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Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by winner01(m): 4:01pm On Aug 27, 2016
This Article is by Peter Kreeft

"Belief in God, according to atheists, is irrational, illogical, and dumb. Belief that the universe created itself is, they say, intelligent, rational, and based in science. This is simply false. Nothing can create itself. Everything has a cause -- including the universe. That cause, argues Peter Kreeft, professor of philosophy at Boston College, is God, the "unmoved mover." Belief in God, as Kreeft shows, is more rational than belief in nothing. Logic, science, and reason, support God. Atheism, as you'll see, is far more steeped in blind faith than is belief".



So is it rational to believe in God?


Many people think that faith and reason are opposites; that belief in God and tough-minded logical reasoning are like oil and water. They are wrong. Belief in God is far more rational than atheism.


Logic can show that there is a God. If you look at the universe with common sense and an open mind, you’ll find that it’s full of God’s fingerprints.


A good place to start is with an argument by Thomas Aquinas, the great 13th century philosopher and theologian.


The argument starts with the not very startling observation that things move. But nothing moves for no reason. Something must cause that movement. And whatever caused that, must be caused by something else, and so on. But this causal chain cannot go backwards forever. It must have a beginning. There must be an Unmoved Mover to begin all the motion in the universe: a first domino to start the whole chain moving, since mere matter never moves itself.


A modern objection to this argument is that some movements things in quantum mechanics -- radioactive decay, for example -- have no discernible cause, but hang on a second. Just because scientists don’t see a cause, doesn’t mean there isn’t one. It just means science hasn’t found it yet. Maybe some day they will. But then there will have to be a new cause to explain that one. And so on and so on. But science will never find the first cause. That’s no knock on science. It simply means that a first cause lies outside the realm of science.


Another way to explain this argument is that everything that begins must have a cause. Nothing can come from nothing. So if there is no first cause, there can’t be second causes. Or anything at all. In other words, if there’s no creator, there can’t be a universe.


But, what if the universe were infinitely old, you might ask? Well, all scientists today agree that the universe is not infinitely old, that it had a beginning in the Big Bang.


If the universe had a beginning, then it didn’t have to exist. And things which don’t have to exist, must have a cause.


There’s confirmation of this argument from Big Bang Cosmology. We now know that all matter, that is, the whole universe, came into existence some 13.7 billion years ago and it’s been expanding and cooling ever since. No scientist doubts that anymore, even though before it was scientifically proved, atheists called it “creationism in disguise.”


Now add to this premise, a very logical second premise -- the principal of causality that nothing begins without an adequate cause. And you get the conclusion that since there was a Big Bang, there must be a Big Banger.


But is this Big Banger God?


Why couldn’t it be just another universe? Because Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity says that all time is relative to matter and since all matter began 13.7 billion years ago, so did all time. So there’s no time before the Big Bang.


And even if there is time before the Big Bang, even if there is a multi-verse, that is, many universes with many Big Bangs, as String Theory says is mathematically possible, that too must have a beginning. An absolute beginning is what most people mean by God.


Yet, some atheists find the existence of an infinite number of other universes more rational than the existence of a Creator. Never mind that there is no empirical evidence at all that any of these unknown universes exists, let alone a thousand or a gazillion.


The conclusion that God exists doesn’t require faith. Atheism requires faith. It takes faith to believe in everything coming from nothing. It takes only reason to believe in everything coming from God.


Source:https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/god-vs-atheism-which-more-rational

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Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by EyeHateGod: 4:15pm On Aug 27, 2016
grin grin I know U ain't that Educated

1 Like

Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by thesicilian: 4:25pm On Aug 27, 2016
Why I hate arguments: Everyone comes to the table with their own opinions, get in a heated debate, and leaves with the same opinions they came in with.

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Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by winner01(m): 4:27pm On Aug 27, 2016
thesicilian:
Why I hate arguments: Everyone comes to the table with their own opinions, get in a heated debate, and leaves with the same opinions they came in with.
True. But shouldnt we try to present our side, for people who might be infected with the venom of militant atheism?
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by peacesamuel94(m): 5:10pm On Aug 27, 2016
I consider other religious bodies even more logical than atheism. Atheists are actually after the logic that backs up religion, whereas atheism itself is not reasonable. Atheists believe that every effect has a cause except the universe!

5 Likes 1 Share

Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by youngestland: 5:31pm On Aug 27, 2016
again!!! please athiesm is the lack of belief in the existence of a god
not all atheist believe in science theories big bang, evolution etc are all bullshit to me
please prove to me that god wasnt created like other things or give me concrete evidence that a god exist shikena

so until then all you have written is zero. and religion is irrational
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by EyeHateGod: 5:32pm On Aug 27, 2016
youngestland:
again!!! please[s] athiesm is the believe that there is no god [/s] atheism is a Lack of belief....
not all atheist believe in science theories big bang, evolution etc are all bullshit to me
please prove to me that god wasnt created like other things or give me concrete evidence that a god exist shikena

so until then all you have written is zero. and religion is irrational
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by EyeHateGod: 5:34pm On Aug 27, 2016
winner01:
Do atheists ever have anything to talk about other than God and christianity? undecided
Says someone that have over 140 topic on Atheism undecided

2 Likes

Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by Nobody: 5:37pm On Aug 27, 2016
EyeHateGod:
grin grin I know U ain't that Educated

I guess you did not read the OP and as usual decided to type childishly as you always do just to make a comment.

FYI Christopher hitchens whose image you put up there is dead and his immediate younger brother who was once a very volatile Atheist worse than Christopher is now born again and a serious advocate for the gospel of Jesus..... You may need to look up the name PETER HITCHENS.

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Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by Nobody: 5:39pm On Aug 27, 2016
youngestland:
again!!! please athiesm is the believe that there is no god
not all atheist believe in science theories big bang, evolution etc are all bullshit to me
please prove to me that god wasnt created like other things or give me concrete evidence that a god exist shikena

so until then all you have written is zero. and religion is irrational

Then consider the OP as a write up for those Atheists who believe in the big bang so let it be rubbish to you but the next one might just be specifically for you grin

So your kind of Atheism has a belief that there is no God.......Even you do not even know what you represent. smh...confusion
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by EyeHateGod: 5:46pm On Aug 27, 2016
4everGod:


I guess you did not read the OP and as usual decided to type childishly as you always do just to make a comment.

FYI Christopher hitchens whose image you put up there is dead and his immediate younger brother who was once a very volatile Atheist worse than Christopher is now born again and a serious advocate for the gospel of Jesus..... You may need to look up the name PETER HITCHENS.

And how is that my Business? It still doesn't prove God Exist

Peter Hitchens's elder brother, writer and atheist Christopher Hitchens, died in December 2011. Christopher Hitchens had said the main difference between them was belief in the existence of God.[145] Peter Hitchens has stated "We're different people, we have different lives, we have entirely different pleasures, we live in different continents. If we weren't brothers we wouldn't know each other."[146] In 2010, Theodore Dalrymple wrote, "Perhaps the division between the two brothers is essentially this: One believes that man can live by his own individual reason alone; the other believes that something else is necessary and inevitable."[147] The brothers debated on a number of occasions.
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by EyeHateGod: 5:48pm On Aug 27, 2016
4everGod:


Then consider the OP as a write up for those Atheists who believe in the big bang so let it be rubbish to you but the next one might just be specifically for you grin

So your kind of Atheism has a belief that there is no God.......Even you do not even know what you represent. smh...confusion
He is a newbie grin
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by youngestland: 5:52pm On Aug 27, 2016
thanks lack of belief in the existence of a god thanks eyehategod
4everGod:

Then consider the OP as a write up for those Atheists who believe in the big bang so let it be rubbish to you but the next one might just be specifically for you grin
So your kind of Atheism has a belief that there is no God.......Even you do not even know what you represent. smh...confusion
[quote author=EyeHateGod post=48852112][/quote]

am seriously waiting I dont want theory I want practical
I want sign and wonders like jesus of the bible said you guys should do
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by Nobody: 5:57pm On Aug 27, 2016
EyeHateGod:

And how is that my Business? It still doesn't prove God Exist


Yeah it doesnt right? Here is one of the strongest advocates for Atheism whose brother had all the reason to deny the existence of God due to the direct influence of Christopher and right under Christophers nose his younger brother encountered Christ and dumped his elder brother and even confronted him in debates on a number of occassions while Christopher was still alive until Cancer took him.

That same brother who Publicly burned the bible among other terrible vices made a complete U turn while Christopher was alive and is now more vocal than ever and destroying everything that Christopher established.... Isnt God awesome? Using someone from the house of another who despised Him to further His work.

Awesome sense of humor...So yeah its none of your business because if Christopher Hitchens could not put a dent in the gospel while he was alive and is now dead with the gospel even stronger now than before with a direct witness of the gospel coming from his own household....my brother its not your business o. lol

Na siddon look i go just dey look you as you want to be the one greater than Christopher who can do what he couldnt do.




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Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by Nobody: 5:59pm On Aug 27, 2016
youngestland:

thanks lack of belief in the existence of a god thanks eyehategod


am seriously waiting I dont want theory I want practical
I want sign and wonders like jesus of the bible said you guys should do



Like he said, "you are a newbie"

3 Likes 2 Shares

Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by EyeHateGod: 6:08pm On Aug 27, 2016
4everGod:



Yeah it doesnt right? Here is one of the strongest advocates for Atheism whose brother had all the reason to deny the existence of God due to the direct influence of Christopher and right under Christophers nose his younger brother encountered Christ and dumped his elder brother and even confronted him in debates on a number of occassions while Christopher was still alive until Cancer took him.
@modified and besides Politics & Religion Always go together
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by youngestland: 6:16pm On Aug 27, 2016
4everGod:



Like he said, "you are a newbie"


lol thats your own opinion o
please can you prove god wasnt created or do you have proof god exist according to the op. because thats all I have been looking for since I started this journey undecided
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by Nobody: 6:17pm On Aug 27, 2016
Redefine Atheism as you wish then Show it as illogical whilst arguing for Deism.




Same old same old.

2 Likes

Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by winner01(m): 6:24pm On Aug 27, 2016
SirWere:
Redefine Atheism as you wish then Show it as illogical whilst arguing for Deism.




Same old same old.
Do you have anything new?
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by Nobody: 6:25pm On Aug 27, 2016
youngestland:


lol thats your own opinion o
please can you prove god wasnt created or do you have proof god exist according to the op because thats all I have been looking for since I started this journey undecided


Which Journey? If you say you are on a Journey it means you have a destination...but since you are a newbie let me give you a crash course on the destination a true atheist has for "destination"

An Atheist does not believe in heaven or hell so believe we are a walking lump of chemicals without purpose and basically without direction as we all would end up as manure for plants when we die so an Atheists life ends here on earth like that of a dog or a chicken as all they would become is plant food.

An Atheist is never willing to accept any proof for the existence of God because they are already in self denial so any external proof to the atheist would be met with stiff resistance so only an atheist can get proof of the existence of God by himself and to himself.

An atheist does not believe in morality i.e right or wrong as to him anything is permissible as long as you can get away with it and not be caught so an atheist can kill, steal, commit rape, pedophilia, homosexuality and all other vices as long as they are ok with it and are not caught by any law governing such.

So let me ask you the depth of Atheism you have gotten...

Do you believe in right or wrong?

Do you believe that when you die you would just be plant food and thats the end of you?

Can you commit beastiality or homosexuality?

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Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by winner01(m): 6:26pm On Aug 27, 2016
EyeHateGod:

And how is that my Business? It still doesn't prove God Exist

Peter Hitchens's elder brother, writer and atheist Christopher Hitchens, died in December 2011. Christopher Hitchens had said the main difference between them was belief in the existence of God.[145] Peter Hitchens has stated "We're different people, we have different lives, we have entirely different pleasures, we live in different continents. If we weren't brothers we wouldn't know each other."[146] In 2010, Theodore Dalrymple wrote, "Perhaps the division between the two brothers is essentially this: One believes that man can live by his own individual reason alone; the other believes that something else is necessary and inevitable."[147] The brothers debated on a number of occasions.
What is this? undecided

Use your brain at least. undecided

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by winner01(m): 6:28pm On Aug 27, 2016
4everGod:


[size=14pt]An Atheist is never willing to accept any proof for the existence of God because they are already in self denial [/size]

Golden!!!

2 Likes

Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by EyeHateGod: 6:28pm On Aug 27, 2016
winner01:
What is this? undecided

Use your brain at least. undecided

grin the person m refering to knows himself
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by Nobody: 6:34pm On Aug 27, 2016
EyeHateGod:


grin the person m refering to knows himself

This must be you. Always pocking yourself in the eye in an attempt to be silly

Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by winner01(m): 6:34pm On Aug 27, 2016
EyeHateGod:


grin the person m refering to knows himself
What you copied was crap. angry
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by Nobody: 6:38pm On Aug 27, 2016
winner01:
What you copied was crap. angry


Thats why i gave him that gif. He is just all over the place typing crap that is not related to anything and flagrantly displaying ignorance and being proud of it.

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Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by DeSepiero(m): 6:41pm On Aug 27, 2016
reading
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by EyeHateGod: 6:50pm On Aug 27, 2016
winner01:
What you copied was crap. angry
4everGod:

This must be you. Always pocking yourself in the eye in an attempt to be silly
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by donnffd(m): 6:52pm On Aug 27, 2016
peacesamuel94:
I consider other religious bodies even more logical than atheism. Atheists are actually after the logic that backs up religion, whereas atheism itself is not reasonable. Atheists believe that every effect has a cause except the universe!

Theists believe that every effect has a cause except God



So in essence, Atheists and theist have the same logic...which by your definition is not reasonable...
Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by KingEbukasBlog(m): 6:58pm On Aug 27, 2016
donnffd:


Theists believe that every effect has a cause except God



So in essence, Atheists and theist have the same logic...which by your definition is not reasonable...

Its impossible for the universe to be eternal . It has a cause and a beginning . Atheists stole the idea of an e uncaused cause from religion - very pathetic .

Nice thread bro @ winner01

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Re: Belief In God Vs. Atheism: Which Is More Rational? by peacesamuel94(m): 7:20pm On Aug 27, 2016
donnffd:


Theists believe that every effect has a cause except God



So in essence, Atheists and theist have the same logic...which by your definition is not reasonable...



A supposedly Supreme Creator that was created, is not qualified to be called God in the first place.
cause and effect applies to the universe and all that is within it.
The God I'm talking about exist outside of space and time and does not need to be
caused by any force. He has no beginning neither does he have an end.

I don't know about you, but it sounds more logical to believe that an all powerful conscious being came from nothing and created the universe
than to believe that the material universe (which of course, needs be caused since it does not exist outside of space and time) came from nothing and created everything.

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