The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) - Religion - Nairaland
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| The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by grailife(m): 1:35pm On Nov 27, 2005 |
The Holy Grail The Holy Vessel in the Grail-castle, as a symbol of the purest divine Love, as the pledge of Father-God's eternal goodness and the departure point for the outgoing divine power The Holy Grail -Abdruschin- -In The Light Of Truth- » Manifold are the interpretations of the poetic works which exist about the Holy Grail. The most serious scholars and researchers have occupied themselves with this mystery. Some of their work has high moral value, but it all bears within it the great fault that it shows only a building up from the earthly upwards, while the main thing, the ray of Light from above downwards, which alone could bring animation and enlightenment, is lacking. All that strives from below upwards must come to a halt at the boundary of material substance, even when it is permitted to attain to the highest. In most cases, however, with the most favourable pre-conditions, barely half of this way can be covered. But how far then is the way yet to the true recognition of the Holy Grail! This intuitive perception that it is so unattainable finally makes itself felt with the researchers. The result is that they try to take the Grail as a purely symbolic designation of a concept, in order thus to give it the high place which they quite rightly sense inwardly to be necessary for this designation. In so doing, however, they are really going backward, not forward. Downward instead of upward. They are deviating from the right way which the poetic works already indicate in part. Only these allow the Truth to be divined. But only to be divined, because the high inspirations and visionary pictures of the poets were made far toTo earthly through the intellect co-operating in the transmission. They endowed the reproduction of what was spiritually received with the image of their earthly surroundings at the time, in order thus to make the meaning of their poetic work more understandable to men, in which nevertheless they still did not succeed, because they themselves could not come close to the real essence of the Truth. The Parsifal is a great promise. The deficiencies and errors, which through their all too earthly way of thinking the poets of the legends have added, distort the real essence of this Figure. Parsifal is one with the Son of Man, Whose Coming the Son of God Himself proclaimed. An Envoy of God, with a bandage before His spiritual eyes, He will have to go through the most severe earthly hardships, outwardly as man among men. After a certain time, freed from this bandage, He must again recognise His Starting-point and with it Himself, as well as clearly seeing His Mission before Him. This Mission will likewise bring a redemption for the seriously-seeking humanity, linked with a rigorous Judgment. For this, however, not just any human being can be assumed, much less still is the possible experiencing of numerous or even of all men to be recognised in it; but it will be only one quite definite, especially sent One. No spiritual-substantiate one, however high and pure and radiant, is able to cross the boundary to the Divine. The boundary, and the impossibility of crossing it, lies also here, as in the spheres or planes of Material Creation, simply in the nature of things, in the difference between the species. As uppermost and highest is God Himself in His Divine Unsubstantiality. Then next and somewhat lower comes Divine Substantiality. Both are eternal. Only then is this joined by the Work of Creation, going deeper and deeper, becoming denser and denser in descending planes or spheres down to the finite World of Gross Matter, which becomes visible to human beings. The ethereal in Material Creation is what men call the beyond. Thus what is beyond their earthly, gross material ability to see. Both, however, belong to the Work of Creation, and are not eternal in their form, but subject to change for the purpose of renewal and regeneration. It is a Chalice, in which there is a ceaseless bubbling and surging like red blood, without ever overflowing. Radiantly enveloped by the lightest of Light, it is granted only to the purest of all the Spiritual-Substantiate ones to be able to look into this Light. These are Guardians of the Holy Grail! When it is said in the poetic works that the purest of men are destined to become Guardians of the Grail, this is a point which the blessed poet has made all too earthly, because he was unable to express himself differently. No human spirit can enter into this hallowed Shrine. Even in its most perfect spiritual substantiality, after returning from its course through the World of Matter, it is still not etherised enough to cross the threshold, thus the boundary. Even in its highest perfection it is still too dense to do so. A further etherisation for it would have to be equivalent to complete disintegration or combustion, because from its origin its species is not adapted to becoming even more radiant and luminous, hence even more etherised. It cannot bear it. From time to time on the Day of the Holy Dove, the Dove appears above the Vessel as a renewed token of the unchanging Divine Love of the Father. It is the Hour of Communion, which brings renewal of Power. The Guardians of the Grail receive it in humble devotion, and are then able to pass on this miraculous Power which they have received. On this depends the existence of the whole Creation! It is the moment when in the Temple of the Holy Grail the Creator's Love radiantly pours forth to bring new life, a new creative urge which, pulsating downwards, spreads through the whole Universe. With it goes a trembling through all the spheres, a holy awe of joy filled with diving, of great happiness. Only the spirit of earthman still stands aside, without intuitively perceiving what is happening just to him at that moment, what an immeasurable gift he apathetically accepts, because his self-restriction in the intellect no longer allows him to grasp such greatness. It is the moment of life-supply for the whole Creation! The constant, necessary recurrence of a ratification of the Covenant which the Creator keeps with His Work. Should this supply ever be cut off, should it fail to appear, then all that exists would slowly have to wither, grow old and decay. Then would come the end of all days, and only God Himself would remain, as it was in the beginning! Because He alone is Life Man should cease to regard the Holy Grail only as something intangible; for it really exists! But the human spirit, owing to its nature, is denied the possibility of ever beholding it. Yet the blessing that streams forth from it, and which can be and also is passed on by the Guardians of the Grail, can be received and enjoyed by the human spirits if they open themselves to it. In this sense some of the interpretations cannot exactly be called wrong, as long as in their explanations they do not try to draw the Holy Grail itself into them. They are right, and yet again not right. The appearance of the Dove on the appointed Day of the Holy Dove indicates the sending each time of the Holy Spirit; for this Dove is in close association with Him. But that is something which the human spirit is only able to grasp figuratively, because by the nature of things the human spirit at its highest development can in reality only think, know and perceive intuitively up to the point from which it came itself, thus as far as the species that is one with its purest nature of origin. That is the eternal Spiritual Substantiality. Even in its thinking it will never be able to cross this boundary. Nor can it ever grasp anything beyond it. This is so self-evident, logical and simple that every human being can follow the train of thought. What is above this, however, will and must for this reason always be and remain a mystery to mankind! Hence it is also wrong to declare that the human spirit issues from God the Father Himself and returns to Him. The origin of man is Spiritual Substantiality, not Divine Unsubstantiality. Therefore even on attaining perfection, it can only return as far as to Spiritual Substantiality. It is right to say that the human spirit originates in the Kingdom of God and can therefore also, when it becomes perfect, return again into the Kingdom of God, but not to God Himself. Later there will yet follow detailed lectures about the individual divisions of Creation, which are quite different in their essential nature. At the highest height of each one of these planes of Creation there is a Grail Castle as the necessary place of transition and power-transmission. Formed in accordance with the essential nature of the Creation-planes concerned, this is always a replica of the real, highest Grail Castle which stands at the summit of the whole Creation, and which is the Starting-point of the whole Creation through the radiations of Parsifal. Amfortas was Priest and King in the lowest of these replicas of the Grail Castle, which stands at the summit of the plane of all the human spirits who have developed from spirit seed-grains, thus closest to mankind on earth. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by WesleyanA(f): 4:26am On Nov 28, 2005 |
I first read about the holy grail in Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code and i really don't remember anything except it's fiction. 1 Like |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by donnie(m): 5:37pm On Nov 30, 2005 |
Oh my, so cumbersome, with such big words. How can we follow?  i thank God for Jesus, the bible says, the common people heard him gladly. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by RhodaRose(f): 2:03am On Dec 01, 2005 |
The Holy Grail is so close to the Shroud of Turin would you mind if I said something about that here? The shroud is said to have been under Jesus and over the head and on top, as "draped", all of one piece. I have seen it many times on TV but the Bible says: John 11:44 And he (Lazarus) that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. Joh 19:40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury. Joh 20:6-7 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. As you can see the "manner of the Jews to bury" is to wrap the body in linen stripes and to cover the head with a cloth. Not a one piece "shroud of turin". Otherwise how could Peter see the linen clothes in one place and the napkin that covered His head lying in another place, alone? Food for thought anyway. RhodaRose |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by gabuu(m): 3:31pm On Dec 09, 2005 |
graillife. I am assuming that you have read the message and living the message. from the reponse you got ,that should give you a fare idea of the amount of work that is required for mankind to understand what you are talking about. we give thanks to the Almighty for his garce. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Hndholder(m): 4:56pm On Dec 15, 2005 |
The grail message, is in Book I read, it is in three volumes. I got my knowledged about creation improved by that book call IN the light of Truth. Grailife , Are you a chritian or Muslim ? What is your belief like? |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by WesleyanA(f): 1:11am On Dec 16, 2005 |
http://www.rosslyntemplars.org.uk/holy_grail.htm <------ click on the link. it's that cup presumably used by Jesus on the last supper. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Hndholder(m): 12:13pm On Dec 16, 2005 |
Manifold are the interpretations of the poetic works which exist about the Holy Grail. The most serious scholars and researchers have occupied themselves with this mystery. Some of their work has high moral value, but it all bears within it the great fault that it shows only a building up from the earthly upwards, while the main thing, the ray of Light from above downwards, which alone could bring animation and enlightenment, is lacking.[/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000] WesleyanA: Grail interpritations are many but the message from the grail is another thing on the link www.grailnet.org |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Hndholder(m): 12:17pm On Dec 16, 2005 |
Sure, the author of this threand is taking about the Grail message. The Grail Message is a special Work, which clearly answers all the unsolved problems of human existence. The vast knowledge mediated in its pages leads the earnestly-seeking reader, who weighs and examines objectively, out of the present-day confusion and distortion, to clear recognitions. The Grail Message commands attention by its forceful language, by the clarity of its thoughts and by the setting right of distorted concepts, unmistakably and sometimes severely but irrefutably explained. The laws in which the entire Creation came into being and exists are plainly set forth, the World Happening is interpreted in its true significance, and man's responsibility before God and his fellow man is revealed and explained. Thus to him who opens himself to these recognitions is restored the indestructible inner security of his personality. For the seeking human being, the 168 lectures of this Work deal with all essential questions and spheres of life: Whoever bears the desire for it living within him, and is willing to make the effort, will be helped to fulfilment by the work "In the Light of Truth", The Grail Message of Abd-ru-shin. The Author writes: “...I wish to fill the gaps which have so far remained unanswered in the souls of men, and which never leave any serious thinker in peace, if he honestly seeks the Truth.” “With my Message I now open the Book of Creation for you! The Message clearly shows you the Language of God in Creation, which you must learn to understand so that you can make it your own.” The Author recommends that the lectures of the Grail Message be read in sequence, and not picked out individually, seeking to judge the Work in this way. The knowledge of the Grail Message cannot be grasped by glancing through it. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by pilgrim1(f): 10:11pm On Aug 01, 2007 |
Make una help me here: -- after creation and all that, what about redemption in Christ? |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Hndholder(m): 8:24am On Aug 02, 2007 |
pilgrim.1: For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully , ( I Corinthians 13: 9 - 12 ). http://www.cinemaseekers.com/Christ/reincarnation.html |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Hndholder(m): 8:32am On Aug 02, 2007 |
www.grailpublishers.com/author.htm --------- www.grailnet.org SALVATION! REDEMPTION! SALVATION! Redemption! How often already have human beings pictured these words wrongly to themselves, when they wanted to see in them unconditional help from the Light, to the exclusion of the All-Holy Justice! This implies a total error, that is already evident today in everything devised by the human mind. They want to make God into their helpful slave, who is only to be considered in connection with the welfare of insignificant earthen. Just ask yourselves for once about this, throw light on your thoughts without extenuation, delve into them clearly and objectively, then you will have to confess that your whole thinking has never been attuned other than to the idea that, upon your petitions, God should always serve and help you to fulfil your wishes. Of course you do not speak of it in terms that would be more according to the nature of your being, but as always give another name to your false volition, putting on little cloaks of deceptive humility, and only speaking of "granting" instead of serving; yet this does not alter the fact that your whole conduct, even when praying, is dominated by evil and cannot be pleasing to God! At last be honest with yourselves for once, and tremble at the recognition of how you have hitherto always stood before your God, stubborn, arrogant and discontented, hypocritical because of your superficiality, thinking of Him only in misery and distress so that He may help you out of the consequences of your actions; but you have never asked beforehand whether your decisions really were according to His Will. What are you men before the Omnipotence and Sublimely of the Lord, Whom you would have rule over you just as it pleases you! With what presumption you would like to enforce here on earth those laws that come from your narrow way of thinking, and that are not in harmony with the Divine Laws that He placed in Creation. You so often exercise your wrong volition, with a cunning and evil-mindedness that is inexcusable before God, harming your neighbours thereby to gain advantages for yourselves, either in money or goods, or to acquire a reputation with those for whom you do it. All this will now fall heavily upon you with the weight of a mountain; for nothing of all your wrong-doing could be cancelled in the Law of Reciprocal Action as having been redeemed, unless you freed yourselves through the change in your volition for what is good. The barriers that still hold back the collapse of the piled-up mass of reprisals are torn away! Everything rolls down irresistibly on earthly humanely, who would like to continue in spiritual indolence and arrogance in order to enforce their will, which has long since strayed far from the Will of God. This, however, is the end for the dominion of all Darkness on earth! It will collapse, and drag down all those human beings who have sided with it. But in the midst of the thundering roar of the collapse, the Word rings out! Victoriously It resounds through the lands, so that those who honestly strive for It may still save themselves. The condition implied is that each one must himself strive to recognise the Word of the Lord as salvation! If he doubts and allows this last opportunely to pass without making use of it with all his strength, he will never again be in this position, and the moment for him to find redemption is forever lost. Salvation, redemption, will only come to him in the Word, Which he must absorb, so that by living in accordance with It he may release himself from the bonds that hold him down through misunderstanding and distorting the true concepts. You have been most seriously poisoned and endangered by the false representation of the Love of God, which you sought to divest of all vigour, all power and clarity, enveloping it instead in an unhealthy weakness and harmful indulgence, which was bound to plunge you all together into spiritual indolence and thus into ruin. Beware of the fatal distortion of the concept of the Holy Love of God! You therewith fall into a slumber which at first is pleasant, but which becomes the sleep of death. True love does not lie in indulgence, and in a kindness that is expected to forgive everything. This is wrong, and acts like a drug that only lulls the spirits into lassitude and weakness, finally bringing on complete paralysis and enforcing eternal death, since an awakening at the right time is then impossible. Only the severe coolness of Divine Purity can penetrate the lassitude, and pave the way for the true Love that leads to your spirits. Purity is severe, It knows neither extenuation nor excuse. Therefore It will probably appear ruthless to many a person who only too willingly tries to deceive himself. But actually It only hurts where something is not in order. Weakness brings harm to yourselves as well as to those whom you imagine you are pleasing by it. In time you will be judged by a Higher One with the kind of justice that has become strange to you for a long time through yourselves, for you have withdrawn from it. It is the Divine justice, unchangeable from eternity to eternity, and independent of the opinions of men, free of their partiality, of their hate and their malice, their power. It is Almighty, for it is of God! Unless you devote all your strength to severing yourselves from the old, you will not learn to comprehend this justice either. But you will then likewise not be able to become new within! And only the new man, who stands in the Word of Life and strives towards the Light, will receive the help that he needs to pass through the judgment of God. Man must help himself through the Word, which shows him the ways he must follow! Only thus can he find redemption, otherwise it will not fall to his lot! He must grow strong in the battle that he wages for himself, or he must perish in it! Awake, and present a fighting front to all Darkness, then you will also be given strength to help you. Weaklings, however, will lose even what strength they still possess, because they do not know how to use it properly. The little they have will thereby be taken away from them because, according to the Law of Attraction of Homogeneous Species, it flows to those who use this strength with zeal and in the right manner. Thus an ancient promise is fulfilled. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Nobody: 8:51am On Aug 02, 2007 |
Hnd-holder: tell them, let them all know |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Hndholder(m): 9:17am On Aug 02, 2007 |
Whatever they want to know If they ask it shall be given. When they seek they shall find in the grail message. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by pilgrim1(f): 9:18am On Aug 02, 2007 |
@Hnd-holder, Hnd-holder: I visited the weblink you offered, but it's an absurd rendering of 1 Cor. 13:9 that the author of your article tried to offer. He makes it read this way: "For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect" That is a misleading concept, for the verse does not mean to convey the idea that what we have as prophecies in the Bible is "imperfect". Rather, the verse simply states this: "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part." That which is "imperfect" only tends to be 'flawed' and 'defective' - and that was never suggested by that verse at all. However, to know and prophecy 'in part' [ἐκ μέρος - ek meros] leads to parts that form 'a collective whole'. Those 'parts' in themselves are not 'imperfect' (flawed or defective). It is for that very reason that the apostle goes on to give the subsequent verses: "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." Prophecy is not 'imperfect' (flawed or defective); and that is why it is important to note the allegory that the apostle makes between that which appertains to 'a child' and that which belongs to 'a man'. The milk first, before the meat - 1 Cor. 3:2. The concept runs all through Scripture, and is not perculiar to Pauline epistles. Turn over to Isaiah the prophet where we read the following in ch. 28:10: "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little". No one may have understand the whole concept of salvation and redemption before Christ came - and even the apostle Peter makes that fact boldly in his epistle (1 Pet. 1:10-12): "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into." When someone tries to snatch concepts from the Bible, twist it in their own flawed premises, and then offer a substitute for the clear message of salvation and redemption which we have in Christ, we have a responsibility to take them back to the true meaning of what we have in Scripture. No quarrels about it; but to me it is often a sign of self-defeat and restlessness of soul to read Grail Messengers disparaging others just to sell their own concepts: Of course you do not speak of it in terms that would be more according to the nature of your being, but as always give another name to your false volition, putting on little cloaks of deceptive humility, and only speaking of "granting" instead of serving; yet this does not alter the fact that your whole conduct, even when praying, is dominated by evil and cannot be pleasing to God! I would simply say that the highlighted notes are the very same things I find in the Grail Message - the author (and all his ministers that I have read to date) have cleverly used other terms ('you do not speak of it in terms that would be more according to the nature of your being'), given their concepts "another name", put on false volition, and peppered their misconceptions about salvation and redemption with their deceptive humility. That is why I've often challenged the idea that if the Grail Message is 'perfect' in itself, why the restlessness of spirit among those who try to pretend a "crossbearer" badge in order to disparage others so they could market their own false volition with a pretended humility for a peace that they themselves do not have, nor can their apprentices elucidate in simple terms? The crass of these messengers is obvious to any simple enquirer - we do not have to be scholars even in Greek to observe that the authors of the Grail Message are themselves below their pretended scholarship. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by pilgrim1(f): 9:27am On Aug 02, 2007 |
Hnd-holder: You do not use pretended scholarship to twist other writs to say what they do not - and then market your own false volition. That is my simple message to those who call themselves "crossbearers" but have not the slightest clue about the message of the Cross. It is like speaking in terms of the Light as presented in the Bible (John 8:12), and yet bearing Darkness instead! Jesus warned about such with these words: Matt. 6:23 -- 'But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!' I have no problem with what anyone wants to call themselves. But where they pretend to be taking their concepts from the Bible in order to sell a "light" that is totally absurd and in stack contrast to what we find in Scripture, we need to ask serious questions and use our God-given intelligences. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by pilgrim1(f): 9:34am On Aug 02, 2007 |
One more thing I should add to the issue of the deceptive humility of the messengers of Grail: Do you guys not recognize the cliché adverts that is often pretended as a substitute for intelligent reflection? How many times do Christians alarm others with "as long as you seek with sincerity"? It is taken for granted that any sincere reader of the Bible will find the life-changing Grace of God in its pages. But the moment anyone wants to enquire about the Grail Message, all kinds of alarming adverts are offered to dull and warp the intelligences of the seeker so that their minds are already paled to grease it for mr Shin. If the message is actually 'Light', it should be as peaceful in modicum and presentation as it claims. There's nothing exceptional in the Grail Message that speaks of 'Light' - not even the backbrain and frontal lobes that the apprentices have not been able to simply enunciate. Those who seek to pass a message of 'Light' should do so without the unnecessary disparagements they serve as the prolegomena of their own false volitions. I asked for a simple question of how the Grail author treats the question of REDEMPTION - and the first thing I get to read is his wangling? Not good enough. Try something else. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Hndholder(m): 9:46am On Aug 02, 2007 |
You speak as if you have personal things to settle with a particular crossbearer. You need not throw the baby with its bathing water. You have your free will to read or leave the message but it is a fact of life. I wonder what versions of the Bible you have. If you ever know how Bible was compiled or you ever know the meaning of Bible. "Before God only the creature as such exists! And as the individual creature is within himself, so and not otherwise will he be valued in Creation and before God! "Nor does it count whether a human creature is a Catholic or Protestant, or whether he belongs to any particular denomination; he is valued solely as a human being in himself. His thoughts, his volition and his actions are what is decisive before the Holy Laws of God!" Abd-ru-shin FOR YOUR GUIDANCE! THE BANDAGE falls, and belief becomes conviction. Liberation and redemption lie only in conviction! I am addressing earnest seekers only. They must be able and willing to examine this matter objectively! Religious fanatics and irresponsible enthusiasts may hold aloof, for they are detrimental to the Truth. As for the malevolent and prejudiced, they shall find their sentence in the very words. The Message will strike only those who still carry within them a spark of truth, and the yearning to be true human beings. To all such it will become the shining light and staff. It will lead them unswervingly out of all the chaos of the present-day confusion. The following Word does not bring a new religion, but is intended as the torch to help all serious listeners or readers find the right path, which leads them to the longed-for height. Only he who bestirs himself can advance spiritually. The fool who uses extraneous aids for this, in the form of the ready-made opinions of others, only walks his path as if on crutches, while ignoring his own healthy limbs. But the moment he boldly uses all the abilities which lie dormant within him awaiting his call, to help in his ascent, he is employing the talent entrusted to him in accordance with his Creator's Will, and will easily overcome all obstacles that seek to divert him. Therefore awake! Genuine faith lies only in conviction, and conviction comes solely through an inflexible weighing and examining! See that you are truly alive in the wonderful Creation of your God! Abd-ru-shin |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by pilgrim1(f): 10:05am On Aug 02, 2007 |
My dear Hnd-holder, I have 'a lot' of Grail Message friends - a 'lot of' as in, I've not met 90% of them face to face. However, I hold good rapport with those I know personally (and they're 'nice' fellows, I must admit). No, I do not have any scores to settle with any 'crossbearers' - none at all. When it comes to reasoning soundly, I seek only answers - not misleading orations that tend to talk down others in order to sell their own concepts; and yet these same people will quote from the Bible once and again while scurrying away from its divine Message. Several times, I try to hold intelligent conversations with Grail Messengers. It's quite sad that most of the simple questions I ask them do not find any intelligent answers from them. And I'm not kidding. Instead, I've narrowed my questions at the moment to the one issue of REDEMPTION - which I only find statements made about them in the religion of Abd-ru-shin, but nothing to explicate it at all. If any Grail Messenger wants to hold a discussion with me about Creation, they are very welcome - they could hold all 3 Vols of Abd-ru-Shin's book as well as the Bible. I only ask two things of them: be willing to be honest enough without word-twists be open enough to deal with issues as they appear That's all I offer. The Creation is simply not enough to reach my deepest longing. Most religions dwell on that - and you can ask the Muslims as well. The one question I'm seeking answers to is REDEMPTION. I'd not like for anyone to lay their intelligence aside to just drink in any concepts that presents issues away from the core concerns of my enquiry. That answer is what is hugely vacant in all I've perused so far from the articles and books of the religion of Abd-ru-shin. I apologise if you read me strongly earlier. But I don't easily fall for that rascally games of authors disparaging others in order to catch the attention of gullible audience. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Nobody: 12:16pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
pilgrim.1: my dear pilgrim, if you dont understand creation in its truest sense you can never understand what redemption simply mean. Creation in its truest sense has never been revealed to mankind but can only be found in the GRAIL MESSAGE. Let me just take you along with me according to my personal understanding of the message. In creation there're many laws governing it, ranging from law of mation, law of circle, law of number e.t.c. But all these laws have their foundation in the three basic-laws governing creation and they are 1. LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION this is somethimes known as law of sowing and reaping, or law of kharma.And it states that one must reap whatever he's sown.You cannot sow rye and reap maize, nor potato and reap beans, its simply never possbile. There're three ways we can sow seeds in creation, a. By Words b. By Deeds c. By thoughts[/b]its just that degree of retribution varies, that i cant discuss further on this thread. its going to take a life-time to do that. [b]2. LAW OF ATTRACTION OF HOMOGENEOUS SPECIES this is sometimes understood as 'birds of same feather flock together, like father like son' e.t.c, likes people tends to find and understand eachother better than the opposite. And it is only on earth that the pysical manifestation is not really clear, whereby you will find both good and bad living side-by-side, but apart from this earth it is never possble. And thats why you will enjoy your time spent with people who have same perspective as you do. Just for an example, if you have been living in an area for quite some number of years and someone who's a robber lives there with you,and if he's never been arrested you will never know he is a robber.But just let a fellow robber moves into that same area, i give you just a matter of days he'll surely find that robber you have been living with all this while. 3. LAW OF SPIRITUAL GRAVITATION whatever that is heavy must surely sinks, and what that is light will surely rise. You must have felt this experience in your soul before, so there's no need for myself to explain more on it. Once the soul leaves the body at physical death, if the soul is surrounded with lightness, he'll surely rise to the light regions but if the so many propensities attach themselves to the soul it makes it dark and heavy, and this makes the soul to sink further to the region of darkness and damnation. So my dear pilgrim, a perfect understanding of the working of these laws (you must not necessary be a cross-bearer to understand it) has already redeemed you, nothing else. Jesus christ said, , it is only those who do the will of my father that will enter into the kingdom of the CREATOR, he was talking about those who understand these laws in its truest sense and who live accordingly. So dear pilgrim, i wish you all the best. REDEMPTION LIES SOLELY IN THE UNDERSTANDING AND LIVING ACCORDINGLY TO THE LAWS OF CRAETION WHICH EMANATES FROM GOD THE FATHER HIMSELF 1 Like |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Hndholder(m): 12:28pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
Thank you for the effort. In your own opinion what do you expect redemption to be?, Killing of Christ and his blood? We do not like trading words but help people to find the truth themselves. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Hndholder(m): 12:36pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
WHAT MUST A MAN DO TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN? ONE is often approached with this question, but it would be wrong to reply with a definite rule and to say "Do this" and "Do that"! That is not showing the way! It would be completely devoid of life, and for this reason nothing living, such as is absolutely necessary for soaring upwards, can arise from it, for life alone contains the key necessary for ascent! If now I say "Do this and that, and don't do the other," I am only giving weak, external crutches on which no one can walk properly and independently, for these crutches do not at the same time help him to "see"! And yet he must see the "way" clearly before him, otherwise the crutches are of no use to him! Such a person would only hobble about aimlessly, like a blind man on a road he does not know. No, that is not the right thing, and would once more only lead to another dogma, which would hinder and delay every ascent! Let man consider: If he wishes to enter the Realm of the Spirit he must naturally journey there! He must walk there - it does not come to him! The Spiritual Realm lies at the summit of Creation, indeed it is the highest point itself! The human spirit, however, is still in the nether regions of the World of Gross Matter. Therefore it will probably be clear to everyone that he must first wander from these nether regions to the longed-for height in order to reach the goal! In order not to lose his way it is imperative that he should have a thorough knowledge of the whole distance he has to traverse! Not only the way itself, but also everything he may meet en route, the dangers which threaten him, and the help he can count upon! Since the road lies entirely within Creation, in fact is Creation, the wanderer who journeys towards the Spiritual Realm must become absolutely familiar beforehand with the Creation which leads him there. For he needs must pass through it, otherwise he will not reach his goal! Up till now there has been no man able to give such a description of Creation as it is necessary to absorb in order to ascend. In other words, there was no one who could make the way to the Grail Castle, the summit of Creation, visible and distinct. It is the way to the Castle which stands as the Temple of the Almighty in the Spiritual Realm, where alone pure worship takes place. This is not only meant allegorically, but it exists in all reality! The Message of the Son of God pointed out the way once before. But in his eagerness to show how clever he was, man interpreted it wrongly in many respects and consequently misplaced the signposts, thereby misleading the human spirit and preventing it from rising! [b]Now, however, the hour has arrived in which every human spirit must decide for itself, whether it is to be "yes" or "no", day or night, ascent to the Luminous Heights or descent, finally and irrevocably, without any further possibility for it to reconsider! For this reason another Message from the Luminous Castle has now been given. This Message puts the misplaced signposts back into their proper places, so that the right road may be recognised by all serious seekers! Happy are all those who adjust themselves to this Message with an open mind and a free heart! They will find in it all they must know of Creation, and see all the rungs which their spirit must use on its ladder of ascent in order to enter into the Spiritual Realm, Paradise! Each individual will find in it what he needs for his climb towards the Light with the abilities he possesses! That alone brings life, freedom for ascent, and development of the abilities necessary for each individual, as against the uniform yoke of a fixed dogma which makes him a slave without a will of his own, suppresses all independent development, and thereby not only hinders but completely destroys the possibility of ascent for many! The man who knows Creation in all its lawful activity will soon comprehend the sublime Will of God in it. If he adjusts himself to it in the right manner Creation, and also the way itself, will serve him only for a joyful ascent, because then he also stands correctly in the Will of God. His way and his life must therewith be right! It is not the attitude of a canting devotee, writhing on his knees with eyes upturned in contrite prayer, but prayer made a living reality in fresh, pure-minded and joyful activity! It is not begging and whining to have the way pointed out, but recognising it with a thankful upward glance to the Creator and travelling upon it cheerfully! Thus a life which can be described as devoted to God is quite different from what has been presumed hitherto! It will be much more free and beautiful! It means standing aright in Creation as is willed by your Creator through His Creation, in which (metaphorically speaking) one grasps the hand of God which He thereby stretches out to mankind! Therefore I call out once more: Take all these things as factual, as real, and no longer regard them as figurative! Then you yourselves will become living realities instead of the lifeless shadows you now are! Learn to understand Creation aright in its laws![/b] Therein lies the way upward to the Light! |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Nobody: 12:47pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
Thank you my fellow brother of the cross of truth |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by mnwankwo(m): 1:25pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
I wonder what is the aim of crossbearers who posted and are commenting on the subject. If their aim is to spread the Grail Message, then they have no conception of what the Grail Message is all about. In one post, the matter have degenerated to match making and searching for a partner. You do not bring awareness of the Grail Message to other people by disparaging their own beliefs or by disputing with them the truth or otherwise of the Bible. Those who are true servants of God donot force their opinions on others of different views. Those who are absolutely convinced about the bible should be encouraged to stick to it. Those who are convinced about the Koran or any other sacred writing should also be encouraged to stick to it. As we exercise our God given free will, we will undergo experiences that will open our eyes and ears to the revealations of God. Paul was not converted because the christians were teaching him about Jesus, indeed he murdered several of them. However when he underwent a deep spritiual experience on his way to Damascus, his eyes and ears were opened and he came to the recognition of Jesus. By their works ye shall know them! 1 Like |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Nobody: 1:35pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
m_nwankwo: if you know better ways we crossbearers should do let us know or keep it to yourself. am never ashame to talk about the message and the message speaks for itself. so what is the point you getting at? spread the light wherever you are, whether it is accepted or not is none of my concern, and to the issue of matchmaking whats that suppose to mean, bros? Where do you belong? Open up if you are proud of what you do |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Hndholder(m): 1:55pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
@m_nwankwo Please give us the post thread, I would want to look for birds of the same colour there. You must have read the BIBLE or KORAN verywell for you to understand the message. If m_nwankwo is a cross bearer he should let us know. We have waited for too long and we are now being called names we are not. It is better to say the truth than to run away from it. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by pilgrim1(f): 1:57pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
Ahem! Gentlemen. . . Hnd-holder: I'll share a few as I go through what is offered from the Grail disciples (ffor want of an appropriate description). m_nwankwo: I'm sorry - I deeply apologise. I started the wahala, and I tender my unreserved apology. It was my way of trying to ease off the seeming disaffection in the other thread. But when I went through and found this other thread, I thought it might be cool to progress the discussion here, since I've already only succeeded in helping us rub minds as friends in the previous one. I apologise again, no vex. m_nwankwo: That's one of the concerns I'm trying to bring to our attention - but I also have failed to communicate! So, I apologise again O. . . so we can talk. Cheers all. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by pilgrim1(f): 1:58pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
Now, . . . dear enitan2002, Thank you for taking the time to share with me on those points. Actually, as I said earlier, I've seen a lot said about CREATION in the Grail Message (even though I think certain strains in it are quite convoluted). However, my concerns have been more about REDEMPTION rather than creation and its supposed laws. You offered me more about the same things bordering on creation that I've already read; and only tersely offered a line in at the end about redemption, even though you failed to explicate it any further than merely stating it. So, let's see if that line of assertion can hold true when examined carefully from the Bible itself: Creation in its truest sense has never been revealed to mankind but can only be found in the GRAIL MESSAGE. What Laws of Creation did you try to explicate? Here they are - and we should simply ask ourselves if these thoughts are vacant from the Bible itself: 1. 1. LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION Now let's see if such concepts were never offered in the Bible. Certainly, "reaping and sowing" are given in the Bible in precisely the way you've worded it: Galatians 6:7 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." And that thought is not perculiar to just the New Testament (NT) - for we find the same thing expressed in the OT in many instances. Just one from Job: Job 4:8 "Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same." Prov. 11:5 -- "The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way: but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness." We don't call it the law of 'karma'; but what you think can only be found in the "Grail Message" was already in the Bible ages before Abd-ru-Shin was born. The problem is that so many people just drink in whatever claims are given in his books without having the discpline to check out whether or not he was presenting new revelations and insights that cannot be found in clear terms in the Bible already. The second part of your summation above (You cannot sow rye and reap maize, nor potato and reap beans) is also found in the Bible: Luke 6:44 "For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes." The interesting thing is that such divine wisdom is applied to human relationships and transactions. One cannot expect to do evil and reap the benefits of righteousness in the long run - as we read in so many axiomatic declarations in the Bible: Prov. 22:8 - "He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail." However, the focal point of "reaping and sowing" in the long run can be expressed in just two lines of Scripture (at least, for me): -- (a) Rom. 2:6-11 -- GOD "will render to every man according to his deeds" - whether good or bad (b) Gal 6:8 -- "For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting." That's the first one cleared. Whether we sow in words, deeds, or thoughts, GOD will ultimately render to everyone according to their various deservings. So, what you might have thought had to wait until the "Grail Message" was published, were already in the Bible ages before! ------------------------- 2. 2. LAW OF ATTRACTION OF HOMOGENEOUS SPECIES Rather than go through elaborate enunciations, I'd rather give the texts in the Bible to show the same premise that the "Grail Message" was not at all bringing out fresh revelations or insight. As to the supposed second Law of "attraction of homogenous species", consider the following: Amo 3:3 -- "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" Deut. 22:10 -- "Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together." 1 Cor. 15:33 -- "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners." Again, the application is simply that we be careful to seek out godly influences in our relationships, as well as aim to influence others with good and edifying things. In the long run, godly and ungodly people do not stand in the same group: Psa. 1:5 -- "Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous." ------------------------- 3. 3. LAW OF SPIRITUAL GRAVITATION When, if that's the term you choose to go by, it's not a strange phenomenon - for it's long been attested to in the Bible ages before Abd-ru-Shin came up with the "Grail Message". Rather than argue for the 'weight' and 'lightness' of a soul (which to me would not carry any conviction), the Bible simply and convincingly demonstrates that wickedness is a question of the heart as much as righteousness affects the heart of man: Psa. 58:2 -- "Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth." The end point of this is that wickedness does not deliver any soul - no matter how "light" or "heavy" are the matters of that soul: Prov. 14:32 -- "The wicked is driven away in his wickedness: but the righteous hath hope in his death." Which brings about the question of complete deliverance from all that burdens the soul - the question of REDEMPTION! Without redemption, living by the "laws of creation", karma, etc. is simply going to be insufficient to meet the deepest longing of the heart. God deals with the heart of man, not just with the brain. And if any man is going to find that redeeming blessing for a truly satisfying HOPE beyond death, he/she should look to the One who has demonstrated that He alone has both the power to defeat death and deliver those who are unable to deliver themselves from death! His name is Jesus Christ - and we all know that. The problem is that so many are looking away from the Redemption He alone offers and trying to trust something else! Reedemption is both costlier than the price one pays reading a whole library, as well as has eternal value: Psa. 49:8 -- "For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever" That price has been paid already; and those who recognize God as Father can only do so by seeking to know the true value of REDEMPTION beyond merely "the laws of Creation"! Mere academic scholarship (as seems to be suggested with all the talk about frontal lobes and backbrain) is not going to bring any soul into the reality of Christ's redemptive power. Until the heart is willing to come through before God and receive freely, it might as well be stated that such a soul cannot know the value of what is meant in the following words: "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24). Redemption goes beyond merely the Laws of Creation. That is why I still invite a discussion with anyone from the Grail Messaage about what they suppose may not have been revealed already in the Bible. Creation is revealed there - and more than that, true Redemption is not only spoken of, but well explicated in the Bible as well. Regards. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Hndholder(m): 2:15pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
Open up then we can know the line of your thinking on redemption. Be born a new? yes the message spoke about it. The message spoke about it that the bible is a great book. The message explain the gaps. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Nobody: 2:21pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
pilgrim.1: then what else are you looking for? i can see you seem satisfied with what you have, i can tell you that no other crossbearers can say what i've just said concerning laws of creation in conjuction with redemption. Do you know m_nwakwo was talking about You & I when he mentioned something about match-making stuff? Well whatever you believe in, i still find you intresting, just continue with the good ways and good things will surely be yours, nothing more. |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by mnwankwo(m): 2:32pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
Pilgrim, Why are you still searching for what the Grail Message says about redemption or disputing the interpretation of the Grail Message offered by those that advertize themselves as crossbearers. Your writings seem to suggest that you are certain about redemption as explained in the bible. Keep to it. I do not see any point searching for something you believe you have found already. You search for other views when you have some doubt about your own. In this case you seem to have no doubt. Each individual should freely walk the path he is conviced about. His experiences on that path will teach him at some point whether or not he is on the right track. 1 Like |
| Re: The Holy Grail? (Grail Message) by Nobody: 2:45pm On Aug 02, 2007 |
m_nwankwo: @ Hnd-holder, see me see wahala for this guy oo. Who are you referring to 'as those who advertised themselves', i can see you are one of those who thinks in superficiality form all becuse you've read the GRAIL MESSAGE. See, crossbearers or not, we all are still subjected to things all those who are not passes through, so that makes no difference. You better watch what you say, or i'll deal with you  @ pilgrims, like what i said earlier, just continue with your good deeds and the rewards will surely be falling on your laps when you least expected. Take care, my pilgrim |
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