religion."
Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
The Prophet said, "Isn't the
witness of a woman equal to half
of that of a man?" The women
said, "Yes." He said, "This is
because of the DEFICIENCY of a
woman's mind."
Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826[/s]

Interesting, but that's not from the Qur'an.

truthmans2012:

You know so little about islam, no wonder you are spewing out ignorance. I will advise you to withdraw from nairaland as you are not qualified to debate here.

OK, if you'd like to end the debate then please say, so I can stop responding.

It's actually possible to formulate an argument without ending each of your posts with unnecessary, patronising, anecdotal "nuggets of advice" that nobody asked for. If you'd like to end it, just say.

QueenSalewa:


Like I have said, first muslim *of their time* is implied. BUT... I accept that the prophets should have said "I am the first submitter of my time" to avoid confusion.

Why are you being purposely obtuse? Did you not read what I said about title not organised religion? Yes, Moses was Jewish AND muslim. They weren't mutually exclusive. Everybody that followed Moses was a submitter at that time too. Now that there is a new revelation, CURRENT Jews aren't submitters anymore, but they are People of The Book. It's not rocket science.

I'm thankful you posted the whole verse and not just one sentence. The verse says "believe not in God nor the Last Day".... Do Christians believe in God? Yes. Do they believe in the last day? Yes. So obviously that verse is calling out a very specific type of Christian/Jew who despite claiming to be people of the book, did bit actually believe in God or the last day. What the verse isn't saying is "Christians and Jews do not believe in God". What the verse IS saying is "fight the people of the book who do not believe in God and the last day".

People who do not/did not believe in God are obviously not muslims, if that's what you're asking. Next.

i think you just justified the killing of christians by muslim in the name of jihad.

QueenSalewa

Say : O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
Nor will I worship those whom you have worshipped;,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Historical context: this verse was sent to distinguish Muslims from the rituals, beliefs and gods that the Qurayish associated themselves with.

It's quite self explanatory.
The chapter is addressed to people who reject faith - atheists, and people who have heard the message of the Qur'an but choose to ignore it.

Give proof to the historical context from authoritative source (s). You always like expressing your personal, ignorant and false opinions.

Are Jews and Christians believers in Muhammad's Allah ?

Do you know the meaning of atheist ? Are Jews and Christians, the people of the Book atheists?

Readers can now see why I shouldn't continue with somebody of your intelligence.


(

The only) reference to Mecca - Qur'an 48:24: It is He who restrained their hands from you, and your hands from them, in the hollow of Mecca, after that He made you victors over them. And God sees the things you do

.

After you have said the quran doesn't mention Mecca but Bakkah only. You are soooo ignorant that you can afford to say just any trash. You are not worth my time.

Prophet Mohammed was a man. Not a God, not a demi-God. He was born naturally and died naturally. There is speculation on whether he died as a result of poisoning, or fevers. But, regardless of how he died, what does this prove or disprove? Are all prophets supposed to die by God taking them by a whirlwind or are prophets immortal to you? I don't understand what you're trying to show here. That he should never have died? You don't like the way he died? It should have been more majestic? What exactly?

The question here is not what killed Muhammad but how he was so spiritually powerless that he couldn't heal any sickness other than to behead innocent people. His jihadits ate poison, he couldn't heal them. When he was sick, Jubril prayed for him and also promised allah would heal him but he was not healed, he eventually died. Jubril lied allah would heal him. The same Jubril (a liar) brought Quranic revelations, how do you believe the revelation of a liar ?

I know you don't have an idea of all those because you are an ignorant muslim and that is why I don't have to waste my time on you.

It's not so much the revelation alone that Muslims assert is a miracle, it's the revelation paired with the prophet's apparent illiteracy. But that notion is mainly based on sunni texts and since I'm not a sunni, I won't use those anyway.
Miracles attributed to him in the Qur'an are the splitting of the moon, the night travel to Jerusalem and the ascension.

Was Muhammad the only illiterate 'prophet' ? What was the educational qualification of other prophets before him ? Why didn't others call their revelations miracle ? Smh !!!

Tell me the Quranic verse that says Muhammad split the moon. What Allah said in the quran is that Muhammad was not given power for miracle (Quran 13:7).

Muhammad had a dream that he went to heaven. His physical body was lying on his bed. Is it a miracle to dream ? I'm yet to find a Muslim that reasons fine.

Saturn's great festival, the Saturnalia, became the most popular of Roman festivals, and its influence is still felt in the celebration of Christmas and the Western world's New Year. The Saturnalia was originally celebrated on December 17, but it was later extended to seven days.
[Source, http://www.britannica.com/topic/Saturnalia-Roman-festival]

Lies !!!

How did you relate Roman Saturnalia to Christmas ? That Roman pagans celebrate a festival does not mean Christians celebrate same. Saturnalia is not the same as Christmas even if they are celebrated on the same date.

Interesting, but that's not from the Qur'an.

So I have given you education on islam, which you have been ignorant of. Your prophet, Muhammad said a woman's intelligence is deficient and this is actually reflecting in your posts. Or don't you believe your prophet?

You don't know islam is practiced using both quran and hadiths? Your allah said muslims should obey him and his sole prophet, Muhammad. It is in hadiths you can find the words and deed of Muhammad. As a Muslim woman, you are bound to believe the saying of your prophet that your intelligence is deficient and that why I shouldn't continue with you.

OK, if you'd like to end the debate then please say, so I can stop responding.

It's actually possible to formulate an argument without ending each of your posts with unnecessary, patronising, anecdotal "nuggets of advice" that nobody asked for. If you'd like to end it, just say.

Trash !!!

misreal:
i think you just justified the killing of christians by muslim in the name of jihad.

Yes I did, is that surprising?

[i]

truthmans2012:


Give proof to the historical context from authoritative source (s). You always like expressing your personal, ignorant and false opinions.

Are Jews and Christians believers in Muhammad's Allah ?

Do you know the meaning of atheist ? Are Jews and Christians, the people of the Book atheists?

Readers can now see why I shouldn't continue with somebody of your intelligence.


(.

After you have said the quran doesn't mention Mecca but Bakkah only. You are soooo ignorant that you can afford to say just any trash. You are not worth my time.






The question here is not what killed Muhammad but how he was so spiritually powerless that he couldn't heal any sickness other than to behead innocent people. His jihadits ate poison, he couldn't heal them. When he was sick, Jubril prayed for him and also promised allah would heal him but he was not healed, he eventually died. Jubril lied allah would heal him. The same Jubril (a liar) brought Quranic revelations, how do you believe the revelation of a liar ?

I know you don't have an idea of all those because you are an ignorant muslim and that is why I don't have to waste my time on you.





Was Muhammad the only illiterate 'prophet' ? What was the educational qualification of other prophets before him ? Why didn't others call their revelations miracle ? Smh !!!

Tell me the Quranic verse that says Muhammad split the moon. What Allah said in the quran is that Muhammad was not given power for miracle (Quran 13:7).

Muhammad had a dream that he went to heaven. His physical body was lying on his bed. Is it a miracle to dream ? I'm yet to find a Muslim that reasons fine.




Lies !!!

How did you relate Roman Saturnalia to Christmas ? That Roman pagans celebrate a festival does not mean Christians celebrate same. Saturnalia is not the same as Christmas even if they are celebrated on the same date.




So I have given you education on islam, which you have been ignorant of. Your prophet, Muhammad said a woman's intelligence is deficient and this is actually reflecting in your posts. Or don't you believe your prophet?

You don't know islam is practiced using both quran and hadiths? Your allah said muslims should obey him and his sole prophet, Muhammad. It is in hadiths you can find the words and deed of Muhammad. As a Muslim woman, you are bound to believe the saying of your prophet that your intelligence is deficient and that why I shouldn't continue with you.





Trash !!!

It seems you can't formulate an argument without resorting to petty insults, which is a shame. Stop wasting your precious time responding then. Lmao

QueenSalewa:

Yes I did, is that surprising?

NOT AT ALL

QueenSalewa:
[i]

It seems you can't formulate an argument without resorting to petty insults, which is a shame. Stop wasting your precious time responding then. Lmao

Insult? Do you remember how many times you have called me "silly" ?

When I said you are ignorant I was only describing your knowledge of islam. And when I talk about your intelligence I expected you to reason better. No insult intended please.

I think I have taught you some Islamic lessons. Keep pondering on them.

truthmans2012:


Insult? Do you remember how many times you have called me "silly" ?

When I said you are ignorant I was only describing your knowledge of islam. And when I talk about your intelligence I expected you to reason better. No insult intended please.

I think I have taught you some Islamic lessons. Keep pondering on them.

I've never called you silly. Calling your argument silly is not the same as calling you silly.

Okay, you say you didn't intend to insult, but it was insulting.

Next !!!

Who was the first muslim ?

Remember allah didn't say each of the many first Muslim was the first "among his people" Saying so means putting words in Allah's mouth.

If Abraham was the first Muslim, how could Moses also be first Muslim being the descendant of Abraham? It is like saying your forefather was the first Muslim and you too is the first muslim.

If Moses was the first Muslim, how could Jesus disciples be the first muslims when they were all Jews?

You can see that something is wrong with the quran.