The Epicurean Paradox. - Religion - Nairaland
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The Epicurean Paradox(the Problem Of Evil). / To Christians: The Christian Paradox / Easter Paradox (2) (3) (4)
| The Epicurean Paradox. by oaroloye(m): 9:22am On Nov 24, 2016 |
SHALOM! You may have heard of this blasphemous saying attributed to the Ancient Philosopher, EPICURUS. IS GOD WILLING TO PREVENT EVIL, The last couple of lines seem to have been spuriously added by Atheists, as no one seems to be able to verify their existence before 1992. https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Epicurus BE THAT AS IT MAY, I FEEL REALLY BAD FOR THE MILLIONS OF USELESS, WORTHLESS CHRISTIAN LAYMEN AND CLERGY, WHO COULD NOT, AND CANNOT ANSWER THESE FOOLISH QUESTIONS. What is the POINT of their BEING "Christians," if they cannot deliver the answers YAHSHUA would have delivered, were he present? Clearly, such useless Christians cannot be Saved, because WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING are the First Fruits of REPENTANCE. . JOB 28:28. 28. "And unto Man He Said, 'BEHOLD, THE FEAR OF THE LORD, THAT IS WISDOM; AND TO DEPART FROM EVIL, IS UNDERSTANDING.' " Therefore YAHSHUA was able to assure his Disciples, who had little or no experience in public speaking- especially when ON TRIAL FOR THEIR LIVES- that they'd be FINE. . MATTHEW 10:11-20.. 11. "And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 12. "And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13. "And if the house be worthy, let your Peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14. "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your Words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15. "Verily I say unto you, 'It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in The Day of Judgment, than for that city.' 16. "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17. "But Beware of Men: for they will deliver you up to the Councils, and they will scourge you in their Synagogues; 18. "And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a Testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19. "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20. "For it is not ye that speak, but The Spirit of your Father Which speaketh in you." THOSE CHRISTIANS WHO DO NOT HAVE GOD, NOR "JESUS," ARE COMMANDED NOT TO ENGAGE UNBELIEVERS WHO POSSESS KNOWLEDGE. The REAL reason being that they would immediately find out how little they know. . 1th PETER 3:15-16. 15. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of The Hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16. Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of Evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your Good Conversation in Christ.
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| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by Makaveli08: 10:26am On Nov 24, 2016 |
The logical problem of evil is considered by most philosophers today to have been refuted by Alvin Plantinga's freewill defense. |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by oaroloye(m): 12:32pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
Makaveli08: YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO TELL US WHO "ALVIN (& THE CHIPMUNKS?) PLANTINGA" IS, AN HOW HE IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE "REFUTED" "THE" "PROBLEM OF EViL," WHATEVER THAT PHRASE IS SUPPOSED TO MEAN. Otherwise you are just talking nonsense. "Most Philosophers" of which genre? Religious- as in Christian, Islamic, Baha'i, Buddhist, Taoist, Shamanistic, or others? Atheistic- as in Darwinist, Marxist, Leninist, Staliniist, Twist, or some other "Ist" I might not be aware of. I don't think you really know what you are talking about, and are just here to waste people's time. |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by Makaveli08: 12:37pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
oaroloye: If you don't know who is Alvin Plantinga and never heard his freewill defense, there's no need to even have a discussion with you about the logical problem of evil. |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by LiberaDeus: 12:51pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
The logical problem of evil has not been solved. Stop citing an Alvin Platinga, please show us how the problem of evil has been solved. No philosopher or reputable scientist has ever refuted the logical problem of evil. The best Christians can say when their arguments are totally cornered is " we can't question god but we shall understand better when we die and go to heaven". @OP, all the scriptures you posted didn't in any way address 10percent of epicurus positions on evil. Please I am waiting for a reasonable argument for you. 1 Like |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by wiegraf: 5:41pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
Makaveli08: Why lie so shamelessly? |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by oaroloye(m): 8:18pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
Makaveli08: Clearly, you either just made him up, or else he is an intellect so far above your level, that you have no idea what he was really talking about. You cannot even DEFINE your so-called "THE" LOGICAL PROBLEM OF EVIL," as if there were only one. You are employing the Oyinbo Card Game Strategy called "BLUFFING," pretending to possess what in fact you do not. |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by oaroloye(m): 8:42pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
SHALOM! LiberaDeus: "The Logical Problem of Evil" has not been DEFINED. WHAT is "THE" Logical Problem of Evil? Is there only ONE? Stop citing an Alvin Platinga, please show us how the problem of evil has been solved. No philosopher or reputable scientist has ever refuted the logical problem of evil. I was really expecting him to tell us who this person was or is- I suspect that there is no such person, oe else he in no way did what he is attributing to him.. The best Christians can say when their arguments are totally cornered is " we can't question god but we shall understand better when we die and go to heaven". I have never used such an argument. I believe that, if a Christian cannot answer questions NOW, then they are NOT QUALIFIED TO GO TO HEAVEN. @OP, all the scriptures you posted didn't in any way address 10percent of epicurus positions on evil. Well, that is not a reasonable statement. Why should the Scriptures I quoted have anything to do with EPICURUS? I posted those Scriptures FOR THE SHAME OF CHRISTIAN FOOLS, who cannot answer these simple questions, but rather amble by, like the Priest and the Levite who ignored the Robbery Victim whom the GOOD SAMARITAN did not. I SAID that REAL CHRISTIANS WOULD KNOW THE ANSWER. Ergo, there are no REAL Christians around. Please I am waiting for a reasonable argument for you. I was rushed when I posted the Original Post- I had like 1% of Battery on my Phone. I got rid of the AIRTEL SIM on my BlackBerry, and bought a GLO Line- which is working fine, this first day. But I am SURE that I mentioned that PREVENTING EVIL ON EARTH IS NOT GOD'S JOB: IT IS OUR JOB. THAT is what He CREATED us for. (OOPS!) I DIDN'T MENTION IT- MY BAD! . GENESIS 1:26-28. 26. And God Said, "Let us make Man in Our Image, after Our Likeness, and let them have Dominion over the Fish of the Sea, and over the Fowl of the Air, and over the Cattle, and over all the Earth, and over every Creeping Thing that creepeth upon the Earth." 27. So God created Man in His Own Image, in the Image of God created He him; male and female created He them. 28. And God Blessed them, and God Said unto them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the Earth, and subdue It: and have Dominion over the Fish of the Sea, and over the Fowl of the Air, and over every Living Thing that moveth upon the Earth." IT IS OUR JOB TO CONTROL ALL THESE THINGS- INCLUDING OURSELVES. If we cannot do our ONE JOB, GOD does not WANT us, nor does He CARE about us, but HE WANTS to be RID of us. . LUKE 7:19-23. 19. And John calling unto him two of hhis Disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, "Art thou he that should come? Or look we for Another?" 20. When the men were come unto him, they said, "John Baptist hath sent unto thee, saying, 'Art thou he that should come? Or look we for Another?' " 21. And in that same hour, he cured many of their Infirmities and Plagues, and of Evil Spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. 22. Then Jesus answering said unto them, "Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor The Gospel is preached. 23. "And Blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." . LUKE 10:17-24. 17. And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, "Lord, even the Devils are subject unto us through thy Name." 18. And he said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven. 19. "Behold, I give unto you Power to tread on Serpents and Scorpions, and over all the Power of the Enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20. "Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in Heaven." 21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, 'I thank Thee, O Father, LORD of Heaven and Earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. 22. "All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but The Father; and Who The Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him." 23. And he turned him unto his Disciples, and said privately, "Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: 24. "For I tell you, 'That many Prophets and Kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.' " . JOHN 14:12. 12. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, 'HE THAT BELIEVETH ON ME THE WORKS THAT I DO SHALL HE DO ALSO;' and Greater (Works) than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." ALL THE THINGS YAHSHUA DID- WHAT DID YOU THINK HE WAS DOING THEM FOR? Just showing off? For FUN? He was showing what OUR JOB is, and HOW to DO it! . ACTS 10:38. 38. "How God Anointed Jesus of Nazareth with The Holy Ghost and with Power; who went about Doing Good, and Healing all those that were oppressed of The Devil: for God was with him." . 1st JOHN 3:4-10. 4. Whosoever committeth Sin transgresseth also The Law: for Sin is the transgression of The Law. 5. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our Sins; and in him is no Sin. 6. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little Children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth Righteousness is Righteous, even as he is Righteous. 8. He that committeth Sin is of the Devil; for the Devil Sinneth from the Beginning. For this Purpose the Son of God was manifested, "THAT HE MIGHT DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL." 9. Whosoever is Born of God doth not commit Sin; for His Seed remaineth in him: and he cannot Sin, because he is Born of God. 10 In this The Children of God are manifest, and The Children of the Devil: whosoever doeth not Righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his Brother. DOES ANYONE HERE WANT TO SAY THAT I HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE ISSUES OF EPICURUS? |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by wiegraf: 9:29pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
Plantinga is an oga of apologetics who's solution to the problem seems to be similar to where you're headed Op, so you should be on his side... |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by Makaveli08: 10:00pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
wiegraf: Nope I'm telling the truth : "Plantinga's free will defense has been generally accepted as a successful response to the claim that God's existence and the existence of evil are logically inconsistent." (What Philosophers Know: Case Studies in Recent Analytic Philosophy by Gary Gutting, pg 110) "Although Plantinga’s defence failed to persuade critics like Mackie and Flew,it is now widely considered to be a strong and effective response to the logical problem of evil." (The God Beyond Belief: In Defence of William Rowe's Evidential Argument from Evil by Nick Trakakis, pg 34) "Most philosophers have agreed that the free will defense has defeated the logical problem of evil. [...] Because of [Plantinga's argument], it is now widely accepted that the logical problem of evil has been sufficiently rebutted." (Introducing Philosophy of Religion by Chad Meister, pg 131) "Though there never has been and likely never will be a resolution of the so-called "problem of evil" to which all parties agree, there has been a kind of meeting of the minds in the last half century or so that has served to refocus the debate. This meeting of the minds was facilitated in 1974 by Alvin Plantinga's publication of a refutation of the so-called "logical argument from evil" (LAE) (Plantinga 1974a, 164-196; 1974b, 29-59; see Sennett 1998, 22-49). Plantinga's argument-a version of the venerable free will defense-was impressive enough that many prominent philosophers declared LAE dead once and for all. Even William Rowe, considered the dean of advocates of the problem of evil, called Plantinga's offering "a fairly compelling argument for the view that the existence of evil is logically consistent with the existence of the theistic God" (1979, 335)." ( Philosophical Approaches to the Devil By Benjamin W. McCraw) "It used to be widely held by philosophers that God and evil are incompatible. Not any longer. Alvin Plantinga's Free Will Defense is largely responsible for this shift."Howard-Snyder, Daniel; John O’Leary-Hawthorne (1999). "Transworld Sanctity and Plantinga's Free Will Defense" “Although the logical problem of evil marks an important phase in the literature on evil, discussion of it markedly diminished during the 1980s. It is fairly widely agreed by theists and nontheists alike that Alvin Plantinga, Keith Yandell, and other theistic philosophers have cast serious doubt on the viability of all formulations of the logical problem. Critics who still think that evil presents a problem for theistic belief have shifted focus away from the logical version of the problem and have sought to construct a viable evidential version.” (Reason & Religious Belief: An Introduction to Philosophy of Religion, p. 121) |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by oaroloye(m): 1:00pm On Nov 25, 2016 |
SHALOM! wiegraf: Sorry, but you just do not understand how the Oyinbo System works. At the End of the Day, he is just another TENTACLE in the Oyinbo OCTOPUS OF EVIL! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga He is like the "DEFENSE LAWYER" the Oyinbos give you, when they ARREST you for doing NOTHING. Doctor Sebi's Arrest. THEY ARE PART OF THE SAME SYSTEM OF OPPRESSION, WHOSE OVERALL GOAL IS TO KEEP US UNDER CONTROL UNTIL WE DIE. Why be impressed because of the ONE PART of the MACHINE that is GOING AWAY from you- when there are NINETY-NINE parts that are heading for your JUGULAR? Don't you know how HUNTING TRAPS work? HOW MANY ATHEISTS HAS HE CONVERTED? By their fruits you know them. The Oyinbos invent all these Religions and Philosophies that mean nothing but to them, and do not stop any of their other Evils they jurist talk you to death while they are killing you. |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by wiegraf: 11:15pm On Nov 25, 2016 |
Makaveli08: OK. You're rice and I see where you're coming from, so I apologise for claiming you lied. That said, I would like to point out hIs accepted solution does not resolved all versions of the problem of evil, just the xtian storybook version of it, which you call the logical problem of evil. And even at that, he's just pointed out that there's no necessary contradiction there provided you interpret certain terms in a particular manner. It still remains problematic as for instance he also has to make assumptions to make it work, just as critics make assumptions to make their case, among other things.. |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by wiegraf: 11:17pm On Nov 25, 2016 |
oaroloye: Which philosophies or religions do you subscribe to oga? |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by Makaveli08: 3:05am On Nov 26, 2016 |
wiegraf: There's no such thing as a "xtian storybook version" of the problem of evil. Plantinga's defense was a direct response to philosopher J.L Mackie formulation of the logical problem of evil. wiegraf: How can it still be problematic for the theist if the critic who presents the logical problem of evil in the first place, has to make assumptions in order to make their case? |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by raphieMontella: 5:47am On Nov 26, 2016 |
Makaveli08:so some christian apologetic books are the bases of your fabled general acceptance? For real? and the defense is bullshvt..if what i read on wiki is it..its pure bullshvt.. I found many problems wrong with it Well unless on the concept of a deistic God...but for a theistic God...the problem of evil still stands.. An excerpt from the page... i think in the christian version..jesus's second coming and heaven....refutes plantinga's claim... Many others... Epicurus's argument..still stands 1 Like |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by Makaveli08: 9:35am On Nov 26, 2016 |
raphieMontella: Give a source(s) written by an actual philosopher of religion who claims otherwise (that Plantinga's FWD isn't regarded by most philosophers to be successful). Don't just assert it. And assuming you consider Wikipedia reliable and not an apologetic site, Wikipedia also has the following to say regarding Plantinga's defense : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga's_free_will_defense "Though the success of Plantinga's defense has near consensus support among academic philosophers and theologians, a few contemporary atheologians have presented arguments claiming to have found the additional premises needed to create an explicitly contradictor theistic set by adding to the propositions 1-4. None of these subsequent arguments has gained wider academic philosophical support." Now why would Wikipedia say say this? raphieMontella: What is wrong with Plantinga defense with regards only to Epicurus argument, why does it fail according to you to show that Epicurus doesn't succeed ? |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by oaroloye(m): 12:02pm On Nov 27, 2016 |
SHALOM! wiegraf: FUNDAMENTALLY, I AM A CHRISTIAN. YAHSHUA said that anyone not opposing HIM is our FRIEND. Therefore, I also subscribe to certain Truths from Lafayette Ronald Hubbard's SCIENTOLOGY, Carlos Castaneda's NAGUALISM, and James Redfield's CELESTINE PROPHECY. Which views I have endeavored to set forth on my Blog Pages accessible HERE. |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by wiegraf: 9:10pm On Nov 28, 2016 |
Makaveli08: Because the theist is making assumptions too Because the assumptions the critic make are very reasonable. Enough to make the theistic claim impossible without a good deal of faith, and nonsensical in most contexts. This is how we get to the evidential problem of evil Would you like to explore your claims? |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by wiegraf: 9:13pm On Nov 28, 2016 |
oaroloye: Many would think you crazy ser, but I say forge your own path. I'll read up on those topics, thanks |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by oaroloye(m): 8:09am On Nov 29, 2016 |
SHALOM! wiegraf: Why would any honest person call me "crazy?" I have gone to great lengths to weed out any sort of irrationality in my Teachings. My Doctrine is based on Techniques that have been proven to yield results. Why should I "forge my own path," and run the risk of FAILURE? I would never lead people into something that might kill them, because of something I didn't know, about what I was telling them. |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by foladara777(m): 8:20am On Nov 29, 2016 |
I don't think this argument about God not being able to create good without automatically creating evil flies... I mean, if he is d almighty then ask things should be possible for him and if he's at the same time benevolent then he should be able to create all the good he wants and exclude evil totally |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by oaroloye(m): 11:17am On Nov 29, 2016 |
SHALOM! foladara777: THE FIRST THING YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OYINBOS ARGUING FOR GOD, AND THE OYINBOS ARGUING AGAINST GOD: THEY ARE ALL PARTS OF THE SAME OYINBO FRAUD MACHINE. This Universe is NOT HEAVEN. Therefore, it is possible to defy The Will of God, here. God's ambient Power supporting local laws is not equally powerful in every Universe. It is weaker, the further one is removed from The Throne of God. In 1st Heaven, It is powerful enoght to support the awareness of Good and Evil. In Earth Universe, It is not. If you want the Powers of God in Heaven to manifest on Earth, you have to operate THE LAWS OF THAT HEAVEN HERE ON EARTH- thus creating a SACRED SPACE. OYINBOS THINK THST, JUST BECAUSE THEIR EVIL PLANS SUCCEED, GOD MUST WANT THEM TO DO THISE THINGS. |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by TV01(m): 1:19pm On Nov 29, 2016 |
oaroloye:May I ask a question please; what exactly are these results? Cheers TV |
| Re: The Epicurean Paradox. by oaroloye(m): 8:33pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
TV01: HEALING. KNOWLEDGE OF HIGHER TRUTH. POWER. What others promise, but fail to deliver- but manage to convince their followers that saying that they received what they sought is even better than getting what they actually asked for. |
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