Thanx a million Karen001 for taking your time to give this wonderful teaching. May God continue to life you up in your biz.

Please can you send me your phone number I will like to get some advise from you. Please send me your number to this email address winivoque@gmail.com

@ karin001... From your other topics u seem to be the owner or u r working for the snack company?this your particularly topic looks like u using idea to get people intereted in this "ur snack company".u talked about getting people to supply them oil, another thread u asked if they could supply ur company eggs and another of ur topic u r talking about getting distributors in onitsha .Are u the producer trying to get people interested in ur snacks or u r actually the distributor that is making money from the snack biz as u said here?...why am asking all this is because I know a lot of people would have been e-mailing u to get more info,so its best u r plain so we get the right message

red19:
@ karin001... From your other topics u seem to be the owner or u r working for the snack company?this your particularly topic looks like u using idea to get people intereted in this "ur snack company".u talked about getting people to supply them oil, another thread u asked if they could supply ur company eggs and another of ur topic u r talking about getting distributors in onitsha .Are u the producer trying to get people interested in ur snacks or u r actually the distributor that is making money from the snack biz as u said here?...why am asking all this is because I know a lot of people would have been e-mailing u to get more info,so its best u r plain so we get the right message

I must first commend you for your frankness in expressing only what others have accused me of in their minds and some through email.

You are indeed smart. Very smart. The idea must confess didn't ever occur to me at all. However that ploy wouldn't work with the majority of Nigerians. We are a very cautious lot. We see before believing. And chin-chin honestly is not your everyday product that people must buy. It isn't a NEED. It takes painstaking persistence and patience to make it work. The only consolation being that when it works and certain variables are kept consistent it provides a consistent stream of income.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not own a snacks company and have no intention of owning one now or in the future. I do have my dreams and I hope they materialize one day but it is definitely not a snack business. This is only a temporary platform that will provide the necessary springboard required to catalyze my metamorphosis.

Secondly, in creating this thread I deliberately shielded the name of the company from open mention because that is not the kernel of the thread. Very true that a number of people have requested for the details of the company, some I have divulged some I have not told. The company is a medium sized one and probably wouldn't be able to sustain an avalanche in terms of demand going by my personal assessment of their equipment and other resources. They are also at the moment not even taking on Distributor everywhere apart from Onitsha and Kano which they announced to existing distributors at the annual forum last month.

If you read my posts carefully, you will see a lot of references made to other businesses. Incidentally, more of the emails I have received are from posters who are more interested in me marketing their businesses,products and services; some of them snacks and other stuff. On the issue of the other posts that have to do with the supply of Veg. Oil and Eggs and whatever, that is information I put across for people who could be interested in supplying these items. This was actually a reaction to the post on egg distribution created in the business section of Nairaland earlier on.

Finally, I live in Port Harcourt now with my family. I do sell chin-chin and cakes in Port Harcourt. For your information I also sell other stuff like chocolates, candies and Yale bread when it is available.

As a parting shot, I will have you know that I have met with 6 female Nairalanders here in Port Harcourt since creating and populating this thread. Two of them on their own volition without ant prompting whatsoever even followed me around as I did my rounds on Tuesday and Wednesday(yesterday when I went to Yenogoa).

Many people have sent me emails thanking me for publishing my experiences. Many people will also approach this effort with a a stereotyping that is only typical of a certain kind of Nigerian. Each one to himself or herself.

Recently, I had a little time to evaluate my performance since arriving Port Harcourt. I realized that my turnover and profitability had dropped considerably. In trying to establish why it dawned on me that my one product sales and the totally new effort was primarily responsible for this lull. Now, this is very important because this is the point at which people make a u-turn and abandon any business they have embarked upon. At this point in PH I am not making any profit at all. I am however not also making a loss. At best I am just breaking even. In order to motivate myself into staying on I had to give myself reasons to continue. These reasons are seen as references in Psychology. Now references’ can work both ways; they can motivate or demotivate you. How you see the reference is how it affects your decision at that point in time.
In this case my references reinforced my commitment to strengthen my commitment to improving my sales while looking for something else to increase my sales, thus turnover and profitability. While in Lagos, I was selling both chin-chin and doughnuts while in PH I am sort of limited as I cannot see doughnuts to sell. Does anybody know who produces wonderful jam doughnuts within Port Harcourt? Please notify me?

Karin001
He who finds a good wife finds a good thing.
You are a blessing to your husband and your family, I hope they know that.

YoungExec:
Karin001
He who finds a good wife finds a good thing.
You are a blessing to your husband and your family, I hope they know that.

Thanks YoungExec. We are all channels for the blessing of the Most High.


Youngexec just reminded me of a certain lady we started this retail trade together. Her husband scoffed at the business initially saying that nothing could be lower than chin-chin sales but yet in fairness to him he never dissuaded the wife from doing the business. Then he used to tell his friends when they visit and chin-chin was strewn all over the living room. He used to announce then to his visitors ‘oh, that’s my wife’s business’.

Later on as the business grew with more capital invested and profitability soaring she started introducing it as ‘our’ business and defended it to the hilt. Today the business has grown phenomenally, he now calls it ‘his business’. He is so involved in the running of the business that you would think it is his own business. He now liaises with the company for supplies and payments. His wife who is also my friend is nonetheless a real blessing to him in the real sense of that word. Of course from time to time she humours him about his initial scoffing which he has forgotten completely. This particular kind of forgetfulness is as hilarious as it is alarming.

Women, please hold on to your businesses, grow them in faith and just keep pushing. Forget about whether you can see results/profits or not. The business will change you and it will begin to yield at some point.
It does for others, it will do for you.

Karin001:


Thanks YoungExec. We are all channels for the blessing of the Most High.


Youngexec just reminded me of a certain lady we started this retail trade together. Her husband scoffed at the business initially saying that nothing could be lower than chin-chin sales but yet in fairness to him he never dissuaded the wife from doing the business. Then he used to tell his friends when they visit and chin-chin was strewn all over the living room. He used to announce then to his visitors ‘oh, that’s my wife’s business’.

Later on as the business grew with more capital invested and profitability soaring she started introducing it as ‘our’ business and defended it to the hilt. Today the business has grown phenomenally, he now calls it ‘his business’. He is so involved in the running of the business that you would think it is his own business. He now liaises with the company for supplies and payments. His wife who is also my friend is nonetheless a real blessing to him in the real sense of that word. Of course from time to time she humours him about his initial scoffing which he has forgotten completely. This particular kind of forgetfulness is as hilarious as it is alarming.

Women, please hold on to your businesses, grow them in faith and just keep pushing. Forget about whether you can see results/profits or not. The business will change you and it will begin to yield at some point.
It does for others, it will do for you.

pls reply my mail maam. Tnx

madam,i sent you mail please reply.Thank you.

I am blessed and I am a blessing

I also reside in ph

with a salary of 15,000 I am starting up a company that will be generate over a 100,000 monthly.

I can do this because

1. no amount is too small to start a business, it's a question of how big your MIND is

2. I have Christ in me


let's keep inspiring the world to be the best they can be

Ericoleon really impressed me. He is one of the people who have made the effort of putting together this thread a worthwhile and delightful venture. The size of the capital is not even important to a newbie in business. In the last few weeks most people have emailed me and asked about how much was required to set up my type of business? I have replied them that the amount used in any start up while important is not as important as a number of other variables.With the gale of right sizing sweeping through the formal sector of the economy, most people who will 'sent forth' by their current employers will be given something as a parting gift which serves two purposes;

1. To appreciate the staff and his contributions during his stay with the company.

2. To enable the staff find his feet while he either sets up a business or seeks employment somewhere else.

Many people get this money and complain about the amount and its inability to solve their problem(s).

It is imperative to note that the most important requirement for a startup business is the relevance of an idea as regards how useful it is to the people it is targeted at. i would imagine that if you were living abroad and working at manufacturing Generator sets your business wouldn't last that long and neither would it be profitable as just about every body in the developed world have access to high quality electricity at all times.
We would therefore advise that you study the market and start with the market needs and is willing to pay sufficiently in order to take care of your own cost and profitability. Please also leave room for reviewing the product, strategy and pricing to relect a balance in the market place that will show some fairness for all stakeholders.

Ride on ma may God uplift you above kings.

Wow! Wow! Wow!! That's what keeps coming to my mind when I go through Mrs karin' post.
I'm fascinated by your analogy and philosophy. The way you express yourself is so succinct without confusing the reader. Even when you addressed the person who suspected you of owning the chin-chin company, that was diplomatic! Wow! I'm forced to ask, what did you study ma?

Madam you have a mail.please reply when less-busy.Thanks

Do you have any distributor currently in Bayelsa I'm interested in this business.

My apologies for the lapse in the last few days.

Believe me honestly, the intention has not been to keep you in suspense.

The life of a Sales person is not glamorous especially when you are just starting out. Too much talking when making cold calls and sales pitches, too much trekking and then again too much carrying of load from car to shop and then being faced with stories or outright rejection. By the way it is important to note that should you ever plan to go into sales/distributorship, please serious consideration to the type of footwear you use. They should preferably be of crepe soles and and very comfortable. And do expect outright wahala.

On the whole, huge kudos to those who live in PH who survive all the excesses of this town. Everybody in Port Harcourt is a 'big man' or 'Big Mans' wife or girlfriend or son , daughter, cousin, neighbour, country man.........the list goes on and on and on.

The best place to show your hard earned connection is when there is a minor vehicular accident. It goes thus 'do you know who I am' and delivered in very high pitch for emphasis.

The whole town is one big drama scene with comedy strips punctuating every where. The wahala of Port Harcourt appears to dwarf that of Lagos, but then its fun.

The area boys here have a total different code. Even when your vehicle is parked in strictly earmarked parking spaces you still gotta 'settle'. The height of it is when you stop at an intersection and you are accosted and ordered to produce on paper or the other (some of them you have no idea of whatsoever). I have learnt the hard way.

When I had to buy a car I opted for a station wagon type for two reasons;

1. To be able to carry more goods.
2. To be able to advertise my goods through the visibility provided by the rear the see-through compartments.

This wasn't such a good idea in Port Harcourt. But I have learnt my lessons and so since the birds have learnt to fly without perching, the hunter has learnt to shoot without missing. I had a very discouraging experience in Igbo Etche the other day and I almost wept when all the pent up frustrations came welling up. But I was able to steel myself with a technique I learnt from my hubby. These things do happen. I will recount this experience later tonight. It was very severely discouraging but at the same time very enlightening. Do keep a date.

My experience here in PH is like starting the business afresh. I have to cover as much ground as possible and ensure that I cultivate and strengthen as much loyalty as I can get. My experience is increasing by the day and my resolve to move from break even status to profitability and further up to to mega profitability has been triggered and I hope to sustain it. I will expose this trigger and recognition in my next post(s) which will be up latest this weekend. In that post I will attempt to use anecdotes to explain one very short word which all of use daily without savouring its very deeply overwhelming significance.

Meanwhile, do wish a sister some love and strength as I waddle along trying to add value and take value simultaneously. It ain't easy.

And guess what in a few weeks, half the year would been gone.

We need to stand naked before a huge mirror and draw the necessary lessons.

This is my wish for you.

All the best sis,wish u same strength u r giving out.your determination to succeed will open great doors for u.

@Madam karine, its every story that people face.the only way out is the passion and strong will to achieve your biz goal.please can you in your next post explain to us your steps of selling.the practical ways you use in selling and winning over you customer.finally madam over the in ph do you still sell chin-chin to school.THANKS

Again, I apologize for the long recess.

I needed it. I honestly did.

Back to the thread. I promise you that I will try to post every other day this week.

Today I want to talk about a very important word that is so important that even if you did every other thing right but did not observe the demands of this word you might as well never have done any other thing.

This word is so short that one could actually ignore its import.
It is however the one word that determines how successful you get or if you will be moving in fits and starts. The lack of this word and what it represents is the most prominent reason why individuals and businesses fail.

Brace yourself as we look attempt an objective and clinical demystification of what this very important word signifies.

I hope the value of this word will jump at us at the end of our interaction today.

May we be granted the recognition to understand that the reason we have failed in the past is because WE reused to take this word seriously.

And that in the future we will realize there is no step forward or even backward without this word or concept.

ACTION
If you have had the privilege of being around the shooting of a film or a television programme you will be very familiar with this word in the context in which we need to see it today. After all the arrangements have been put in place the camera begins to roll only when the Producer/Director screams out; action. At that point everything becomes active. This is the point where all the programming, planning and preparations become alive. Prior to this point everything was ready but without life. So with 'action' the camera comes on and pans all, the actors and actresses and scenes who have been prepared by all other contributors who begin the attempt to give the script life.

When the Director screams cut everything screeches to a halt momentarily.

This scenario has a great similarity with our lives. As children we begin learning from day one at an informal level; our homes and its immediate surrounding. Incidentally this is where our preparation for living commences at a societal level. We begin to absorb the attributes and tools required for an interactive living in the society.

We then grow into a structured formal learning system that traverses several years.

Depending on the choice which again is dictated by several factors some of us are ready after 12 years, others after 18 years, while a number of others are still not ready after 22 years because of the specialized preparedness required.

The entire educational process from Nursery till tertiary level is a preparation platform for living successfully in society.
It is nonetheless very important to recognize that the entire process is only a preparation. There is no guarantee that the process in itself will make you successful. Absolutely no guarantee. The only guarantee for success is ACTION.

A good idea will naturally set you apart from the rest. Effective planning will naturally bring the idea closer to manifestation. But action is the singular most important ingredient that will transform it from good plan to reality. Action will provide the motion required to transform.

Many people who have great ideas are limited not by the lack of a wonderful plan or the capital to start up but by the decision to take action and then boost it with massive action. The reasons for this sometimes border on the inability of the person to generate the requisite energy to START or the courage to face the prospects and other hurdles. Among all reasons the most important of them is the fact that they are not ready because they lack one thing or the other and must have that before stepping out to commence the process. Summarily, without action you might as well never have conceived the idea because it will be still born.

I knew a man while growing up. He was a lecturer in one of the Nigerian universities. During the days of the military governments, he was fed up with his circumstances and decided to make a career change. He thought of trying out his hands in business and opted to start as a general goods and services supplier. Fortunately for him he had some contacts in Oil and gas and even in Government. As an academic he sat down and for several nights hammered out a beautiful and inspiring business plan. A very theoretically attractive plan without realistic underpinnings. The plan could not be effected for several years and no action was taken. First hurdle for him was a getting a befitting name. The name just had to be ‘right’ and ‘appropriate’. The name had to reflect the names of all his children and wife while at the same time capture the very essence of the business thrust. After that the issue of the appropriate address for the registration of the business and even the number of share capital that would be befitting for a company owned by a man of his stature.

When eventually the company was eventually registered, it never did business because the Oga was waiting for his brother to bring the contract to him at home, after all he was his elder brother. What of the other companies that had hinted offers? They were expected to come to him because the officials involved had at one time or another been his students. By the time he came to recognition that he needed to push for whatever he wanted it was too late. He retired as a professor never having used his Limited liability company even for one day. I still see this man regularly.

Many people graduate from university and rather than take action they chose to wait. I will never forget the story of a particular lady who was a niece of my neighbour in Lagos. After her NYSC she relocated there in search of a job. She applied using every medium. Newspapers, word of mouth and online. But she went the extra mile. She joined my husband every weekday by 5.30am to Victoria Island and came back with him by 6,00pm. Everybody in the neighbourhood thought that she was working naturally. It was only one day that I noticed that she didn’t join my hubby for about three days consecutively that I asked after her and my hubby shocked me. She was taking a break for a week before resuming at a job.
All the while the lady wasn’t working, she left home in the morning with freshly printed resumes and walked from office to office seeking jobs. Never giving up for over two months until one day she arrived at an office where someone was required to temporarily replace a lady whose hubby died in the ill-fated Dana flight. She stepped in immediately and eventually was confirmed to take the job.

Many others see opportunities in different formats and ignore it unconsciously. As simple as an action like asking may appear people still don't do it. If you want to receive something then you must ask. Seek and you will find, Knock and the door will be open. Please note that in this biblical quote there is action(ask, seek, and knock) before we have the granting which is essentially a reaction(received ,find and open). Action must precede a reaction. ALWAYS,

Ever since this thread came up many people have read it and commented accordingly. Some have even sent me emails requesting for the name of the company making the snacks and how they could become successful distributors of the products.

All this is well taken actually,but there is some common thread that runs through all of them. The fact that they all want to do well. Now I would say that while it is very important that in becoming a distributor for any brand, the company, its products and compensation package must be attractive enough this isn’t usually the kernel of the business.

No matter how good a company or its products are it does not make sense for you to rent a shop and put them there while waiting for them to sell themselves. It will never happen. Products have no brains, legs or drive.

Somebody has got to do the work, the hard work.
I used to wonder how those glamorous shops you have on Awolowo Way, Ikoyi, Opebi road, Allen Avenue, Isaac John, Aba Road Port Harcourt and indeed other high streets in this country manage. I mean when you go in there most times they are practically empty and apparently under patronized yet year in year out they all renew their rents and meet other obligations that may arise in the course of doing business. One day I now ran into one of my university mates selling for a very popular brand on Opebi and she startled me with what she claimed she was earning.

It was no longer a shock when she told me that the shops are only display points as the main activity involve them as Marketers and sales people driving around and meeting prospective clients and selling to them right in their homes and offices.

Many things are sold in this country that way. In Lagos my children were sold Homework carriers in their school for which we paid 1000 per child, I ran into the supplier and she told me that her husband sews those bags while she markets the school proprietor and PTA.

In one of the responses to inquiries made on this thread I did advise that as a starter it will be very difficult for anyone as an individual to produce a commercially viable product or service on the one end and also sell or create a market for the product on one end. While it is very possible the growth of the business will at best be pedestrian.

Share out responsibilities. Choose the one part of the business that you are more competent in and farm out the rest to competent hands who have a comparative advantage in that respect.

Kingkingsley:
@Madam karine, its every story that people face.the only way out is the passion and strong will to achieve your biz goal.please can you in your next post explain to us your steps of selling.the practical ways you use in selling and winning over you customer.finally madam over the in ph do you still sell chin-chin to school.THANKS

There are two essential parts of selling; the mental and the physical. Every other part can be subsumed within these two broad categories.

Mental or Psychological;
Selling at this level involves the careful and meticulous planning of the sales pitch, approach, reactions, responses, market delineation and customer classification. Suffice to state here that the sales plan should be on paper. Here you will define your customer, decide the market where you will find these customers and very importantly ascertain why the customer should buy from you as against other options available. I would like to add here that you must identify the benefit(s) the customer will draw from this product and at the price you are offering. Confidence building is also a feature of this phase of selling. If you are a newbie in Sales you may be seriously intimidated by a certain type of customer if you have not been mentally prepared for that kind of reaction. So sometimes role playing, auto-suggestion and even visualization become a very important tool in selling or sales planning.

The physical part is the action and interactive part of the selling.
At this point the actual sales is experienced in real terms. Now Kingkingsley, in response to your question I must say that at the very beginning it was difficult to approach prospects and introduce my product to them. After some women snarled at me a few times it became a bit more difficult because most times I was not prepared for the reaction.

It is one day that I recall reading sales book that the author made a suggestion that changed my sales dynamics and by extension my sales volume for the better. The first suggestion was that I should first of all like the product enough, be proud of it enough and be a convinced user or consumer. Fundamentally the most difficult thing to do professionally is to sell a product you yourself are not sold on. If you are not convinced about what you are selling you will be a poor imitation of a PHCN staff convincing a customer to pay for 12 months upfront for uninterrupted power supply.

Secondly, for just a moment forget yourself and the benefits the sale will bring to you and the enhancement it will add to your bottom line. Focus your attention on the customer. Don’t sell him or her a product or service.

In my case what I am selling to my customers is not chin-chin, cakes or doughnut but I am selling her consistent profitability for her business. That is what I offer as against what my competitors are offering. This translates to the fact that I always ask the question; what does he or she stand to benefit from this transaction. The answer is that he has a well-made product that is acceptable in the market to sell quickly and profitably. So I am selling her a feeling of satisfaction that is drawn from high volume sales and profitability. Please note that in selling, you really don’t sell a product or service but a feeling. Even the bigger companies that are identified with certain brands are selling a feeling.

Perfume companies don’t sell fragrances. They only sell the feeling that comes from using the fragrance.

Luxury car dealers aren’t selling cars but the feeling of fulfillment that comes with identifying with a particular group that can afford that particular car.

An airline in selling First Class and Business class tickets is only selling style and distinction for those who seek to distinguished from the rest of the aircraft passengers even if they all take-off and land at the same time.

So next time you are selling chin-chin, cakes or doughnuts to the Mallam in the kiosk on your street, remember that what convinces him to buy is the fact that he will be able to make something from the sale for himself while satisfying his customers is secondary.

Karin...I love the way you usually lay it all out for your readers.... Good enough pasture for anyone will to ....take action.
Keep it up!

Brilliant as usual! I agree with all you said. Keep it coming ma.

I like your spirit madam. Your analyses made sense. I'm enjoying this. Keep it up. You're doing good.

Hello everyone,

I have been unavoidably absent for the last seven or more weeks.

I had to accompany my mum for a medical tourism experience to Apollo Hospital, Bangalore, India. I sincerely apologise for the suspense this created but do understand that it far from being intentional. While there it was virtually impossible for me to attend to this thread as my responsibilities widened extensively.

Do accept my heartfelt apologies for this impasse.

I returned on Monday 27th June and will only resume officially tomorrow. I will try to continue with the thread for as long as there is a reasonable active followership.

I must say that I did learn a few important lessons from my Indian experienced including but not limited to the following

1.There is a certain fulfilment that one draws from providing help especially one that that is totally altruistic and devoid of any form of reward.

2.Every profession is important. In a hospital for instance, the absence of cleaners, surgical attendants, ambulance drivers and even the stewards are so noticeably inconvenient that you cannot but marvel when you see the void their absence creates even in a few hours.

3.Doctors at various and different professional levels are very important. However, my opinion is that the all others in the medical chain are equally very important (in fact if not more important). I have really learnt to appreciate the importance of the entire medical career spectrum.

4.The Indian Medical system is now very popular and patronized globally. It isn’t only Nigerians that patronise the Indian medical tourism platform but it may surprise you that they are attracting a lot of Patronage from places like Western Europe and North America.

5.Most glaring was the fact that the standards of this hospital in terms of hygiene and general cleanliness, client attention, emergency response and professionalism could pass for what is obtainable all in the most developed dispensations of the world.

6.As Nigerians, one is inclined to think that the service provided in this hospital was a direct result of the remuneration of the staff. I established a relationship with some of the staff. My best friends were two sisters who were both on the staff of the hospital in different capacities (the elder is a surgeon and the younger is a Manager in Human Capital Administration). It is from this duo that I found out that the salaries of the personnel in this very private hospital was competitive with what the staff of a grade one Public hospital in Nigeria gets monthly. Of course there will be a few differences here and there but essentially the differences are infinitesimal

Welcome back, Madam Karin. Good to have you back. And how is your mum?! Thanks for sharing with us lessons you learnt on your trip. I have also learnt.

Thanks again. Looking forward to your posts...

MnenaSadiku:
Welcome back, Madam Karin. Good to have you back. And how is your mum?! Thanks for sharing with us lessons you learnt on your trip. I have also learnt.

Thanks again. Looking forward to your posts...

Hello my dear friend. Thanks, for the warm welcome. I remembered you a lot while I was away. I had really wanted to see you when I stopped over in Lagos but I had really missed my family I had to hurry and go back to them.

I did mention you in one of my business discussions while in Lagos and we deliberated on your matter at length.

Summarily, I have good news for you.

Baring all odds, I will chat with you later tonight if you are still awake.

Cheers and take good care of yourself.

Today I will resume hustling officially.

I will be off to the depot to familiarise myself with all the developments that have taken place in my absence. I will also make a deposit for a fresh supply of stock which all things being equal will arrive on Saturday or Sunday.

Later today I will brief you on what transpired in the course of the day.

I will also brief you on possibilities that currently exist in the trading milieu. Most importantly I found some new businesses that I want to explore. It is already functioning in Lagos but it is meant to undergo expansion by October. This implies that some new people will have a window of joining it in Lagos. As for Port Harcourt and Owerri, it will commence in October and be expanded by January 2017. Those interested may join in October. I will have to write in detail about this new concept. I am yet to decide however if it will be a corollary of this thread or if a fresh thread will be opened for it all together. I will keep you posted. It is a super business that starts with a minimal investment of about 50,000 or even less but assures of a minimum profit of about 5,000 daily and before 12 noon.

This daily net income can however only be attained after operating aggressively for at least 3 months.

I am hoping that I will be able to share with you this model during the Sallah Holidays. This model is however limited to those residing in Lagos and Rivers States only at least for now. Those in surrounding states of Ogun, Bayelsa, Abia, Imo and Enugu will be invited to join in January 2017 when the logistics would have made it favourable.