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Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion - Religion (6) - Nairaland

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Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God / Can Morality Exist Without Religion? / 5 Ways My Life Is Better Without Religion (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Nobody: 9:01pm On Aug 18, 2016
eph12:

Hmmm I need to spell everything out for you? This is strange. Atheist are usually the smarter ones. In case you weren't told, there is a difference between God and god. Yes the Bible says there is only one God but many gods. See the difference? Good!
The Quran and other religious book also says their God is the true God
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by canDy4eva(f): 9:07pm On Aug 18, 2016
True talk!

peacesamuel94:
1.Taking away religion won't make humans get along better either. One of the aims of religion is to unite us, but it has not been able to totally achieve that aim, I've seen Christians divided among themselves also with Muslims, Remove religion and disunity will only grow worse.

2. Not when we have so many great researchers, scientists, thinkers who were religious, for Christians we have; Charles Barbbage, William Hershel, Gregor Mendel, Michael faraday etc, and for muslims we have ibn sina, ibn buttuta,, al battani and so on.

3. The only excuse for not being prosperous as a nation or as an individual is laziness not religion. The richest man in the history of America, John D Rockerfella was a religious man. Saudi Arabia as a nation is very religious yet very prosperous. As you can see Sir, religion is not an excuse at all.

4..Religion came with the message of hope. whether this hope is imaginary or fictional as you call it, one thing it does, is that it promises of a life of joy happiness and assurance. I've tried imagining a world without religion all i could see is a hopeless world, without restraint, without assurance. Sincerely there is a lot to loose if religion is taken away. peace
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Nobody: 9:07pm On Aug 18, 2016
I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour.I also believe in the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
I have read everyone's comment.I am not here to argue.
To my fellow Christian brethren,we can see that the harvest is ripe.We should remember our NLders guys in prayers for them to encounter the divine touch with Christ.
The battle is getting stronger.But thanks be to God,we have the person of the Holy Spirit to convict the lost souls.

1 Like

Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Nobody: 9:09pm On Aug 18, 2016
AmenRa1:

The Quran and other religious book also says their God is the true God

His comment is coming from the Bible which he is focusing on and not the Quran or other books. You so enjoy derailing anything and everything just to appear intelligent when you are clearly not.

He responded to Valentinemary who was also focused on the bible so where did you spring the Quran and other books from?
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by eph12(m): 9:20pm On Aug 18, 2016
AmenRa1:

The Quran and other religious book also says their God is the true God
And is that a problem? No! Your God is the true God? Fine! My God is the true God? Fine. Both fine by me. It's not my headache. It's not my business trying to prove mine is the true God or yours is. It shouldn't be a big deal really.
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by mikolo80: 9:22pm On Aug 18, 2016
cloudgoddess:
I often see the argument posed by theists, and some atheists, that humanity somehow requires religion to keep from imploding on itself, and taking away religion would lead to widespread chaos and eventually doomsday.

I tend to strongly disagree.

This is a list of ways I think humanity could very likely be better off without religion now (specifically the Abrahamic religions and others with similar doctrines), supported by evidence I've come across.

Without religion:
1. Humanity could get along better. Tribalism is the blanket term to describe the innate human tendency to form alliances and groups against one another. More and more research is showing that tribalism can be overcome, and peace amongst people of different groups can be achieved, the more people are able to see a like-ness in one another. A "you are human just like me, I accept you, I feel comfortable around you".

Religion is a direct obstacle to achieving this like-ness, and it shouldn't be hard to imagine why. Religion teaches millions of people, usually via childhood indoctrination (brainwashing), that because the so-called "creator of the entire universe" said so, they are better, more "holy", more valuable, more moral than other groups of people. This is a perfect recipe for unnecessary tribalistic tendencies. And we see this type of religious tribalism unfolding all over the world, often violently.

Don't get me wrong, tribalism can and does exist in many other forms (racism, imperialism, even people with different tastes in music can form alliances based on that). But what sets religion apart is the fact that it rests upon a firm foundation of fear (of hell), and shielded from criticism in a way other forms of tribalism aren't, making it much harder to overcome.

2. Humanity could better understand the world & universe around us. Since the dawn of scientific & empirical thought, religion has been in direct opposition to a vast amount of scientific progress. No honest person can deny this. When Galileo discovered the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around, the church wanted him killed because it contradicted the picture the gospels painted of our place in the world. The same goes for the anti-evolution nonsense that still goes on today. People are actively against the foundational theory uniting all biology, for no other reason than that it contradicts the religion they were taught.

Religious indoctrination installs cognitive biases in peoples' minds, causing strong feelings of resistance, anger, hostility and paranoia once they are confronted with certain scientific (& sometimes philosophical) topics that call into question the religious worldview they were indoctrinated with. The anti-intellectual, anti-science mindset that religion births is causing billions of people across the globe to remain centuries behind on a huge chunk of human knowledge. Thus, impeding the scientific & intellectual progress of humanity as a whole.

According to surveys, the countries with the lowest populations of religious people have the highest rates of quality education. It's not always accurate to imply causation from correlation, and the relationship might flow both ways, but it's quite obvious that the more religious someone is, the more unwelcoming of science they're likely to be.

3. Humanity could understand ourselves better. It is true that humans have innate biological insticts that drive much of our behavior. These insticts, as science continues to find, aren't magical but evolved. They helped our species survive, just like every other animals' insticts help it survive. Rather than helping us understand and best navigate our human instincts (like our emotional reactions & sexuality), religion demonizes and mystifies them. It manufactures a ridiculous amount of shame around simply being human.

Religion also, in it's ignorance, has stamped mental disorders with labels like "spiritual invasion" or "demonic posession". Instead of people getting the psychiatric help they need, people are sent to exorcists and other phony religious leaders for "deliverance". Not only does this put lives & minds in danger, but it generates an unnecessary sense of fear and panic around treatable medical conditions, causing people to fundamentally misunderstand their own mental health.

4. Humanity could be more proactive & prosperous. Rather than relying on prayer, which is essentially talking to yourself, people could be more likely to take action towards solving their problems if religion were not a factor in their lives. Again, we see that the most prospering and forward-moving countries have smaller percentages of people who think religiously. Because their societies are based in reason and evidence-based thinking, they are quicker to find workable solutions to economic, political, health, and other issues. Much of the law in the developed world is based on our current understanding of these issues according to research. NOT religious books, which were written by people 2,000 years ago who were quite ignorant in these areas.

5. Humanity could be happier. The biggest reason of all that people give for why people need religion, is that it gives them comfort and hope. When going through a rough time, praying helps people cope. When someone dies, the promise that you'll see them again is soothing. Although I don't deny that religion can serve as an emotional bandaid, or even a vessel for truly healing practices (ex. "giving your troubles up to god" could have the same cognitive effect as "accepting what you can't control and doing your best" ), it is NOT, imo, the only way, let alone the best way, for us to achieve happiness and peace.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, the areas of Neuroscience and Psychology are making some incredible discoveries as of late, uncovering long-awaited answers to our mysterious psyches and how to navigate them. Recent studies show that happiness, contentment, and compassion for onesself and others can be learned & practiced as skills; healing from grief, sorrow, and trauma can be achieved through evidence based psychiatric techniques (including self-directed therapies); and life's obstacles can be surmounted by tapping into proven resources (like a nurturing social environment).

In other words, very good answers to how to be happier, how to get over struggles, how to find peace, are out there. In this day and age, the internet, libraries and bookstores are swarming with this information. With some research into these resources, it should become clear that religion has outlived it's usefulness in this area as well.

So, to conclude, I think that humanity could not only survive without organized religion like the Abrahamic faiths, we could thrive. The children who are raised without the religion across the globe, in areas like the Netherlands, Japan, the Czech Republic, and Iceland, yet become healthy, happy, and functioning members of their societies, are evidence of this. At this point I feel like humanity is clutching on to religion like a child to it's stuffed animal. We don't need it anymore, we just think we do.
disappear the religion na.
Or shut up and deal with it.
Stop beating dead horse
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Image123(m): 9:27pm On Aug 18, 2016
Ranchhoddas:
Wetin you dey feel like?

Nothing oh my brother. i do not say that with any sense of pride, just pulling cloudgoddess' legs as it were. Though truth be told, she dey always run.
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by segcymoor(m): 9:38pm On Aug 18, 2016
OK o
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Ranchhoddas: 10:03pm On Aug 18, 2016
Image123:


Nothing oh my brother. i do not say that with any sense of pride, just pulling cloudgoddess' legs as it were. Though truth be told, she dey always run.
A duel between you too would be fun to watch. You are both ''extremists'' on opposite sides of the divide. I am almost salivating at the thought. The fact that you seem to accept evolution would make it more interesting... Cloudgoddess what sayeth ye??
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by tecmon: 10:17pm On Aug 18, 2016
Ranchhoddas:
Stop being foolish! An atheist owns Nairaland so it's you who should leave.

Tragically foolish for you to believe someone who creates a forum for religious preachings is an atheist , if believe in something you promote it, if you promote what you dont believe in are you not a hypocrite, liar, confused, or just fool raised to power 7, or better still you and your fellow fools want to admit that atheism is also a religion tongue
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Ranchhoddas: 10:22pm On Aug 18, 2016
tecmon:


Tragically foolish for you to believe someone who creates a forum for religious preachings is an atheist , if believe in something you promote it, if you promote what you dont believe in are you not a hypocrite, liar, confused, or just fool raised to power 7, or better still you and your fellow fools want to admit that atheism is also a religion tongue
Na who open your cage?

1 Like

Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by lawani: 10:27pm On Aug 18, 2016
horlumiday:
Wonder what type of Bible you are READING, Christianity can save the world, am not talking about carnal Christians, m talking abt those following Christ not religion, Try and read the Bible with an open heart, then you will know people are doin the opposite of what God says...

A homeless mofo saying he is God, creator of all and people believing him cos he hypnotised them is the highest form of evil. He was arrested and executed, yet he still has followers today. That is evil if anything is. No man is what others can nor become

2 Likes

Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Image123(m): 10:32pm On Aug 18, 2016
Ranchhoddas:
A duel between you too would be fun to watch. You are both ''extremists'' on opposite sides of the divide. I am almost salivating at the thought. The fact that you seem to accept evolution would make it more interesting... Cloudgoddess what sayeth ye??

Holy Spirit of the good Lord God, i am not an extremist. i am just a pikin of God.
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Image123(m): 12:04am On Aug 19, 2016
cloudgoddess:
I often see the argument posed by theists, and some atheists, that humanity somehow requires religion to keep from imploding on itself, and taking away religion would lead to widespread chaos and eventually doomsday.

I tend to strongly disagree.

This is a list of ways I think humanity could very likely be better off without religion now (specifically the Abrahamic religions and others with similar doctrines), supported by evidence I've come across.

Judging from the colored, it can be established that you are saying this based on FAITH. Nothing factual, nothing proven, just your thinking and coulds and likelihoods. Okay then, let us all rely on your hope, yeah right.

Without religion:
1. Humanity could get along better. Tribalism is the blanket term to describe the innate human tendency to form alliances and groups against one another. More and more research is showing that tribalism can be overcome, and peace amongst people of different groups can be achieved, the more people are able to see a like-ness in one another. A "you are human just like me, I accept you, I feel comfortable around you".

Religion is a direct obstacle to achieving this like-ness, and it shouldn't be hard to imagine why. Religion teaches millions of people, usually via childhood indoctrination (brainwashing), that because the so-called "creator of the entire universe" said so, they are better, more "holy", more valuable, more moral than other groups of people. This is a perfect recipe for unnecessary tribalistic tendencies. And we see this type of religious tribalism unfolding all over the world, often violently.

Don't get me wrong, tribalism can and does exist in many other forms (racism, imperialism, even people with different tastes in music can form alliances based on that). But what sets religion apart is the fact that it rests upon a firm foundation of fear (of hell), and shielded from criticism in a way other forms of tribalism aren't, making it much harder to overcome.

Of course you are very aware that i am here to speak about/for CHRISTIANITY, not for all the sorts of religions out there like atheism, budhism, humanism, and so on. i speak with respect to follow Jesus the Christ, living according to how God Almighty expects us to live. So then, Christianity does not teach tribalism. Here it is again,
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savor.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamor, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


Anyone who ignores this is either ignorant, or dishonest, or a deceitful hypocrite. Which one are you?

2. Humanity could better understand the world & universe around us. Since the dawn of scientific & empirical thought, religion has been in direct opposition to a vast amount of scientific progress. No honest person can deny this. When Galileo discovered the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around, the church wanted him killed because it contradicted the picture the gospels painted of our place in the world. The same goes for the anti-evolution nonsense that still goes on today. People are actively against the foundational theory uniting all biology, for no other reason than that it contradicts the religion they were taught.

Religious indoctrination installs cognitive biases in peoples' minds, causing strong feelings of resistance, anger, hostility and paranoia once they are confronted with certain scientific (& sometimes philosophical) topics that call into question the religious worldview they were indoctrinated with. The anti-intellectual, anti-science mindset that religion births is causing billions of people across the globe to remain centuries behind on a huge chunk of human knowledge. Thus, impeding the scientific & intellectual progress of humanity as a whole.

According to surveys, the countries with the lowest populations of religious people have the highest rates of quality education. It's not always accurate to imply causation from correlation, and the relationship might flow both ways, but it's quite obvious that the more religious someone is, the more unwelcoming of science they're likely to be.

Christianity is not in opposition to wisdom and knowledge. We are encouraged to get wisdom and understanding several times.
Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
Pro 4:8 Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honor, when thou dost embrace her.
Ecc 7:12 For wisdom is a defense, and money is a defense: but the excellency of knowledge is, that wisdom giveth life to them that have it.

No normal person can say that christianity is in direct opposition to a vast amount of scientific progress, when the vast amount of scientific progress has been done by christians and theists. Think about a man like Newton for instance, without whom we cannot fully discuss scientific progress. Many Drs and Professors are also professing chirsitians. They are in all the Universities both home and abroad. Only someone without exposure or without conscience will conclude or imply that science is filled with unbelievers alone.
Please, enlighten me on how Galileo contradicted the picture the gospels painted of our place in the world. Note that christians brought education to many uncivilized places both in the West and in Africa. Till date, many so called churches and christian institutions have schools from Creches to Higher Institutions. What are you saying again?

3. Humanity could understand ourselves better. It is true that humans have innate biological insticts that drive much of our behavior. These insticts, as science continues to find, aren't magical but evolved. They helped our species survive, just like every other animals' insticts help it survive. Rather than helping us understand and best navigate our human instincts (like our emotional reactions & sexuality), religion demonizes and mystifies them. It manufactures a ridiculous amount of shame around simply being human.

Religion also, in it's ignorance, has stamped mental disorders with labels like "spiritual invasion" or "demonic posession". Instead of people getting the psychiatric help they need, people are sent to exorcists and other phony religious leaders for "deliverance". Not only does this put lives & minds in danger, but it generates an unnecessary sense of fear and panic around treatable medical conditions, causing people to fundamentally misunderstand their own mental health.

The late Tim Lahaye's book(i do not remember the name now) is a best seller and a major influence on the study of human behaviour and understanding human behaviour and temperaments better. It has also being more right and proven more practical and reasonable than the option of stargazing and all that Arius nonsense that was the option that so called scientists presented for a long time. Mysticism is not science. The scripture makes us to understand that every human is fearfully and wonderfully made, and it describes the value of ONE soul(person) as being more than all of earth's material wealth. What more importance and priority can be obtained than that? So called scientists(wannabes) of today think that there is no difference between human life and ant life. We've seen nations and organisations leave out God and God's ways for so long, and yet no peace in the world. Despite all the meetings, research, donations and expenditure of the UN, UNESCO, WHO, WorldBank, and all their sister organisations, the world is in more mess than ever before.
Christianity does not stop you from getting psychiatric help, actual fact is that most psychiatric help are christian and theist doctors. Learn to separate abuse and misuse from right use.

4. Humanity could be more proactive & prosperous. Rather than relying on prayer, which is essentially talking to yourself, people could be more likely to take action towards solving their problems if religion were not a factor in their lives. Again, we see that the most prospering and forward-moving countries have smaller percentages of people who think religiously. Because their societies are based in reason and evidence-based thinking, they are quicker to find workable solutions to economic, political, health, and other issues. Much of the law in the developed world is based on our current understanding of these issues according to research. NOT religious books, which were written by people 2,000 years ago who were quite ignorant in these areas.

This again is foolish, vain and baseless. Atheism or a lack of religion does not help anyway in success. Most successful people believe in some form of God. From the best of footballers, to the Olympic winners, many of whom attribute their victories to some form of God or the other. People are not winning or breaking records due to atheism, so where do you get this unfounded faith that lack of religion makes people successful? Do you think the rich men in Nigerian are atheists. Most of the successful people around are theists, there are more theists succesful and breaking records than atheists. My point again is clear, a lack of religion is not a factor in success. God causes His rain to fall on the unjust and on the just. Anybody that follows the principles of success will likely be a success. Any nation or community that follows the basics of righteousness will be exalted.

5. Humanity could be happier. The biggest reason of all that people give for why people need religion, is that it gives them comfort and hope. When going through a rough time, praying helps people cope. When someone dies, the promise that you'll see them again is soothing. Although I don't deny that religion can serve as an emotional bandaid, or even a vessel for truly healing practices (ex. "giving your troubles up to god" could have the same cognitive effect as "accepting what you can't control and doing your best" ), it is NOT, imo, the only way, let alone the best way, for us to achieve happiness and peace.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, the areas of Neuroscience and Psychology are making some incredible discoveries as of late, uncovering long-awaited answers to our mysterious psyches and how to navigate them. Recent studies show that happiness, contentment, and compassion for onesself and others can be learned & practiced as skills; healing from grief, sorrow, and trauma can be achieved through evidence based psychiatric techniques (including self-directed therapies); and life's obstacles can be surmounted by tapping into proven resources (like a nurturing social environment).

In other words, very good answers to how to be happier, how to get over struggles, how to find peace, are out there. In this day and age, the internet, libraries and bookstores are swarming with this information. With some research into these resources, it should become clear that religion has outlived it's usefulness in this area as well.

What does it mean to be happier? Mad people also look happy you know? Demented people and drunk peole also behave happy. Unfortunately, suicide and atheism are close friends, i wonder why. The unbelievers i have met in my life are not happier than me. The unbelievers and the never satisfied atheists here on NL are not the ones to follow. Those ones that get no joy despite their constant wailings and gnashing on teeth every day about God. i have seen and experienced joy in ALL circumstances. So, say no more already. All those so called solutions you are proposing in the PIPELINES which will probably reach the majority poor and less privileged in a vision 2050 or 2100. What happens before then? How to find peace and joy through nurturing social environment and techniques and therapies. This is laughable if it was not a pathetic political promise. i've seen people get peace and joy for free at the feet of Jesus, despite terrible life occurences and challenges. All this grammar you are saying, it is because you are schooling abroad. If you were selling akara to survive and waiting for JAMB to have mercy on your destiny, you would be more real.

So, to conclude, I think that humanity could not only survive without organized religion like the Abrahamic faiths, we could thrive. The children who are raised without the religion across the globe, in areas like the Netherlands, Japan, the Czech Republic, and Iceland, yet become healthy, happy, and functioning members of their societies, are evidence of this. At this point I feel like humanity is clutching on to religion like a child to it's stuffed animal. We don't need it anymore, we just think we do.

The deaths, the sicknesses, the anger, the pain, the dejection, the betrayal, the depression, the dishonesty, the corruption, the wickedness, the sorrow, the selfishness, the sin, they are all a product of the fallen human race. We need Jesus more than ever. Netherlands, Japan, the Czech Republic will continue to experience these until Jesus comes, no magic there. You don't even need a prophet to say that.

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Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by goodguygonebad: 12:43am On Aug 19, 2016
What kind of morality do you refer to? A subjective one or an objective one?




Why bother being good at all?
1. I know what it feels like to be harmed or cheated or lied to, so I empathize with others and try not to harm, cheat, or lie to them.
2. When my empathy is overwhelmed by my own selfishness or greed, I get real human consequences from those around me.
3. Like most people, I want to be liked and respected by those around me, not held in contempt.
4. I don’t want to be looking over my shoulder to see if those I’ve hurt are coming after me. If I treat people well, I can relax.
5. The cooperation and goodwill of those people around me makes my life easier.
6. I have self-respect, which is based in part on how I treat others.
7. I don’t want to be punished for breaking the rules of the society in which I live.
8. I can’t really ask others to behave morally if I don’t behave morally myself.

Some reasons are lofty and some are down to earth. Some may also be in the Bible, but they don’t rely on scripture or God they simply make sense. I can figure them out. In fact, moral development experts say most people figure out the ethical principles that make for a moral life not from books or teachers but through their own interactions with others on the playground, on sports teams, in their families, and in other social groups before they’re out of elementary school. These principles don’t guarantee my good behavior, but neither does any religious doctrine. In both cases, whenever a person loses his or her moral sense, plenty of other people and social institutions are willing to straighten that person out. Everyone makes moral decisions large and small a hundred times a day.And when those decisions are made well, everyone benefits.

Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by compujyde: 1:33am On Aug 19, 2016
...
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by dblackninja: 1:48am On Aug 19, 2016
am0sn0nyu:
I hope she agrees to the clarifications you gave in that post as regarding tribalism and tribal discrimination.

Please visit the post ghostofsparta referred cloudgoddess to above for further enlightenment. Thank me later.

My kind sir...You're still linking tribalism to only ethnicity...that is where you got it all wrong..
Cloudgoddess doesn't need any clarifications, neither does majority of Nigerians need it like you said.
I will like you to study more & correct yourself.. don't wanna say much though..

Once again you [or + your friend] are alone with your opinion.
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by felixomor: 6:14am On Aug 19, 2016
Wetin be this?

How can atheists be discussing about "humanity"?

This is a serious anomaly!

Do these folks know what atheism is sef? shocked
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by horlumiday(m): 6:46am On Aug 19, 2016
lawani:


A homeless mofo saying he is God, creator of all and people believing him cos he hypnotised them is the highest form of evil. He was arrested and executed, yet he still has followers today. That is evil if anything is. No man is what others can nor become
He never said He is God, you see, you won't read original Bible.. People still believ Him, you think people just rush into something without thinking, People believe Him because they have experienced how awesome He is...Since there r plenty religions out there, you should know one of should be the real one.. So nigga, You v ur phone with you, do ur research...
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Ghost01(m): 7:38am On Aug 19, 2016
naijadeyhia:



You responded to someones post. You have not seen or heard the persons voice before but you responded to his post....are you talking to yourself?
In his instance, there is evidence of a dialogue (you post a comment, I respond and vice versa), but a prayer? A prayer is essentially a monologue; all the participant ever does is siloloquise.

1 Like

Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by otemanuduno: 7:42am On Aug 19, 2016
cloudgoddess:
I often see the argument posed by theists, and some atheists, that humanity somehow requires religion to keep from imploding on itself, and taking away religion would lead to widespread chaos and eventually doomsday.

I tend to strongly disagree.

This is a list of ways I think humanity could very likely be better off without religion now (specifically the Abrahamic religions and others with similar doctrines), supported by evidence I've come across.

Without religion:
1. Humanity could get along better. Tribalism is the blanket term to describe the innate human tendency to form alliances and groups against one another. More and more research is showing that tribalism can be overcome, and peace amongst people of different groups can be achieved, the more people are able to see a like-ness in one another. A "you are human just like me, I accept you, I feel comfortable around you".

Religion is a direct obstacle to achieving this like-ness, and it shouldn't be hard to imagine why. Religion teaches millions of people, usually via childhood indoctrination (brainwashing), that because the so-called "creator of the entire universe" said so, they are better, more "holy", more valuable, more moral than other groups of people. This is a perfect recipe for unnecessary tribalistic tendencies. And we see this type of religious tribalism unfolding all over the world, often violently.

Don't get me wrong, tribalism can and does exist in many other forms (racism, imperialism, even people with different tastes in music can form alliances based on that). But what sets religion apart is the fact that it rests upon a firm foundation of fear (of hell), and shielded from criticism in a way other forms of tribalism aren't, making it much harder to overcome.

2. Humanity could better understand the world & universe around us. Since the dawn of scientific & empirical thought, religion has been in direct opposition to a vast amount of scientific progress. No honest person can deny this. When Galileo discovered the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around, the church wanted him killed because it contradicted the picture the gospels painted of our place in the world. The same goes for the anti-evolution nonsense that still goes on today. People are actively against the foundational theory uniting all biology, for no other reason than that it contradicts the religion they were taught.

Religious indoctrination installs cognitive biases in peoples' minds, causing strong feelings of resistance, anger, hostility and paranoia once they are confronted with certain scientific (& sometimes philosophical) topics that call into question the religious worldview they were indoctrinated with. The anti-intellectual, anti-science mindset that religion births is causing billions of people across the globe to remain centuries behind on a huge chunk of human knowledge. Thus, impeding the scientific & intellectual progress of humanity as a whole.

According to surveys, the countries with the lowest populations of religious people have the highest rates of quality education. It's not always accurate to imply causation from correlation, and the relationship might flow both ways, but it's quite obvious that the more religious someone is, the more unwelcoming of science they're likely to be.

3. Humanity could understand ourselves better. It is true that humans have innate biological insticts that drive much of our behavior. These insticts, as science continues to find, aren't magical but evolved. They helped our species survive, just like every other animals' insticts help it survive. Rather than helping us understand and best navigate our human instincts (like our emotional reactions & sexuality), religion demonizes and mystifies them. It manufactures a ridiculous amount of shame around simply being human.

Religion also, in it's ignorance, has stamped mental disorders with labels like "spiritual invasion" or "demonic posession". Instead of people getting the psychiatric help they need, people are sent to exorcists and other phony religious leaders for "deliverance". Not only does this put lives & minds in danger, but it generates an unnecessary sense of fear and panic around treatable medical conditions, causing people to fundamentally misunderstand their own mental health.

4. Humanity could be more proactive & prosperous. Rather than relying on prayer, which is essentially talking to yourself, people could be more likely to take action towards solving their problems if religion were not a factor in their lives. Again, we see that the most prospering and forward-moving countries have smaller percentages of people who think religiously. Because their societies are based in reason and evidence-based thinking, they are quicker to find workable solutions to economic, political, health, and other issues. Much of the law in the developed world is based on our current understanding of these issues according to research. NOT religious books, which were written by people 2,000 years ago who were quite ignorant in these areas.

5. Humanity could be happier. The biggest reason of all that people give for why people need religion, is that it gives them comfort and hope. When going through a rough time, praying helps people cope. When someone dies, the promise that you'll see them again is soothing. Although I don't deny that religion can serve as an emotional bandaid, or even a vessel for truly healing practices (ex. "giving your troubles up to god" could have the same cognitive effect as "accepting what you can't control and doing your best" ), it is NOT, imo, the only way, let alone the best way, for us to achieve happiness and peace.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, the areas of Neuroscience and Psychology are making some incredible discoveries as of late, uncovering long-awaited answers to our mysterious psyches and how to navigate them. Recent studies show that happiness, contentment, and compassion for onesself and others can be learned & practiced as skills; healing from grief, sorrow, and trauma can be achieved through evidence based psychiatric techniques (including self-directed therapies); and life's obstacles can be surmounted by tapping into proven resources (like a nurturing social environment).

In other words, very good answers to how to be happier, how to get over struggles, how to find peace, are out there. In this day and age, the internet, libraries and bookstores are swarming with this information. With some research into these resources, it should become clear that religion has outlived it's usefulness in this area as well.

So, to conclude, I think that humanity could not only survive without organized religion like the Abrahamic faiths, we could thrive. The children who are raised without the religion across the globe, in areas like the Netherlands, Japan, the Czech Republic, and Iceland, yet become healthy, happy, and functioning members of their societies, are evidence of this. At this point I feel like humanity is clutching on to religion like a child to it's stuffed animal. We don't need it anymore, we just think we do.

You are on point. 4evergod, what do you have to say about this?
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Ghost01(m): 7:43am On Aug 19, 2016
felixomor:
Wetin be this?

How can atheists be discussing about "humanity"?

This is a serious anomaly!

Do these folks know what atheism is sef? shocked
Care to educate us?
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by otemanuduno: 7:46am On Aug 19, 2016
eph12:

And is that a problem? No! Your God is the true God? Fine! My God is the true God? Fine. Both fine by me. It's not my headache. It's not my business trying to prove mine is the true God or yours is. It shouldn't be a big deal really.

All gods are the children of ALMIGHTY GOD whose name in Latin is DOMINO REVERAD.
check here to know more about ALMIGHTY GOD who does not demand worship but the use of individual brains to do good to humanities and making findings. https://www.nairaland.com/2938907/doctrine-ufos
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Nobody: 7:46am On Aug 19, 2016
Ghost01:
In his instance, there is evidence of a dialogue (you post a comment, I respond and vice versa), but a prayer? A prayer is essentially a monologue; all the participant ever does is siloloquise.

wrong! A prayer is an act of Faith and the one praying does get responded to. If you feel it is soliloquy does not stop people from praying or getting their prayers answered.

Proof of a virtual world discussion doesnt mean you are speaking with a person...you may as well be speaking with a bot pre-programmed with responses and you may just be soliloquizing thus.
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Ghost01(m): 8:12am On Aug 19, 2016
naijadeyhia:


wrong! A prayer is an act of Faith and the one praying does get responded to. If you feel it is soliloquy does not stop people from praying or getting their prayers answered.

Proof of a virtual world discussion doesnt mean you are speaking with a person...you may as well be speaking with a bot pre-programmed with responses and you may just be soliloquizing thus.
And how does this response come? Via a little voice in your head or a voice from the wind?
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Nobody: 8:23am On Aug 19, 2016
Ghost01:
And how does this response come? Via a little voice in your head or a voice from the wind?

What you do not know is your bane. Personally He speaks to me via dreams and visions or even via a deep inner voice. This may sound all crazy to you but experience is what i have while you have mockery and assumptions.

I had to learn how to know He is the one by comparing his words or dreams with His scripture as spiritual has to be tested with spiritual and discernment.

This is all strange to you so i understand.
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by neocortex: 8:59am On Aug 19, 2016
am0sn0nyu:

Did you read this post at all ? If you did, you would understand that I only differentiate what it is to mean by tribalism and what is not but usually and erroneously referred to as tribalism.

I read the post, your attempt to differentiate tribalism from its negative effects
is your limited understanding of what tribalism is.

Let me help you with some definitions.

1. Tribalism : the state or fact of being organized in a tribe or tribes.
2. Tribalism : the behaviour and attitudes that stem from strong loyalty to one's own tribe or social group.

3. Tribalism : loyalty to a tribe or other social group especially when combined with strong negative feelings
for people outside the group.

I believe you are only aware of definition number one, that is why you think tribalism is
different from tribal discrimination. Tribalism has several meanings like other english words,
hence there is no point using only one meaning to explain the phenomenon.
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Ghost01(m): 9:01am On Aug 19, 2016
naijadeyhia:


What you do not know is your bane. Personally He speaks to me via dreams and visions or even via a deep inner voice. This may sound all crazy to you but experience is what i have while you have mockery and assumptions.

I had to learn how to know He is the one by comparing his words or dreams with His scripture as spiritual has to be tested with spiritual and discernment.

This is all strange to you so i understand.

So you mean someone might have been speaking to me too through my dreams and thoughts over the years? How illuminating!
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by ValentineMary(m): 9:08am On Aug 19, 2016
eph12:

Hmmm I need to spell everything out for you? This is strange. Atheist are usually the smarter ones. In case you weren't told, there is a difference between God and god. Yes the Bible says there is only one God but many gods. See the difference? Good!

I am sure anyone reading this would be certain that u ain't making much sense.
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by Nobody: 9:08am On Aug 19, 2016
cloudgoddess:


Without religion:
1. Humanity could get along better. Tribalism is the blanket term to describe the innate human tendency to form alliances and groups against one another. More and more research is showing that tribalism can be overcome, and peace amongst people of different groups can be achieved, the more people are able to see a like-ness in one another. A "you are human just like me, I accept you, I feel comfortable around you".

Religion is a direct obstacle to achieving this like-ness, and it shouldn't be hard to imagine why. Religion teaches millions of people, usually via childhood indoctrination (brainwashing), that because the so-called "creator of the entire universe" said so, they are better, more "holy", more valuable, more moral than other groups of people. This is a perfect recipe for unnecessary tribalistic tendencies. And we see this type of religious tribalism unfolding all over the world, often violently.

Don't get me wrong, tribalism can and does exist in many other forms (racism, imperialism, even people with different tastes in music can form alliances based on that). But what sets religion apart is the fact that it rests upon a firm foundation of fear (of hell), and shielded from criticism in a way other forms of tribalism aren't, making it much harder to overcome.

First, tribalism has little to do with religion. It is worthy of note that some racists do not believe in God. Racism do not promote a healthy communal living. Taking religion out does not address this problem.

Secondly, Religion, for most part, does not teach that one set of people are better than the other. Let's take the largest single religious group (Catholicism) as a case study. In Catholicism what is taught is quite different from what you postulated. We are taught to strive for holiness.

Holiness comprise largely of doing good to others and negates the teaching of 'we are better than them'. Matter of fact, anyone who believes he or she is better than the other, necessarily go against humility which is one of the most extolled virtue.

As regards the teaching of Hell...though a number of Religious group frown at this but I believe in it firmly. The teaching of reward and consequence for any good or wrong is not new, even to those who do not believe in God. If you commit murder, I shouldn't give you a pat on the back for a job well done.

cloudgoddess:

2. Humanity could better understand the world & universe around us. Since the dawn of scientific & empirical thought, religion has been in direct opposition to a vast amount of scientific progress. No honest person can deny this. When Galileo discovered the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around, the church wanted him killed because it contradicted the picture the gospels painted of our place in the world. The same goes for the anti-evolution nonsense that still goes on today. People are actively against the foundational theory uniting all biology, for no other reason than that it contradicts the religion they were taught.

Religious indoctrination installs cognitive biases in peoples' minds, causing strong feelings of resistance, anger, hostility and paranoia once they are confronted with certain scientific (& sometimes philosophical) topics that call into question the religious worldview they were indoctrinated with. The anti-intellectual, anti-science mindset that religion births is causing billions of people across the globe to remain centuries behind on a huge chunk of human knowledge. Thus, impeding the scientific & intellectual progress of humanity as a whole.

According to surveys, the countries with the lowest populations of religious people have the highest rates of quality education. It's not always accurate to imply causation from correlation, and the relationship might flow both ways, but it's quite obvious that the more religious someone is, the more unwelcoming of science they're likely to be.

@Bold you forgot to mention that the Jesuits, who happens to be a 'brotherhood' of Priests and religious supported Galileo's discovery. You should differentiate between the acts of individuals within a religious sect and what the Religion itself teaches. A number of leading scientists were and are members of one Religious groups or the other.

Taking an example and extending it to the whole is fallacious, especially when your comment does not in any way apply to every member of that population. I can agree that some Religious group, say Catholicism, try to regulate the extent to which science and technology can influence humanity but I don't see this as a wrong in itself...even various governments and scientists attempt to do the same.


cloudgoddess:

3. Humanity could understand ourselves better. It is true that humans have innate biological insticts that drive much of our behavior. These insticts, as science continues to find, aren't magical but evolved. They helped our species survive, just like every other animals' insticts help it survive. Rather than helping us understand and best navigate our human instincts (like our emotional reactions & sexuality), religion demonizes and mystifies them. It manufactures a ridiculous amount of shame around simply being human.

Religion also, in it's ignorance, has stamped mental disorders with labels like "spiritual invasion" or "demonic posession". Instead of people getting the psychiatric help they need, people are sent to exorcists and other phony religious leaders for "deliverance". Not only does this put lives & minds in danger, but it generates an unnecessary sense of fear and panic around treatable medical conditions, causing people to fundamentally misunderstand their own mental health.

4. Humanity could be more proactive & prosperous. Rather than relying on prayer, which is essentially talking to yourself, people could be more likely to take action towards solving their problems if religion were not a factor in their lives. Again, we see that the most prospering and forward-moving countries have smaller percentages of people who think religiously. Because their societies are based in reason and evidence-based thinking, they are quicker to find workable solutions to economic, political, health, and other issues. Much of the law in the developed world is based on our current understanding of these issues according to research. NOT religious books, which were written by people 2,000 years ago who were quite ignorant in these areas.

5. Humanity could be happier. The biggest reason of all that people give for why people need religion, is that it gives them comfort and hope. When going through a rough time, praying helps people cope. When someone dies, the promise that you'll see them again is soothing. Although I don't deny that religion can serve as an emotional bandaid, or even a vessel for truly healing practices (ex. "giving your troubles up to god" could have the same cognitive effect as "accepting what you can't control and doing your best" ), it is NOT, imo, the only way, let alone the best way, for us to achieve happiness and peace.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, the areas of Neuroscience and Psychology are making some incredible discoveries as of late, uncovering long-awaited answers to our mysterious psyches and how to navigate them. Recent studies show that happiness, contentment, and compassion for onesself and others can be learned & practiced as skills; healing from grief, sorrow, and trauma can be achieved through evidence based psychiatric techniques (including self-directed therapies); and life's obstacles can be surmounted by tapping into proven resources (like a nurturing social environment).

In other words, very good answers to how to be happier, how to get over struggles, how to find peace, are out there. In this day and age, the internet, libraries and bookstores are swarming with this information. With some research into these resources, it should become clear that religion has outlived it's usefulness in this area as well.

So, to conclude, I think that humanity could not only survive without organized religion like the Abrahamic faiths, we could thrive. The children who are raised without the religion across the globe, in areas like the Netherlands, Japan, the Czech Republic, and Iceland, yet become healthy, happy, and functioning members of their societies, are evidence of this. At this point I feel like humanity is clutching on to religion like a child to it's stuffed animal. We don't need it anymore, we just think we do.

I don't have much time to spend on this as I need to get back to work but I will say this.....North Korea has a classic Atheistic government who go all out to discourage religion, even by the use of force but even at that, the state can best described as a failed one.

They are isolated from the rest of the world, there is no freedom of anything there. The lives of the citizenry is so regulated that you can't possibly live a life worth much in North Korea.

PS: The countries you mentioned have 'organised' religion. Buddhism thrives in Japan..well over 50% are in one organised Religion or the other. In Czechoslovakia, over 30% declares no religion, that leaves very much room for organised religion...matter of fact, over 10% of the population are Catholics. Same can be said of the other countries you mentioned.
Re: Things Humanity Could Do Better Without Religion by ValentineMary(m): 9:17am On Aug 19, 2016
naijadeyhia:


Go through the meaning again. Jealous as applied to God means to be protective, defensive, vigilant, watchful, heedful, mindful, careful, solicitous, attentive. Only a powerful being can do these things and it has nothing to do with insecurity! The insecure ones are the creature and not their creator. Only the maker can offer adequate protection, defense, vigilance, watchfulness, take heed, be mindful, careful, attentive to His Creation.

His Jealousy is not the kind that you ladies have for one another. That aspect is not in Gods makeup same way God cannot lie.
This is what u said
feeling or showing an envious resentment of
someone or their achievements, possessions,
or perceived advantages.
I have noticed that u are not always consistent in argument.

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