Hi Guys and ladies,


It's being a long time since I last visited Nairaland and I'm glad to be back again.


I'm saddened by the fact that I do not see Nigerian restaurants, other food outlets and even cultural activities in South Africa, specifically Johannesburg. All we see is ome filthy shops in streets of Hillbrow which do not give justice at all to our city. It's sad that there are some Nigerians who have given Nigeria a bad name by being being drug lords and even hijacking most buildings in the CBD of Johannesburg. I would like to see Nigerians making it big in out country as I have heard enough of Indians and Chinese making it ork for themselves. I would like Nigerian business owners to own Hillbrow and make sure that it's a clean and a safe place. It's unfair to have South Africans running businesses in your country but you don't do the same in SA.

It's not cool for a place to look like this even though the city have invested millions into upgrading pavements, streets lights, planting trees and cleaning it everyday.

It would be nice to have Hillbrow looking like other parts of Johannesburg.

Nice pictures! I made a thread a few months ago asking about this. There is a Chinatown and a niche for Ethiopians in JHB, but Nigerians seem to have little interest in opening businesses in JHB.

Nigerians are refused the free chance to tap into the South Africa market because they (South Sfricans) are xenophobic of blacks specifically Nigerians. A Nigerian can't be safe in South Africa, in spite of Nigeria's contribution to the liberation of South Africans from the oppressive Apart-heid regime, they still maintain deep hatread for the Green and white flag.  Killers of Lucky Dube 'Thought He Was Nigerian' this explains the level of hatred, so how can Nigerians tap into such market.

And for your assumption on drugs in SA, i wounder how you got that information. I think you are just tring to point fingers for your corrupt state. South Africa is probably the world's leading producer of marijuana, but most of it is consumed on the domestic market, which also absorbs the output of neighboring countries, notably Lesotho, where cannabis is the main cash crop. Interpol report over the past five years shows that South Africa produced 1/4 of the entire cannabis in planet earth. This makes me wounder if Nigerian drug lords; left our fertile soil to cultivate weed in your country.

South Africa also has a bad record for car hijackings when compared to industrialised countries largely associated with the lower rate of car ownership. One South African insurance company, Hollard Insurance, no longer insures Volkswagen Citi Golfs as they are one of the most frequently hijacked vehicles in South Africa. In some areas there are road signs that indicate a high car-jack zone.  South Africa is number one in list of countries by intentional homicide rate.

I do not want to delve into the issue of rape.

You seat in your wet bedroom and draw out conclutions

It's no secret that Nigerians dominate the drug trade in South Africa. Why so defensive? Are you totally oblivious to the news that comes from there?? One thing stopping Nigerians from opening businesses there is the fact that most are illegal immigrants. I once read there are an estimated 2 million Nigerians there, but only 40,000 are legal.

blackspade:

It's no secret that Nigerians dominate the drug trade in South Africa. Why so defensive? Are you totally oblivious to the news that comes from there?? One thing stopping Nigerians from opening businesses there is the fact that most are illegal immigrants. I once read there are an estimated 2 million Nigerians there, but only 40,000 are legal.

that's definitely false, there aren't even 1million Nigerians in SA and though I agree that a significant number (especially the drug lords) have expired papers, it can't be 40,000 that are legal. A lot of Nigerians also operate small businesses there but black south africans are xenophobic, lazy and envious. Once they see that your business if progressing, they either say your things are too cheap and you are stealing their customers, or you are taking away their jobs, some occasionally call the cops on you to check your papers, they even arrange for robbers to rob you or kill you, most victims are ethiopians and somalians. the chinese and indians operating businesses there are south africans by origin and so they face no victimisation.

truth be told, south africa is not a place for fellow africans to do business, they prefer white investors and get irritated by fellow africans. Haven't you heard that south africans say white visitors are "tourists and investors" while other black fellow africans are "foreigners, asylum seekers or kwere-kwere"?

Sorry about that, I should know better than to use stats from Thisday!

lol, the media exaggerates stuff, nigerian media is worse cos no one sues them

@ blackspade

No one is defending Nigeria, i know there are Nigerians committing crimes in South Africa but this is not peculiar to Nigerians. Your claim of 2 million Nigerians in SA is laughable, and where did u get that from. How did Nigeria dominate the drug trade in South Africa?  That is a big fat lie. Does Nigeria also dominate the drug market in Mexico? Don’t be fooled my dear, South Africans are the once doing drugs with few foreigners among them just the way it is in every drug zone.

They are intimidated by the whites and you know Intimidation is next to loyalty. They consider themselves free because they can now join the whites in their play grounds, take their kids to traditional white school and shop in a white supermarket, this is where insecurity comes in; they feel other Africans are trying to come take their place (Next to the whites). When I say South Africans, I mean the blacks.

I guess this explains the protest where they killed black Africans for taking their jobs; you can imagine that. Think if that can ever happen in Naija

ask Sanusi!!!

what you dont know is the WESTERN BANKS finance project in each other countries; thats why those structures are there!

With Sanusi criminalising 'loan':

which Nigerian is ready to take a loan to create wealth?

which Nigeria bank is ready to give loan?

We must see the big picture.

Those guys will only make do of 'drugs business' as means to survive.

Nobody is born drug-dealer!!!

yeswecan:

@ Rebarobyn

No one is defending Nigeria, i know there are Nigerians committing crimes in South Africa but this is not peculiar to Nigerians. Your claim of 2 million Nigerians in SA is laughable, and where did u get that from. How did Nigeria dominate the drug trade in South Africa? That is a big fat lie. Does Nigeria also dominate the drug market in Mexico? Don’t be fooled my dear, South Africans are the once doing drugs with few foreigners among them just the way it is in every drug zone.

They are intimidated by the whites and you know Intimidation is next to loyalty. They consider themselves free because they can now join the whites in their play grounds, take their kids to traditional white school and shop in a white supermarket, this is where insecurity comes in; they feel other Africans are trying to come take their place (Next to the whites). When I say South Africans, I mean the blacks.

I guess this explains the protest where they killed black Africans for taking their jobs; you can imagine that. Think if that can ever happen in Naija

Mr. man, you are just a clown , did you even read this thread before jumping? I never mentioned anything about anyone defending Nigeria, I never said anything about Nigerians being the only criminals in SA, I never even came up with the 2million stats, I was only commenting on what someone had said that only 40000 Nigerians were legal amongst the 2million Nigerian population in SA.

don't even say what you dont know cos I can tell you don't know zap. Nigerians, precisely my igbo brothers, dominate the retail drug market in SA (this is not in any way prejudice towards igbos and I am not saying there are no honest igbos in SA), but this is something I am 200% sure of. In the city centers, you see them roaming around in twos and threes waiting for junkies who need a quick fix. They have even added pimping to the biz, they keep young SA girls under their roofs and love-vendor them out to customers, at the same time, they get the girls addicted to drugs so that they will use their entire income to buy drugs from them, at the end, these girls are forever indebted to them cos they cant foot their drug bills, so they remain the guys' personal properties cos they are addicts and they need income to buy drugs. You'll have no idea of what some 9ja peeps in SA do until you stay there.

my comment was directed to blackspade

I dont know  what the poster hopes to achieve cos Nigerians own legitimate business on streets of EU and US. But econ 101 determines where you set your biz, if u live in shanty towns and want to cater to folks  in shanty town, you dont need  a Ph.D in econ to know that proximity is your ultimate consideration. I dont quite agree with your elitist definition of market since there is  exchange of goods and services even in shanty towns. If your question is why dont most Nigerians in SA live in a bustling business district, its called opportnity cost,  most SAs cant even afford to shop in  those districts let alone live there. how then do you think that Nigerians should set up their businesses on those expensive districts? Unless you are alluding to the fact that it would lend credibilibty to their argument that they are genuine business folks, but the down side of that argument is that folks who live in shanty towns like SAs are also crime infested. If qualified Nigerian professionals can teach in universities in SA what makes you think that  there are no Nigerian businesses on major streets in SA

I think we all playing typical African mentality of putting a blame on one another instead of, with differences that we may be having, try and approach things in a different way. If we continue like this we shall never progress as Africans. The problem is that most Nigerians are running business that do attract the middle class to their joints so that we can spend more money on them. The have hijacked buildings and turned them into squealers and hey, I'm not saying every Nigeria in bed as there are plenty of Nigerians who are playing a role in bettering the lives of our people like Doctors and Engineers. The pics I posted were taken by me as per other Johannesburg pics that I have posted in other forums.

My reason for creating this thread is so that we can share ideas and help each other think better and approach other people differently. I'm not denying the fact that Nigerians are not the most popular people in the country because of the crimes that are always reported on TV done by them but I would to see that change.

I would like to see Nigerians having their own area were an ordinary South African can always go buy Agege bread and other Nigerian stuff. We have places were one will find Chinese Town, Indian Squares but there isn't any Nigerian one and I ask why? Having to say that we totally hate you guys is another statement as Africa Magic channel is one of the most viewed in South Africa and please contact your nearest multi choice office and query that. If we have Nigerians hair Salons are the most busiest in Johannesburg?

For running businesses in SA for Nigerians is about creating an environment that will most especially allow the middle class to spend their money there. Well in terms of difficulty of opening businesses in SA, I'm sure change will come now as the autocrat President Thabo Mbeki is no more. If it wasn't because of Mbeki, I really don't think that there will be Xenophobia. South African companies especially those in the food industry were hiring illegal immigrants and pay them peanuts while our people struggled and we have more than 24% of unemployment rate so people got frustrated and hence the violence but that has been resolved. We all should play a role in making sure that it never happens again.

Hillbrow is being labelled little Nigeria and that's because of a large number of people of Nigerian descent in the area and unfortunately since they infiltrated the area things are not the same. Buildings have dilapidated and there was high crime rate and drugs were a norm but the municipality invested tens of millions of rands to upgrade the area which it's cleanliness lasted for just over a month and havoc started again. I would like to see big Nigerian business people investing in that area and making it a better place for all.

We need to fight the stereotype, we need to leave differences aside and focus on the negative. We need o learn to prioritise and say "we shall leave the differences and only focus on making an African child benefit from an African soil".

yeswecan:

@ blackspade

No one is defending Nigeria, i know there are Nigerians committing crimes in South Africa but this is not peculiar to Nigerians. Your claim of 2 million Nigerians in SA is laughable, and where did u get that from. How did Nigeria dominate the drug trade in South Africa?  That is a big fat lie. Does Nigeria also dominate the drug market in Mexico? Don’t be fooled my dear, South Africans are the once doing drugs with few foreigners among them just the way it is in every drug zone.

They are intimidated by the whites and you know Intimidation is next to loyalty. They consider themselves free because they can now join the whites in their play grounds, take their kids to traditional white school and shop in a white supermarket, this is where insecurity comes in; they feel other Africans are trying to come take their place (Next to the whites). When I say South Africans, I mean the blacks.

I guess this explains the protest where they killed black Africans for taking their jobs; you can imagine that. Think if that can ever happen in Naija

No its not. Almost all of the cocaine trafficked into SA is from Nigerians, and they basically control the import of South African marijuana into the UK. Why don't you look in the newspapers and read for yourself what naijas are doing in SA.

I notice you like making excuses for people. You should shut your mouth and do research before you decide to call something a "big fat lie".

I just want to say something . . . dont know if it is true or not. Just hear me out.

The average SAfrican (esp the male) is lazy, envious and bitter. There are similarities btw the SAfricans and the black americans. Maybe this is due to their prolonged subjugation under the white SAfricans. Their ego's, psyche and emotions have been beaten and battered to the extent that they can hardly help themselves talkless of others. They want everything on a platter of gold and do not want to work hard for anything. Even when they can work hard for these things, they have to be FORCED to do so and cannot function effectively without being told what to do and how to do it (very similar to the life of a servant/slave). Therefore, when they see other blacks (Nigerians or otherwise) working hard and making a way for themselves (honestly or otherwise), they get jealous and want to either ruin or inflict some damage.

It is a known fact that you do not have to tell a nigerian what to do and how to do it. . . all he has to do is to STUDY the system and begin to find his way. It is a known fact that he not only finds a way to do things, but continually ALTERS the methods he has found to evade the law or to beat the competition. This of course, goes against the ability of the SAfrican men who cannot nimbly alter their methods of doing things. This leads them to jealousy.

As we know too, all women love men who are innovative, confident, big spenders and of course big dreamers and smooth talkers and liars. Nigerian men are all that hence, the SAfrican women simply love our men. The SAfrican men also hate Nigerian men for this.

Putting all those things together, why would the SAfricans like or want Nigerians to come into their market to conduct businesses? Other than the fact that yes, we know that a lot of Nigerians will turn to illegal businesses to make ends meet, there are honest nigerian business men who can do well in the SA market.

i just feel that the SAfricans are afraid that once they start allowing Nigerians the free hand to enter their markets, it is only a matter of time before Nigerians begin to run the whole show. Before you know what is happening, Nigerians will start running for political office. Nigerians will become the richest in SAfrica (similar to what the Indians are doing in the UK).

Dont get my post wrong, i have met a lot of wonderful SAfrican guys who are educated and are hard workers. The truth however, is that they are very very few, compared to the majority who unfortunately, have no formal form of education.

True talk epiphany!

i just feel that the SAfricans are afraid that once they start allowing Nigerians the free hand to enter their markets, it is only a matter of time before Nigerians begin to run the whole show.

is it not same SAFRICAN runing shows in Nigeria??

_{The problem is that most Nigerians are running business that do attract the middle class to their joints so that we can spend more money on them. The have hijacked buildings and turned them into squealers and hey}

Ur post is even xenophobic in nature. Always blaming Nigerians for SA's problem. SA has a high population that thrives on drugs even HIV drugs. What are you trying  to achieve by calling Nigerians hijackers. Are u saying that they took over a neighborhood by not paying rent? Or are you saying that more Nigerians live in that neighborhood?

I think this whole thing of black South Africans being lazy is a myth,it's a lie.South Africans are some of the hardworking Africans on the continent.South Africa is where it is today because of this hardworking people.

I think this lazy myth started by whites who where recruiting desperate illigal immigrants who are easily exploited.And whites in South Africa love the divide and rule tactic,They've used it against Zulus and Xhosa.

We have a history in this country of people being exploited,it was ok during aapartheid days but it's not now.We have labour laws that protect vulnarable people,and if South Africans demand a better working enviroment,living standard wage and if that is called lazy, then so be it. But don't expect South Africans to be friendly to their brother who goes to this companies and take a half of what a local demand,because this is undermining the very thing that we fought for,for 300 years.

And if all immigrants come to SA with the mentality that say,the local are lazy,without finding or learning about the history and politics of their host then I tell you now that xenophobia will never end.

As much as South Africans don't know the much about Africa9becasue of aapartheid) the little they know from Africans they meet in their country is not too pleasent.And something must be done.

back2back:

is it not same SAFRICAN runing shows in Nigeria??

Unfortunately, yes. Nigerians are more accomodating than most other people. Indians, Lebanese, philipinos etc all run successful businesses in Nigeria - while it is very very rare to find successful Nigerian businesses in those countries.

Na WA Oh

This SA/NAIJA BEEF NO DEy STOP.

Everything said on each of the responses in this thread have been recycled over and over again.

Una no dey tire.

morpheus24:

Na WA Oh

This SA/NAIJA BEEF NO DEy STOP.

Everything said on each of the responses in this thread have been recycled over and over again.

Una no dey tire.

We dey tire much much
There is no love lost between this two brothers.
Until Naija peeps accept the fact that SA is a bigger brother,This beef will turn into mutton
You Naijas overrate yourself in everything,and SA peepps knows how to bring you guys to the earth.

@Puleza I know what you where trying to do,and this is not the place or type of people you should be engaging.People here are too defensive,they think with their mouth.

RSA:

Until Naija peeps accept the fact that SA is a bigger brother,This beef will turn into mutton
You Naijas overrate yourself in everything,and SA peepps knows how to bring you guys to the earth.

This thread is not about Nigeria being a small brother or SA being a big brother, neither is it about Nigeria being overrated. It is about the reasons why Nigerians don't tap into the SA market. it is people like you that start all these SA-Nigeria arguments.

You said SA peeps know how to bring Nigerians to the earth, I'm in shock , please enlighten me by telling me how

I thought we had tapped into the market?!

look at District 9.

Anyway, Until South Africans start to act reasonable towards Nigerians

i doubt we are going to see any change,

its a sad thing.

Rebarobyn:

This thread is not about Nigeria being a small brother or SA being a big brother, neither is it about Nigeria being overrated. It is about the reasons why Nigerians don't tap into the SA market. it is people like you that start all these SA-Nigeria arguments.

You said SA peeps know how to bring Nigerians to the earth, I'm in shock , please enlighten me by telling me how

@ Rebarobyn

Naija is quickly loosing the Prestige SHE once held. We need to start innovating so as not be left behind in this Global information age.
We are allowing a small minority to dictate our image around the world and must do everything within our means to curb this.

The image being furnished in SA is not a good one despite how small the population that are promoting this negative image. Our non chalant attitude about this simply reflects the same attitude of the Governemtn who do not care about its own citizenry. If this attitude continues we will become very irrelevant on the continent.

The power we have in SA and round the world is very evident and we need to harness it despite the propagated negative stereotypes.

SA on the other hand is not doing too well as far as image is concerned so they have their own work to do Hiv, crime, unskilled labor force, xenophobia, nepotism and so on, if they continue to blame other Africans aka "Foreigners" for all these issues, they will in the long run be the ultimate loosers. Their peopel need to understand the 21st century and its global complexities as this is part of the freedom they have long been fighting for.

I have always wondered how Europeans, indians and others are viewed as "tourists/investors" and other Africans as "foreigners". This is a problem that needs to be addressed head on and solutions brought about as soon as possible.

All this shouting will not do nothin!.

Rebarobyn:

This thread is not about Nigeria being a small brother or SA being a big brother, neither is it about Nigeria being overrated. It is about the reasons why Nigerians don't tap into the SA market. it is people like you that start all these SA-Nigeria arguments.

You said SA peeps know how to bring Nigerians to the earth, I'm in shock , please enlighten me by telling me how

Yes it is true that the author was not trying to compare Naija ans SA but look at the the reaction he got from your country man,I think I know the Puleza from the other forum,he's a pure guy who wanted to see Naija people in SA taking opportunities in South Africa that are available,what he is saying is Naija people in South Africa have a bad reputation,remember that before 1990 black SA didn't know Nigerians,the first Nigerians we saw was when we where playing each other in 93,I remember all my friends had Nigerians names I was called Yekini(because of my goal scoring nstincts )

People loved Nigerians,we supported them during USA world cup in 94,and here at home we had William Okpara who was playing for Orlando Pirates and Sam Pam Jr who was the captain,we had Raphael Ndukwe Chukwu who was a goal scoring machine for mamelodi sundown.People loved Nigeria,and most wanted to know more about it,cause everything they saw about it was good.

But then came influx of Nigerians who moslty stayed in Hillbrow,you'll find them in street coner ask you ;my broda do you wanna do business? meaning do you want drugs or stolen cellphone? or God knows what.People perception started changing,they start opening crook churches to steal from the elderly.Yes there are doctors in our Hospitals,and some other professionals in our economy but they are minority,and perception still stand.

Puleza was trying to say Nigerians are already in charge of Hillbrow,why don't they invest in it,make it a place where me and whoever can go to and dine on Naija foods,or buy Naija clothes.right now it's a no go area for a typical South African.and thats where most of our problems come from.

@ Puleza

Do you post on skyscrapercity.com?? I go there a lot, but I'm unregistered.

Is your name there Pule?

I think you are him. You are a really good contributor and I really appreciate how you are very neutral in many topics there. I spend hours looking at the pictures you take and I have your blog as one of my favorite sites.

@ Everyone

This guy isn't xenophobic at all. He actually sticks up for naija ppl when other south africans (its almost always the boers) attack us over there. He doesn't have anything against us, he wants Hillbrow to turn into a Little Nigeria or some kind of international African cultural district. He is just expressing concern, stop getting so defensive.

Is this what you mean when you say Nigerians will run the show?




I thought Nigerians were educated and broad minded people but from comments from somehere, I think I was wrong. It's amazing that you label black South Africans as lazy but they have brought the South African economy to the hrights, with exception of recession. If Nigerians were so good, why don't they run their show in a perfect way in their own country?

I for one and part of a group which bought property in the CBD of Jozi and wanted to hore one for business in Hillbrow which unfotunately is being hijacked by Nigerians. Nedbank Plaza, which belonged to the companed I worked for is also being hijacked by Nigerians. Yes, South Africans have got their own bad side by major drug busts in SA are by Nigerians. So what do you expect of us to think about Nigerians even though it's not fair to those who conduct their businesses properly?

Hillbrow is not infested by Nigerians who have turned the place into a sh*t hole because they don't know anything about being clean and taking place of were they staying. I was watching Eye on Lagos the other day and I couldn't believ how human being could stay in that kind of a place and i did understand as to why they not conducting themselves properly in Hillbrow and they do not even know anything about abiding by the laws. If Nigerians are that good why, don't they keep their places clean?

Before one comment, you need to seriosly think of what you gonna say. I wonder if there is any South African who wil be so desperate to eneter Nigeria with illegal documents like Nigerians do to come to South Africa.

@ blackspade, yes that's me buddy. It pisses me off when people comment throught their butt. Instead fo working towards a solution, people keep on saying bad things about a country which have accomodate large number of their people and some of us have even offered an advice so some of them. Pakestanese, Chinese and others are also being lashed against in SA and I think that's what happenes in every country even though I do not like the steretypeness. We got a large number of frstrated uneducated people who were the drivers of Xhenophobia but with educatiomn the cause have eased but people still see South Africa as a hell hole for Nigerians. The same South Africans being lashed at are the once supporting your brothers and sisters Hair Salons in the streets of Joburg, the support your movie and other Nigerian businesses. I'm seriously pissed.

Spree of violence aimed at foreigners killed 22 people and displaced an estimated 13,000 in South Africa. Despite a lack of directly comparable data, xenophobia in South Africa is perceived to have significantly increased after the installation of a democratic government in 1994. Reed more http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/05/20/southafrica.violence/



The issue of xenophobia in South Africa (especially to Mozambiqan and Congolese immigrants) is factual that has to be dealth with.

What makes young people match up to the street to protest against foreigners getting their jobs… Black  Africans ?……… I think its insecurity, Laziness, xenophobia you can name it.

This trend increased upon independence most likely because they were now allowed to shop in traditional white supermarket and play with white, so they equated themselves with whites and saw other blacks as treat.