AreaFada2:

Far from sneering. That has more to do with how proud you are of your ancestry, whatever status it had. You will not consider it negative if you are comfortable with it.[b]Now what you have done is jump forward to defended what you have neither the acquired knowledge or intimate family historic involvement to do so. [/b]Simple.
If that came across negatively, apologies. This is meant to be a forum where people bring their ideas, better still, knowledge, forward.

Don't even try to justify your insolence.You don't sneer at(mention derisively)the ancestry of someone in a casual conversation where I come from.
It has nothing to do with with the status of his or her lineage.

The bold makes no sense.Do you know the position of my fam.(esp. on the distaff side) in Mobaland?
Am the last person you should be saying such a thing to.
I should be the one telling you that, 'cause am from Mobaland and you are not.

AreaFada2:

Well, I am not going conceal my ancestors because someone might feel offended.
For anyone that knows the importance of the big picture, the point I made about alliances is apt. If just defending a particular position from a particular narrow angle and in reality have no interest in history you will not see my point.
Take it or leave it. Northern Ekiti for long periods was a buffer zone against Oyo Empire. Now, no savvy empire would entrust the ruling of a buffer area in the hands of a potentially unreliable chieftain. Certainly not Benin Kingdom did that.
Read about the history of the Low Countries of Europe and the role they played in the power play between European great powers.
If you have no interest in history or comparative history, this will naively appear tangential and too far away to be relevant to what happened in Northern Ekiti at roughly same period.
While pun intended, you unwittingly got very close indeed.

What interest in history are you talking about when you keep posting rots.
You said Otun was under Benin,and Benin warriors defended Ekiti against Oyo.
I asked two questions that showed your claims are false,and you are here making assumptions like :

Now, no savvy empire would entrust the ruling of a buffer area in the hands of a potentially unreliable chieftain. Certainly not Benin Kingdom did that.

And reaching for straws like:

Read about the history of the Low Countries of Europe and the role they played in the power play between European great powers.If you have no interest in history or comparative history, this will naively appear tangential and too far away to be relevant to what happened in Northern Ekiti at roughly same period.

Yeah.Am sure I got close 'cause those of us born in the purple don't announce our nobility to the world.Only men who think they are dukes but don't count in the hierarchy(pun intended) exhibit such behaviour
If that comes across negatively,apologies.
This is meant to be a forum where people bring their ideas,better still knowledge forward.

PS:It's not my duty to find the names of the Heads of both Empires during that time,how long Ekiti Parapo lasted and other unconnected issues.Do the spadework yourself and present a sensible argument that delineates how all these bolster your wild claim.
Mine is to counter with the little I know.
I'll repeat: if we were discussing Lagos or Owo you'll have been swift in substantiating your claims with evidences.Now that we are talking Otun/Ekiti here, why have your spring of facts dried up?
It's funny.
Anyway,I'll keep an eye on this thread.It's either you ignore or back up your myths with plausible posts.
If you can't,I'll enjoin you to eternally remain silent about Otun and stop parroting myths to deceive impressionable readers.

macof:


similar tradition with Benin? there's no traditional similarly worth mentioning. you can talk of dressing and songs, maybe accents but Tradition taking it too far bro


also, Yorubas have been where Bini is right now. .we practiced that father to son ascension and it carries a lot of problems
opening ascension to all genuine princes and royal families is what makes yoruba stand out.

My guy, you know not what you say. How can you compare a crown prince that has being prepared for rule since his birth, trained in tradition and culture and given a palace of his own to rule with his own chiefs to a person who comes frrm nowhere to lobby for the throne. A typical example is the gallivanting Ooni of Ife who obviously doesn't know anything about being Ooni.

playerinc:


My guy, you know not what you say. How can you compare a crown prince that has being prepared for rule since his birth, trained in tradition and culture and given a palace of his own to rule with his own chiefs to a person who comes frrm nowhere to lobby for the throne. A typical example is the gallivanting Ooni of Ife who obviously doesn't know anything about being Ooni.

AreaFada2:


Maybe. But you will agree that in Yorubaland some thrones remain vacant for long periods due to litigation and can become subject to politics and who has the deepest pocket. Royalty is something you need to train for. Being a prince might not just be enough.

Does it not make more sense to be trained from childhood for such a very demanding job?

I guess such would avoid a scenario where a certain Oba was fighting publicly his Olori and even led to his dethronement then.

all forms of government has its merits and demerits

If traditions are followed properly lobbying will not get any of the aspirants anywhere. .. that's why the kingmakers should be held accountable for any useless element made Oba

Normally the strongest and most popular with the people is made an Oba. ..they usually know who is next in line before the death of an Oba in yorubaland. .. But all thanks to Nigeria, things are getting more and more messed up

AreaFada2:

Really? I guess you will also deny that Benin Empire defended Ekiti against Oyo empire. Well, it makes no difference now. Benin gave up the empire in 1914. But history remains same. I happen to still have relatives across both Ekiti and Ondo though.

Maybe next time you will say that Otun was a powerful empire. I expect anything from history deniers these days.

actually he's right... And defending ekiti was both ways(for their own selfish reasons) ..I'm not quite sure the towns that went under Benin but many Ekiti towns had solicited support from both Benin and Oyo
which both took advantage of


Otun was only ever taken by Ilorin... The Oyo and Benin empires used Otun boarders as limits to their empires

Ekiti was just up for grabs in those days...smh..until the fierce Kiriji war, man must fight back one day

aycorporat:

Area fada away from all this stuff, please, was Obaseki trying to usurp the throne by befriending the British or what because in the movie he was not really portrayed as a bad man, secondly was Oba ovoramwen nnogbaisi caught in the bush in hiding like the film relayed and thirdly why were his wives not with him on the boat to calabar?
thank you friend

You're right my brother. I touched quite a lot of raw nerve. Someone descended from a possibly 5th class "whatever colour cap" chief fighting hard there. You guys have LOADS of them. Kudos to him for defending his own though, however little.

I have to try to be fair here as I try always to. Although this was rumored and insinuated over the decades, I do not think Agho Obaseki did. At least, he could not have suggested it by himself, knowing that a non-Royal person had never succeeded in doing that in the past. Much less when the Empire & succession had been well-established for many centuries before then. From 1440 in fact.

That film only really covered a few months properly. Except the fake treaty that had been a few years before. In the period properly covered, Obaseki could not even have known how things would unfold. What he's accused of partly happened after Ovonramwen's exile to Calabar.

The British thought it would be a brilliant idea to install someone malleable and cosy with them. Obaseki certainly fit that Bill. But I still did not get a definitive confirmation from people who were in their early teens then. I grew up to meet some. Very old but with sharp memories.
Obaseki saw opportunities during that period of vacuum and used it for his own benefit. As he became Head of the Kingdom.

When Eweka II was crowned in 1914, (after much attempt to prevent it by Obaseki), he still wanted to be political head of the Kingdom. Benin people resisted him & the British every step of the way. Finally, the British installed him as the Iyase (Prime Minister of the Kingdom). Now this was a traditional Prime minister chosen by the Oba. As the second most powerful person after the Oba.

It is a non-hereditary position and the Oba can choose anyone accomplished. For example, any place that has come under Benin Empire or has Benin Princes ruling there can be scouted for an independent, respected & accomplished candidate. That's why a prince of Brass (Bayelsa) and two Akure/Ado-Akure people have been chosen as Iyase in the last 300 years. Okoro-Otun was one of the longest serving Iyase of Benin, and came from what became known as Ondo State. I hope you follow my arguments with people from Eastern Yorubaland here. They are quick to say I made things up. Connect things for yourself. FYI, Okoro in Benin language means prince.

So, the British choosing a prime minister was a sacrilege that had to be endured as we had become part of Nigeria colony.

The other big deal was that Obaseki sent his second son to become Ovonramwen's servant in Calabar. Why his own son, knowing the conflict of interests Benin people saw in his undue position as Head of Benin Kingdom when Oba Ovonramwen was in exile? Was his son sent to quicken Ovonramwen's exit to the great beyond and clear the way for Obaseki to take the throne?? That suspicion has remained till today.

Then, Obaseki was a childhood friend of Ovonramwen. Obaseki title was created by Ovonramwen and gave it to his friend Agho Obaseki. Obaseki's father called Ogbeide Oyoo was a mere sceptar bearer (Omu'ada) to Oba Osemwende (grandfather of Ovonramwen). His grandfather Osifo Oyoo had helped Osewmende during tussle for the throne. So he sent his son (father of Agho Obaseki) as he was probably too old to move to Benin. That grandfather of Obaseki was from Aniocha now in Delta. But today (possibly then already but unkown to Ovonramwen), Obaseki family now claim ancestry from Oba Ehengbuda, who ruled from 1578. That Obaseki was the great, great grandson of the first Obi of Nsukwa in Aniocha/Delta. And that the first Obi was a son of Oba Ehengbuda.

Ehengbuda was the last proper warrior King with many campaigns in Ondo that led to the significant Benin/Oyo treaty. Obas didn't really lead from the front in wars after him. He sustained severe burn injuries in one of those campaigns. But luckily survived but with battle scars. Partly to "cover" his scars, courtiers/palace chiefs purposely did body tattoos to mimic his burn injuries (called Iwu). His father was Oba Orhogbua (creator of Eko/Lagos, etc) who was a maritime warrior, but his son's (Ehengbuda's) battles were on land mostly. Oba Ehengbuda also often sent spies to the coastal slave holding areas to release slaves. Certainly wherever any Edo people captured as slaves were being sold and held. Since it was illegal by Royal Proclamation. Oba was already a thorn in the flesh of Oyinbo by then.

Did Obaseki use this claim of being Ehengbuda's descendant to secretly push his case with the British as eligible to be King? We will never know.
Please NOTE that this claim by Obaseki family descending from Ehengbuda is not recognized by Benin History, The Palace or Benin people.

As for invasion 97 film, it could not have portrayed the story correctly. If you read novels & watch the films later, they hardly tally.
I never really found out if the wives sailed with him on the yacht named SY Ivy in the real story. I suppose the yacht was bigger than the boat used in the film and his family could have been below deck already. But it could have been as shown in the film. Stories & pictures are abundant to show two wives, younger kids and servants were with him in Calabar.

In real life, several versions persist but the main one I know consistently is that he wanted to be available from the onset but was advised by courtiers to leave the city until things cooled down. He would have lived in one of the villages, not necessarily in the hut made in the bush as in the film. But then most villages, camps & hamlets were surrounded by thick bushes anyway. However, as things got worse, no doubt they might have compelled him to move from place to place, in case there would be any betrayal.

In the end, he was not just caught hiding but gave himself up after things got really bad. Many things royal are shrouded in secrecy. Even centuries on sometimes.

But it was different for Chief Ologbosere and colleagues, who fought a long guerrilla war with the British. They were betrayed, caught, tried & executed.
We now know that Ologbesere & others were right all along. Capt. Philip lost patience waiting for the go ahead from London to attack. He had written a year earlier to Westminster seeking permission to attack. Also clarifying that the wealth in the palace would easily defray cost of the war. And clear the way to exploit rubber for the then nascent automobile tyre industry & in-and trade monopoly.

Been there and I know how it feels to be the one-eyed man in a nation of blindmen,then you step out and realise not everyone suffers from retinal detachment.
The Internet takes the blame though -- for being a leveller.

AreaFada2:


You're right my brother. I touched quite a lot of raw nerve. Someone descended from a possibly 5th a class "whatever colour cap" chief"fighting hard there. You you you guys have LOADS of them. Kudos to him for defending his own though, however little.

I have to try to be fair here as I try always to. Although this was rumored and insinuated over the decades, I do not think Agho Obaseki did. At least, he could not have suggested it by himself, knowing that a non-Royal person had never succeeded in doing that in the past. Much less when the Empire & succession had been well-established for many centuries before then. From 1440 in in fact.
That film only really covered a few months properly. Except the fake treaty that had been a few years before. In the period properly covered, Obaseki could not even have known how things would unfold. What he's accused of partly happened after Ovonramwen's exile to Calabar.

The British thought it would be a brilliant idea to install someone malleable and cosy with them. Obaseki certainly fit that Bill. But I still did not get a definitive confirmation from people who were in the early teens then. I grew up to meet some. Very old but with sharp memories.
Obaseki saw opportunities during that period of vacuum and used it for his own benefit. As he became Head of the Kingdom. When Eweka II was crowned in 1914, (after much attempt to prevent it by Obaseki), he still wanted to be political head of the Kingdom. Benin people resisted him & the British every step of the way. Finally, the British installed him as the Iyase (Prime Minister of the Kingdom). Now this was a traditional Prime minister chosen by the Oba. As the second most powerful person after the Oba.

It is a non-hereditary position and a position that the Oba can chose anyone accomplished. For example, any place that has come under Benin Empire or has Benin Princes ruling there can be scouted for an independent, respected & accomplished candidate. That's why a prince of Brass (Bayelsa) and two Akure/Ado-Akure people have been chosen as Iyase in the last 300 years. Okoro-Otun was one of the longest serving Iyase of Benin, and came from what became known as Ondo State. I hope you follow my arguments with people from Eastern Yorubaland here. They are quick to say I made tings up. Connect things for yourself. FYI, Okoro in Benin language means prince.

So, the British choosing a prime minister was a sacrilege that had to be endured as we had become part of Nigeria colony.

The other big deal was that Obaseki sent his second son to become Ovonramwen's servant in Calabar. Why his own son, knowing the conflict of interests Benin people saw in his undue position as Head of Benin Kingdom when Oba Ovonramwen was in exile? Was his son sent to quicken Ovonramwen's exit to the great beyond and clear the way for Obaseki to take the throne?? That suspicion has remained till today.

Then, Obaseki was a childhood friend of Ovonramwen. Obaseki title was created by Ovonramwen and gave it to his friend Agho Obaseki. Obaseki's father called Ogbeide Oyoo was a mere sceptar bearer (Omu'ada) to Oba Osemwende (grandfather of Ovonramwen). His grandfather Osifo Oyoo had helped Osewmende during tussle for the throne. So he sent his son (father of Agho Obaseki) as he was probably too old to move to Benin. That grandfather of Obaseki was from Oniocha now in Delta. But today (possibly then already but unkown to Ovonramwen), Obaseki family now claim ancestry from Oba Ehengbuda, who ruled from 1578. That Obaseki was the great, great grandson of the first Obi of Nsukwa in Aniocha/Delta. And that that first Obi was a son of Oba Ehengbuda.

Ehengbuda was the last proper warrior King with many campaigns in Ondo that led to the significant Benin/Oyo treaty. Obas didn't really lead from the front in wars after him. He sustained severe burn injuries in one of those campaigns. But luckily survived but with battle scars. Partly to "cover" his scars, courtiers/palace chiefs purposely did body tattoos to mimic his burn injuries (called Iwu). His father was Oba Orhogbua (creation of Eko/Lagos, etc) who was a maritime warrior, but his (Ehengbuda's) battles were on land mostly. Oba Ehengbuda also often sent spies to the coastal slave holding areas to release slaves. Certainly wherever any Edo people captured as slaves were being sold and held. Since it was illegal by Royal Proclamation. Oba was already a thorn in the flesh of Oyinbo by then.

Did Obaseki use this claim of being Ehengbuda's descendant to secretly push his case with the British as eligible to be King? We will never know.
Please NOTE that this claim by Obaseki family descending from Ehengbuda is not recognized by Benin History, The Palace or Benin people.

As for invasion 97 film, could not have portrayed the story correctly. If you read novels & watch the films later, they hardly tally.
I never really found out if the wives sailed with him on the yatch named SY Ivy in the real story. I suppose the yatch was bigger than the boat used in the film and his family could have below deck already. But it could have been as shown in the film. Stories & pictures are abundant to show two wives, younger kids and servants were with him in Calabar.

In real life, several versions persist but the main one I know consistently is that he wanted to be available from the onset but was advised by courtiers to leave the city until things cooled down. Would have lived in one of the villages, not necessarily in the hut made in the bush as in the film. But then most villages, camps & hamlets were surrounded by thick bushes anyway. However, as things got worse, no doubt they might have compelled him to move from place to place, in case there would be any betrayal.
In the end, he was not just caught hiding but gave himself up after things got really bad. Many things royal are shrouded in secrecy. Even centuries on sometimes.

But it was different for Chief Ologbosere and colleagues, who fought a long guerrilla war with the British. They were betrayed, caught, tried & executed.
We now know that Ologbesere & others were right all along. Capt. Philip lost patience waiting for the go ahead from London to attack. He had written a year earlier to Westminster seeking permission to attack. Also clarifying that the wealth in the palace would easily defray cost of the war. And clear the way to exploit rubber for the then nascent automobile tyre industry & in land trade monopoly.

thank you so so so very very very much. I will still come up with more questions until then, I rest my case

SaffronSpice:
Been there and I know how it feels to be the one-eyed man in a nation of blindmen,then you step out and realise not everyone suffers from retinal detachment.
The Internet takes the blame though -- for being a leveller.

Retinal detachment. Nice.

If you're better at discussing ophthalmology, happy to do that with you.

Because your grasp of history is poor my friend. Stick to what you know.

You're absolutely correct. Internet is a leveller. Especially google & free megabytes.

AreaFada2:

Retinal detachment. Nice.
If you're better at discussing ophthalmology, happy to do that with you.
Because your grasp of history is poor my friend. Stick to what you know.
You're absolutely correct. Internet is a leveller. Especially google & free megabytes.

Don't troll.
Sorry,that escape route is blocked.
Expound your claims with fact.

You don enter one chance .

SaffronSpice:

Don't troll.
Sorry,that escape route is blocked.
Expound your claims with fact.

You don enter one chance .

Which one chance? I have dispatched off many trolls like you over the years. Check years back. Even with some lost because of cyber-attack on NL.

If I knew you were a troll only registered just last December, I'd never have wasted my precious time on you.

You are not going to pay for my history lessons, why should I teach you for free? Not that you even have manners or show gratitude.
i have sent lots of worse trolls with reasonable history but with massive tribal egos.

Those who ask politely, I squeeze time out to answer as detailed as I can. Queue behind those well-mannered people and keep looking over their shoulders.

AreaFada2:

Which one chance? I have dispatched off many trolls like you over the years. Check years back. Even with some lost because of cyber-attack on NL.
If I knew you were a troll only registered just last December, I'd never have wasted my precious time on you.
You are not going to pay for my history lessons, why should I teach you for free? Not that you even have manners or show gratitude.
i have sent lots of worse trolls with reasonable history but with massive tribal egos.
Those who ask politely, I squeeze time out to answer as detailed as I can. Queue behind those well-mannered people and keep looking over their shoulders.

I know your problem.
It's pride.
Instead of defending your statement logically with facts or admitting that you were wrong,you tried to bluff your way through while unabashedly sounding arrogant.SMH.
Get off your low horse.

I could have let it all slide, but awon Alale Moba would have frown at me .

Am not even trolling yet,and you already flustered,checking my profile and blubbering bombast ;
you've even increased the number of your grin simileys from 2 to 7 . This is interesting.

Back to the reason why am dignifying your posts with replies.

Expound your claims reasonably.

SaffronSpice:

I know your problem.
It's pride.
Instead of defending your statement logically with facts or admitting that you were wrong,you tried to bluff your way through while unabashedly sounding arrogant.SMH.
Get off your low horse.

I could have let it all slide, but awon Alale Moba would have frown at me .

Am not even trolling yet,and you already flustered,checking my profile and blubbering bombast ;
you've even increased the number of your grin simileys from 2 to 7 . This is interesting.

Back to the reason why am dignifying your posts with replies.

Expound your claims reasonably.

Hahahaha@awon Alale Moba.

Those dudes/dudettes up there or wherever you chose to put them have better things to worry about in the 21st century.
You think only the breathing covet fine things?

You better go pour libation with original imported gin than worry about their sensibilities.

Anyhow, by coming forward & sticking my head above the parapet, I have expected missiles thrown. And many have been thrown over the years. One would be accused of pride, showing off and whatnot. Interestingly, in real life I do not show any sign of origins. In fact a colleague nearly found out I might be related to certain people. He peeped over my shoulder and saw my email content. I dismissed it as the name being very common. Very unprofessional, but he's a fellow 9ja person so I let it slide.

I am totally anonymous here and I feel free to talk more & answer questions or join debates. I have never claimed that my stories are 100% correct. But compared with my peers, I began writing down information gleaned from the elders at a young age. Most came from people who had nothing to gain from any propaganda. Nigeria was not even so ethnically divided then.

A great many of them lived their lives as Ado-Akure people, certainly well into early adulthood and generally considered Yoruba.
For most they just relayed what they knew as the truth growing up. Much of which has changed and obliterated since 1914. For example, many minor chiefs have lobbied their way with the establishment & risen to 3rd class, 2nd class & now even 1st class monarch. Many, as it is popular in Yorubaland have suddenly plotted their direct descendance from Ododuwa. Benin is different. There is only one King. All dukes created same time as Ogiame of Warri, Eleko of Eko, Obis, Ovies and others, all remain dukes in current Benin Kingdom, which is just a tiny bit of ancient Benin Empire. While their peers of then are now first class monarchs outside current Benin Kingdom.

Any mention of any current Yoruba King descending from a king outside today's Yorubaland would be laughed at, pretty much as we see here now on NL. The case of Lagos (Benin influence) is just too profound and documented that it has been difficult to cut it out of history, not for want of trying by many though.

FYI, I take my time to write because I know there are very many silent readers out there. However long & tangential it may seem.

To be continued.

AreaFada2:

Hahahaha@awon Alale Moba.

Those dudes/dudettes up there or wherever you chose to put them have better things to worry about in the 21st century.
You think only the breathing covet fine things?

You better go pour libation with original imported gin than worry about their sensibilities.

Anyhow, by coming forward & sticking my head above the parapet, I have expected missiles thrown. And many have been thrown over the years. One would be accused of pride, showing off and whatnot. Interestingly, in real life I do not show any sign of origins. In fact a colleague nearly found out I might be related to certain people. He peeped over my shoulder and saw my email content. I dismissed it as the name being very common. Very unprofessional, but he's a fellow 9ja person so I let it slide.

I am totally anonymous here and I feel free to talk more & answer questions or join debates. I have never claimed that my stories are 100% correct. But compared with my peers, I began writing down information gleaned from the elders at a young age. Most came from people who had nothing to gain from any propaganda. Nigeria was not even so ethnically divided then.

A great many of them lived their lives as Ado-Akure people, certainly well into early adulthood and generally considered Yoruba.
For most they just relayed what they knew as the truth growing up. Much of which has changed and obliterated since 1914. For example, many minor chiefs have lobbied their way with the establishment & risen to 3rd class, 2nd class & now even 1st class monarch. Many, as it is popular in Yorubaland have suddenly plotted their direct descendance from Ododuwa. Benin is different. There is only one King. All dukes created same time as Ogiame of Warri, Eleko of Eko, Obis, Ovies and others, all remain dukes in current Benin Kingdom, which is just a tiny bit of ancient Benin Empire. While their peers of then are now first class monarchs outside current Benin Kingdom.

Any mention of any current Yoruba King descending from a king outside today's Yorubaland would be laughed at, pretty much as we see here now on NL. The case of Lagos (Benin influence) is just too profound and documented that it has been difficult to cut it out of history, not for want of trying by many though.

FYI, I take my time to write because I know there are very many silent readers out there. However long & tangential it may seem.

To be continued.

Reading...

There are certain things you mentioned in your post that I don't agree with,but I wount digress.

Am interested in what you have to say about Otun.
Bear in mind that I also have elders who are well-versed in the history of Ekitiland and Moba in particular.

As for the Alales,they get regular shots of spirits that uplift the spirits from me.
The last time was 3 months ago .

MrPresident1:


OK bros, make we dey look na. Make him nor go greet him fathers na .

The Omonoba must first visit his father's chief priest in Ile-Ife, then he must visit his father's political capital at Oyo.

but bros o.hope ure still waitin for the omonoba to visit ile-ife..coronation wnts to finish o

GbovoLee:
but bros o.hope ure still waitin for the omonoba to visit ile-ife..coronation wnts to finish o

Be patient na

Ogidigan II MUST go to Ile-Ife where Ogidigan I is buried to pay homage to Eweka, and the rest who have gone before, even Erediauwa

MrPresident1:


Be patient na

Ogidigan II MUST go to Ile-Ife where Ogidigan I is buried to pay homage to Eweka, and the rest who have gone before, even Erediauwa

well we are still waiting for the trip to ife