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Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! - Ethnic/Racial Politics - Nairaland

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Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 7:51pm On Nov 04, 2009
The khoi-san are people of southern African extract hypothesized to the be the oldest closet relatives to the earliest human population. They include the khoikhoi and the san peoples.

Their akeen features include pepper corn hair, bronze to light brown skin, eyefolds and lean builds but short in statue

Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 7:55pm On Nov 04, 2009
More Khoi. The last man is more of a San tribes man than a khoi but they are related groups.

Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 8:12pm On Nov 04, 2009
More Khoi

Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by beneli(m): 1:08pm On Nov 09, 2009
There's something almost Chinese about them! One wonders if they're the forefathers of those that supposedly migrated to present day China.
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 2:16pm On Nov 09, 2009
beneli:

There's something almost Chinese about them! One wonders if they're the forefathers of those that supposedly migrated to present day China.



There is a possibility but not definite. The similarities btw both peoples does not denote a correlation. its like saying some ethiopians look like south asians so they may be the same people. Not necessarily true.

The Khoisan were once aspoused to be under an umbrella of "capoid" races of the south vs Congoid races of central Africa as a way of distinguishing the two African group but this stance has been abandoned by most anthropologists as there is an obvious racial overtone in the groupings.

Unbeknownst to many. Africans are the most diverse of all living human populations and contain many looks as what many may coin as negroid, caucasoid or mongoloid features without any necessary ad mixture of peoples from outside the continent.
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by beneli(m): 2:44pm On Nov 09, 2009
morpheus24:

There is a possibility but not definite. They are full blooded Africans and their ancestors may have looked much harsher than what they appear to be today.

They were once aspoused to be under an umbrella of "capoid" peoples vs Congoid peoples as a way of seperating the huge Diversity of Africans but this stance has been abandoned by most anthropologists as there is an obvious racial overtone in the groupings.

Unbeknownst to many. Africans are the most diverse of all living human populations and contain many looks as what many may coin as negroid, caucasoid or mongoloid features without any necessary ad mixture of peoples from outside the continent.

This is very interesting. The other day, on a programme about mixed race people and the 'benefits' of gene heterogenity, which is supposed to be one of the advantages of being mixed race, they mentioned something like that and talked about how the genes of Africans are actually almost as heterogenous as that of one of the subjects who happened to be of Nigerian-'English' heritage. Those of the other subjects, two 'English'men, and an Indian were less so. They suggested that a fifth subject, a mix of Indian-'English' heritage would also be less heterogenous than the Nigerian-English person.

What's your take on this degree of gene heterogenity among Africans as compared to others?  The suggestions, obviously is that biologically, we are different. I know that some racist 'scientists' hint, albeit subtlely, that an explanation is that we are like the 'stem' pool for other 'races'-just like stem cells in biology have the capability of growing into different organs-and are supposedly therefore less 'evolved'! Certainly not flattering, i say!
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 3:00pm On Nov 09, 2009
beneli:

This is very interesting. The other day, on a programme about mixed race people and the 'benefits' of gene heterogenity, which is supposed to be one of the advantages of being mixed race, they mentioned something like that and talked about how the genes of Africans are actually almost as heterogenous as that of one of the subjects who happened to be of Nigerian-'English' heritage. Those of the other subjects, two 'English'men, and an Indian were less so. They suggested that a fifth subject, a mix of Indian-'English' heritage would also be less heterogenous than the Nigerian-English person.

What's your take on this degree of gene heterogenity among Africans as compared to others?  The suggestions, obviously is that biologically, we are different. I know that some racist 'scientists' hint, albeit subtlely, that an explanation is that we are like the 'stem' pool for other 'races'-just like stem cells in biology have the capability of growing into different organs-and are supposedly therefore less 'evolved'! Certainly not flattering, i say!


The scientists are actually correct in saying it is most likely that we are the the stem pool of other Human populations. Its called the greatest cluster of diversity hypothesis, which means the more diverse a given population is genetically the greater the possibility that they were the first to arise and give better to other populations.

Genetically speaking two Africans can be very different compared to two english men as the example you stated says. So I am in agreement because the evidence suggests such.

This is the reason why I do not adhere to certain depictions of Africans as a certain type also known as the "true negro" theory. If our ancestors were the first then it means we carry a higher variety of genes that can be expressed in different phenotypical variations as is already evident within African in comparison to other peoples.
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by beneli(m): 3:25pm On Nov 09, 2009
Thanks for that. I am not sure whether this whole 'greater cluster hypothesis' thing is actually a good thing for the African. In terms of racial politics, that is. The thought of it is certainly not making me feel exhilirated!

What would be your arguement (or defence) against those who would say that the evidence points towards the African being less evolved biologically and socially than their less heterogenous cousins? I am especially sceptical about the fact that this 'evidence' shows the European to be the least homogenous, especially given the political nature of the science of race, its antecedents and some of the inferences (yes, i am mindful of the fact that you don't like inferences!) one can easily make from these findings. Wasn't it something like this, but portrayed differently, that laid the foundation for eugenics?
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 8:29pm On Nov 09, 2009
beneli:

Thanks for that. I am not sure whether this whole 'greater cluster hypothesis' thing is actually a good thing for the African. In terms of racial politics, that is. The thought of it is certainly not making me feel exhilirated!

What would be your arguement (or defence) against those who would say that the evidence points towards the African being less evolved biologically and socially than their less heterogenous cousins? I am especially sceptical about the fact that this 'evidence' shows the European to be the least homogenous, especially given the political nature of the science of race, its antecedents and some of the inferences (yes, i am mindful of the fact that you don't like inferences!) one can easily make from these findings. Wasn't it something like this, but portrayed differently, that laid the foundation for eugenics?


The hypothesis actually does good in dispelling the nonsense about Africans being different from other Humans and being heterogenous genetically is actually a plus for Africans. Genes change or "mutate'. the more the variety or incidence of diversification of genes in Africa it translates to ancestors of Africans having lived longer than the emergence of other Human populations(notice I do not use the term "race" as this is arbituary for me when defining human beings.)

It only proves that it was a subset of early Africans who migrated out of Africa to populate the rest of the world because the gene makeup for others outside of the continent are much younger.

To your second question. Africans are not less involved biologically. We together with other groups are biologically 99.95% the same in gene sequence. We are no more less "evovled" than other groups contrary to past studies.

The advent of Eugenics was based on Bias and pseudo scientific inferences and today becaue of The human genome project we now understand our place in the "evolution" of Human beings.

Do not mistake Phenotypical adaptations(which pseudo science and eugenics were heavily based on) which account for very small changes in our gene makeup to genotypically changes which amount for other functions and have less to to with our outwardly appearance.
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by MandingoII(m): 9:59pm On Nov 09, 2009
Yup!

That dragqueen South African runner have khoisan blood grin
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 10:16pm On Nov 09, 2009
MandingoII:

Yup!

That dragqueen South African runner have khoisan blood grin

She'd have to do a DNA test to confirm that but I would hypothesis Zulu's as the most least likely to have connections to the Khoisan compared to colored groups on the coast of AFrican or other Coastal tribes such as the Xhosa!
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by beneli(m): 10:45am On Nov 10, 2009
morpheus24:

The hypothesis actually does good in dispelling the nonsense about Africans being different from other Humans and being heterogenous genetically is actually a plus for Africans. Genes change or "mutate'. the more the variety or incidence of diversification of genes in Africa it translates to ancestors of Africans having lived longer than the emergence of other Human populations(notice I do not use the term "race" as this is arbituary for me when defining human beings.)

It only proves that it was a subset of early Africans who migrated out of Africa to populate the rest of the world because the gene makeup for others outside of the continent are much younger.

To your second question. Africans are not less involved biologically. We together with other groups are biologically 99.95% the same in gene sequence. We are no more less "evovled" than other groups contrary to past studies.

The advent of Eugenics was based on Bias and pseudo scientific inferences and today becaue of The human genome project we now understand our place in the "evolution" of Human beings.

Do not mistake Phenotypical adaptations(which pseudo science and eugenics were heavily based on) which account for very small changes in our gene makeup to genotypically changes which amount for other functions and have less to to with our outwardly appearance.

Thanks!
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by Bishopking: 11:34am On Nov 10, 2009
contrary to the believe (that may be inferred) that Africans are the least evolved, in fact, the opposite is more 'reasonable'

If a handful of people left Eastern Africa many thousands years ago, as now accepted theoretically, then those that stayed behind (even at that time may be diverse genetically) must have evolved more significantly since the 'momentum' for human evolution is gigantic in africa. This might explain the reason for homogeneity being high in other places outside of africa. Greater 'evolution' should encourage diversity not homogenity! There is wide physical and genetic evidence of this in africa. A stem cell seems homogeneous but every part of the body can be gotten from it!

Industrial revolution has made the european people appear more intelligent (and springing of 'greater evolution' belief as a result). This is a superficial situation created because of necessity. Their intelligence in reality is not any higher. It is just like saying that Nigerian are more intelligent than the rest of west africans. This is not the case, our environment has made it necessary that we compete for every opportunity. Things are no longer the way it used to be. We therefore need to acquire new skills or sharpen old ones.

Among human population, greater evolution should be gotten on the continent of africa. If the people that left africa years ago were actually these people of SA, then there genes must be relatively different. The extent in the difference depends on their food, change in environmental forces, and other things
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 2:16pm On Nov 10, 2009
Bishopking:

contrary to the believe (that may be inferred) that Africans are the least evolved, in fact, the opposite is more 'reasonable'

If a handful of people left Eastern Africa many thousands years ago, as now accepted theoretically, then those that stayed behind (even at that time may be diverse genetically) must have evolved more significantly since the 'momentum' for human evolution is gigantic in africa. This might explain the reason for homogeneity being high in other places outside of africa. Greater 'evolution' should encourage diversity not homogenity! There is wide physical and genetic evidence of this in africa. A stem cell seems homogeneous but every part of the body can be gotten from it!

Industrial revolution has made the european people appear more intelligent (and springing of 'greater evolution' belief as a result). This is a superficial situation created because of necessity. Their intelligence in reality is not any higher. It is just like saying that Nigerian are more intelligent than the rest of west africans. This is not the case, our environment has made it necessary that we compete for every opportunity. Things are no longer the way it used to be. We therefore need to acquire new skills or sharpen old ones.

Among human population, greater evolution should be gotten on the continent of africa. If the people that left africa years ago were actually these people of SA, then there genes must be relatively different. The extent in the difference depends on their food, change in environmental forces, and other things

Concur!!!
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by paddy_lo(m): 4:46am On Nov 18, 2009
yea they are the forebearers of all humans,saw a documentary on national geographic that traced all humans alive at one point in the beginning to just a handful of khoisan bushmen ppl numbering abt 2000 or less,these ppl managed to survive and populate the earth u can see from their eyes and skin that can turn dark or light and high cheekbones how they have all the races in the world present in them
one more thing black is beautiful and original
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 6:12pm On Feb 10, 2010
I would like to clarify that some of the pics on this forum of Khoisan may be deceptive in the sense that I just discovered that several groups of San people ie the Khomani who are a bundle of reminants of indigenous san people may have a certain percentage of European blood in them.


Though there is without doubt that the "light"skinned color of the Khoisan were very present in the population post any contact with Europeans.

Someof the people in pics of Khoisan on this thread can be spotted in the below attached documentary.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn8KJgp13Xc&feature=PlayList&p=66B66A2BBA7FAAA3&index=2
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by RSA(m): 11:35am On Feb 11, 2010
First let me correct you Mr Mo, there is no tribe called KHOISAN,infact most of this people will feel disrespected by this kind of your ignorance.Khois are a tribe that is different from the Sans,they all speak different languages and have different culture and tradition.

Imagine me calling you IGBOHAUSA? Just because people look similiar it does not mean they're the same.European called them Khoisan out of disrespect.And as an African I am not ignorant enough to think this is not an issue.J

ust like you guys here,Igbo,Yoruba,Hausa,Fulane,Ijaw and other tribe the Sans and the Khois also have their differences.They also think the other tribe has more uglier woman than their or they have prettier woman than the other one,Or are more intelligent than the other one.

Just like all Africans most have moved with time,they're doctors,businessman and are in other professions in our society.The one you see on national geographic channel are there for the money,they're actors and are paid to show the world their old way and they're experts in their field.
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 3:20pm On Feb 11, 2010
RSA:

First let me correct you Mr Mo, there is no tribe called KHOISAN,infact most of this people will feel disrespected by this kind of your ignorance.Khois are a tribe that is different from the Sans,they all speak different languages and have different culture and tradition.

You don't need to correct me bro. I already knew the differences btw the khoi and the san peoples. I never called them a TRIBE. The word KHOISAN is used in context to describe the two groups of people with very similar characteristics in terms of language, culture, history and genetics. The khoi and the San fall into this catergory. The undelying differencies would be in terms of cultural practices.The san Bushmen have always been more of hunter-gatherers while the khoi still retained much of their pastoral and agricultural practices.

RSA:

Imagine me calling you IGBOHAUSA? Just because people look similiar it does not mean they're the same.European called them Khoisan out of disrespect.And as an African I am not ignorant enough to think this is not an issue.J

The differnecies in the two groups have been duely noted in articles.

As regards South South peoples of Nigeria. The Igbohausa comaprison is off as the two groups are quite different from each other in appearance, culture and DNA enough for you to distinguish unlike the Khoi and san. If you said Igboijaw then that would be a better comparison cause the two live in close proximity to one another and share similar historical and genetic similarities.


RSA:

Just like all Africans most have moved with time,they're doctors,businessman and are in other professions in our society.The one you see on national geographic channel are there for the money,they're actors and are paid to show the world their old way and they're experts in their field.

I don't know why you mention this. I am fully aware that not every Khoi and san roam the kalahari today. Infact if you look at the attached youtube video. Those groups are communties of Khomanis who have settled with rights to land.

If you look even closer you would see the reminants of their ancestors in their descendants(who have mixed with european and indigenous bantu tribes i.e sotho, xhosa groups). You only need to look for the epicanthic eyefolds, copper brown skin and tightly coiled pepper cornhair texture amongst your people to understand the dispersal.
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by sage(m): 7:20am On Feb 18, 2010
@morpheus

Take a look at this article of Wednesday Feb 17, 2010. I think you are going to find it interesting

http://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/sequencing-study-highlights-genetic-diversity-southern-africa

the highlights in the article include

"And from their population level analysis, the researchers detected as many or more genetic differences between the Khoisan and West African populations than between West African and European populations."



"On average, there are more genetic differences between any two Bushmen in our study than between a European and an Asian,"
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by sage(m): 7:26am On Feb 18, 2010
On a regular day a person would not guess that the genetic difference between Europeans and West African groups would be smaller than between West Africans and the Khosians shocked shocked shocked shocked

So much for the idea of "race" grin cheesy
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 2:57pm On Feb 18, 2010
sage:

On a regular day a person would not guess that the genetic difference between Europeans and West African groups would be smaller than between West Africans and the Khosians shocked shocked shocked shocked

So much for the idea of "race" grin cheesy
@Sage

Thanks for the article

This simply proves the theory that Africa is the birth place of Humans and every other population outside of it is an extension of the original inhabitants. It is not strange to me that the Khoisan would have more genetic variations within their populations that would West Africans since the hypothesis is that they are a much older group of Africans. Therefore there would be less genetic variation between West Africans and Europeans that there would between Two individuals in a Khoisan group.

As has been upheld before race is a social construct to identify phenotypical characteristics of people and not necessarily their genetic makeup.

Peace.
Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 10:07pm On Feb 22, 2010
More San People: The oldest African types

Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by KenyanLady(f): 10:45pm On Feb 22, 2010
They look like South East Asian,



Re: Picture Thread# 1: Khoisan People! by morpheus24: 11:18pm On Feb 22, 2010
KenyanLady:

They look like South East Asian,



I would suppose so, since they do have epicanthal eyefolds and share similar cranio facial measurements as many asian populations

This is reason our argument in the past regarding Afro caucasian categories of Africans is an unjust representation of African Phenotype. If these Africans can exihibit features similar to other peoples of the world without any necessary admixture with those groups . There is no need to assume that other African groups who possess these characteristics got such features from peopel outside of Africa.

Though I will point that proximity does make admixture more possible in East Africans and any general population however DNA evidence has discarded that possibiliy in east African populations as a whole.

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