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Islam And The Theory Of Evolution - Islam for Muslims (6) - Nairaland

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No Alcohol In Islam And The Flawed Knowledge About Its Benefit For The Heart / Differences Between Islam And Western Ideology / Theory Of Falseness Of Evolution (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tintingz(m): 11:32am On Feb 14, 2017
Empiree:
I know it is not. I don't have problem with it. Just like to avoid the subject. Few years was watching documentary on Animal Planets with a white dude. It was about monkeys and Apes. I played dumb and asked him, why do they look like this? . He said "that's the beginning of man" indicating he understands Adam was black
OK.



well opinions vary in this.
OK.



Maybe maybe not. But I never believed in Abiku myth. I see it more as stage play.
OK


never underestimate power of herbs grin
There are things harbs can't cure, HIV, Ebola, Cancer, disabilities etc. This are strong medical problems.


my intention here was to bring to attention of the brothers that love singing Quran and sunnah to answer where ibn kathir got it from since it's not documented in any of the Islamic primary sources. But they believe it just as much as i do cheesy
Lol.


Well, just like Quran speaks of Sahaba and wives of the prophet (saw) without mentioning them by name or without relating all their stories. Does that mean it is incomplete? . Your judgement is wrong here.
Ok
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tintingz(m): 11:54am On Feb 14, 2017
sino:

Apparently, you guys do not understand what you are reading, even from science! You are yet to answer my questions, then you want to quickly obfuscate your inadequacies by bringing up irrelevancies!
We have shown you proves about evolution to be a fact, you are yet to show us your prove of flying horse(unicorn, Pegasus) Mohammed (SA) rode to heaven, you're yet to show us how Satan laughs and how he enter people's mouth, you're yet to show us where Adam(AS) settled, his skin color, his bones(fossil). Please show us prove of your fairytale.

#FACT! Incest is never the cause of birth defect! if you disagree, bring your evidence
Shuooo! And this boda claim he studied science? grin

From scientific and psychology examinations, incest(inbreeding) of first degree relatives causes severe birth defect, disabilities, early death. I can show you like 10 articles on this. This is just one:

The researchers examined four studies (including the Czech research) on the effects of first degree incest on the health of the offspring. Forty percent of the children were born with either autosomal recessive disorders, congenital physical malformations, or severe intellectual deficits. And another 14 percent of them had mild mental disabilities. In short, the odds that a newborn child who is the product of brother-sister or father-daughter incest will suffer an early death, a severe birth defect or some mental deficiently approaches 50 percent.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest



#I do not understand why it is so difficult for you to accept that Allah (SWT) created Eve from Adam (AS), and I still wonder what you are trying to achieve with pushing the acceptance of the theory of evolution when it still has a lot of uncertainties...Is it to appeal to the atheist?! or what?!

Now read the following verses:

And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. (Q3:49 Sahih International)

By the way, that was Jesus (AS) talking there, did what take place in the above verse from the Qur'an suggest evolution in any way?! Was it not an immediate creation from clay?! How many years did it take for Jesus (AS) to create a bird from clay by the permission of Allah (SWT)?! O, it is Miracle!!! And the creation of the heavens and the earth is not?!

Secondly Allah (SWT) says further, when some Christians are confused and claim Jesus(AS) was divine,:

Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was. (Q3:59 Sahih International)

When clay became bird in an instant from a man (by the permission of Allah (SWT) ), why then are you now looking for evolution up and down?! undecided To prove what exactly?!

Secondly, Jesus (AS) did not have a father o! How do you use evolution to explain this?!
Oga show us where Adam and Eve settled, their (bones)fossil, their skin color and stop telling us some middle east folklore.
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by sino(m): 12:07pm On Feb 14, 2017
AbdelKabir:


lol, just watch how shaytaan will give them wahy(revelation) on this that you've brought. cheesy grin
grin grin grin
It shouldn't be surprising though, Allah (SWT) had said:

"Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them!" (Qur'an 31: 20)

The bold is very instructive!

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by sino(m): 12:21pm On Feb 14, 2017
tintingz:
We have shown you proves about evolution to be a fact, you are yet to show us your prove of flying horse(unicorn, Pegasus) Mohammed (SA) rode to heaven, you're yet to show us how Satan laughs and how he enter people's mouth, you're yet to show us where Adam(AS) settled, his skin color, his bones(fossil). Please show us prove of your fairytale.

Shuooo! And this boda claim he studied science? grin

From scientific and psychology examinations, incest(inbreeding) of first degree relatives causes severe birth defect, disabilities, early death. I can show you like 10 articles on this. This is just one:

The researchers examined four studies (including the Czech research) on the effects of first degree incest on the health of the offspring. Forty percent of the children were born with either autosomal recessive disorders, congenital physical malformations, or severe intellectual deficits. And another 14 percent of them had mild mental disabilities. In short, the odds that a newborn child who is the product of brother-sister or father-daughter incest will suffer an early death, a severe birth defect or some mental deficiently approaches 50 percent.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest

Sighs! This is how you get easily misled. For someone who rejects the Qur'an and the Hadith because he doesn't want to be ignorant, it seems you still need a lot to do to save you from the present ignorance you are swimming inside...

Causes of Birth Defect:

Birth defects can occur during any stage of pregnancy. Most birth defects occur in the first 3 months of pregnancy, when the organs of the baby are forming. This is a very important stage of development. However, some birth defects occur later in pregnancy. During the last six months of pregnancy, the tissues and organs continue to grow and develop.

For some birth defects, like fetal alcohol syndrome, we know the cause. But for most birth defects, we don’t know what causes them. For most birth defects, we think they are caused by a complex mix of factors. These factors include our genes (information inherited from our parents), our behaviors, and things in the environment. But, we don't fully understand how these factors might work together to cause birth defects.

While we still have more work to do, we have learned a lot about birth defects through past research. For example, some things might increase the chances of having a baby with a birth defect, such as:
•Smoking, drinking alcohol, or taking certain “street” drugs during pregnancy.
•Having certain medical conditions, such as being obese or having uncontrolled diabetes before and during pregnancy.
•Taking certain medications, such as isotretinoin (a drug used to treat severe acne).
Having someone in your family with a birth defect. To learn more about your risk of having a baby with a birth defect, you can talk with a clinical geneticist or a genetic counselor.
•Being an older mother, typically over the age of 34 years.

Having one or more of these risks doesn’t mean you’ll have a pregnancy affected by a birth defect. Also, women can have a baby born with a birth defect even when they don’t have any of these risks. It is important to talk to your doctor about what you can do to lower your risk.

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/facts.html

If you do not know, the above site is the United States of America's CDC site, before you think I am quoting from and Islamic or Religious website!

tintingz:

Oga show us where Adam and Eve settled, their (bones)fossil, their skin color and stop telling us some middle east folklore.
You do not believe in the Qur'an, you do not believe in the Prophet (SAW), my evidences are the Qur'an and the hadith, where I need to start from wouldn't be appropriate for this thread.
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tintingz(m): 1:00pm On Feb 14, 2017
sino:


Sighs! This is how you get easily misled. For someone who rejects the Qur'an and the Hadith because he doesn't want to be ignorant, it seems you still need a lot to do to save you from the present ignorance you are swimming inside...

Causes of Birth Defect:

Birth defects can occur during any stage of pregnancy. Most birth defects occur in the first 3 months of pregnancy, when the organs of the baby are forming. This is a very important stage of development. However, some birth defects occur later in pregnancy. During the last six months of pregnancy, the tissues and organs continue to grow and develop.

For some birth defects, like fetal alcohol syndrome, we know the cause. But for most birth defects, we don’t know what causes them. For most birth defects, we think they are caused by a complex mix of factors. These factors include our genes (information inherited from our parents), our behaviors, and things in the environment. But, we don't fully understand how these factors might work together to cause birth defects.

While we still have more work to do, we have learned a lot about birth defects through past research. For example, some things might increase the chances of having a baby with a birth defect, such as:
•Smoking, drinking alcohol, or taking certain “street” drugs during pregnancy.
•Having certain medical conditions, such as being obese or having uncontrolled diabetes before and during pregnancy.
•Taking certain medications, such as isotretinoin (a drug used to treat severe acne).
Having someone in your family with a birth defect. To learn more about your risk of having a baby with a birth defect, you can talk with a clinical geneticist or a genetic counselor.
•Being an older mother, typically over the age of 34 years.

Having one or more of these risks doesn’t mean you’ll have a pregnancy affected by a birth defect. Also, women can have a baby born with a birth defect even when they don’t have any of these risks. It is important to talk to your doctor about what you can do to lower your risk.

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/facts.html

If you do not know, the above site is the United States of America's CDC site, before you think I am quoting from and Islamic or Religious website!
Oga you quoted the causes of birth defects you forgot to quote how the family can have a defects in their gene or how it is pass from generation to generation.

Since relatives share a higher proportion of their genes than do unrelated people, it is more likely that related parents will both be carriers of the same recessive allele, and therefore their children are at a higher risk of inheriting an autosomal recessive genetic disorder. The extent to which the risk increases depends on the degree of genetic relationship between the parents; the risk is greater when the parents are close relatives and lower for relationships between more distant relatives, such as second cousins, though still greater than for the general population.[18]

Children of parent-child or sibling-sibling unions are at an increased risk compared to cousin-cousin unions.[19] Inbreeding may result in a greater than expected phenotypic expression of deleterious recessive alleles within a population.[20] As a result, first-generation inbred individuals are more likely to show physical and health defects


It continues:


Effect:

Inbreeding increases the chances of the expression of deleterious recessive alleles by increasing homozygosity and therefore has the potential to decrease the fitness of the offspring. With continuous inbreeding, genetic variation is lost and homozygosity is increased, enabling the expression of recessive deleterious alleles in homozygotes. The inbreeding coefficient, a term used to describe the degree of inbreeding in an individual, is an estimate of the percent of homozygous alleles in the overall genome.[49] The more biologically related the parents are, the greater the inbreeding coefficient (See Coefficient of Inbreeding), since their genomes have many similarities already. This overall homozygosity becomes an issue when there are deleterious recessive alleles in the gene pool of the family.[50] By pairing chromosomes of similar genomes, the chance for these recessive alleles to pair and become homozygous greatly increases, leading to offspring with autosomal recessive disorders.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding

This talk about how families can have defects in their genes, so Claiming Adam's children had sex with each other will be a damage to whole humanity, the first generation children will be full of defects children and early death.

Even in American incest is very illegal, it is even a taboo in both culture and religion.

You do not believe in the Qur'an, you do not believe in the Prophet (SAW), my evidences are the Qur'an and the hadith, where I need to start from wouldn't be appropriate for this thread.
I believe in Quran I believe in the Prophet(SA) but i dont believe in fairytales. Kapish?!
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tbaba1234: 3:17pm On Feb 14, 2017
tintingz:
Oga you quoted the causes of birth defects you forgot to quote how the family can have a defects in their gene or how it is pass from generation to generation.

Since relatives share a higher proportion of their genes than do unrelated people, it is more likely that related parents will both be carriers of the same recessive allele, and therefore their children are at a higher risk of inheriting an autosomal recessive genetic disorder. The extent to which the risk increases depends on the degree of genetic relationship between the parents; the risk is greater when the parents are close relatives and lower for relationships between more distant relatives, such as second cousins, though still greater than for the general population.[18]

Children of parent-child or sibling-sibling unions are at an increased risk compared to cousin-cousin unions.[19] Inbreeding may result in a greater than expected phenotypic expression of deleterious recessive alleles within a population.[20] As a result, first-generation inbred individuals are more likely to show physical and health defects


It continues:


Effect:

Inbreeding increases the chances of the expression of deleterious recessive alleles by increasing homozygosity and therefore has the potential to decrease the fitness of the offspring. With continuous inbreeding, genetic variation is lost and homozygosity is increased, enabling the expression of recessive deleterious alleles in homozygotes. The inbreeding coefficient, a term used to describe the degree of inbreeding in an individual, is an estimate of the percent of homozygous alleles in the overall genome.[49] The more biologically related the parents are, the greater the inbreeding coefficient (See Coefficient of Inbreeding), since their genomes have many similarities already. This overall homozygosity becomes an issue when there are deleterious recessive alleles in the gene pool of the family.[50] By pairing chromosomes of similar genomes, the chance for these recessive alleles to pair and become homozygous greatly increases, leading to offspring with autosomal recessive disorders.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding

This talk about how families can have defects in their genes, so Claiming Adam's children had sex with each other will be a damage to whole humanity, the first generation children will be full of defects children and early death.

Even in American incest is very illegal, it is even a taboo in both culture and religion.

I believe in Quran I believe in the Prophet(SA) but i dont believe in fairytales. Kapish?!

First of all, laws concerning incest in the United States vary according to jurisdiction. It is allowed in some states as long as the couple is of age. I know because I live in the US.

I think one of the biggest challenges is people who know a little about science but know nothing about the philosophy of science. There is no induction process that gives you 100% certainty. None.. So we make conclusions from the fossils we see today till another one shatters previous beliefs. The science of Evolution is an induction process and as such falls short of being a certainty.

Theologically, Islam has little conflict with evolution except when it comes to Man. In that case, we reject the narrative. I do not have to have an opinion of the other aspects.

As regards, flying on horses, you believe that a God made the complexity of the world from a single cell but can not believe, he would show his power in other ways? Unless, we have intellectual humility, knowledge is impossible.

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Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by sino(m): 4:12pm On Feb 14, 2017
tbaba1234:


First of all, laws concerning incest in the United States vary according to jurisdiction. It is allowed in some states as long as the couple is of age. I know because I live in the US.

I think one of the biggest challenges is people who know a little about science but know nothing about the philosophy of science. There is no induction process that gives you 100% certainty. None.. So we make conclusions from the fossils we see today till another one shatters previous beliefs. The science of Evolution is an induction process and as such falls short of being a certainty.

Theologically, Islam has little conflict with evolution except when it comes to Man. In that case, we reject the narrative. I do not have to have an opinion of the other aspects.

As regards, flying on horses, you believe that a God made the complexity of the world from a single cell but can not believe, he would show his power in other ways? Unless, we have intellectual humility, knowledge is impossible.



Jazakallahu khairan bro for your insight.
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tintingz(m): 5:26pm On Feb 14, 2017
tbaba1234:


First of all, laws concerning incest in the United States vary according to jurisdiction. It is allowed in some states as long as the couple is of age. I know because I live in the US.
OK, you live in U.S no dispute, and yes the incest in U.S vary but it is illegal and under punishable act it is only new Jersey that gives no punishment for incest above 18 and older and no information/reports on virgin island.

Generally in U.S incest is illegal in all states.

I think one of the biggest challenges is people who know a little about science but know nothing about the philosophy of science. There is no induction process that gives you 100% certainty. None.. So we make conclusions from the fossils we see today till another one shatters previous beliefs. The science of Evolution is an induction process and as such falls short of being a certainty.
No scientists claimed science to be 100% perfect as it is still progressing, likewise religion is not perfect has well as it has many gaps and unanswered questions, conflicts in opinions and practice.

Theologically, Islam has little conflict with evolution except when it comes to Man. In that case, we reject the narrative. I do not have to have an opinion of the other aspects.
So where did the first man settled, what's the color of the first man?

As regards, flying on horses, you believe that a God made the complexity of the world from a single cell but can not believe, he would show his power in other ways? Unless, we have intellectual humility, knowledge is impossible.

The Greek Gods and demi-gods rode on flying horse(unicorn, Pegasus), you will find flying horses in olympus. grin
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tbaba1234: 5:45pm On Feb 14, 2017
tintingz:
OK, you live in U.S no dispute, and yes the incest in U.S vary but it is illegal and under punishable act it is only new Jersey that gives no punishment for incest above 18 and older and no information/reports on virgin island.

Generally in U.S incest is illegal in all states.

No scientists claimed science to be 100% perfect as it is still progressing, likewise religion it is not perfect has well as it has many gaps and unanswered questions, conflicts in opinions and practice.

So where did the first man settled, what's the color of the first man?

The Greek Gods and demi-gods rode on flying horse(unicorn, Pegasus), you will find flying horses in olympus. grin

Not exactly correct, It is not only New Jersey... Some places do not criminalize s-exual acts but could criminalize marriage. Like Rhode Island. There are varying level of restrictions.

Flawed comparison. Islam is not based on induction. It is possible to reach certainty through evidence, testimony and deductive arguments. Once you get to a level of certainty, the other aspects are easy and there are no longer questions.

The location/composition of the first man is irrelevant in a theology argument concerned more with the guidance of people towards God.

1 Like

Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by AlBaqir(m): 5:53pm On Feb 14, 2017
sino:

Jazakallahu khairan bro for your insight.

Obviously you don't understand his point of view which is more "balance" than your own ignoramus comment. That says a lot with your "jazak'Allahu khairan" which is laughable.
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by Empiree: 5:57pm On Feb 14, 2017
tintingz:

There are things harbs can't cure, HIV, Ebola, Cancer, disabilities etc. This are strong medical problems.


Some of the vaccines to remedy conditions you mentioned above have natural herbs in them. I have witnessed herbs for cure of stoke.


tintingz:
you are yet to show us your prove of flying horse(unicorn, Pegasus) Mohammed (SA) rode to heaven,
So you dont believe this narration too?. Be careful bro. I dont blame you though. NEVER reject Islamic Spirituality


his bones(fossil).
Common now, long passed. Pharaoh's that was found was by Allah's Decree. Besides, Adam was a prophet. Allah would preserve his remains from useless scientists just as he preserves other prophets grin Remember back in the days we were told oyinbo people went to space to look for God?. They found nothing. Therefore, according to them, He doesn't exist. The only possible answer to that is when their oxygen runs out, God will manifest Himself cheesy


On a serious note, i respect your view but I just have to turn down some of them. Reason I should respect it is because Qur'an, as explained by a Nigerian scholar in the UK can be interpreted in many ways depending on how gifted you are. The Sheik said Qur'an can be explained by:

Quran itself

Hadith

History

Science

Philosophy

Intellect

Spirituality

Sahaba Etc.

And he said the best option is Qur'an explaining Quran which means if you reject Nabi's (SAW) ascension by Horse to Heavens, it has no effect on your salvation. But remember, history is very important. So i think we are witnessing emergence of Muslim scientists gradually to explain some of the verses of Quran in their own way. I believe without doubt that knowledge moves forward. There will continue to be discoveries.

It is all in the Quran already but Allah will make them known with TIME.


For instance, Nabi Adam (AS) could NEVER imagine wearing cloth. If he was here today, he would probably run away from us. We look strange to him. Same is true of Sahaba of Nabi Muhammad (SAW), they could not imagine us using computer and networking. Yet, Quran speaks of this to those who understand. I am yet to agree with you until Allah gives me knowledge to that effect. I am never gonna reject it 100% now. I can only reject scientific "facts" that clearly go against Quran. The issue of pre-Adamic humans you brought up, there is no Quranic backup for or against. Rather Allah said to Angels, "I know What You Know Not" That's open challenge. It brings about curiosity. If you discover something and you're convinced, always sign it off with 'wallahu ta'ala alam'.


Just my opinion
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by AlBaqir(m): 6:01pm On Feb 14, 2017
tbaba1234:



I think one of the biggest challenges is people who know a little about science but know nothing about the philosophy of science. There is no induction process that gives you 100% certainty. None.. So we make conclusions from the fossils we see today till another one shatters previous beliefs. The science of Evolution is an induction process and as such falls short of being a certainty.

Just like tintingz has said, no one has ever claim that science is 100% and a definite in its interpretation for e.g Quran. The onus however lies on many Muslim scholars to understand science point of view. Today Islam produces little or no scientist as before.

tbaba1234:
Theologically, Islam has little conflict with evolution except when it comes to Man. In that case, we reject the narrative. I do not have to have an opinion of the other aspects.


I think you should rather speak on basis of your own understanding or whatever school you represent rather than talking on behalf of Islam. There are lots of scholars and schools that never have any problem with evolution of man.
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by AlBaqir(m): 6:11pm On Feb 14, 2017
tintingz:
likewise religion is not perfect has well as it has many gaps and unanswered questions, conflicts in opinions and practice.


Islam is perfect bro. Quran especially. Its high time people should understand that its a book of ethical guidelines not science/technological book. It open the door wide open for man to explore heavens and the earth. And that is science and technology but under the guidelines of Quran esp when it comes to belief and morality.

# "Islam" will always have clashes with science via its followers different interpretation of Quran/hadith as against or support of science.

# To me, there is beauty in diversity. The moment a school or ideology try to force an interpretation and close the door of ijtihad, then we have great problem and that is not Islam but Muslim, the imperfect.

1 Like

Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by AlBaqir(m): 6:15pm On Feb 14, 2017
tbaba1234:



The location/composition of the first man is irrelevant in a theology argument concerned more with the guidance of people towards God.


# So, all the ahadith and shuyukh that demonized black, gave specific structure of Adam, evolution of Awa etc should be thrown into dust bin.
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tintingz(m): 6:20pm On Feb 14, 2017
Empiree:
Some of the vaccines to remedy conditions you mentioned above have natural herbs in them. I have witnessed herbs for cure of stoke.


So you dont believe this narration too?. Be careful bro. I dont blame you though. NEVER reject Islamic Spirituality


Common now, long passed. Pharaoh's that was found was by Allah's Decree. Besides, Adam was a prophet. Allah would preserve his remains from useless scientists just as he preserves other prophets grin Remember back in the days we were told oyinbo people went to space to look for God?. They found nothing. Therefore, according to them, He doesn't exist. The only possible answer to that is when their oxygen runs out, God will manifest Himself cheesy


On a serious note, i respect your view but I just have to turn down some of them. Reason I should respect it is because Qur'an, as explained by a Nigerian scholar in the UK can be interpreted in many ways depending on how gifted you are. The Sheik said Qur'an can be explained by:

Quran itself

Hadith

History

Science

Philosophy

Intellect

Spirituality

Sahaba Etc.

And he said the best option is Qur'an explaining Quran which means if you reject Nabi's (SAW) ascension by Horse to Heavens, it has no effect on your salvation. But remember, history is very important. So i think we are witnessing emergence of Muslim scientists gradually to explain some of the verses of Quran in their own way. I believe without doubt that knowledge moves forward. There will continue to be discoveries.

It is all in the Quran already but Allah will make them known with TIME.


For instance, Nabi Adam (AS) could NEVER imagine wearing cloth. If he was here today, he would probably run away from us. We look strange to him. Same is true of Sahaba of Nabi Muhammad (SAW), they could not imagine us using computer and networking. Yet, Quran speaks of this to those who understand. I am yet to agree with you until Allah gives me knowledge to that effect. I am never gonna reject it 100% now. I can only reject scientific "facts" that clearly go against Quran. The issue of pre-Adamic humans you brought up, there is no Quranic backup for or against. Rather Allah said to Angels, "I know What You Know Not" That's open challenge. It brings about curiosity. If you discover something and you're convinced, always sign it off with 'wallahu ta'ala alam'.


Just my opinion
Since it is your opinion, no comment, we're good bro. cool
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by Empiree: 6:21pm On Feb 14, 2017
AlBaqir:


Islam is perfect bro. Quran especially. Its high time people should understand that its a book of ethical guidelines not science/technological book. It open the door wide open for man to explore heavens and the earth. And that is science and technology but under the guidelines of Quran esp when it comes to belief and morality.

# "Islam" will always have clashes with science via its followers different interpretation of Quran/hadith as against or support of science.

# To me, there is beauty in diversity. The moment a school or ideology try to force an interpretation and close the door of ijtihad, then we have great problem and that is not Islam but Muslim, the imperfect.
Agreed

1 Like

Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by AlBaqir(m): 6:38pm On Feb 14, 2017
Empiree:


So you dont believe this narration too?. Be careful bro. I dont blame you though. NEVER reject Islamic Spirituality



# As far as belief is concern, there is no "follow-follow" in Islam, my and school of thought point of view. For example, you need to know God at least within your intellectual understanding. That is what is required of you at least. Following a shuyukh for example hook, line and sinker in his interpretation of God is not welcome by the Quran itself.

# The fact that he (and me anyway) do not belief in a kind of flying horse named al-buraq or whatever which is said to have carried Nabi to heavens doesn't mean we are kafir ("reject" in your word). Quran or super authentic ahadith never talked about it. So, it remains a tale by moonlight. The basics however is that Nabi went to the "heavens". How and with what? Quran silent on this. We can only imagine based on our modern knowledge of Jets, and Yoruba's Kanako, ofe (telepathy, if I get the meaning right) etc that perhaps there was a kind of means of transportation that took Nabi there.

# Among the Muslims, there are differences as to whether Nabi went to the heavens in " physical body + spirit" or just "in soul/spirit alone" or both.

# But we must ask, what is Heavens? Do we mean or imagine something above the cloud where we go upward?

# Like I used to say based on my believe, there are too much lies and fabrications in the books of ahadith from both schools.
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tintingz(m): 6:42pm On Feb 14, 2017
tbaba1234:


Not exactly correct, It is not only New Jersey... Some places do not criminalize s-exual acts but could criminalize marriage. Like Rhode Island. There are varying level of restrictions.
The question is, is incest legal or illegal in U.S?

Laws regarding incest in the United States
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest_in_the_United_States

The link shows the prohibition in each state.

Flawed comparison. Islam is not based on induction. It is possible to reach certainty through evidence, testimony and deductive arguments. Once you get to a level of certainty, the other aspects are easy and there are no longer questions.
I don't get you here.

Science itself is perfect it is the scientists that makes it not certainly due to inconclusive researches(theories) now compare that to Islam.

The location/composition of the first man is irrelevant in a theology argument concerned more with the guidance of people towards God.
Then the middle east Adam never existed. smiley

At least we know where obatala started his creation. wink
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tintingz(m): 6:46pm On Feb 14, 2017
AlBaqir:


Islam is perfect bro. Quran especially. Its high time people should understand that its a book of ethical guidelines not science/technological book. It open the door wide open for man to explore heavens and the earth. And that is science and technology but under the guidelines of Quran esp when it comes to belief and morality.

# "Islam" will always have clashes with science via its followers different interpretation of Quran/hadith as against or support of science.

# To me, there is beauty in diversity. The moment a school or ideology try to force an interpretation and close the door of ijtihad, then we have great problem and that is not Islam but Muslim, the imperfect.
The bolded is what I'm trying to say.

I concur anyways.
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tbaba1234: 6:56pm On Feb 14, 2017
tintingz:
The question is, is incest legal or illegal in U.S?

Laws regarding incest in the United States
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest_in_the_United_States

The link shows the prohibition in each state.

I don't get you here.

Science itself is perfect it is the scientists that makes it not certainly due to inconclusive researches now compare that to Islam.

Then the middle east Adam never existed. smiley

At least we know where obatala started his creation. wink

Incest is not illegal in the US. It depends on the jurisdiction.

There is no middle eastern Adam in Islam.

Science is mainly through inductive processes that are not perfect.. It has several limitations as it is based solely on empiricism. It is an important tool but far from perfect. For Instance, the "hard question of consciousness" can not be tested by science because it is not based on empiricism.

Once, you go outside empirical evidence, science becomes impotent. Then we have to depend on testimony, logic etc... Empiricism is not the only way to truth.

What does it mean to be Tintingz eating a sandwich?

Professor Koch explains:

Well, let’s first forget about the real difficult aspects, like subjective feelings, because they may not have a scientific solution. the subjective state of play, of pain, of pleasure, of seeing blue, of smelling a rose--there seems to be a huge jump between the materialistic level, of explaining molecules and neurons, and the subjective level.

http://discovermagazine.com/1992/nov/whatisconsciousn149

This subjective experience can not be explained via a materialistic approach. Even when we have images of the brain etc. the Subjective feeling of what it means to be you can not be explained by the scientific method.

Professor David Chalmers says:

I argue that neuroscience alone isn't enough to explain consciousness, but I think it will be a major part of an eventual theory. We just need to add something else, some new fundamental principles, to bridge the gap between neuroscience and subjective experience.

http://www.ditext.com/chalmers/chalm.html

The problem is there is no materialistic solution to this. It does not conform with the scientific method and therefore lies outside the scope of science.

Materialist attempts have failed to comprehensively explain our subjective personal experiences.

This is why the scientific method is useful but not perfect or 100% certain.

Once something lies outside empiricism, it can not be resolved by science.

2 Likes

Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by AlBaqir(m): 6:58pm On Feb 14, 2017
tintingz:


Then the middle east Adam never existed. smiley

At least we know where obatala started his creation. wink

# Abi o. Yet when you condemn their ahadith and explanation of their shuyukh that suggest:

# Nabi Adam comes from middle east, India, etc and that black descendants were created from his left side and destined for hell fire, while white descendants were created from his right side and destined for paradise, or that before anybody can enter Paradise, you will be cleanse of your blackness and your height will returned to 1080 inches like Adam etc etc

....they cry foul and label you whatever.

2 Likes

Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by Empiree: 7:02pm On Feb 14, 2017
AlBaqir:




# The fact that he (and me anyway) do not belief in a kind of flying horse named al-buraq or whatever which is said to have carried Nabi to heavens doesn't mean we are kafir ("reject" in your word). Quran or super authentic ahadith never talked about it. So, it remains a tale by moonlight. The basics however is that Nabi went to the "heavens". How and with what? Quran silent on this. We can only imagine based on our modern knowledge of Jets, and Yoruba's Kanako, ofe (telepathy, if I get the meaning right) etc that perhaps there was a kind of means of transportation that took Nabi there.

I understand but i never said this. I said rejecting the tale has no weight on his salavation.
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by sino(m): 7:51pm On Feb 14, 2017
AlBaqir:


Obviously you don't understand his point of view which is more "balance" than your own ignoramus comment. That says a lot with your "jazak'Allahu khairan" which is laughable.
I am really sorry for exposing your lies and fake ijtihad, you can't refute my submissions accordingly so you resort to this emotional outburst...running away like a chicken has always been your way, quote my relevant posts and explain your evolution based on the versses therein.

FYI, there happens to be no difference in what I have been explaining and what tbaba1234 posted, if false, quote me, I challenge you!

1 Like

Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tintingz(m): 8:05pm On Feb 14, 2017
tbaba1234:


Incest is not illegal in the US. It depends on the jurisdiction.
Lol, did you go through the Wikipedia link I provided?

Incest is generally condemned and illegal in U.S, incest marriage is not even allowed.

There is no middle eastern Adam in Islam.
The word Adam is rooted from Hebrew language which means "red(related to his skin)".

Adam was said to have lived in Eden where it is said to be in middle east.

Adam pictures are all white middle eastern looking man.

I know you will disagree with me but Adam is a middle eastern man.


Science is mainly through inductive processes that are not perfect.. It has several limitations as it is based solely on empiricism. It is an important tool but far from perfect. For Instance, the "hard question of consciousness" can not be tested by science because it is not based on empiricism.

Once, you go outside empirical evidence, science becomes impotent. Then we have to depend on testimony, logic etc... Empiricism is not the only way to truth.

What does it mean to be Tintingz eating a sandwich?

Professor Koch explains:

Well, let’s first forget about the real difficult aspects, like subjective feelings, because they may not have a scientific solution. the subjective state of play, of pain, of pleasure, of seeing blue, of smelling a rose--there seems to be a huge jump between the materialistic level, of explaining molecules and neurons, and the subjective level.

http://discovermagazine.com/1992/nov/whatisconsciousn149

This subjective experience can not be explained via a materialistic approach. Even when we have images of the brain etc. the Subjective feeling of what it means to be you can not be explained by the scientific method.

Professor David Chalmers says:

I argue that neuroscience alone isn't enough to explain consciousness, but I think it will be a major part of an eventual theory. We just need to add something else, some new fundamental principles, to bridge the gap between neuroscience and subjective experience.

http://www.ditext.com/chalmers/chalm.html

The problem is there is no materialistic solution to this. It does not conform with the scientific method and therefore lies outside the scope of science.

Materialist attempts have failed to comprehensively explain our subjective personal experiences.

This is why the scientific method is useful but not perfect or 100% certain.

Once something lies outside empiricism, it can not be resolved by science.
I've said before that no scientists claim science to be perfect, it is still progressing.

Now back to religion why is it conflicting in practice and beliefs?
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tintingz(m): 8:24pm On Feb 14, 2017
AlBaqir:


# Abi o. Yet when you condemn their ahadith and explanation of their shuyukh that suggest:

# Nabi Adam comes from middle east, India, etc and that black descendants were created from his left side and destined for hell fire, while white descendants were created from his right side and destined for paradise, or that before anybody can enter Paradise, you will be cleanse of your blackness and your height will returned to 1080 inches like Adam etc etc

....they cry foul and label you whatever.
. Lol grin grin
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tbaba1234: 8:26pm On Feb 14, 2017
tintingz:
Lol, did you go through the Wikipedia link I provided?

Incest is generally condemned and illegal in U.S, incest marriage is not even allowed.

The word Adam is rooted from Hebrew language which means "red(related to his skin)".

Adam was said to have lived in Eden where it is said to be in middle east.

Adam pictures are all white middle eastern looking man.

I know you will disagree with me but Adam is a middle eastern man.

I do not need to go through the Wikipedia link, you provided..

According to the Lane's Lexicon, The meanings of the root letters Alif-Dal-Miim from Ancient Arabic are as follows:

seasoned (e.g. food), to mix/associate/unite/mingle together, a means of access, pattern/exemplar, object of imitation, the surface of the earth/ground

http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000072.pdf
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000073.pdf
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000074.pdf

Infact, some of the definitions seem to suggest darkness of Adam... On page 73, It says: "Of human beings, a tawny color or darkness in complexion"

Also, the so called pictures of Adam like the pictures of Jesus are fictional and can not be said to replicate them.

I've said before that no scientists claim science to be perfect, it is still progressing.

Now back to religion why is it conflicting in practice and beliefs?

You said, before... and i quote " Science itself is perfect"... It is not.

We need to first get rid of the notion of 'almighty empiricism'.

Once that is dismantled.. We can then discuss why islam?

Humans are not robots, they will always differ..

2 Likes

Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by Empiree: 8:42pm On Feb 14, 2017
tintingz:
The word Adam is rooted from Hebrew language which means "red(related to his skin)".

Adam was said to have lived in Eden where it is said to be in middle east.

Hummm, for the fact that Quran calls him by name Adam without any form of connotations rubbishes any attempt to add meaning to his name. Forget about Hebrew translation. They have their motives doesn't mean 'red skin' is the meaning of Adam. Forget about white picture. All that na wash like their white Jesus. And it doesn't say 'Middle East'. It says East which could mean East Africa as well grin Could be East London grin

Wiki definition varies Adam means 'the human', masculine, 'man' etc

It just not relevant as a person when it comes to his skin color or his country. Adam is for all countries. Just good sometimes to explore. That's i can deduce here.

Where is usermane. He might have one or two things to say here cheesy
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by AlBaqir(m): 8:42pm On Feb 14, 2017
.
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by AlBaqir(m): 8:43pm On Feb 14, 2017
sino:

I am really sorry for exposing your lies and fake ijtihad, you can't refute my submissions accordingly so you resort to this emotional outburst...running away like a chicken has always been your way, quote my relevant posts and explain your evolution based on the versses therein.

FYI, there happens to be no difference in what I have been explaining and what tbaba1234 posted, if false, quote me, I challenge you!

Well if that's your assumption, I respect it and you can add those medals of victory to your fanatical collection of medals. I don't/never debate or discuss to win or lose, such never exist in my religious world. However with my past experience with you, I learnt its impossible and unhealthy to debate ignorance - especially he who think he knows and of course, with intention of I must oppose by all means and in the process you always end up confusing yourself severally, perhaps due to too much copy-pasting and twisting when exposed.

# Yeah, tingtingz too once accused you of confusion on this thread. Try to work on that bro.

# Really its a waste of time and resources debating you. So, you might always see albaqir mute on your comments.

2 Likes 2 Shares

Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tintingz(m): 8:50pm On Feb 14, 2017
tbaba1234:


I do not need to go through the Wikipedia link, you provided..
Yeye. grin

According to the Lane's Lexicon, The meanings of the root letters Alif-Dal-Miim from Ancient Arabic are as follows:

seasoned (e.g. food), to mix/associate/unite/mingle together, a means of access, pattern/exemplar, object of imitation, the surface of the earth/ground

http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000072.pdf
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000073.pdf
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000074.pdf

Infact, some of the definitions seem to suggest darkness of Adam... On page 73, It says: "Of human beings, a tawny color or darkness in complexion"
The word Adam was rooted from Hebrew or you want to argue which language came first?

Now:

Adam ( آدم) –

The root letters for Adam are Alif, dal, and miim. If we look at Lanes Lexicon, this is what those root letters when put together mean:


Alif-Dal-Miim = seasoned (e.g. food), to mix/associate/unite/mingle together, a means of access, pattern/exemplar, object of imitation, tanned skin/hide, leather, the surface of the earth/ground, Adam, Children of Adam, human beings.

http://qurangems.com/2012/10/31/adam-name-meanings-in-arabic/

Abeg, what's Tanned skin doing there?

Tanned skin color is like red, it is like a sun burnt skin. Like Arabs, indians, mexicans, Caucasians skin color.

When I said it means red from Hebrew meaning they are NOT lying.

Also, the so called pictures of Adam like the pictures of Jesus are fictional and can not be said to replicate them.
Thats how jews and judeo-christians imagine/describe Adam to be, i ones think Adam looks middle eastern.



You said, before... and i quote " Science itself is perfect"... It is not.

We need to first get rid of the notion of 'almighty empiricism'.

Once that is dismantled.. We can then discuss why islam?

Humans are not robots, they will always differ..


What does the word science means:

- sci·ence
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.


Scientists are humans, they are not perfect just like religious people.

Can religion do without people? Hell NO!

Can science do without scientists? Hell NO!

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by tintingz(m): 9:01pm On Feb 14, 2017
Empiree:
Hummm, for the fact that Quran calls him by name Adam without any form of connotations rubbishes any attempt to add meaning to his name. Forget about Hebrew translation. They have their motives doesn't mean 'red skin' is the meaning of Adam. Forget about white picture. All that na wasj like their white Jesus. And it doesn't say 'Middle East'. It says East which could mean East Africa as well grin Could be East London grin

Wiki definition varies Adam means 'the human', masculine, 'man' etc

It just not relevant as a person when it comes to his skin color or his country. Adam is for all countries. Just good sometimes to explore. That's i can deduce here.

Where is usermane. He should might have one or two things to say here cheesy
Lol, I like the humor in this your post. smiley
Re: Islam And The Theory Of Evolution by AlBaqir(m): 9:02pm On Feb 14, 2017
tintingz:


Tanned skin color is like red, it is like a sun burnt skin. Like Arabs, indians, mexicans, Caucasians skin color.

When I said it means red from Hebrew meaning they are NOT lying.

Thats how jews and judeo-christians imagine/describe Adam to be, i ones think Adam looks middle eatern.


Don't forget bro, that's exactly how majority of Muslims too, scholars and followers alike, perceive Adam.

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