Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? - Religion - Nairaland
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| Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by hopefulLandlord: 4:37am On Jul 27, 2016 |
source: discover-the-truth.com/2013/11/14/bible-does-numbers-3118-sanction-pre-pubescent-marriages-child-marriage-2/ The answer for the above is yes! Numbers 31:18 does sanction child marriage. Let’s now examine the verse: Webster’s Bible Translation Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones (taph), and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the female children (taph), that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. In order for me to go further let’s first show the part where the Hebrew word ‘taph’ used and what it means in the verse. Below is the text-image for the passage under discussion (check the first attached image for reference) When we consult Hebrew-English Lexicons on the word ‘taph’, it only refers to pre-pubescent girls and boys: An English and Hebrew Lexicon – Professor Selig Newman: Child , an infant … טַף… an offspring,… get with-……[1] A complete Hebrew-English pocket-dictionary to the Old Testament (1905) – Karl Feyerabend: טַף (taf) ., i.p. .., w.s…. coll. Children, little ones. [2] A Compendious Hebrew-Lexicon – Samuel Pike: טַף little ones or children… mincing in a childish manner, Isai. Iii. 16. –… to drop, or distil… to prophecy, or distil instruction, Micah ii. 6, 11 [3] The above Lexicons commenting on the Hebrew word ‘taph’, they quite clearly show that the word only refers to children or infants. Let’s now read the verse again to get a better understanding: Webster’s Bible Translation Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones (taph), and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the female children (taph), that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. As we start reading from verse 17, it begins by Moses commanding his soldiers to execute all the male children (infants), and all the women who have slept with a man, in other words women who are not virgin. When we get to the next verse (v. 18), Moses tells his soldiers that they can take for themselves all the female children. Now the question arises, why are the male children not shown any mercy, get executed, but the female children left alive? It is obvious from the words, “for yourselves”, Moses meant that they can have the female children for their own pleasure, to cohabit with. When I started examining Numbers 31:17-18, reading the Hebrew words for verse 18 at the end, one word was left unexplained. This is not the case of just one English Bible translation, all the modern Bible translations have blatantly crossed out the word. The word I am referring to is ‘lakhem’ (or lacham), this word is left unexplained. This same word (lacham) is used in many other passages such as: Exd 1:10, Deu 1:41, Jos 10:5, Jdg 1:8, 1Sa 31:1, 1Ki 12:24, Isa 19:2, in all these verses mentioned, when the Hebrew word ‘lacham’ is used , it means:- ‘fight’, ‘fought’, or ‘warred’. Here is Hebrew text-image for the mentioned passage: (Check the second attached image for reference) You can see I have circled in red where the word ‘lacham’ is used in them verses. If you go to any Judaic-Christian website, where they give definitions for any word from the Bible, they have always left the word ‘lacham’ unexplained for the passage. Usually when I do research on certain words which are disputed from Biblical verses, I visit these sites, Blueletterbible.org or biblestudytools.com, and they have always given an explanation in detail, what a word means. But when I started examining Numbers 31:18, what caught my eye was the word ‘lacham’, it was left blank. What made it even strange is, I was not allowed (able) to click on the word, to see what the meaning of the word is. This prompted me to do more research on the word and find out what the meaning of it is. Shaye J. D. Cohen who is a renowned Professor writes that the word lachem used in the verse is meant sexually: “Moses enjoins upon the returning warriors to kill their Midianite female captives who have lain with a man, but ‘spare for yourselves every young woman who has not had carnal relations with a man’; WE MAY BE SURE THAT ‘FOR YOURSELVES’ MEANS THAT THE WARRIORS MAY ‘USE’ THEIR VIRGIN CAPTIVES SEXUALLY.52 The law in numbers differs from the law in Deuteronomy- perhaps the most significant distinction is that the law in Deuteronomy does not care whether the captive is a virgin or not- but it too permits Israelite warrior to marry (or ‘marry) a foreign woman.” In the same page, in footnote 52, Professor Shaye J.D. Cohen goes further on the verse, he writes: “I do not know why the new Jewish version omits ‘for yourselves’; the Hebrew lakhem is unambiguous. That the intent of ‘FOR YOURSELVES’ IS SEXUAL OR MATRIMONIAL IS OBVIOUS; the passage is correctly understood by Rabbi Simeon Yohai in the Sifrei ad loc (177 212H).”[4] Now it makes sense why missionaries try hard not to give the true meaning for the word. We can see the deceit of Evangelicals trying hard to cover up the word. Thankfully we have a sincere Scholar as Shaye J.D. Cohen who makes it clear that the word can only be meant ‘sexually’. Wil Gafney, Ph.D. is Associate Professor of Hebrew and Old Testament at The Lutheran Theological Seminary at Philadelphia in Pennsylvania, and is an Episcopal Priest canonically resident in the Diocese of Pennsylvania. She is another line of Scholars who comments on Numbers 31:18, she writes: “The ‘one woman, one man’ relationship of Eve and Adam becomes one man and two women in Genesis 4:19, ONE MAN AND AN UNTOLD NUMBER OF PREPUBESCENT GIRL CAPTIVES IN NUMBER 31:18 and in several other texts. IT APPEARS THAT GOD HAS LEFT IT TO HUMANITY TO DECIDE WHO ARE APPROPRIATE INTIMATE PARTNERS AND UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES. The evolution of polygamy, both CONSENSUAL AND FORCED, as a human-initiated cultural practice in the scriptures is particularly striking because of God’s lack of condemnation of it (not to mention, according to Deuteronomy, God’s sanction of abduction or rape-marriage during armed conflicts). When inviting individuals and their descendants into eternal covenant relationships with God, God never required that the matriarchs and patriarchs revert to an Eve-Adam, monogamous pairing.” [5] Notice, Professor Wil brings up Numbers 31:18 and at the same time she writes, “God has left it to humanity to decide who are appropriate intimate partners and under what circumstances.” She is referring to the pre-pubescent girls. In other words, she is saying God left it to humanity to decide whether it is ‘ok’ to cohabit with a pre-pubescent girls or not. Another Professor by the name Miguel A. De La Torre mentions that Numbers 31:18 found Biblical justification of raping female slaves and that it was considered ordained by God, by Christian slave owners of the past. He writes, “The Bible was masterfully used by those in power to justify the owning of black bodies. This was an easy feat; nowhere in either the Hebrew Bible or the New Testament is slavery categorically condemned. The supporters of slavery in the antebellum south were the ones who had the biblical chapters and verses to quote to justify their way of life. The abolitionists were hard pressed to find any biblical passage that outright condemned the institution of slavery. EVEN THE RAPE OF FEMALE SLAVES FOUND BIBLICAL JUSTIFICATION AND WAS CONSIDERED TO BE ORDAINED BY GOD. SPECIFICALLY, NUMBERS 31:18 INSTRUCTS CONQUERORS AS FOLLOWS: ‘YOU SHALL KEEP ALIVE ALL YOUNG FEMALES WHO HAVE NOT HAD SEX WITH A MALE FOR YOURSELVES. …”[6] The Popular Commentary by Paul E. Kretzmann “v. 18. But all the women children that have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves, as slaves or handmaids, FOR MARRIAGE WITH SUCH WAS NOT FORBIDDEN. The great God is terrible in His judgments, a fact which should teach us to fear His wrath and not act contrary to His commandments.” [7] Even the Bible commentator Paul E. Kretzmann, makes it clear, commenting on the verse that marriage with the pre-pubescent females ‘was not forbidden’. 2 Likes
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| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by delishpot: 4:44am On Jul 27, 2016 |
Jesus said God created one man and a woman for him but that the Jewish men were too greedy and stone headed that was why they marry and divorce at will. Yes, the Jewish books even encourage rape of infants. Google it up. Those people we're just creating laws in Gods name to suit their selfish desires. Even Jesus complained about it. I do not believe God will okay evil and wickedness. Jesus came to teach love and tried to open their eyes to the flaws in their reasoning. He even denied many of their so called laws and said their father is the devil cost they walk in darkness. That was why they hated Jesus. He seemed to be trying to change the so called laws their fore fathers gave them in the name of God. The bibke comprises some books from the Jewish Torah(Old Testament) that was the original religion Jesus was born into. It also includes acct of Jesus' followers about their lives with Jeus and their lives after he was killed. The Bible was put together by a group of men who decided of the many religious records who,h should be added to the book and which should be removed. The Bible is a book brought together by people who wanted to politicise religion and bring all Christian groups into 1 body to be governed by 1 book. In those days, after Christ there we're many factions of Christianity, some did not mind acknowledging the women in Jesus' ministry while some in keeping with the Jewish tradition(where women are to be hardly seen and hardly heard) felt the world would ridicule them if they included women in leadership positions. The emperor who gave up after seeing that Christianity was a strong force to deal withafter(not withstanding the turtire and killings Christians kept on believing in their faith) decided to allow them practice under 1 banner. he even became a Christian himself. For politics sake. |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by okenwa(m): 4:55am On Jul 27, 2016 |
False doctrines, what is marriage in the first place? How can you just extract a verse from the Bible and expatriate it beyond 10 paragraphs all in the bids to drive home your intention. You can only tell us that the bible encourages mankind to book a child down for possible marriage. That is to betrode her. Your angle of passing this topic is faulty 2 Likes |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by 9inches(m): 5:00am On Jul 27, 2016 |
Op, is this an attempt to justify Muhammad and Aisha scandal? Jesus had come, preached His gospel and was long gone before Muhammad came. If both were of same God, why would a Muhammad act differently? By the way, this topic should have been created on a jewish forum, Christians do not have anything to do with it. Your next topic would be "does the bible sanction 'thighing' of babies". 1 Like |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by HopefuLandlurhd: 5:51am On Jul 27, 2016 |
mods are banning me i cant complete this visit the link i gave up there for the conclusion 1 Like |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by kevoh(m): 7:12am On Jul 27, 2016 |
9inches:OP is neither Christian nor Muslim. So this your Muhammad diversion boat won't sail  9inches:Of recent on this forum, Christians claim they derive their morals strictly from the Bible which gave rise to this thread. The story and verses quoted by the OP are in the Bible. No cherry picking please! Christians have everything to do with it!  4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by HopefuLandlurhd: 7:20am On Jul 27, 2016 |
Dr Judith E. McKinlay also mentions that the Bible ‘seems’ at times to turn a blind eye and allow ‘free romance’ commenting on Numbers 31:18. “Where the texts have a concern for the circumcised status, this clearly does not apply to women! And where there is a concern for lineage the importance of patrilineal descent meant a lesser concern regarding the potential mothers. So, in the war against Midian, Moses says to the people in Num 31.18 that of the captured Midian women, ‘all the young women who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves’. AT TIMES IT SEEMS AS IF THE BIBLE WANTS TO TURN A BLIND EYE TO THE MATTER ALTOGETHER AND ALLOW FREE ROMANCE A FREE HAND.”[8] 2 Likes |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by HopefuLandlurhd: 7:22am On Jul 27, 2016 |
The evidence presented for Numbers 31:18 is clear that pre-pubescent marriages are encouraged in the Bible (Old Testament). There is no mention in the Bible that, “there has to be a waiting period for the girls who are pre-pubescent.” The command does not exist. There is no command in the verse where there has to be a waiting period for a female to grow up, before a soldier can be with her. The words in Numbers 31:18 are very clear: “keep alive for YOURSELVES”, means that the soldier can be with the female pre-pubescent captive straight away. The command in Numbers 31:18 is straight forward, the soldiers can be with the female pre-pubescent immediately, sexually. |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by chuose: 7:37am On Jul 27, 2016 |
Stop thinking like Buhari Numbers 31 KJV) 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. women children means young women. The bible does not condone marrying babies thats islam |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by hopefuLandlurde: 7:51am On Jul 27, 2016 |
Missionary objection against Numbers 31:18 One of the baseless arguments raised against Numbers 31:18 by Evangelists is that they say ‘it does not sanction Child marriage’ {kindly read these verses by yourself cuz mods keep banning me for it} |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by hopefuLandlurde: 7:52am On Jul 27, 2016 |
Questions for missionaries: 1. Nowhere in the above verse does it say ‘that you are forbidden from marrying pre-pubescent females’, where does it say that “you are forbidden from marrying pre-pubescent girls” from the Bible? Where are the verses that abrogate Numbers 31:18 explicitly? 2. How is Ezekiel 16:1-8 A PARABLE (not a command) override (abrogate) Numbers 31:18? When in Numbers 31: 18, it explicitly states that you can ‘take for YOURSELVES’, marry female captives by force. 3. How is Ezekiel in anyway relevant to Moses and his soldiers, when Ezekiel was born nearly 700 years after Moses? Ezekiel did not even exist when Moses and his soldiers were raping, marrying pre-pubescent females. |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by malvisguy212: 7:54am On Jul 27, 2016 |
HopefuLandlurhd:you are not different from those church member who follow what their pastor command. Listen the Midianites were descendants of Abraham through Keturah, and God promise to Abraham was to preserve his descendant, if you read numbers 25, The midianites were corrupted and they are seducing isreal to worship others gods: Numbers 25:1-3 1 While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in se*xual immorality with MOABITE WOMEN,2 who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate and bowed down before these gods. 3 So ISREAL JOINED IN WORSHIPPING the Baal of Peor. And the LORD's anger burned against them. You see, the isrealite were having se*xual intercourse with the moabite women ,and this women are baal worshippers , because God had promise an everlasting covenant with Abraham, so he want to preserve the midianites , and How did God want to preserve the midianites ? By preserving the virgin, who had not known man, in fact this virgin had to wait outside israel for PURIFICATION: Number31:19 19 And all of you who have killed anyone or touched a dead body must stay outside the camp for seven days. You must PURIFY YOURSELVES and your CAPTIVES on the third and seventh days. The captives are the virgins. And in number 25:17-18 it state why God command the israelite to kill the midinites: The LORD said to Moses, 17 “Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them, 18 because they treated you as enemies when they deceived you in the affair of Peor and their sister Cozbi, the daughter of a Midianite leader, the woman who was killed when the plague came as a result of Peor.” The reasons are stated in this passage as: (1)hostilities taken by the Midianites; and(2) deception of Israel by them, in the ‘affair of Peor’. So God preserve the virgins so that the midianites will not be wipe out, for they are among the descendant of Abraham. 1 Like |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by hopefuLandlurde: 7:54am On Jul 27, 2016 |
chuose: dont be so quick to reply, the OP addressed that with the pictures and definitions of it take this advice; go back, read properly, think very well about the reply you'll give and give them thanks |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by malvisguy212: 7:59am On Jul 27, 2016 |
hopefuLandlurde:the children are not for marriage, God preserve the virgin as His promise to Abraham, God want to preserve the medinites, so He save the virgin . If the bible sanction child marriage, give one example of biblical figure who do it ? |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by Scholar8200(m): 8:41am On Jul 27, 2016 |
It is in the very character of error to pick a single verse/passage and overwork same with tons and loads of explanation and reasonings even though all such contradicts other parts of Scripture. It is a perverted way of thinking to assume they were to use the girls sexually. Common practice of such war captives then was servitude to mistresses: 2 At this time Aramean raiders had invaded the land of Israel, and among their captives was a young girl who had been given to Naaman’s wife as a maid. 2 Kings 5:2 I challenge the op to bring ONE reference that expressly shows that those or any other were used as sex slaves/objects!!! The law allowed marrying of war captives but such was to be a WOMAN not GIRL, would Moses give the law and then contradict it before the very people he brought the law to? : 10 “Suppose you go out to war against your enemies and the Lord your God hands them over to you, and you take some of them as captives. 11 And suppose you see among the captives a beautiful [b]woman, and you are attracted to her and want to marry her. Deuteronomy 21:10,11 NO SEX SLAVERY BUT MARRIAGE!!! READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER TO SEE THE RIGHTS SUCH WOMAN WOULD HAVE, NOTHING LIKE SEX SLAVERY OR CHILD MARRIAGE!!! 3 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by 4kings: 9:27am On Jul 27, 2016 |
malvisguy212: Joseph and Mary. Age(90 and 12) respectively. Source: https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/30/marriage-of-mary-to-joseph-the-carpenter/ 2 Likes |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by Nobody: 9:51am On Jul 27, 2016 |
Scholar8200:This Doesn't Change The Fact That Its Still Child Abuse!! |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by Nobody: 9:54am On Jul 27, 2016 |
malvisguy212:This Is The Same Reason Boko Boys Bomb You Guys Worshipping Other Gods From Ur Write Up It Seams U Are In Support Of Their Action?? 1 Like |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by malvisguy212: 10:07am On Jul 27, 2016 |
4kings:in Luke 1:26-34 the scripture address mary as "BLESSED AMONG WOMEN" and in the same verse, mary was betrothed to joseph and expresses knowledge of the need for sexual intercourse to conceive: “How can this be since I have not known a man? " And also in Luke 1:39 39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; Mary makes a trip of over 100KM from Nazareth to Judea to visit her cousin Elizabeth. That is not a trip a 12year old can make. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by Scholar8200(m): 10:14am On Jul 27, 2016 |
malvisguy212:indeed blessed among women, not girls! 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by damogul: 10:28am On Jul 27, 2016 |
The OP is known to be an individual who does not first grasp an understanding of anything before he criticises it which is why referred to him using second hand info to buttress his points and not his own understanding. Imagine using one bible verse to shoot a theory without realising that the Bible always confirms itself. I applaud you my brethren who have taken out time to respond to his illogical thread. Instead of him to channel all his energy into preaching and propagating Atheism which I have even volunteered myself as one of his attempted converts, he is busy trying to shadow box Christianity which those wiser and bigger than him have been unable to achieve. Christianity will forever continue to flourish while atheism will fade away like a fashion trend such as Mc hammer pants and baggy Jeans or even the bobby brown haircut. Luke 1 vs 26- 34 disqualifies his entire argument. God is wise! 1 Like |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by 4kings: 10:32am On Jul 27, 2016 |
malvisguy212: 'Blessed among Women': cos d word 'women' would be appropriate in that context rather than 'girls'. Mary's trip: camel existed in those days. And besides, this claim is included in Catholic encyclopedia and was made by ur early church fathers not atheist. 1 Like |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by damogul: 10:52am On Jul 27, 2016 |
4kings: You are sadly wrong . The bible never recorded that Mary visited Elizabeth in company of any other person. She did so alone and if you know what 100km is even on a camel then you would not be speaking. A 12 yr old girl allowed to travel alone for 100km? In a time when women were not having equality with men? Your logic is seriously flawed. Woman means woman and girl means girl. There is a difference. Mary was a full fledged woman hence why the Angel addressed her as one. If according to the OP he said the word Girl was used in the old testament and even Jesus said suffer LITTLE CHILDREN to come unto Him then the Bible clearly differentiates not just age but size. Again your logic is flawed 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by 4kings: 11:26am On Jul 27, 2016 |
damogul: Look mr.damogul, i dont take the bible literally for the letters killeth and ...., your early church fathers put the canon, and the same set also made claim about the age of Mary, being fully aware of the stories of the canon. So u should address ur logic palava to them. |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by 4kings: 11:36am On Jul 27, 2016 |
damogul: How does Luke 1 vs 26-34 disqualify the argument. It just talks about the story of Gabriel meeting Mary. |
| Re: Does The Bible Sanction Pre-pubescent Marriages (child Marriage)? by damogul: 12:21pm On Jul 27, 2016 |
4kings: Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; [size=20pt]blessed are you among women!”[[/size]a] The Angel never said blessed are you among little girls or little children as that would have been appropriate if she was a girl herself. But the Angel said among Women? wom·an ˈwo͝omən/ noun an adult human female. 1 Like 1 Share |
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