amicable09:

Lol. Really? Decker you make me laugh! Now I don't even know where to start from with you.

Uhm... There is a very thin line separating Miracle from Magic and what we have in Christendom experientially is the former. You may want to consult Google again.

Then God's time is the best Decker. I'm tempted to ask what led to your disbelief in God because really in your mind of minds you know He's the good big guy and something tells me it's because you felt your prayer for a particular thing wasn't answered. But the truth is this, He gives us the answer that's best for us.

About God knowing the end from the beginning, yea, he does. He knew the first man was going to disobey and that's why sending the man out of the garden didn't take him another 'process of creation', he didn't need to create a new place but a place outside of the garden was already prepared for man's survival.

Every single day, God provides daily bread for helpless children all around the world through governmental organizations and NGOs including individuals. Nothing stops you from also channeling part of his blessings to you to a hungry family. Here on Earth, we are the God most people will need to see. When Elisha made a prophesy that by this time tomorrow or so a barrel of fine flour will be sold at a very low price, a guy publicly mocked the prophecy. It happened like the Prophet declared but the man didn't live to eat of it. What do you have to say to that?

It will cost God nothing to turn the price of oil around overnight. It will cost him nothing to end world hunger. It will cost him nothing to answer prayers prayed for the wrong reasons. It will not cost him anything to do your wish so you can believe in him but he won't do it your way. He has his style planned already, to show his wonders.

I know you sincerely wanna make him believe in God. But note, you can never do it on your own. Decker you see today could be the next Paul tomorrow, if God so will.

For now, he has his own wisdom and you have yours. So, let it be.

Splinz:

I know you sincerely wanna make him believe in God. But note, you can never do it on your own. Decker you see today could be the next Paul tomorrow, if God so will.

For now, he has his own wisdom and you have yours. So, let it be.

Lol. Yes, you are right. He may be the next Paul, It's possible. But somehow, strangely enough I'm not trying to convert him, just trying to figure out where he stands.

amicable09:

Oh! I know the theme song for Frozen very well. Exactly as I suspected, a familiar song it is but the composer behind the song, I know not. I've known the name now. Thanks.

Soon it will be three days and three nights that we have been battling over this issue... lol, and the two of us are resolute in our belief. I must say this is good, like the first for me on NL, almost as if we are haggling over price of a commodity.

Over to the issue on ground, when God looks at a man or a child, what he sees is a generation. He doesn't look like you and I who see the present and past only but he sees into the distant future and nips a future catastrophe in the bud before it explodes.

When Herod commanded the execution of all male children under 5 or so, was he God? Did he do it by God's command? What was his driving force? He was threatened. His crown and throne was under threat and so he thought it wise to alienate 'suspects'.

God has always cared for everyone irrespective of tongue or tribe. Irrespective of the color of our skin and/or our gender but the bitter pill we must all swallow is that his love though equal for all but some are more equal than others in terms of receiving love treatment. The same way a parent will love all his children equally but one or two may enjoy certain additional privileges and bonuses than others. Does it mean the parent doesn't love the other ones? The answer is No.

That's the same way it is with God. But be rest assured that no one will ever ask of bread from him and he'll give the person stone. None will ask for fish and get serpent in its place. Look at the example of Cain, a murderer and a fugitive, after he left the presence of God we were told that he built a City. If God was cruel, what stopped him from striking Cain the moment Abel's blood cried out to him?

That's to say, God doesn't show up in a place bloodthirsty. His greatest wish is that we be in health and prosper, even as our soul prospers. A compassionate heart you can see clearly.

Almost forgot about the rape allegation, there is no record in the bible where it is said that those ladies that were preserved ended up being sex slaves to the Israelites. No place. If they had sex with them, I don't know but if they did, I believe it must have been mutually agreed upon. Rape was never tolerated in the land of Israel. Read the bible well, when Dinah was raped by Shekem, the rage of her brothers couldn't be contained. When Amnon raped his half sister - Tamar, you know what happened. Therefore I doubt strongly that those ladies were kept for such gruesome act.

You are welcome.

Well, it's because you are so blinded by your beliefs, you find it hard to see the truth in what I am saying. I was once like you. I couldn't imagine why anyone couldn't see how good and merciful God was. Lol. I couldn't even fathom how and why someone wouldn't believe in God. That he exists and that he answers prayers and loves us all. Whenever I saw someone trying to disprove God's existence, I pitied for the person deeply, and in my mind, the person was already a candidate of hell and an instrument of the devil.

You see how you contradict yourself. You claim God is compassionate yet you are saying that when he looks at a person, he sees a generation, and that he can kill babies just to evade a future tragedy. Now I throw this question to you: Would someone who has compassion kill children for any reason whatsoever? He is God, killing kids shouldn't be the only solution. He is all powerful and omniscience, and he has the power to alter the course of time, then he should be able to find another solution, instead of killing innocent children.

Why are you comparing Herod to God? God is all powerful. He should be able to device another means to curb the situation, instead of resorting to genocide. Sigh.

Haha. The bible says God isn't partial but you obviously just discredited the scripture which you believe as true. You just shot yourself in the foot by saying God favours a particular group of people to others.

Acts 10:34 New International Version (NIV)
34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism

And it baffles me how you will serve someone who obviously prefers a certain race to yours. Meaning if he was to choose between saving you or saving a Jew, he'd chose the Jew. Chai. Your so called protection isn't even guaranteed under God.

Doesn't it bother you that God expresses a personality that's so imperfect and human like? Yet you claim he is God? He displays favoritism. He gets jealous. He gets angry easily. He craves constant attention and adulation. Aren't these characteristics that make us humans imperfect and vulnerable?

No one would ask God for bread and he would give them stone? Really? Okay, a week a go, a family friend died after suffering an illness. Her godly family prayed for her everyday and asked God to heal her, but instead, he gave them death. Obviously, he didn't care about the woman's life and the effect of her death on her kids.

God has cared for everyone regardless of their skin color and nationality? Really? Why then did he endorse the wiping out of a whole nation, if he cared for them? Why is there poverty and hunger in various parts of the world today? Why are people dying like chickens everyday?

Saying God's wishes for us to be healthy and prosperous, is an indirect way of saying he isn't all powerful. Someone who has the power to do all things doesn't go around wishing. He just does stuff. He doesn't wish for stuff to happen. He makes it happen.

Now, Amicable, if I come to your house with a gun and kill your whole family, then take you to my house and force you to marry me and have sex with me whenever I want, would you be happy? Does what I did seem right to you? Would you be able to live with and have sex with the person who killed your whole family and friends? Do you justify such act?

Decker:


You are welcome.

Well, it's because you are so blinded by your beliefs, you find it hard to see the truth in what I am saying. I was once like you. I couldn't imagine why anyone couldn't see how good and merciful God was. Lol. I couldn't even fathom how and why someone wouldn't believe in God. That he exists and that he answers prayers and loves us all. Whenever I saw someone trying to disprove God's existence, I pitied for the person deeply, and in my mind, the person was already a candidate of hell and an instrument of the devil.

You see how you contradict yourself. You claim God is compassionate yet you are saying that when he looks at a person, he sees a generation, and that he can kill babies just to evade a future tragedy. Now I throw this question to you: Would someone who has compassion kill children for any reason whatsoever? He is God, killing kids shouldn't be the only solution. He is all powerful and omniscience, and he has the power to alter the course of time, then he should be able to find another solution, instead of killing innocent children.

Why are you comparing Herod to God? God is all powerful. He should be able to device another means to curb the situation, instead of resorting to genocide. Sigh.

Haha. The bible says God isn't partial but you obviously just discredited the scripture which you believe as true. You just shot yourself in the foot by saying God favours a particular group of people to others.

Acts 10:34 New International Version (NIV)
34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism

And it baffles me how you will serve someone who obviously prefers a certain race to yours. Meaning if he was to choose between saving you or saving a Jew, he'd chose the Jew. Chai. Your so called protection isn't even guaranteed under God.

Doesn't it bother you that God expresses a personality that's so imperfect and human like? Yet you claim he is God? He displays favoritism. He gets jealous. He gets angry easily. He craves constant attention and adulation. Aren't these characteristics that make us humans imperfect and vulnerable?

No one would ask God for bread and he would give them stone? Really? Okay, a week a go, a family friend died after suffering an illness. Her godly family prayed for her everyday and asked God to heal her, but instead, he gave them death. Obviously, he didn't care about the woman's life and the effect of her death on her kids.

God has cared for everyone regardless of their skin color and nationality? Really? Why then did he endorse the wiping out of a whole nation, if he cared for them? Why is there poverty and hunger in various parts of the world today? Why are people dying like chickens everyday?

Saying God's wishes for us to be healthy and prosperous, is an indirect way of saying he isn't all powerful. Someone who has the power to do all things doesn't go around wishing. He just does stuff. He doesn't wish for stuff to happen. He makes it happen.

Now, Amicable, if I come to your house with a gun and kill your whole family, then take you to my house and force you to marry me and have sex with me whenever I want, would you be happy? Does what I did seem right to you? Would you be able to live with and have sex with the person who killed your whole family and friends? Do you justify such act?

Finally I see your grievance. But it's alright. The reason we have more and more believers porting to atheism is because they never on their own doubted their belief and believed their doubts, so when the flood of indoctrination came, it swept them off.

I have personally sat down in the past, read contradictory stuff, questioned God and scorned my belief. I did that because I knew if I didn't do it with me, someone else will bring it to me and I will begin to consider, giving place to the devil. Today, having gone through that exercise of faith, I am persuaded that nothing will separate me from God's love. Nothing.

When my grandma died, a very devout Christian, she was christened Dorcas by her local assembly due to her devotion to the Church, but truth is, we didn't want her to die when she did. We prayed and trusted God for a miracle but she still died. Were we sad? Yes. Did we judge God unfaithful? No. Today, there is a cathedral built in her honor in my village and we take solace in the knowledge that she has gone to be with the Lord. Let her rest until we meet again to part no more. At least, scientist can't disprove that humans die but the disgruntled ones are quick to say it is God who killed the person.

We keep referring to deaths, hunger, poverty and all, what about life, good health, abundance, riches and all other good things millions around the world are enjoying? You obviously turned a blind eye on those and instead focus on the things you perceive as negative.

I know believers and preachers who are sick yet are still in the Faith. Some are gifted in the ministry of healing, healing others whereas they are sick. Look at the man Job in the bible, tell me, has any man on earth after him gone through half the stuff he's been through and still come out to say 'Though he (God) slay me, yet will I trust him'... Decker, whatever it is, you haven't met anyone who has suffered misfortune like that man and what became of him in the end? You know his testimony.

I'll end on this note, I happen to know a family in Lagos that lost their breadwinner (a pastor) in the North due to religious crisis when he went for an evangelical outreach. It's been six years since he died and I tell you without lies that the family (mother and three kids) are living large miraculously. They got an anonymous guy who has been paying the fees and taking care of everything that concerns the family and the woman has never met the man. They communicate via mails and he calls. Why did I tell you about this family? It is because you an outsider will judge God and call him adjectives not befitting for a God who has been our help in ages past and our hope in years to come.

Read the biography of the songwriter who composed the hymn titled, 'It is Well' and you'll understand that there is something in the bible referred to as 'the trying of our Faith', the purpose is to work out something in us.

I said in my last post that God loves us equally, I never said his love was partial. His love is just like George Orwell of Animal Farm said, 'All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others'. That's it!

amicable09:

Oh! I know the theme song for Frozen very well. Exactly as I suspected, a familiar song it is but the composer behind the song, I know not. I've known the name now. Thanks.

Soon it will be three days and three nights that we have been battling over this issue... lol, and the two of us are resolute in our belief. I must say this is good, like the first for me on NL, almost as if we are haggling over price of a commodity.

Over to the issue on ground, when God looks at a man or a child, what he sees is a generation. He doesn't look like you and I who see the present and past only but he sees into the distant future and nips a future catastrophe in the bud before it explodes.

When Herod commanded the execution of all male children under 5 or so, was he God? Did he do it by God's command? What was his driving force? He was threatened. His crown and throne was under threat and so he thought it wise to alienate 'suspects'.

God has always cared for everyone irrespective of tongue or tribe. Irrespective of the color of our skin and/or our gender but the bitter pill we must all swallow is that his love though equal for all but some are more equal than others in terms of receiving love treatment. The same way a parent will love all his children equally but one or two may enjoy certain additional privileges and bonuses than others. Does it mean the parent doesn't love the other ones? The answer is No.

That's the same way it is with God. But be rest assured that no one will ever ask of bread from him and he'll give the person stone. None will ask for fish and get serpent in its place. Look at the example of Cain, a murderer and a fugitive, after he left the presence of God we were told that he built a City. If God was cruel, what stopped him from striking Cain the moment Abel's blood cried out to him?

That's to say, God doesn't show up in a place bloodthirsty. His greatest wish is that we be in health and prosper, even as our soul prospers. A compassionate heart you can see clearly.

Almost forgot about the rape allegation, there is no record in the bible where it is said that those ladies that were preserved ended up being sex slaves to the Israelites. No place. If they had sex with them, I don't know but if they did, I believe it must have been mutually agreed upon. Rape was never tolerated in the land of Israel. Read the bible well, when Dinah was raped by Shekem, the rage of her brothers couldn't be contained. When Amnon raped his half sister - Tamar, you know what happened. Therefore I doubt strongly that those ladies were kept for such gruesome act.

Your points are annoyingly pretentious. Did u honestly asked were God killed anyone? Have u heard the story of Noah where God practically downed every one in the world, even innocent babies?
Someone goes to war and takes women for himself ... seriously you think the sex they would have would be based mutual understanding?
Really, how do you guys live with such hypocritic belief?

Nigerians have been praying for this country since I as a kid... look around you does it look like it is getting better? Now where a good man takes it upon himself to ensure that this country gets better you will quickly give the glory to God (an idea that will always remain in your head) but now that it is bad you are sure it is men at work. When good things happen your God suddenly jumps in and take the glory.
If God is loving,a world he created wouldn't be so cruel to even innocent infants who are born with tumours and disfigured.
Your Gods love is solely dependant on man's action... that's scam...

Frank317, the reason why I have continued to affirm my faith on this thread and exchanged posts with Decker is because he's mature and responsible enough not to attack my person and reduce our chat to petty name calling. Don't reduce an intelligent conversation to that please. I take exception to that.

Bring your points on the table and let's talk maturely but don't force your belief down my throat. I'm too old for that, I won't swallow it.

Thanks.

amicable09:

Finally I see your grievance. But it's alright. The reason we have more and more believers porting to atheism is because they never on their own doubted their belief and believed their doubts, so when the flood of indoctrination came, it swept them off.

I have personally sat down in the past, read contradictory stuff, questioned God and scorned my belief. I did that because I knew if I didn't do it with me, someone else will bring it to me and I will begin to consider, giving place to the devil. Today, having gone through that exercise of faith, I am persuaded that nothing will separate me from God's love. Nothing.

When my grandma died, a very devout Christian, she was christened Dorcas by her local assembly due to her devotion to the Church, but truth is, we didn't want her to die when she did. We prayed and trusted God for a miracle but she still died. Were we sad? Yes. Did we judge God unfaithful? No. Today, there is a cathedral built in her honor in my village and we take solace in the knowledge that she has gone to be with the Lord. Let her rest until we meet again to part no more. At least, scientist can't disprove that humans die but the disgruntled ones are quick to say it is God who killed the person.

We keep referring to deaths, hunger, poverty and all, what about life, good health, abundance, riches and all other good things millions around the world are enjoying? You obviously turned a blind eye on those and instead focus on the things you perceive as negative.

I know believers and preachers who are sick yet are still in the Faith. Some are gifted in the ministry of healing, healing others whereas they are sick. Look at the man Job in the bible, tell me, has any man on earth after him gone through half the stuff he's been through and still come out to say 'Though he (God) slay me, yet will I trust him'... Decker, whatever it is, you haven't met anyone who has suffered misfortune like that man and what became of him in the end? You know his testimony.

I'll end on this note, I happen to know a family in Lagos that lost their breadwinner (a pastor) in the North due to religious crisis when he went for an evangelical outreach. It's been six years since he died and I tell you without lies that the family (mother and three kids) are living large miraculously. They got an anonymous guy who has been paying the fees and taking care of everything that concerns the family and the woman has never met the man. They communicate via mails and he calls. Why did I tell you about this family? It is because you an outsider will judge God and call him adjectives not befitting for a God who has been our help in ages past and our hope in years to come.

Read the biography of the songwriter who composed the hymn titled, 'It is Well' and you'll understand that there is something in the bible referred to as 'the trying of our Faith', the purpose is to work out something in us.

I said in my last post that God loves us equally, I never said his love was partial. His love is just like George Orwell of Animal Farm said, 'All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others'. That's it!

Now u evaded every point he made and brought in a whole different issue.
This is why this discussion will take weeks with nothing achieved.
Stick to discussion.

Do you think if a man takes a girl after killing her family she would mutually agree to have sex with him? Would u?

Ya your grand ma died after you asked your God (whom you categorically said would not give u stone if u ask for bread) to give her life, yet she died. Is this an action u see as love?
No one said God killed your grand mum but he sure didn't answer ur prayer. True or false?

Living on even after the dead of the old woman is an inevitable thing. Naturally time heals but let me ask you, did you go partying right after she died or did you cry? Was your God happy when u grieved?

Having faith even when misfortune befalls you does not mean God answered any prayer.

amicable09:
Frank317, the reason why I have continued to affirm my faith on this thread and exchanged posts with Decker is because he's mature and responsible enough not to attack my person and reduce our chat to petty name calling. Don't reduce an intelligent conversation to that please. I take exception to that.

Bring your points on the table and let's talk maturely but don't force your belief down my throat. I'm too old for that, I won't swallow it.

Thanks.

Please point out where I called u names....do u think u others are not reading ur posts... I honestly think u are evading his points... I am not forcing anything down it throat. You can believe in myths and aliens for all I care but at least be honest about it.
Call a spade a spade...

frank317:


Please point out where I called u names....do u think u others are not reading ur posts... I honestly think u are evading his points... I am not forcing anything down it throat. You can believe in myths and aliens for all I care but at least be honest about it.
Call a spade a spade...

You started with, My points are annoyingly pretentious and you mentioned sth hypocrisy... that was too much of an abuse as I viewed it. All the same, no offence taken.

I haven't been deliberately evading any point like you wrongly accused me of, he writes very long stuff and I can't capture everything in my response at once. I read and respond. I don't reply his post line by line, I have no such luxury of time for that. If you check his replies too, you will observe the same trend. We've been writing long long stuff to each other and I understand there are others reading it, if they want clarity, they could have just pointed out where they feel I didn't satisfactorily answer a question in a polite way.

Tomorrow, I will reply your other mentions but note: you must not agree with my POV just take my responses in good faith and counter the words so we can enjoy a great debate.

Goodnight.

amicable09:

You started with, My points are annoyingly pretentious and you mentioned sth hypocrisy... that was too much of an abuse as I viewed it. All the same, no offence taken.

I haven't been deliberately evading any point like you wrongly accused me of, he writes very long stuff and I can't capture everything in my response at once. I read and respond. I don't reply his post line by line, I have no such luxury of time for that. If you check his replies too, you will observe the same trend. We've been writing long long stuff to each other and I understand there are others reading it, if they want clarity, they could have just pointed out where they feel I didn't satisfactorily answer a question in a polite way.

Tomorrow, I will reply your other mentions but note: you must not agree with my POV just take my responses in good faith and counter the words so we can enjoy a great debate.

Goodnight.

Annoyingly pretentious is not an insult... it is what I feel from reading your comments ... I needed to tell you so that you fall in line... it also sounds hypocritic . Imagine u even asked that he should name one place the Bible God killed a soul even after knowing the Noah's story. Then you think if someone takes a lady as a spoil of war, she would give have full consent to have sex with the person,so I asked...would you?
Again you say God is loving and kind and answers prayer yet you know God didn't answer your prayers for your grand mum and so because u were still able to cope you quickly forget that your request for her life was not granted... that's not honest.
I really can't tell if your evades are deliberate or not but how could u miss it? It seems you are more interested in concluding that he is angry with God than seeing his points.
Everything you have gone through... your coping mechanism, your happy life... all are what anyone can go through...

The question is what makes yours special? Why attribute good things to God and bad acts to man, yet when man does good act it suddenly becomes God that used them (like taking away the little boy's mountain)
You asked him to try to be good, but even if he does good you will still say God used him, yet u ignore his points that these acts are bound to happen weather we pray of not...

If you continue like this you will keep on going g in circles... stick to his points becasue he is perfectly sticking to urs.

frank317:


Annoyingly pretentious is not an insult... it is what I feel from reading your comments ... I needed to tell you so that you fall in line... it also sounds hypocritic . Imagine u even asked that he should name one place the Bible God killed a soul even after knowing the Noah's story. Then you think if someone takes a lady as a spoil of war, she would give have full consent to have sex with the person,so I asked...would you?
Again you say God is loving and kind and answers prayer yet you know God didn't answer your prayers for your grand mum and so because u were still able to cope you quickly forget that your request for her life was not granted... that's not honest.
I really can't tell if your evades are deliberate or not but how could u miss it? It seems you are more interested in concluding that he is angry with God than seeing his points.
Everything you have gone through... your coping mechanism, your happy life... all are what anyone can go through...

The question is what makes yours special? Why attribute good things to God and bad acts to man, yet when man does good act it suddenly becomes God that used them (like taking away the little boy's mountain)
You asked him to try to be good, but even if he does good you will still say God used him, yet u ignore his points that these acts are bound to happen weather we pray of not...

If you continue like this you will keep on going g in circles... stick to his points becasue he is perfectly sticking to urs.

In that case I have nothing to say to you. It makes no sense indulging you at all. You sound like I'm God, like I - Amicable owe you something. To the best of my knowledge I owe you Nada! Not an explanation, not a clarification.

I'm not liable for the meaning you read from my posts. Since you lack wisdom, comprehension or/and manner of approach, it's not my fault. Take your antagonism elsewhere.

amicable09:

In that case I have nothing to say to you. It makes no sense indulging you at all. You sound like I'm God, like I - Amicable owe you something. To the best of my knowledge I owe you Nada! Not an explanation, not a clarification.

I'm not liable for the meaning you read from my posts. Since you lack wisdom, comprehension or/and manner of approach, it's not my fault. Take your antagonism elsewhere.

Seriously, I really don't know what I said to deserve this reply. Any way, cheers.