4kings:
Please can u go a little bit more as to why u reject gnostic atheism.
Cos it really makes more sense to me though am not fully certain.

4kings:
I understand your analogy.
However some gnostic believe that god is an innate part of all human, which can be reached through the conscious controling of the subconscious (to know)(meditation), for example chi energy.
They don't disbelieve in a creator, but they believe that the creator is not separated from human ( I.e human as the temple of god, 4rm a biblical perspective), which goes contrary to the religious view of god being a separate being.
What do u have to say about this sect?

AnonyNymous:

In that case, that isn't gnostic atheism, that's pantheism, which is still a form of theism. . . and in that form, I think I've read about them describing god as our collective consciousness, which is constantly evolving, and therefore imperfect. Its an interesting position but I don't really agree with it, discussing with a pantheist, he says the existence of this universe came as a result of our collective unconciousness longing for consciousness, which didn't really make much sense to me, also, if our existence is as a result of our consciousness, then surely we should be able to explain the universe and have a complete understanding of it, but instead, mankind was clueless about his surroundings, and gradually adapted to it. . . Idk, that line of reasoning doesn't really make much sense to me

4kings:

Thanks for the clarification.
I regularly read about chi, kundalini and the esoteric meaning of the bible and ancient text, and I must say that there are interesting.

Well I don't believe that man's actions are influenced by an external being or that any supernatural activity occur. Though from my study, I have found out that 'extraordinary event' such as healing are influenced by the subconscious.

Do u have any opinion on the subconscious?

AnonyNymous:

Yeah, I agree with you on that, whichever god exists does not meddle in human affairs. . .
Such healings, well apart from the lies that they display in churches, for the ones that actually seem to be true, I feel that most of them are actually influenced by their subconscious mind believing they'll get healed, which sort of 'speeds up' the process, science and psychology both agree that a person's expectations about the effects of a drug, directly effect the rate of success of that drug, eastern religions call it 'Law of Attraction', and I guess that's what's actually happening. But trust me, a person who has a disease cannot be cured completely by some faith healer somewhere without using any form of medicine

Weah96:
I don't believe in a remote creator entity. The designer of the universe to me operates in the sub atomic realm in which all possibilities exist. By residing within atoms, it can coordinate ALL of Nature from that vantage point.

Looking at it this way, it's not hard to see why children die from horrible things. In fact, 30k children will die from HUNGER today. But guess how many pigs, goats, cows, and chickens will die today? MILLIONS. Those animals are also made up of atoms too. And they carry blood in their veins like we do. We murder them for food by the millions daily, and yet we cry when someone dies.

Ignorance is bliss. Imagine if animals possessed our knowledge. We would hear cries of mourning ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT from everywhere.

Weah96:
I don't believe in a remote creator entity. The designer of the universe to me operates in the sub atomic realm in which all possibilities exist. By residing within atoms, it can coordinate ALL of Nature from that vantage point.

Looking at it this way, it's not hard to see why children die from horrible things. In fact, 30k children will die from HUNGER today. But guess how many pigs, goats, cows, and chickens will die today? MILLIONS. Those animals are also made up of atoms too. And they carry blood in their veins like we do. We murder them for food by the millions daily, and yet we cry when someone dies.

Ignorance is bliss. Imagine if animals possessed our knowledge. We would hear cries of mourning ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT from everywhere.

AnonyNymous:

Interesting points, its funny how religions just want to force us to bow down to some imaginary authority they created. . .
Ofc those things will happen, whatever god exists does not tamper with our trivial human events.
But to your points, don't you think your description of god is still bound to the limits of this universe? then what about before this universe came into existence?

Weah96:


Excellent question. I have considered that very implication extensively and must say that there is no easy answer. The solution lies in a quantum particle I call a NOTHING PARTICLE. I imagined every atom to be made up of particles regressively graduated by mass. This meant that there exists a particle small enough to meet the requirements of a scientific nothing. Of course, this is a rather crude way of looking it at, but I'm comforted with the knowledge that CERN is still operational. They are still searching for that elusive particle.

Another source of comfort exists in the discovery of what we call virtual particles.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-virtual-particles-rea

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Quantum/virtual_particles.html

AnonyNymous:

hmm. . . interesting. I think I'll read up more on it. . . so what about the origin of life? scientists have agreed that the spontaneous development of life from non-life is an irrational concept, following the chicken broth experiment. . . which means non-life giving rise to life (abiogenesis) must've occurred at some point. . . what do you think triggered the first spark of life in our universe? (keep in mind that extra terrestrial life is highly possible)

AnonyNymous:

what do you think triggered the first spark of life in our universe? (keep in mind that extra terrestrial life is highly possible)

Weah96:


It depends on your definition of life. Is a single sub atomic particle like a photon alive? I think it is a living thing, some kind of weird being.

https://www.scientificexploration.org/forum/are-particles-aware

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/do-subatomic-particles-have-free-will


Do your own research on particles and awareness. They are conscious.

4kings:

Aye aye captain.
Love to see deist on nairaland, cos I for one think absolute atheism is arrogant.

dalaman:


Absolute atheism with regards to man made God's like Yahweh, Allah, Zues, Ra, Brahma, etc isn't arrogant because these God's are all man made ideas. They are purely human inventions. Am an agnostic atheist in the sense that I do not believe in all the man made Gods. I do not know if the universe was created or not. What ever force or forces created the universe do not want humans to know about them from all indication so I do not worry myself about that.

4kings:

OK I get your point (agnostic atheism) and absolute atheism as it relates to man-made ideas.
But absolute atheism in the real sense does not make sense.