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Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by KingEbukasBlog(m): 8:40pm On May 30, 2016
ValentineMary:

Why would God have to make d universe chaotic and fine tune a particular section I can't purposely make all my stations unclear just to put myself through d stress of fine tuning a particular station. Unless I did not make d T.V and antenna perfectly

This world was designed for temporal use . A new world will emerge as presciently written in the bible
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by sukkot: 8:42pm On May 30, 2016
KingEbukasBlog:


Your long absence from Nairaland means serving a ban tongue tongue
Yup Chief Ebuka. you know how it is ? give a black man power and he has a throbbing hard-on and is looking to fork anybody. yeah I fell victim to a very randy negro. got violated with a 2 week ban. ahh welll cheesy

trust you are well

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Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by ifenes(m): 8:44pm On May 30, 2016
Does God exist? : A question for anxious and insecure folks. Meant for desperadoes and weak people usually called Christians
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by ValentineMary(m): 8:45pm On May 30, 2016
KingEbukasBlog:


So has the knowledge of this been used to replicate DNA formation in the lab , not synthetic ones ?
U have a wierd way of thinking bro. To replicate d system of pre biotic chemistry, we would have to go back to d original state of d earth which is not possible. But we can mimic it in the lab. And yes DNA has been made from scrath in d lab.
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by ValentineMary(m): 8:45pm On May 30, 2016
KingEbukasBlog:


This world was designed for temporal use . A new world will emerge as presciently written in the bible
PROVE IT grin
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by sukkot: 8:47pm On May 30, 2016
KingEbukasBlog:


God made the rules . Try to be coherent next time please .



What's your point exactly ?



An evolutionist's view .
cheesy cheesy

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Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by ifenes(m): 8:47pm On May 30, 2016
And who is a Christian? A beaten and abused child who has lost all confidence in him/herself. Someone weak, easily manipulated, foolish, timid, scared of Devils, witches and wizards, even his/her own shadow. A fool waiting for Jesus to return.
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by winner01(m): 8:53pm On May 30, 2016
ValentineMary:

Why would God have to make d universe chaotic and fine tune a particular section I can't purposely make all my stations unclear just to put myself through d stress of fine tuning a particular station. Unless I did not make d T.V and antenna perfectly
Looks chaotic to man simply because it is not his system., His system is perfect for him...

You may build a perfect house fully Air conditioned and then set up a poultry section for day old chicks. You may make use of the normal woodshavings, heat or warmth, feeders and troughs to grow the chicks e.t.c. Then a chick finds its way out and wonders why everywhere is cold, slippery, and uncondusive for its survival.


God created the system, and finetuned his system for one of his creations. Its the obvious.

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Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by KingEbukasBlog(m): 8:53pm On May 30, 2016
ValentineMary:

U have a wierd way of thinking bro. To replicate d system of pre biotic chemistry, we would have to go back to d original state of d earth which is not possible. But we can mimic it in the lab. And yes DNA has been made from scrath in d lab.

Its not weird actually , its thinking differently in a good way .

1. So how was the DNA made from the scratch in the lab ? ( Not the synthetic DNA of course)

2. You claim the earth was in such a way perhaps conducive for the DNA to develop . Can you provide a simulacrum of how they earth looked like at that time ?

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Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by sukkot: 8:54pm On May 30, 2016
ifenes:
And who is a Christian? A beaten and abused child who has lost all confidence in him/herself. Someone weak, easily manipulated, foolish, timid, scared of Devils, witches and wizards, even his/her own shadow. A fool waiting for Jesus to return.
its a good question.
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by KingEbukasBlog(m): 8:55pm On May 30, 2016
ifenes:
And who is a Christian? A beaten and abused child who has lost all confidence in him/herself. Someone weak, easily manipulated, foolish, timid, scared of Devils, witches and wizards, even his/her own shadow. A fool waiting for Jesus to return.

And who is an atheist ? A beaten and abused child who is diffident . Someone weak, easily manipulated, foolish, timid, scared of God and even his/her own shadow. A poltroon who mocks what he claims does not exist .

1 Like

Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by KingEbukasBlog(m): 8:59pm On May 30, 2016
winner01:
Looks chaotic to man simply because it is not his system., His system is perfect for him...

You may build a perfect house fully Air conditioned and then set up a poultry section for day old chicks. You may make use of the normal woodshavings, heat or warmth, feeders and troughs to grow the chicks e.t.c. Then a chick finds its way out and wonders why everywhere is cold, slippery, and uncondusive for its survival.


God created the system, and finetuned his system for one of his creations. Its the obvious.

This is some way similar to what I said in some thread . The universe may seem to have emerged through random , chaotic , chance-dependent processes to an observer but not that way to the designer . His purpose is to create a system capable of producing desired results . Are we seeing these results ? yes !

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Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by KingEbukasBlog(m): 9:06pm On May 30, 2016
sukkot:
Yup Chief Ebuka. you know how it is ? give a black man power and he has a throbbing hard-on and is looking to fork anybody. yeah I fell victim to a very randy negro. got violated with a 2 week ban. ahh welll cheesy

trust you are well

We thank God for everything .

I was banned for a week . Why ? I made a random comment , no quote ... no mention ... and an insecure atheist felt I was referring to him . There was no proof whatsoever that I was referring to anyone .
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by KingEbukasBlog(m): 9:16pm On May 30, 2016
ValentineMary:

PROVE IT grin

A forewarning can be proven only when it comes to pass . Science has already claimed the universe may run down but the bible before this discovery has already foreseen the demise of this universe and foretold a new one and a new earth and- the Heaven in which God and man will live together forever.

Actually , science feels the universe may regenerate energy when it runs down . More like re-birthing itself . Hmm . This bible of ours ehh . But this would be trillions of years later . God will likely expedite the process - you know , the imperious control over nature cool - when he feels that its time up .

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Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by sukkot: 9:16pm On May 30, 2016
KingEbukasBlog:


We thank God for everything .

I was banned for a week . Why ? I made a random comment , no quote ... no mention ... and an insecure atheist felt I was referring to him . There was no proof whatsoever that I was referring to anyone .
yeah too many sensitive negros these days. since negros started wearing tight trousers they have gotten very sensitive.

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Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by ValentineMary(m): 9:35pm On May 30, 2016
KingEbukasBlog:


A forewarning can be proven only when it comes to pass . Science has already claimed the universe may run down but the bible before this discovery has already foreseen the demise of this universe and foretold a new one and a new earth and- the Heaven in which God and man will live together forever.

Actually , science feels the universe may regenerate energy when it runs down . More like re-birthing itself . Hmm . This bible of ours ehh . But this would be trillions of years later . God will likely expedite the process - you know , the imperious control over nature cool - when he feels that its time up .
[i] It's funny actually because u are one of those that have publicly said u don't believe in scientific theories. Why d sudden change
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by KingEbukasBlog(m): 9:37pm On May 30, 2016
ValentineMary:

[i] It's funny actually because u are one of those that have publicly said u don't believe in scientific theories. Why d sudden change

Any godless science theory is false . cool

2 Likes

Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by ValentineMary(m): 9:40pm On May 30, 2016
KingEbukasBlog:


Its not weird actually , its thinking differently in a good way .

1. So how was the DNA made from the scratch in the lab ? ( Not the synthetic DNA of course)

2. You claim the earth was in such a way perhaps conducive for the DNA to develop . Can you provide a simulacrum of how they earth look like at that time ?
1. Use google

2. Use google again.

I must not always educate u.

1 Like

Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by ValentineMary(m): 9:43pm On May 30, 2016
winner01:
Looks chaotic to man simply because it is not his system., His system is perfect for him...

You may build a perfect house fully Air conditioned and then set up a poultry section for day old chicks. You may make use of the normal woodshavings, heat or warmth, feeders and troughs to grow the chicks e.t.c. Then a chick finds its way out and wonders why everywhere is cold, slippery, and uncondusive for its survival.


God created the system, and finetuned his system for one of his creations. Its the obvious.
I wonder what type of organisms are in Jupitar or Pluto.
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by donnffd(m): 9:44pm On May 30, 2016
Winner01...Nice post you have there, almost had me convinced but as usual, there are flaws to your argument

Finetuning

For you to claim the universe is fine-tuned, you must first have a distribution of universes to compare. You only have a sample size of one,so how the hell can you claim by all means that the universe was fine tuned...its like finding a snowflake and claiming since its finely structured, it must be a special one and must have been tuned without comparing it with other snowflakes

Irreducible complexity

I was certain you would come up with the eye and how it cannot arise from evolution by blind luck and random chance. One thing you dont understand is that evolution is not by blind luck and random chance,it is the opposite of chance, random mutations occur yes, but the filtering mechanism is very specific(Natural selection).
Heres a series of eyes that shows that its far from being irreducible complex

Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by winner01(m): 10:11pm On May 30, 2016
donnffd:
Winner01...Nice post you have there, almost had me convinced but as usual, there are flaws to your argument

Finetuning

For you to claim the universe is fine-tuned, you must first have a distribution of universes to compare. You only have a sample size of one,so how the hell can you claim by all means that the universe was fine tuned...its like finding a snowflake and claiming since its finely structured, it must be a special one and must have been tuned without comparing it with other snowflakes

Observable evidence is what prompted scientists to conclude that the universe is fine tuned. They were simply working base on available evidence.

Need i see other watches before i assume that one was consciously designed?


donnffd:


Irreducible complexity

I was certain you would come up with the eye and how it cannot arise from evolution by blind luck and random chance. One thing you dont understand is that evolution is not by blind luck and random chance,it is the opposite of chance, random mutations occur yes, but the filtering mechanism is very specific(Natural selection).
Heres a series of eyes that shows that its far from being irreducible complex


You missed this part in the article:

"A common objection to the use of the eye as an example of irreducible complexity is that there are a number of different kinds of eyes found in nature and they exhibit a wide variety of complexity. This observation is used to make a case for evolution. But what we see in nature is not a series of steps in an evolutionary chain. Rather, we see a variety of irreducibly complex biological machines that have the same basic function".

I suggest you re-read that part.

1 Like

Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by winner01(m): 10:12pm On May 30, 2016
ValentineMary:

I wonder what type of organisms are in Jupitar or Pluto.
Earth is your home.
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by Strawman: 10:23pm On May 30, 2016
Oh my God.. winner01, I used the "Fine Tuning" argument to win a debate against some atheists in school, and here I am, looking at a more detailed version shocked

How much insult I could've added to injury back then grin

1 Like

Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by donnffd(m): 10:26pm On May 30, 2016
winner01:
Observable evidence is what prompted scientists to conclude that the universe is fine tuned. They were simply working base on available evidence.

Scientists ddnt conclude that the universe is fine-tuned, it was creationists that did that...yes the evidence shows that if the fundamental parameters were changed, the universe wouldnot be here but the fine tuners assume that life is the end goal of the universe and there is no reason whatsoever to support that assumption.

Need i see other watches before i assume that one was consciously designed?

The universe is not a watch, it is very chaotic and very very hostile to life, and it evolves on its own, so i ask again, how can you assume it is fine tuned when you dont have a distribution of universes to compare with?



You missed this part in the article:

"A common objection to the use of the eye as an example of irreducible complexity is that there are a number of different kinds of eyes found in nature and they exhibit a wide variety of complexity. This observation is used to make a case for evolution. But what we see in nature is not a series of steps in an evolutionary chain. Rather, we see a variety of irreducibly complex biological machines that have the same basic function".

Pardon me, you dont expect me to read all long post, but if you can have incremental versions of complex eyes, then why cant it have evolved also? Doesnt that sound like intellectual dishonesty?
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by winner01(m): 10:50pm On May 30, 2016
donnffd:


Pardon me, you dont expect me to read all long post.
Who are Scientists and who are creationists? I wonder what you people think of Newton, pascal, boyle, herschel and others. You should start by reading the post first.
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by winner01(m): 10:54pm On May 30, 2016
Strawman:
Oh my God.. winner01, I used the "Fine Tuning" argument to win a debate against some atheists in school, and here I am, looking at a more detailed version shocked

How much insult I could've added to injury back then grin
ehyaa grin grin. You could have knocked them out.
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by Nobody: 10:59pm On May 30, 2016
ValentineMary:

I wonder what type of organisms are in Jupitar or Pluto.
Hey girl. don't sweat it. Did the believe in a god because of the argument from design?
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by donnffd(m): 11:23pm On May 30, 2016
winner01:
Who are Scientists and who are creationists? I wonder what you people think of Newton, pascal, boyle, herschel and others. You should start by reading the post first.

You can be a scientist and believe in God, no doubt about that, but when you claim that scientists concluded that the universe is fine tuned, thats just plainly wrong.

What i mean by creationists are apologetics that argue that God created the universe and science can prove it.

As for calling the names of scientists that believe in God, i said it earlier, you can be a theist and do science as long as your science is not influenced by your believes, and i am pretty sure if isaac newton lived in our present day where we have a full naturalistic explanation of the diversity of life, gravity, and many other phenomenon that wasnt explained during his time, he probably would have dumped the idea of a personal God .

I did read the post, nothing new i havent seen before
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by davien(m): 11:42pm On May 30, 2016
So the day humans made tools that followed the rules of the physical world was when god started existing? undecided

[b] THE DESIGN ARGUMENT FALLS FLAT ON ITS OWN HEAD

1. A is an object known to be human designed... okay.

2. B is an object not human designed but has assemblance of A... therefore designed? grin Nope.

3. No being that humans are the only known beings that design... right down to the *cough* poo book bible/quran that are claimed to be revelations of supernatural beings..

4. To infer another being that designs one has to give evidence...

5. Complexity is irrelevant if one can't pin it to a known source, how you may ask? Simple...

Ask yourself how you know what a drawing is... are you done? What was the answer?
Because a drawing is "too complex" to come by chance or natural processes?

Why is it too complex?... Because you know and have witnessed human artists make drawings or you know every atom in the universe can't arrange into a drawing without a physical mind responsible for it? grin

When you say something is "too much" of something else,you are indirectly saying you have witnessed or can prove what the right amount of it is or is necessary for it to be... So has any design proponent witnessed or proved any mind apart from human minds and cause and effect creating anything?

Either case one doesn't make wild assumptions beyond the scope of physical entities because that is the only one capable of being sought or investigated and even known in the first..

A compilation of X can't do A won't make Y a possibility, one has to prove it.

[/b]

1 Like

Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by ValentineMary(m): 5:39am On May 31, 2016
Julianyao:

Hey girl. don't sweat it. Did the believe in a god because of the argument from design?
It's mister. And I don't get ur question.
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by ValentineMary(m): 5:43am On May 31, 2016
winner01:
Earth is your home.
What am saying is that most part of d observed universe can't accomodate life because of how chaotic they are. eg the great red dot at Jupiter, etc. So if it would mean that this intelligent creator made an infinitely vast land just to waste it.
Re: Does GOD Exist? "The Design Argument". by KingEbukasBlog(m): 9:31am On May 31, 2016
davien:
So the day humans made tools that followed the rules of the physical world was when god started existing? undecided

[b] THE DESIGN ARGUMENT FALLS FLAT ON ITS OWN HEAD

1. A is an object known to be human designed... okay.

2. B is an object not human designed but has assemblance of A... therefore designed? grin Nope.

3. No being that humans are the only known beings that design... right down to the *cough* poo book bible/quran that are claimed to be revelations of supernatural beings..

4. To infer another being that designs one has to give evidence...

5. Complexity is irrelevant if one can't pin it to a known source, how you may ask? Simple...

Ask yourself how you know what a drawing is... are you done? What was the answer?
Because a drawing is "too complex" to come by chance or natural processes?

Why is it too complex?... Because you know and have witnessed human artists make drawings or you know every atom in the universe can't arrange into a drawing without a physical mind responsible for it? grin

When you say something is "too much" of something else,you are indirectly saying you have witnessed or can prove what the right amount of it is or is necessary for it to be... So has any design proponent witnessed or proved any mind apart from human minds and cause and effect creating anything?

Either case one doesn't make wild assumptions beyond the scope of physical entities because that is the only one capable of being sought or investigated and even known in the first..

A compilation of X can't do A won't make Y a possibility, one has to prove it.

[/b]


A gallimaufry of thoughts . Any evidence man created the Christian God . So because you did not witness the design of something means the designer does not exist ? Did you witness the universe creating itself ? Why do you think a science theory like directed panspermia exists

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