There have been very wild questions on how morality can be derived without religion, this question though i find it shallow most times comes from a sincere mind and truly an attempt in dealing with that simplistic view of a human ethical wiring purely based on religious interface is vital.

Most people cannot distinguish between human morality and religion, they cannot understand the need for ethical behaviours without religious or external coercions but here is a simple truth human morality has no religious basis, as a matter of fact human morality precedes religious influences

Let me tell a tale of nature, a tale of the most simple of beings, a tale of humility and sacrificial oneness, a tale of enviable order, a tale of selflessness, a tale of the ants

One thing that the human ego has left us is Blind, Blind to the lives we deem lesser than our own, blind to the subtle lessons nature teaches in her ever eventful stage.

I want to tell a tale of the ants, a tale that can teach us what we so blindly cannot see except with a cracking whip of religious influence omniously on our back.

The ants live in holes virtually everywhere around us and each ant hole has a thriving society, A colony.

The colonies are divided into groups according to functions, all groups as important as the other.

Soldiers that protect the colony, queens, workers and many more but for our tale we will focus on the workers.

Every ant's action is gunned towards the good and continuation of the colony, remarkably the human society is a mutilated mimicry of the ant's society except that most human actions are towards "personal [selfish]" ends.

Ants had a well organized society millions of years before the first human crawled out of the caves.

So the ant workers, i have watched them on many occasions working as a single unit, they rarely leave an injured ant behind and there is almost certainly a remarkable care for both one another and the entire colony, they work for the good and continuation of their society.

Many might be wondering why i chose the ants, i wanted to use a life form as common to access as the every day human world, neglected, crude and primitive but still a better organizer than humans ever have been and with a very basic moral behaviour toward each other and their society devoid of the greed of "Afterlife" or the fear of a sinister torture chamber.

So now the question How are you moral without religion?

Human morality was never a religious construct - so how can a human not be moral outside religious influence?

-I doubt if any of us here need the Quran, Veda or the bible to tell us before we bring ourselves to love our parents.

-How many of us need religious coercions to love and care for our young?

So why have we so demeaned human moral and ethical positions to a pitiable shallow state that many cannot concieve "Goodness" without being threatened into it or promised a posthumous reward for it.

it is indeed shallow that many humans cannot see beyond the horizone of such sinister ideas to derive ethical behaviours towards others and the society at large.

A critical evaluation of the 'so called' moral codecs in these pravelent religious doctrines brings to light a bizarre and cruel aspect of 'authorative coercion and some times evil posed as good'.

We humans must break free from this shallow pool of 'selfish' drive to ethical lives and look inward towards our own basis - human morality and ethics have far better and profound basis like

-Love
-Empathy
-Sympathy
-Compassion
-pity
-Family
-Societal bonds
-concern for others and societal well being.

Personally i do not even believe that someone with compassion, empathy, love and is profoundly humane can believe such a bizarre evil disturbing concept as an eternal punishment let alone invoke it as a basis for human morality

There is a saying that "Good cannot come out of evil" how can we hope to achieve goodness through disturbing concepts aimed at our fears.

If you cannot find humane reasons to be good to others except only through religious influence or other external influences such as political ones, then you are operating on a shallow level of human behaviourial potentials.

As Albert Einstein once said "If we humans cannot be good to others unless for heaven or hell then we are a sorry lot indeed"

There also however i can pin point religion and politics has been of useful influence for human ethical shaping as well as many that can also be referred to as disturbing as well as sinister influence from these values.

I am not aiming at discouraging "A moral direction" through religious coercions, it has proved useful on many cases, i am only correcting the niave idea that human morality has a religious or supernatural foundation.

If you can only be good to others because of the promise of heaven or the threat of hell then it shows exactly how little you think of others.

Humanism should drive our ethical positions towards each other, we must derive geniune care and concern and not aim at arriving at selfish ends.

If there are God(s) it appeals to logic that there would appreciate geniune concern and empathy more than reluctant comformity through threat and reward themes.

To claim morality is a religious construct is as ridiculous as claiming that the Alphabets was invented by the English men. [there are in fact Greek]

Morality is neither Muslim, Christian or Hindu, it is a human thing and belongs to no ism, neither is it dependent on any book, doctrines, creed or supernatural for basis. It has a human basis.

As long as there are varying individuals living together on this cosmos of cruel "competitive existence" there must be both positive and negative behaviours in this boundless collision of fates but i think it doesn't take anything to be a nice person neither does it hurt to be less an asss_hole than most people are.

So just like the Ants in our tale, we can derive an ethical behaviour gunned towards personal and societal well being and continuation without the need of religious influence - it is necessary for our continuation.

By Johnydon22

Cc. LoJ, Seun, Dorox....

it's an open floor..... every idea is welcome

I wish everyone could read this

make i sit down here dey watch..
so educating

Thanks for addressing this, I planned to address the ludicrous rationale by most theists comments on here; basing morality on some has to be a religion inclination by weekend when am less busy, with this your post there would be no need.
Being moral and not despicable is quite personal and independent of religion, morals naturally differ man to man.
There are despicable atheist, and there are upright ones just as there are good and bad people, atheistical morals differ one atheist to the other, and there isn't a ethical standard dogma.
The way one is raised, the environment he/she grew up in, day in day out experiences, personal objectives, principles, modus operandi, parents, these factors and more define someone's morals, not religion, besides if the religious and theists play good because their religion demanded it of them, then they are being fake.

There are bad and gravely immoral Christians and Muslims, and their are good ones, religion has no say in a person's nature as far as i am concerned.

So long a write-up,

Who/what defines morality, to what set rule(s) is morality tailored to? Society/Science/Nature/individuals??

Really, what is morality?
No such thing exists as an absolute. Morality is a function of society. What is moral in some cultures is total taboo in other cultures.

Can religion create morality? Absolutely YES!
Christians believe themselves to be most moral and pride themselves above many other religions, yet cannot explain the morality in their God commanding the killing and wiping out of entire clans and tribes. Morality of slavery the bible supports.
What of islam? Oh very loafy set of people, self righteous and the true definition of being religious yet the religion is dented with what a modern age man will call immoral.

If religions were perfect, it won't be evolving to become more liberal as we are experiencing

dablazor:
Thanks for addressing this, I planned to address the ludicrous rationale by most theists comments on here; basing morality on some has to be a religion inclination by weekend when am less busy, with this your post there would be no need.
Being moral and not despicable is quite personal and independent of religion, morals naturally differ man to man.
There are despicable atheist, and there are upright ones just as there are good and bad people, atheistical morals differ one atheist to the other, and there isn't a ethical standard dogma.
The way one is raised, the environment he/she grew up in, day in day out experiences, personal objectives, principles, modus operandi, parents, these factors and more define someone's morals, not religion, besides if the religious and theists play good because their religion demanded it of them, then they are being fake.

There are bad and gravely immoral Christians and Muslims, and their are good ones, religion has no say in a person's nature as far as i am concerned.

Hmmmmm.....

Jonnydon22, is the society therefore responsible for the moderation of morality?

Does morality evolve?

opeaceo:
So long a write-up,

Who/what defines morality, to what set rule(s) is morality tailored to? Society/Science/Nature/individuals??

Morality is of human conception therefore is of human definition - That is why varying societies and civilizational timeline all have varying ideas on morality.

Example - If you literally live by the Biblical mosaic Laws in the 21st century, You'd be in Jail.

opeaceo:
So long a write-up,

Who/what defines morality, to what set rule(s) is morality tailored to? Society/Science/Nature/individuals??

Morality is really an individual thing, but humans are influenced by humans they feel are authority figures, so you learn morality of your society from childhood

kolawaxxy:
Jonnydon22, is the society therefore responsible for the moderation of morality?

Does morality evolve?

Yes Morality and ethics do evolve, because societies which defines these terms also evolve, needs evolve, expectations evolve... One look at the history of human civilization is enough to show this.

kolawaxxy:
Jonnydon22, is the society therefore responsible for the moderation of morality?

Does morality evolve?

Morality evolves. Take a look at history. Even the christian morals are evolving. Originally women have no authority in the church, but the case is different now else the church would seem to be anti women, so morality is evolving.

johnydon22:


Yes Morality and ethics do evolve, because societies which defines these terms also evolve, needs evolve, expectations evolve... One look at the history of human civilization is enough to show this.

Exactly.

johnydon22:


Morality is of human conception therefore is of humab definition - That is why varying societies and civilizational timeline all have varying ideas on morality.

Example - If you literally live by the Biblical mosaic Laws in the 21st century, You'd be in Jail.

Basically, you're implying morality evolves and it does differ from place to place.

Secondly, from your initial write up, IMO, you're saying morality is tailored according to nature and whatever it throws at us??

johnydon22:


Yes Morality and ethics do evolve, because societies which defines these terms also evolve, needs evolve, expectations evolve... One look at the history of human civilization is enough to show this.

Owkey, dowkey, I understand where you're coming from.

Thanks for this insightic thread @ johnydon22. I really wish other theists will see the absolute reason in this write-up and stop being good for the sake of heavenly reward, though I do not believe in an infernal confine of eternal punishment. Being good is a matter of choice and not coercion and it should be taken as such. Though a theist, I really wish we could let people see reason to be good without imbuing morality with a comforting idea of heaven or as some theists would do, a blood curdling threat of hell. Nice write-up and good to read from you @ johnydon22

Well if religion is the basis for morality, then naija won't be one of d most corrupt country in d world. Nice write up.

opeaceo:


Basically, you're implying morality evolves and it does differ from place to place.

Secondly, from your initial write up, IMO, you're saying morality is tailored according to nature and whatever it throws at us??

Naturally there are unceasing causes and effects, catastrophic events leading to awe striking result, in this cosmic setting of uncharted chains of uncaring causalities there is nothing like "Good or evil" natures goes anyway, everywhere, unbound and limitless.

"Good and evil" is a concept derived by the mind and this in the human sense is basically proportional to the effect of a particular action on our well being..

My write up highlights few of the basis from whence humans can derive ethical and moral propulsion that is not necessarily sewn into religious influence.

So you probably misconcieved the write up

lordnicklaus:
Thanks for this insightic thread @ johnydon22. I really wish other theists will see the absolute reason in this write-up and stop being good for the sake of heavenly reward, though I do not believe in an infernal confine of eternal punishment. Being good is a matter of choice and not coercion and it should be taken as such. Though a theist, I really wish we could let people see reason to be good without imbuing morality with a comforting idea of heaven or as some theists would do, a blood curdling threat of hell. Nice write-up and good to read from you @ johnydon22

To me the application of such barbaric idea to coerce a mind into comforming to the directives of the authorities is in itself immoral.

Thank you Lordnicklaus, it's being quite long i wrote down an article here.

lordnicklaus:
Thanks for this insightic thread @ johnydon22. I really wish other theists will see the absolute reason in this write-up and stop being good for the sake of heavenly reward, though I do not believe in an infernal confine of eternal punishment. Being good is a matter of choice and not coercion and it should be taken as such. Though a theist, I really wish we could let people see reason to be good without imbuing morality with a comforting idea of heaven or as some theists would do, a blood curdling threat of hell. Nice write-up and good to read from you @ johnydon22

In my humble opinion, you are one of the most rational theists I've seen. IMHO.

johnydon22:


Yes Morality and ethics do evolve, because societies which defines these terms also evolve, needs evolve, expectations evolve... One look at the history of human civilization is enough to show this.

If morality evolves, then it's safe to say that there is no absolute morality.

Cc Hardmirror

johnydon22:


To me the application of such barbaric idea to coerce a mind into comforming to the directives of the authorities is in itself immoral.

Thank you Lordnicklaus

You are welcome friend.

kolawaxxy:


If morality evolves, then it's safe to say that there is no absolute morality.

Cc Hardmirror

Almost certainly true - there is a subjective sense in every moral position...

Example - we will all frown at the idea of torturing children but at the same time many here would still torture their child with the aim of 'correction' believing that 'torturing a child' under such circumstance is right.

MrMarvelous:

In my humble opinion, you are one of the most rational theists I've seen. IMHO.

Thank you for the compliments.

Cc. lalasticlala

ValentineMary:

Morality actually evolve. Let us take south east Nigeria as a case study. About 200 years ago in that region, there was nothing wrong i. women being topless in fact that was the norm. But since the white man came our morality evolved and women started wearing tops. In fact we now see this as the moral standard but it was not always like thagt.

BTW nice write up Johnnydon22.

Ya, I was trying to make a point

kolawaxxy:


If morality evolves, then it's safe to say that there is no absolute morality.

Cc Hardmirror

Absolutely. Morality is really an individual thing. But as I said earlier, you can be influenced by authority, the law, religion, your parents, elders, etc in following a particular moral code.