The above assertion is common among Nler, the less charitable versions says he "bleeped" her and claims this must be so because they were married?

But we must ask ourselves was Joseph not a jew? or was he stupid?

"
Mary was consecrated to God's service, because her
body was His Heaven for nine months. She was the new
Ark of the Covenant. The house where Jesus lived was
the true Temple where God was constantly present.
Anything that was connected with God's service that was
touched, would require the toucher to ritually cleanse
himself before going back to normal human society.
Touching the Ark of the Covenant was instant death,
even if you meant well.
So let's ask ourselves (or let's have Joseph ask himself,
since he was a righteous man) what a Jewish man who
observed the Law righteously would do if God entrusted
him with the care of the Ark of the Covenant, or even
with one of the gold and silver vessels used in Temple
sacrifice? Would he use the gold and silver vessels as
normal dinnerware? Would that be a smart thing to do?
Would he do it with God Himself living right there?
Joseph would also have been fully familiar with Ezekiel's
vision of the New Temple in the New Jerusalem, where
the Lord entered through a gate that would then be
forever closed to all but Him. He would have seen Mary
give birth without the pain of labor, and heard the angels
sing.
Joseph was in the position of having the Ark of the
Covenant, not to mention GOD HIMSELF, living in his
house. He wasn't going to screw around with Mary,
literally or figuratively. He would guard her and care for
her and be her friend and brother, and he would protect
her and take her into his home as a husband should. But
he sure wasn't going to try and find out the hard way
what kind of horrible fate was reserved for someone who
entered the closed gate, where only the Lord was
allowed to pass.
I would also urge people to consult the story of
Absalom, and ask themselves why it would be such a big
deal that Absalom slept with David's wives. Likewise, ask
yourselves why it was a big deal which prince remarried
David's last, unconsummated wife, the Shunamite
woman. Why? Because sleeping with a king's wife meant
stealing his sovereignty (or if the king was dead, it was
an attempt to make yourself seen as his legal heir).
Sleeping with the mother of one of his children was even
more insulting, of course, because it made the paternity
uncertain; but the Shunamite woman's story shows that
even sleeping with a virgin wife was really really not
taken well, unless you really were the lawful king. (And if
you were the lawful king, you should be getting your
own wife, not doing some weird pagan thing. Marry the
old king's daughter, not his wife, duh.)
So why would Joseph have wanted to have sex with a
woman who was essentially God's wife (and mom),
unless he had wanted to tell God, "I'm going to usurp
your power and sleep with your woman, as part of my
new House of David World Domination Plan"? Yeah, that
would go over really really well.
Joseph was a righteous man. He was not a stupid man"

And Jesus's brothers and sisters?

Ubenedictus:
The above assertion is common among Nler, the less charitable versions says he "bleeped" her and claims this must be so because they were married?

But we must ask ourselves was Joseph not a jew? or was he stupid?

"
Mary was consecrated to God's service, because her
body was His Heaven for nine months. She was the new
Ark of the Covenant. The house where Jesus lived was
the true Temple where God was constantly present.
Anything that was connected with God's service that was
touched, would require the toucher to ritually cleanse
himself before going back to normal human society.
Touching the Ark of the Covenant was instant death,
even if you meant well.
So let's ask ourselves (or let's have Joseph ask himself,
since he was a righteous man) what a Jewish man who
observed the Law righteously would do if God entrusted
him with the care of the Ark of the Covenant, or even
with one of the gold and silver vessels used in Temple
sacrifice? Would he use the gold and silver vessels as
normal dinnerware? Would that be a smart thing to do?
Would he do it with God Himself living right there?
Joseph would also have been fully familiar with Ezekiel's
vision of the New Temple in the New Jerusalem, where
the Lord entered through a gate that would then be
forever closed to all but Him. He would have seen Mary
give birth without the pain of labor, and heard the angels
sing.
Joseph was in the position of having the Ark of the
Covenant, not to mention GOD HIMSELF, living in his
house. He wasn't going to screw around with Mary,
literally or figuratively. He would guard her and care for
her and be her friend and brother, and he would protect
her and take her into his home as a husband should. But
he sure wasn't going to try and find out the hard way
what kind of horrible fate was reserved for someone who
entered the closed gate, where only the Lord was
allowed to pass.
I would also urge people to consult the story of
Absalom, and ask themselves why it would be such a big
deal that Absalom slept with David's wives. Likewise, ask
yourselves why it was a big deal which prince remarried
David's last, unconsummated wife, the Shunamite
woman. Why? Because sleeping with a king's wife meant
stealing his sovereignty (or if the king was dead, it was
an attempt to make yourself seen as his legal heir).
Sleeping with the mother of one of his children was even
more insulting, of course, because it made the paternity
uncertain; but the Shunamite woman's story shows that
even sleeping with a virgin wife was really really not
taken well, unless you really were the lawful king. (And if
you were the lawful king, you should be getting your
own wife, not doing some weird pagan thing. Marry the
old king's daughter, not his wife, duh.)
So why would Joseph have wanted to have sex with a
woman who was essentially God's wife (and mom),
unless he had wanted to tell God, "I'm going to usurp
your power and sleep with your woman, as part of my
new House of David World Domination Plan"? Yeah, that
would go over really really well.
Joseph was a righteous man. He was not a stupid man"

He was never a stupid man for sleeping with Mary. she was his wife. You are the one who view that act as stupid, not God.

If someone is righteous he can no longer sleep with a woman? Or since Jehovah is the husbandly owner of Israel, none there should marry?

Since "your" body is the temple of God, you should remain single?

The saints are Christ's bride, they should all be single. shey?

I would expect u place scriptural reference to what you refer as Mary being Ark and wife of God. We might look at it together.

if Joseph did not sleep with Mary at all , how come Jesus had brothers and sisters.

what a pity ...so you type all this long epistle to display your ignorance.

JMAN05:


He was never a stupid man for sleeping with Mary. she was his wife. You are the one who view that act as stupid, not God.

If someone is righteous he can no longer sleep with a woman? Or since Jehovah is the husbandly owner of Israel, none there should marry?

Since "your" body is the temple of God, you should remain single?

The saints are Christ's bride, they should all be single. shey?

I would expect u place scriptural reference to what you refer as Mary being Ark and wife of God. We might look at it together.

What would u call God's baby mama?

I am d temple of God and i can go abt and eat unclean animals and touch blood etc and i wont be unclean, i am not a jew, BUT Joseph was a jew, a righteous one who followed d law, he knew about ritual cleanines, he also knew not to touch anytin dedicated to God.

If u were a jew who found out he had a temple relic consecrated to GOD in his house, will u use d relic in ur kitchen?

otipoju:
if Joseph did not sleep with Mary at all , how come Jesus had brothers and sisters.

what a pity ...so you type all this long epistle to display your ignorance.

I also have adephos (brethren) who aren't my mothers sons, How is dat strange?

now u are d one showing ignorance.

otipoju:
if Joseph did not sleep with Mary at all , how come Jesus had brothers and sisters.

what a pity ...so you type all this long epistle to display your ignorance.

Anything that was connected with
God's service that was touched, would require the toucher
to ritually cleanse
himself before going back to normal
human society.
Touching the Ark of the Covenant
was instant death, even if you meant well.
So let's ask ourselves (or let's have
Joseph ask himself,
since he was a righteous man) what
a Jewish man who
observed the Law righteously would do if God entrusted
him with the care of the Ark of the
Covenant, or even
with one of the gold and silver
vessels used in Temple
sacrifice? Would he use the gold and silver vessels as
normal dinnerware? Would that be a
smart thing to do?

^^ It must be hard to defend the indefensible. There are bible verses specifically mentioning Jesus' siblings; yet you pretend not to see it and to apply logic to the topic.

You just cant come to terms with the fact that holy mary was screwed in and out; doggie, missionary, cowgirl, reverse cowgirl by her beloved husband.

kpelle.

Sarassin:
And Jesus's brothers and sisters?

They were never calld children of mary, both phrases arent equivalent.

Ubenedictus:
They were never calld children of mary, both phrases arent equivalent.

Surely you are having a giggle. There is no evidence anywhere in the bible that Joseph (who likely passed away much sooner than Mary) married another wife, who do you suppose the mother of the brothers and sister of Jesus was? James the brother of Jesus went on to become the head of the Jerusalem church....as in ...not half-brother

Sarassin:


Surely you are having a giggle. There is no evidence anywhere in the bible that Joseph (who likely passed away much sooner than Mary) married another wife, who do you suppose the mother of the brothers and sister of Jesus was? James the brother of Jesus went on to become the head of the Jerusalem church....as in ...not half-brother

Actually joseph may have been married b4 mary, that isnt even my point.

the greek word the bible uses is adelphos it can mean a whole range of relations include half brothers, cousins, relations etc. and yes any of Jesus relation could have been bishop in jerusalem, dat doesnt make them mary's kids.

simplex2:
^^ It must be hard to defend the indefensible. There are bible verses specifically mentioning Jesus' siblings; yet you pretend not to see it and to apply logic to the topic.

You just cant come to terms with the fact that holy mary was screwed in and out; doggie, missionary, cowgirl, reverse cowgirl by her beloved husband.

kpelle.

I guess the discription of styles gives u some personal gratification.

did the bible mention mary's children apart 4rm Jesus?.

Ubenedictus:
I guess the discription of styles gives u some personal gratification.

did the bible mention mary's children apart 4rm Jesus?.

Matt 13:55 talked about his brothers James, Joses, Simon and Judas
vs 56 talked about his sisters.

Mark 6:3 Maintained the same names, except Judas which was turned to Juda, also talked about his numerous sisters.

Luke 8:19

Matt 12:46

Mark 3:31

...Should I continue or are you just playing dumb?

simplex2:




Matt 13:55 talked about his brothers James, Joses, Simon and Judas
vs 56 talked about his sisters.

Mark 6:3 Maintained the same names, except Judas which was turned to Juda, also talked about his numerous sisters.

Luke 8:19

Matt 12:46

Mark 3:31

...Should I continue or are you just playing dumb?

Is any of the called a child of mary?

Ubenedictus:
I also have adephos (brethren) who aren't my mothers sons, How is dat strange?

now u are d one showing ignorance.

OGBENI,if you do not know something try and keep quiet. Mary had other children. Jesus was told that his mother , brother and sisters wanted to see him ...while he used that instance to teach that brotherhood goes beyond blood ties. He acknowledged the FACT that they were his siblings.

Dont be clever by half. .

Ubenedictus:

Is any of the called a child of mary?

In a patriarchal society do you bear your Mothers surname ?
Is it recorded in the bible that Joseph had other wives?

Ubenedictus:

Is any of the called a child of mary?

No, mary gave them up for adoption after giving birth to them. That was why the were trekking all over Jerusalem and Judea looking for Jesus so he can help them find their real birthfather.

simplex2:


No, mary gave them up for adoption after giving birth to them. That was why the were trekking all over Jerusalem and Judea looking for Jesus so he can help them find their real birthfather.

Sacasm, this shows u have no point.

otipoju:


In a patriarchal society do you bear your Mothers surname ?
Is it recorded in the bible that Joseph had other wives?

The bible calls Jesus THE son of mary even though it is a patriachal society. palestine call their relatives brothers and sister, a cousin can be called a brother or sister, that is a fact.

that is why it is interesting that d bible didnt call his relatives mary's kids.

otipoju:


OGBENI,if you do not know something try and keep quiet. Mary had other children. Jesus was told that his mother , brother and sisters wanted to see him ...while he used that instance to teach that brotherhood goes beyond blood ties. He acknowledged the FACT that they were his siblings.

Dont be clever by half. .

DO U KNOW THE GREEK WORD USED IN DAT PASSAGE AND ITS RANGE OF MEANING?

IF u did u wouldnt conclude that it means mary had other kids.

Ubenedictus:
Sacasm, this shows u have no point.

Or it shows I'd rather watch paint dry than engage you in your crappy-bible twisting charade.

John 19:25 talks of Mary's sister who was also mary. Could Mary's parents have had two daughters and named both Mary? Also Genesis 13:8 and 14:12 talk about Abraham and Lot as brothers but we know they are actually uncle and nephew. Fact is that the word brethren was used to mean many different relationships even outside biological relationship even Mathew 23:8 ask us to called one another brother. How can one then conclude for fact that the brother mentioned in Mathew 13:55-56 and Mathew 1:24-25 actually meant biological brother. This, I think is the question that is yet to be answered by those who quickly dismiss the perpetual virginity of Mary.

Geist:
John 19:25 talks of Mary's sister who was also mary. Could Mary's parents have had two daughters and named both Mary? Also Genesis 13:8 and 14:12 talk about Abraham and Lot as brothers but we know they are actually uncle and nephew. Fact is that the word brethren was used to mean many different relationships even outside biological relationship even Mathew 23:8 ask us to called one another brother. How can one then conclude for fact that the brother mentioned in Mathew 13:55-56 and Mathew 1:24-25 actually meant biological brother. This, I think is the question that is yet to be answered by those who quickly dismiss the perpetual virginity of Mary.

This doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary is spurious and mere wishful thinking. On what planet does a first century Palestinian woman remain a perpetual virgin? It was impossible.

Ubenedictus:
The above assertion is common among Nler, the less charitable versions says he "bleeped" her and claims this must be so because they were married?

But we must ask ourselves was Joseph not a jew? or was he stupid?

"
Mary was consecrated to God's service, because her
body was His Heaven for nine months. She was the new
Ark of the Covenant. The house where Jesus lived was
the true Temple where God was constantly present.
Anything that was connected with God's service that was
touched, would require the toucher to ritually cleanse
himself before going back to normal human society.
Touching the Ark of the Covenant was instant death,
even if you meant well.
So let's ask ourselves (or let's have Joseph ask himself,
since he was a righteous man) what a Jewish man who
observed the Law righteously would do if God entrusted
him with the care of the Ark of the Covenant, or even
with one of the gold and silver vessels used in Temple
sacrifice? Would he use the gold and silver vessels as
normal dinnerware? Would that be a smart thing to do?
Would he do it with God Himself living right there?
Joseph would also have been fully familiar with Ezekiel's
vision of the New Temple in the New Jerusalem, where
the Lord entered through a gate that would then be
forever closed to all but Him. He would have seen Mary
give birth without the pain of labor, and heard the angels
sing.
Joseph was in the position of having the Ark of the
Covenant, not to mention GOD HIMSELF, living in his
house. He wasn't going to screw around with Mary,
literally or figuratively. He would guard her and care for
her and be her friend and brother, and he would protect
her and take her into his home as a husband should. But
he sure wasn't going to try and find out the hard way
what kind of horrible fate was reserved for someone who
entered the closed gate, where only the Lord was
allowed to pass.
I would also urge people to consult the story of
Absalom, and ask themselves why it would be such a big
deal that Absalom slept with David's wives. Likewise, ask
yourselves why it was a big deal which prince remarried
David's last, unconsummated wife, the Shunamite
woman. Why? Because sleeping with a king's wife meant
stealing his sovereignty (or if the king was dead, it was
an attempt to make yourself seen as his legal heir).
Sleeping with the mother of one of his children was even
more insulting, of course, because it made the paternity
uncertain; but the Shunamite woman's story shows that
even sleeping with a virgin wife was really really not
taken well, unless you really were the lawful king. (And if
you were the lawful king, you should be getting your
own wife, not doing some weird pagan thing. Marry the
old king's daughter, not his wife, duh.)
So why would Joseph have wanted to have sex with a
woman who was essentially God's wife (and mom),
unless he had wanted to tell God, "I'm going to usurp
your power and sleep with your woman, as part of my
new House of David World Domination Plan"? Yeah, that
would go over really really well.
Joseph was a righteous man. He was not a stupid man"

the scriptures says jesus did not know Mary until she gave birth to jesus, after that , it would be expected of JosEph to fufill his husbandLy dues. He has the backing of gods law guiding marriage, of gods law guiding pro- creation, of the Mosaic Law and the teachings of the apostles, he had broken no law if he sleeps with HIS WIFE!

Sarassin:


This doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary is spurious and mere wishful thinking. On what planet does a first century Palestinian woman remain a perpetual virgin? It was impossible.

Sir, you did a nice dodging my question. Based on what have you arrived at the bolded. The bold is in fact what seems to be spurious and outlandish.

Geist:
Sir, you did a nice dodging my question. Based on what have you arrived at the bolded. The bold is in fact what seems to be spurious and outlandish.

No sir, no dodging here, Paul is very clear in Gal 1:18-19 "........I saw none of the other apostles, only James, the Lord's brother"
Paul's statement is clear, concise and not open to misinterpretation.

Ubenedictus:
DO U KNOW THE GREEK WORD USED IN DAT PASSAGE AND ITS RANGE OF MEANING?

IF u did u wouldnt conclude that it means mary had other kids.

Okay.. what is the greek word and its meaning ?
Let me listen to your theory.

simplex2:


No, mary gave them up for adoption after giving birth to them. That was why the were trekking all over Jerusalem and Judea looking for Jesus so he can help them find their real birthfather.

Sorry...did you take something?

Sarassin:


No sir, no dodging here, Paul is very clear in Gal 1:18-19 "........I saw none of the other apostles, only James, the Lord's brother"
Paul's statement is clear, concise and not open to misinterpretation.

why have you concluded for certain that brother used in the Bible mean biological brother when in fact other passages have used the same words to describe other relationships. That is what you have failed to answer. The way I see it, quoting passages that makes reference to the brothers of Jesus is not enough to conclude that Mary had other kids in light of the bolded.

Ubenedictus:
What would u call God's baby mama?

I am d temple of God and i can go abt and eat unclean animals and touch blood etc and i wont be unclean, i am not a jew, BUT Joseph was a jew, a righteous one who followed d law, he knew about ritual cleanines, he also knew not to touch anytin dedicated to God.

If u were a jew who found out he had a temple relic consecrated to GOD in his house, will u use d relic in ur kitchen?

You ve not shown me the scripture that calls her the ark of God. If this is what you reached cos you view him God's baby mama, then that is your word, not God's.

I still wonder how you came about the baby mama. Jesus has been existing in heaven before coming to earth. In heaven he has been God's son. God never impregnated anybody to give birth to Jesus. I tot you call Jesus ur God, was ur your God given birth to? meaning he has a beginning? If you agree that the birth is here on earth, you will agree that Jesus had been God's son in heaven even before coming to earth. Who now gave birth to him in heaven?

It is Joseph who could say Mary is the mother of my baby ie the foster father of Jesus. God had for long had him as a son in heaven.

2. Jeremiah 3:14[ASV] says Jehovah is the husband of Israel. KJV says that God is married unto them. Did this prevent them from marrying? Remember that Israel is a dedicated nation to God. A holy nation.

The spiritual Israelites, the true Christians are Jesus' bride. 2cor 11:2. does this mean they wont marry?

Of course if you pollute yourself with idols, that is wrong as 2Cor. 6:16 says, but in the previous letter to this same congregation, Paul exhorted some who wish to; to marry. 1cor 7:36. He says that that is not a sin. It is never defiling to marry. In fact in verse 3 of that chapter 7, Paul stated that couples should give the marital due. Do you think this would defile there marriage to christ when they do it?

True Christians are a holy nation (1pet 2:9), yet they marry. Do not view something as defiled when God never did so. God never viewed marital sex as a defiling practice. It will be wrong to view Joseph as defiling Mary's holiness by sleeping with her. After all, both Mary and Joseph are among the holy people of Israel. A nation whose law never banned sex for married couples. Sex for them was not a defilement.

Joseph wouldnt be unrighteous if he slept with his wife.

Poor Joseph, his wife is raped by God while he can't even touch her

Geist:
why have you concluded for certain that brother used in the Bible mean biological brother when in fact other passages have used the same words to describe other relationships. That is what you have failed to answer. The way I see it, quoting passages that makes reference to the brothers of Jesus is not enough to conclude that Mary had other kids in light of the bolded.

In the same vein you cannot demonstrate that Mary did not in fact give birth to other children apart from Jesus. But Matthew 1:25 indicates that Joseph had intimate relations with his wife Mary after the birth of Jesus, therefore the issue of Mary being a perpetual virgin living in lonely orgasmic splendour is spurious at best and misleading at worst. On a balance of probabilities it is more likely than not that Mary, as would have been expected of her, particularly amidst claims of a prior immaculate conception would have borne other children too.

The bible in quite a few cases does make distinctions for familial clarification, for instance Genesis 37:2 is a clear reference to Joseph and his half-brothers distinguished by the mention of the names of of Jacob's other wives. There is not the merest of hints that Joseph, father of Jesus had another wife or children prior to the birth of Jesus. Also you seem to hang your gripe on the use of the word “brother” would you then say that the "Zebedee Brothers" were not full blood siblings because the term "brother" has had other usage? generalisations do not always apply in every instance.

The implications of Mary being a perpetual virgin, meaning that Joseph died without a blood child is of huge significance largely ignored by Catholics. This is just a clear case of Catholics reverse-engineering biblical events to fit ill-conceived dogma.