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Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU - Travel (4) - Nairaland

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Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Reference(m): 8:23pm On Jul 01, 2016
cramjones:
Was this another route Goodluck Jonathan planned to steal $5billion from this phony project? Why is PMB not revising the contract? Who now takes the extra 4 - 5$ billion, because we all know it wont cost 11.2Billion>

Before you all crucify me. Kindly look at the average cost of Chinese Construction of railines from the well respected Railway Finance website http://www.railway-technical.com/finance.shtml

This is not an underground rail line neither is it a high-speed. Let us even assume it is high speed, we are looking at $10 million per kilometer.

Even at the price, if we take 800km to be the total distance, we are looking at $8billion at most. Who steals the remaining $5 billion?

Nigeria is a dead country. I continue to say this. We are a dead nation. Even after "spending" all that money we may not even see the rail way. Just imagine what someone is planning to steal in the name of change?

Again, I repeat, Nigeria is sunken ship. We are a dead nation. No hope for a corrupt cesspit!

-CramJones


The cost of doing business in Nigeria is higher than in most parts of the world due to the very reason the rail line is built, lack of infrastructure. Add to that the cost of security and the cost of a fragile economy. The main ingredient in rail lines is high strength steel. All those countries mentioned have a viable steel sector, we don't. Ajaokuta which should have capitalised on these projects to establish itself is moribund. Secondly, the terrain in most places the line will pass is tough, semi swamp land. The sheer number of bridges and culverts to be built will rival costs of tunneling and blasting through mountainous regions. Nigeria is expensive to build corruption apart.

When we were saying they should open up other seaports outside Lagos to commercial activities and allow those already built to thrive, the owners of Nigeria under influence said they prefer a Lagos monopoly. Guess what, every tax payer will pay the 'sentimental tax' through 300, 500, 800, 1000 kilometer haulage costs of Chinese steel from Apapa to site locations perhaps just 20, 50, 100 kilometers from the nearest port of Calabar, Warri or Portharcourt. This is the real corruption.

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Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by obailala(m): 8:24pm On Jul 01, 2016
ayoolanr:


Can someone follow up on this dude's cost analysis? There has to be accountability.
Someone has already clarified that (see quote below). The proposed railway is way longer than 800km which Cramjones used in his estimate. The project goes through Benin-sapele-Warri-Ughelli-Yenagoa-Otuoke-Yenagoa to PH-Aba-Uyo-Calabar; that's a much longer route than the 800km route which was put up there.

Also remember the generic amount quoted by the contractor per km does not include the cost of compensation to land owners which the govt has to pay. I doubt that generic figure per km also takes account of the most difficult swampy terrain of the Niger-Delta route. Even the proposed rail route from Lagos to Kano which is much longer actually cost much less than this Lagos-Calabar cos of the difference in terrain.

AnonyNymous:

I'm sorry but you're wrong.
First of all, you didnt even take into account the type of terrain we have in Nigeria.
Secondly, that thing you took a screenshot of from google maps is NOT the path of the rail way. Gogle maps just takes the shortest existing route. Its being designed to go through all the major cities and is not just going to be "748km" but 1,402km.
I understand that it is good to be critical of a government but ask questions about things you dont know about, rather than making assumptions like that.
Even if you dont support the party of the president, you should be able to commend good works.
As far as I'm concerned, this was a very good deal.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3913884_rail_jpegd3223d74035a01c6eba7ac8add1e9461
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by willyo(m): 8:29pm On Jul 01, 2016
Jorussia:
Bros i have modified my comment.

Aiit Boss... grin
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Fadahunsi(m): 8:51pm On Jul 01, 2016
cramjones:
Was this another route Goodluck Jonathan planned to steal $5billion from this phony project? Why is PMB not revising the contract? Who now takes the extra 4 - 5$ billion, because we all know it wont cost 11.2Billion>

[s]Before you all crucify me. Kindly look at the average cost of Chinese Construction of railines from the well respected Railway Finance website http://www.railway-technical.com/finance.shtml

This is not an underground rail line neither is it a high-speed. Let us even assume it is high speed, we are looking at $10 million per kilometer.

Even at the price, if we take 800km to be the total distance, we are looking at $8billion at most. Who steals the remaining $5 billion?

Nigeria is a dead country. I continue to say this. We are a dead nation. Even after "spending" all that money we may not even see the rail way. Just imagine what someone is planning to steal in the name of change?

Again, I repeat, Nigeria is sunken ship. We are a dead nation. No hope for a corrupt cesspit! [/s]

-CramJones



Sometimes it is simply UNWISE to compare two or more similar projects at mere face value! Other contingencies are supposed to be considered. Stuffs like access to construction materials, prevailing exchange rates, compensations to be made amongst others. You don't just open your mouth "gbagaa" and say one government has chopped $5bn... At least they were able to reduce the initial cost..though we can't rule out the illegal monies that would exchange hands into private pockets..cos it happens everywhere!!!

2 Likes

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by seguno2: 8:52pm On Jul 01, 2016
Zico5:
Thank God o, if not for Buhari, this one would have gone down the drain just like that. Who even know where Gej diverted that huge amount to. It has been shared like the former. Thank God we done with those rogues called PDP.

Please where did you see the huge amount to be diverted?
Do you have a reading problem or do you have a comprehension problem?
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Nobody: 8:58pm On Jul 01, 2016
GudluckIBB:
Contract was awarded by GEJ but he didn't implement it.

Rather, he used the money to buy yams for his fellow Yam eaters.



Dear Sir,

It came to my attention that you commented without reading first. If you would kindly scroll up, you will deduce that: 1) the project will be financed by the Chinese Exim Bank. 2) The contract was negotiated downwards owing to the slump in prices of commodities. Not out of the negotiating prowess of Amaechi.

It's best we read and understand before trying to spread hate and have all these impressionable folks who pour likes on your uninformed comment like glitter running amok.

Worst Wishes.

4 Likes 1 Share

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by nextstep(m): 8:58pm On Jul 01, 2016
saintdennis:


Baba I tire but actually china did not develop themselves the soviets and u.s.a did.

Difference is leadership, the Chinese learnt all they could, sent their citizens to the west and eastern blocs and when they came back home they put them straight to working on developing china.

In naija even when the harvard educated peeps come back na only to thief dey their mind


Agreed... we don't seem to learn... nothing wrong with developing your economy with somebody's aid, as long as you're learning along the way. Arguably, the US developed on the back of UK technology, and then took the lead by the early 1900s. What I'm griping about is that we "buy" development projects, but never "do" development.

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Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by nextstep(m): 9:03pm On Jul 01, 2016
AnonyNymous:

Currently, we don't have any Nigerian owned Civil Engineering company large enough to take on this project.
We're not relying on China per se, its a Chinese owned Civil Engineering company. They have a branch in Africa and have been taking on many projects for a long time.

And the lamentation is that, as a result of our short sightedness, we won't ever have a Civil Engineering company large enough:

- we won't loan them money at favourable terms
- we want them to import all the materials and expertise
- we won't partner them with the bigger companies to work on these large projects
- we won't spend time and money to help train them
- we'll second guess them and frustrate them at every turn

and so on. Once China gets too expensive or obviously imperialistic, we'll turn our begging bowls elsewhere. That's what vexing me.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by ocheejemb: 9:06pm On Jul 01, 2016
ChukwuIbrahim:




http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/07/fg-ccecc-sign-mou-11-12bn-lagos-calabar-railway-project/

2 years? Lol
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by seguno2: 9:06pm On Jul 01, 2016
southpole:
Not to critisize but to ask you few questions so that you educate us. Are you saying that government will not pay compensation? knowing fully well that the rail lines will pass through many settlements, plantations and farm lands.
This project is about construction of the rail lines is government not going to buy the trains. I am thinking that the remaining balance would be use for the payment of compensation and purchase of train couches and engines

Do you think that the government of the other countries did not pay compensation?
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by saintdennis(m): 9:10pm On Jul 01, 2016
nextstep:


Agreed... we don't seem to learn... nothing wrong with developing your economy with somebody's aid, as long as you're learning along the way. Arguably, the US developed on the back of UK technology, and then took the lead by the early 1900s. What I'm griping about is that we "buy" development projects, but never "do" development.

Very true bro. It's just annoying
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by princematz(m): 9:10pm On Jul 01, 2016
Hope the money go kom awt sha?....... wailers will dodge dis... tongue

1 Like

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Nobody: 9:29pm On Jul 01, 2016
Crieff:
What sort of rail line are these people building for $11bn?

Does this include the train itself?

How can you build a rail line for $11bn?
U mean 11b is too much or too small. Go and do ur research, b4 u start doubting.
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Spells(m): 9:40pm On Jul 01, 2016
Seeing is believing.... Talk is cheap.... So for now I'll call it a bluff.
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by cao(f): 9:41pm On Jul 01, 2016
Halle-freaking-lujah, one of these posts made FP. NLers like to repeat themselves.
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by igala1(m): 9:42pm On Jul 01, 2016
Boscojugunu:
Change is here to stay. It might be slow, but believe me we will surely get there. But what about the 60 billion naira budgeted for the project. Someone should please explain where that is going to

Take the MM2 & Lekki toll gate projects for instance. It was built and being maintained by private companies. The MOU would state the period they would maintain & earn fees on the projects before handing back to the government. The N60b in the 2016 budget could be for feasibility studies for terrains, settlement & compensation of farm,property owners along the paths. Security, logistics etc. The $11b would be provided by the Chinese Govt/bank to their Chinese company to build the railway. Only we don't know the duration of maintenance, recouping of funds before handing over to the Nigerian Govt.

1 Like

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Nobody: 9:45pm On Jul 01, 2016
nextstep:


And the lamentation is that, as a result of our short sightedness, we won't ever have a Civil Engineering company large enough:

- we won't loan them money at favourable terms
- we want them to import all the materials and expertise
- we won't partner them with the bigger companies to work on these large projects
- we won't spend time and money to help train them
- we'll second guess them and frustrate them at every turn

and so on. Once China gets too expensive or obviously imperialistic, we'll turn our begging bowls elsewhere. That's what vexing me.
I see. . . you're right. . .But building up a company large enough requires time, and money. What if our indigenous small small companies merged together and took on more projects to gain a favourable reputation? Im currently a 300level civil engineering student and the mindset of most of us right now is 'looking for a big company to work for'. Hopefully when I graduate I can work for a bigger company to gain experience for about 10 years, and later start up something with my mates and watch it grow with time

1 Like

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Reference(m): 9:48pm On Jul 01, 2016
nextstep:


And the lamentation is that, as a result of our short sightedness, we won't ever have a Civil Engineering company large enough:

- we won't loan them money at favourable terms
- we want them to import all the materials and expertise
- we won't partner them with the bigger companies to work on these large projects
- we won't spend time and money to help train them
- we'll second guess them and frustrate them at every turn

and so on. Once China gets too expensive or obviously imperialistic, we'll turn our begging bowls elsewhere. That's what vexing me.

My own idea for these kinds of public works is to have them built almost entirely by mass labour. They are not high tech projects and don't use high tech materials or equipment to deliver, so you can have a very high local content. Granted he who pays the piper dictates who gets what but the government can double up on that project. It is called shadowing. You just copy what you see step by step, bolt by bolt, naira for yen. Unfortunately we don't have the economy neither do we have the nature or will as a nation to develop like that. Take Abuja for instance and the Julius Berger phenomenon. Every bridge they build, every culvert, every light pole is exactly alike, factory built. Why have we not been able to transfer such standards to the local industry down to mass labour works. Why haven't we been able to create an identity of high standards. We just cannot develop if we continue to outsource our infrastructure in perpetuity. The benefits of building roads and rails is not just in the economic product of a better transport network but in the processes that will strengthen the economy, prosper the people individually through jobs, create and sustain allied industry like steel. No not us, we are Nigeria that thinks it is Saudi Arabia.

1 Like

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by masseratti: 10:09pm On Jul 01, 2016
Reference:


My own idea for these kinds of public works is to have them built almost entirely by mass labour. They are not high tech projects and don't use high tech materials or equipment to deliver, so you can have a very high local content. Granted he who pays the piper dictates who gets what but the government can double up on that project. It is called shadowing. You just copy what you see step by step, bolt by bolt, naira for yen. Unfortunately we don't have the economy neither do we have the nature or will as a nation to develop like that. Take Abuja for instance and the Julius Berger phenomenon. Every bridge they build, every culvert, every light pole is exactly alike, factory built. Why have we not been able to transfer such standards to the local industry down to mass labour works. Why haven't we been able to create an identity of high standards. We just cannot develop if we continue to outsource our infrastructure in perpetuity. The benefits of building roads and rails is not just in the economic product of a better transport network but in the processes that will strengthen the economy, prosper the people individually through jobs, create and sustain allied industry like steel. No not us, we are Nigeria that thinks it is Saudi Arabia.
honestly best post av seen this year, if we dont do things like this ourselves with mass labour just like the British did, we are doomed
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Yinkash100(m): 10:27pm On Jul 01, 2016
cramjones:
Was this another route Goodluck Jonathan planned to steal $5billion from this phony project? Why is PMB not revising the contract? Who now takes the extra 4 - 5$ billion, because we all know it wont cost 11.2Billion>

Before you all crucify me. Kindly look at the average cost of Chinese Construction of railines from the well respected Railway Finance website http://www.railway-technical.com/finance.shtml

This is not an underground rail line neither is it a high-speed. Let us even assume it is high speed, we are looking at $10 million per kilometer.

Even at the price, if we take 800km to be the total distance, we are looking at $8billion at most. Who steals the remaining $5 billion?

Nigeria is a dead country. I continue to say this. We are a dead nation. Even after "spending" all that money we may not even see the rail way. Just imagine what someone is planning to steal in the name of change?

Again, I repeat, Nigeria is sunken ship. We are a dead nation. No hope for a corrupt cesspit!

-CramJones


WAILING WAILER

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Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by tbaba1234: 10:38pm On Jul 01, 2016
Reference:


It cannot be completed in that time span but it is a great development. Rail is a far better mode of transport and its advantages are simply incalculable. For one, it will prolong the lifespan of our roads and reduce the overal cost of production. Good news for the economy.

If Nigeria pays its part of the deal on time, why not? The main reason for delay is money.
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by bashydemy1: 10:56pm On Jul 01, 2016
rejosom:
Buhari dey tyrant
To slap you just dey hungry me, If you are programmed to just type rubbish you suppose to use your brain.

1 Like

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Reference(m): 10:58pm On Jul 01, 2016
tbaba1234:


If Nigeria pays its part of the deal on time, why not? The main reason for delay is money.

I'm talking from an operational point of view. Compensation and right of way does not have a time table, the terrain in too tough to conquer in that time, piling, dredging, bridges are too many. Just speaking from experience. And when they get into urban areas of Lagos, Portharcourt, etc expect a different set of challenges. Such public works even in developed countries take many more years to complete than stated. I will realistically look at anything above five years.
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Etern: 11:10pm On Jul 01, 2016
cramjones:
Was this another route Goodluck Jonathan planned to steal $5billion from this phony project? Why is PMB not revising the contract? Who now takes the extra 4 - 5$ billion, because we all know it wont cost 11.2Billion>

Before you all crucify me. Kindly look at the average cost of Chinese Construction of railines from the well respected Railway Finance website http://www.railway-technical.com/finance.shtml

This is not an underground rail line neither is it a high-speed. Let us even assume it is high speed, we are looking at $10 million per kilometer.

Even at the price, if we take 800km to be the total distance, we are looking at $8billion at most. Who steals the remaining $5 billion?

Nigeria is a dead country. I continue to say this. We are a dead nation. Even after "spending" all that money we may not even see the rail way. Just imagine what someone is planning to steal in the name of change?

Again, I repeat, Nigeria is sunken ship. We are a dead nation. No hope for a corrupt cesspit!

-CramJones

Learn to research before misinforming or misrepresenting facts. The line you drew is not the route of the rail line. The contract was actually negotiated downwards to the tune of $800m. It is high speed rail line, and for God's sake Nigeria is not a dead country!

2 Likes

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by abiambo(m): 11:12pm On Jul 01, 2016
If this administration completes this project before 2019 ,I will vote for Buhari, apc or not

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Etern: 11:13pm On Jul 01, 2016
rejosom:
Buhari dey tyrant
We know you are a spambot programmed to insult Buhari.

1 Like

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Etern: 11:20pm On Jul 01, 2016
Boscojugunu:
Change is here to stay. It might be slow, but believe me we will surely get there. But what about the 60 billion naira budgeted for the project. Someone should please explain where that is going to
It is part of our own counterpart funding of the project.
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by engrjacuzzi: 11:21pm On Jul 01, 2016
I still get hope on NRC be that.
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by TomLepskie(m): 12:48am On Jul 02, 2016
cramjones:
Was this another route Goodluck Jonathan planned to steal $5billion from this phony project? Why is PMB not revising the contract? Who now takes the extra 4 - 5$ billion, because we all know it wont cost 11.2Billion>

Before you all crucify me. Kindly look at the average cost of Chinese Construction of railines from the well respected Railway Finance website http://www.railway-technical.com/finance.shtml

This is not an underground rail line neither is it a high-speed. Let us even assume it is high speed, we are looking at $10 million per kilometer.

Even at the price, if we take 800km to be the total distance, we are looking at $8billion at most. Who steals the remaining $5 billion?

Nigeria is a dead country. I continue to say this. We are a dead nation. Even after "spending" all that money we may not even see the rail way. Just imagine what someone is planning to steal in the name of change?

Again, I repeat, Nigeria is sunken ship. We are a dead nation. No hope for a corrupt cesspit!

-CramJones




OK we don hear, let's have the railway first. Kudos to the government.
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by gotousa2013: 1:22am On Jul 02, 2016
Let them finish before I comment.

1 Like

Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Biospnx(m): 2:25am On Jul 02, 2016
nextstep:
China just banking on Nigeria (and Africa) this decade...

First it was Western Europe, then North America, then Eastern Europe, then Asia & India. I wonder who we will turn to in 30 years to develop our country, Latin America? Anybody except ourselves right? SMH
do u know a Nigerian construction dat can build railway correctly?, ask USA.. China n India banking dem too
Re: Lagos-Calabar Railway: FG And CCECC sign $11.12bn MoU by Boscojugunu(m): 2:33am On Jul 02, 2016
Thanks, now i grab
igala1:


Take the MM2 & Lekki toll gate projects for instance. It was built and being maintained by private companies. The MOU would state the period they would maintain & earn fees on the projects before handing back to the government. The N60b in the 2016 budget could be for feasibility studies for terrains, settlement & compensation of farm,property owners along the paths. Security, logistics etc. The $11b would be provided by the Chinese Govt/bank to their Chinese company to build the railway. Only we don't know the duration of maintenance, recouping of funds before handing over to the Nigerian Govt.

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